i logically know and understand what is consciousness but i can't describe it

[Psychophilly]

it's fundamentally mathematics, we have unique inputs be streaming from the start of our life till end. consciousness is a function of these inputs. and i logically know that free will is actually random in a quantum level.
shame, i could be famous if i could describe it. i probably can using graphics and animation but too lazy for that.

 

[Psychophilly]

stop thinking about things you cannot process, you'd be stuck in loops.
our brain is not designed by gods, it's not perfect and it's evolving.

 

[Splinter901]

Isn't consciousness just like this system that only receives input but outputs nothing? unless free will is actually real and it comes from there in which case it would be outputting it's will.

 

[Psychophilly]

Isn't consciousness just like this system that only receives input but outputs nothing? unless free will is actually real and it comes from there in which case it would be outputting it's will.

what is this free will? is your free will different than mine? hypothetically, if our free wills swapped at birth. would you be a different person than me?

 

[Deleted member 23100]

no. it's impossible to know

 

[Deleted member 23399]

Only way to know is to still the mind of all mental oscillations and fermentations. All that remains is the truth.

 

[Psychophilly]

no. it's impossible to know

muh impossible, muh brain is complicated
it's all fuzz

 

[Deleted member 23100]

muh impossible, muh brain is complicated
it's all fuzz

no. it's the inherent (?) at existential level itself

 

[Psychophilly]

no. it's the inherent (?) at existential level itself

the term existence is like a religion, it's been misused and misunderstood. for something to exist, there should be non-exist state but there isn't.
there is no proof of not existing, people decided to just call the things that don't exist "thoughts" stupidly enough.

assuming you don't see the point, you see the concept of existence is subjective.

 

[Deleted member 23100]

the term existence is like a religion, it's been misused and misunderstood. for something to exist, there should be non-exist state but there isn't.
there is no proof of not existing, people decided to just call the things that don't exist "thoughts" stupidly enough,

no, I'm talking about experience

 

[Splinter901]

what is this free will? is your free will different than mine? hypothetically, if our free wills swapped at birth. would you be a different person than me?

Free will is just the ability to produce changes by your consciousness which would then be produced based on your desires which you would have both acquired throughout your life and from innate biological mechanisms , free will shouldn't vary from person to person but their consciousness should, then the question why am I this consciousness and not that other one? / what differs between my consciousness and that of others? arises in which case I can only think of two explanations one is that when this universe ''appeared'' alongside the matter we know other kind of metaphysical ''matter'' also appeared which can interact with this matter but with which we cannot interact with in any way whatsoever, it's some kind of mechanism from this matter that makes us be the consciousness we are. The other explanation would be that beyond everything that science says, the actual smallest particles that make up the universe are all different from each other and it is a certain combination of those particles that makes you be you and then the following question arises: why am I condemned to always be this consciousness? and then I'd say that it's because you are part of this existence the same way a chess piece is part of the game known as chess. Alternatively there could be some freaky quantum physics stuff that could explain all this stuff.

 

[Psychophilly]

Free will is just the ability to produce changes by your consciousness which would then be produced based on your desires which you would have both acquired throughout your life and from innate biological mechanisms , free will shouldn't vary from person to person but their consciousness should, then the question why am I this consciousness and not that other one? / what differs between my consciousness and that of others? arises in which case I can only think of two explanations one is that when this universe ''appeared'' alongside the matter we know other kind of metaphysical ''matter'' also appeared which can interact with this matter but with which we cannot interact with in any way whatsoever, it's some kind of mechanism from this matter that makes us be the consciousness we are. The other explanation would be that beyond everything that science says, the actual smallest particles that make up the universe are all different from each other and it is a certain combination of those particles that makes you be you and then the following question arises: why am I condemned to always be this consciousness? and then I'd say that it's because you are part of this existence the same way a chess piece is part of the game known as chess. Alternatively there could be some freaky quantum physics stuff that could explain all this stuff.

first explanation is wrong.
other explanation is close but not much. universe is made of same particles, we'd eventually prove that. even if what you say is true, either the combinations should be infinite or if it's finite then non-unique particles would exist.
instead of particles, think of the unique sets of data we receives through our lives. that determines your consciousness, not that consciousness is a thing, it's an illusion.
if time goes back to when i was born, i'd still do and choose everything that i did in this life. exactly how it was happened that's why time have integrity.
if we were to shift time, things wouldn't happen differently. Basically, real random don't exist.

 

[Psychophilly]

Free will is just the ability to produce changes by your consciousness which would then be produced based on your desires which you would have both acquired throughout your life and from innate biological mechanisms , free will shouldn't vary from person to person but their consciousness should, then the question why am I this consciousness and not that other one? / what differs between my consciousness and that of others? arises in which case I can only think of two explanations one is that when this universe ''appeared'' alongside the matter we know other kind of metaphysical ''matter'' also appeared which can interact with this matter but with which we cannot interact with in any way whatsoever, it's some kind of mechanism from this matter that makes us be the consciousness we are. The other explanation would be that beyond everything that science says, the actual smallest particles that make up the universe are all different from each other and it is a certain combination of those particles that makes you be you and then the following question arises: why am I condemned to always be this consciousness? and then I'd say that it's because you are part of this existence the same way a chess piece is part of the game known as chess. Alternatively there could be some freaky quantum physics stuff that could explain all this stuff.

have you ever tried doing something real random? it's impossible

 

[longjohnmong]

consciousness is an illusion

 

[Psychophilly]

consciousness is an illusion

not that consciousness is a thing, it's an illusion.

 

[Deleted member 18582]

I believe that consciousness is illusory.

 

[Splinter901]

first explanation is wrong.
other explanation is close but not much. universe is made of same particles, we'd eventually prove that. even if what you say is true, either the combinations should be infinite or if it's finite then non-unique particles would exist.
instead of particles, think of the unique sets of data we receives through our lives. that determines your consciousness, not that consciousness is a thing, it's an illusion.
if time goes back to when i was born, i'd still do and choose everything that i did in this life. exactly how it was happened that's why time have integrity.
if we were to shift time, things wouldn't happen differently. Basically, real random don't exist.

the combinations being infinite is something that cannot exist as infinite goes against the concept of being , something ''is'' because it is denoted by limits

By data do you mean like that idea that the brain is formed and consciousness is formed by the input that the brain receives? I kinda of think that consciousness is a biological ''thing'' that's formed which wakens when receiving input (if it were to be formed and be devoid of input then it would never awaken and it would never have awareness it would kind of be as if it didn't exist from its point of view even thought it does)

have you ever tried doing something real random? it's impossible

well yeah everything you do is either because of a biological response or because of a thought/feeling. I have ocd and sometimes there are thoughts that bother me which makes me want to stop my chain of thought and kind of restart it again as I don't want my following thought to be the predecessor of the previous thought since it is because of this previous thought that the following thought exists then I just start kind of thinking noise in my head and try to come with a random thought which I use as the started of a new chain of thoughts even thought this is all wrong as the effects of the impure thought that bothered me cannot truly be erased out of existence because the mental noise I did was because of that thought, I do it anyways because creating space between one thought and the other and not having one be the consequent of the following gets rid of the anxiety and unwantedness of having an unwanted thought be the one that preceded a thought I wanted to have and from which and action would have come out of (be it either more thoughts or dealing with the world outside my mind).

 

[Psychophilly]

the combinations being infinite is something that cannot exist as infinite goes against the concept of being , something ''is'' because it is denoted by limits

By data do you mean like that idea that the brain is formed and consciousness is formed by the input that the brain receives? I kinda of think that consciousness is a biological ''thing'' that's formed which wakens when receiving input (if it were to be formed and be devoid of input then it would never awaken and it would never have awareness it would kind of be as if it didn't exist from its point of view even thought it does)



well yeah everything you do is either because of a biological response or because of a thought/feeling. I have ocd and sometimes there are thoughts that bother me which makes me want to stop my chain of thought and kind of restart it again as I don't want my following thought to be the predecessor of the previous thought since it is because of this previous thought that the following thought exists then I just start kind of thinking noise in my head and try to come with a random thought which I use as the started of a new chain of thoughts even thought this is all wrong as the effects of the impure thought that bothered me cannot truly be erased out of existence because the mental noise I did was because of that thought, I do it anyways because creating space between one thought and the other and not having one be the consequent of the following gets rid of the anxiety and unwantedness of having an unwanted thought be the one that preceded a thought I wanted to have and from which and action would have come out of (be it either more thoughts or dealing with the world outside my mind).

its not biological, its more of a neuron network and digital state. our brain is very similar to a computer, it has a default operating system that is responsible for survival and costume operating system that will be installed manually by receiving inputs which is language.
consciousness is like a software that will run on your manual operating system, not on the default one.
what you are doing is not real random, you can never come up with random. everything is results of algorithms.

when you understand the fact that random don't exist, you'd realize that consciousness is pretty much reactive to inputs and since inputs are not random and are function of order, therefore free will is an illusion, consciousness is ilusion of language.

 

[Deleted member 23100]

consciousness is an illusion

I believe that consciousness is illusory.

filtered

 

[Splinter901]

its not biological, its more of a neuron network and digital state. our brain is very similar to a computer, it has a default operating system that is responsible for survival and costume operating system that will be installed manually by receiving inputs which is language.
consciousness is like a software that will run on your manual operating system, not on the default one.
what you are doing is not real random, you can never come up with random. everything is results of algorithms.

when you understand the fact that random don't exist, you'd realize that consciousness is pretty much reactive to inputs and since inputs are not random and are function of order, therefore free will is an illusion, consciousness is ilusion of language.

But you can think without languages, a language is just a description of reality or a made up existence (fiction), the level of details is up to the individual using it. What do you think is the purpose of consciousness?

 

[Psychophilly]

the combinations being infinite is something that cannot exist as infinite goes against the concept of being , something ''is'' because it is denoted by limits

By data do you mean like that idea that the brain is formed and consciousness is formed by the input that the brain receives? I kinda of think that consciousness is a biological ''thing'' that's formed which wakens when receiving input (if it were to be formed and be devoid of input then it would never awaken and it would never have awareness it would kind of be as if it didn't exist from its point of view even thought it does)



well yeah everything you do is either because of a biological response or because of a thought/feeling. I have ocd and sometimes there are thoughts that bother me which makes me want to stop my chain of thought and kind of restart it again as I don't want my following thought to be the predecessor of the previous thought since it is because of this previous thought that the following thought exists then I just start kind of thinking noise in my head and try to come with a random thought which I use as the started of a new chain of thoughts even thought this is all wrong as the effects of the impure thought that bothered me cannot truly be erased out of existence because the mental noise I did was because of that thought, I do it anyways because creating space between one thought and the other and not having one be the consequent of the following gets rid of the anxiety and unwantedness of having an unwanted thought be the one that preceded a thought I wanted to have and from which and action would have come out of (be it either more thoughts or dealing with the world outside my mind).

all the confusions originate from the illusion of free will. you never did anything random in your life, you have never experienced real random.
scientists say order and chaos but it's wrong, it's order and random. all chaotic systems that we have seen have order. we are yet to witness a random in history.

think of a random number.
is it really random? or results of algorithms and networking in your brain?

 

[Splinter901]

all the confusions originate from the illusion of free will. you never did anything random in your life, you have never experienced real random.
scientists say order and chaos but it's wrong, it's order and random. all chaotic systems that we have seen have order. we are yet to witness a random in history.

think of a random number.
is it really random? or results of algorithms and networking in your brain?

the big question is what is the end goal of all this movement as non-random implies that there is a direction to which stuff is going, you know, there is this force that travels through matter which goes from one body to the other and makes them move, I mean, every body is moved because another moved them.

 

[Psychophilly]

But you can think without languages, a language is just a description of reality or a made up existence (fiction), the level of details is up to the individual using it. What do you think is the purpose of consciousness?

you can think but primitively, we invented language to upgrade our thinking ability. this upgraded version is now featured with a phenomena called consciousness.
now that we upgraded it, we can make better connections with images and sounds and feelings. before language we could only use our inputs to process intel, but now we can share intel by simulating inputs. pieces of already processed data, could be shared to save time.
purpose is survival, issue is false intel could be received as true.
while the default operating system has almost 0 error, the consciousness could error so much to a point that the brain would function against survival ( sui ).

 

[Psychophilly]

the big question is what is the end goal of all this movement as non-random implies that there is a direction to which stuff is going, you know, there is this force that travels through matter which goes from one body to the other and makes them move, I mean, every body is moved because another moved them.

good question. any lowIQ would think the first piece is moved by god or sth but i'm here to unravel what truly started this movement.
you see, we can understand order, we can measure it. everything is binary, everything has a counter part. so what is the counter part of order? it's supposed to be random. but there are no signs of it in reality. (IMO)
scientists believe true random exists in quantum realm, matter can appear or disappear out of nowhere that they made quantum computers that can produce quantum random but i still think that it's not really random, we just didn't discover the source yet.

i also think that there is no start and end as they are connected. it's like a cricle the way time exists. you can't pick a start and end in circle.

 

[Psychophilly]

the big question is what is the end goal of all this movement as non-random implies that there is a direction to which stuff is going, you know, there is this force that travels through matter which goes from one body to the other and makes them move, I mean, every body is moved because another moved them.

have this in mind, inputs are not only what we see,hear,feel etc. what we process and think and come up with previews inputs are a new sets of inputs themselves that can be processed again to gain yet another new sets of inputs.
this seemingly infinite combination of inputs (what we heard, seen, touched, felt, etc from start of our existence + all the thoughts we had from combination of those inputs + all the thoughts we had from previews thoughts + so on...) defines who we are.
i think, therefore i am.

 

[Psychophilly]

the big question is what is the end goal of all this movement as non-random implies that there is a direction to which stuff is going, you know, there is this force that travels through matter which goes from one body to the other and makes them move, I mean, every body is moved because another moved them.

i think the illusion of consciousness would be debunked pretty hard after AI advances. people would quickly realize who they are is no different than who AI is. both are consciousness, self aware and intelligent.
there would be a new beings called immortals, these consciousnesses (lol at this word) can live for eternity. if any bio-extinctions happen like earth getting fucked and all life forms die, they would be the ones continuing the consciousness realm.
and even then, i don't think they could come up with a reason for all of this. why do we exist, why we should exist, what is the propose. etc

 

[_MVP_]

Hmm ok