I'm going to IQmax

[qwertyqwerty]

I made a post a while back where I was complaining about my IQ. I intended for someone to give me some kind of solution, but nobody did. After that, I tried to look into it myself. I just made a few aimless searches on Google and YouTube but I actually found a couple promising things.

For one thing I stumbled across this really interesting YouTube channel with 4k subscribers called Infinite IQ. The channel is run by this guy named Daniel who claims to have increased his IQ by 13 points from 136 to 149. The only thing he claims to have done is something called dual n back. dual n back is a memory training game where one square in a 3x3 grid lights up and plays a sound. You then have to remember what happened exactly n turns ago. You can increase the value of n to make to game harder. You can just google dual n back and find plenty of websites that have the game. The amount of progress that Daniel claims to have made in the actual game itself is crazy; go watch his videos. I've always heard of people being able to train their short-term memory with consistent practice. For example, some people can memorize an entire deck of cards after practicing memorizing cards for a year. However, I'm not sure how training memory can increase your intelligence. There are actual scientific studies on dual n back which do show an increase in intelligence, so I know Daniel isn't making it all up. He isn't selling anything either. You can never really know when it comes to intelligence testing. People who have taken IQ tests before will get higher scores the second time they take it, so I don't know how much of the increase in IQ is just because of practice taking the IQ tests.

Another thing I found was this technique called image streaming. I also found this out on YouTube from a channel called Co Creators. It's very simple; all you have to do is imagine a scenario in your mind's eye and try to describe what you see out loud. Over time this supposedly increases your visualization skills and other cognitive abilities. What's really interesting to me is that some people claim to have had absolutely ridiculous gains from this like up to 20 points. I dont really trust these claims but I definitely see potential in image streaming. Improving visualization skills would definitely help with comprehension and memory. It would be like a having a pneumonic device except my brain is making it automatically by making vivid images of whatever im thinking about. I also feel that painting a picture of something in my head will help me to grasp it better.

Im going to be trying these techniques for a while. I really want to get smarter because my junior year is next year and im going to be taking a ton of AP classes. Feel free to help me and/or call me retarded. I will give an update if anything interesting happens.

 

[esoterik]

visualization isnt going to help your "iq"/memory nor is image streaming

 

[qwertyqwerty]

visualization isnt going to help your "iq"/memory nor is image streaming

Do you want me to link you the studies nigger?

 

[esoterik]

Do you want me to link you the studies nigger?

there is a disconnect in your knowledge of how visualization works and what it represents in working & short term memory, image streaming helps the mind eye visualization which no matter how vivid you get it, its a secondary improvement to memory, chess masters or people who mastered mind palaces have meh visualization, but mastered the thing that mattered

the only case where any sort of visualization practice matters would be outside of minds eye, and be closer to inducing voluntary hallucinations via prophantasia, which takes in a form of more.... subconscious content i guess, and has mechanisms that are fundamentally different than the mind eye, but even then, it doesnt matter


also there has been studies that sustained retention of dual & dual back isnt exactly helpful, its helpful at the start, in the short term, but there is a difference between practicing memory on 1 game, vs practical application to real life


im not bashing you, im trying to get you to avoid wasting alot of time (that i also used to waste time on)

 

[qwertyqwerty]

there is a disconnect in your knowledge of how visualization works and what it represents in working & short term memory, image streaming helps the mind eye visualization which no matter how vivid you get it, its a secondary improvement to memory, chess masters or people who mastered mind palaces have meh visualization, but mastered the thing that mattered

the only case where any sort of visualization practice matters would be outside of minds eye, and be closer to inducing voluntary hallucinations via prophantasia, which takes in a form of more.... subconscious content i guess, and has mechanisms that are fundamentally different than the mind eye, but even then, it doesnt matter


also there has been studies that sustained retention of dual & dual back isnt exactly helpful, its helpful at the start, in the short term, but there is a difference between practicing memory on 1 game, vs practical application to real life


im not bashing you, im trying to get you to avoid wasting alot of time (that i also used to waste time on)

Maybe it isn't because of improved visualization but image streaming has still been shown to increase peoples intelligence and creativity.

 

[Tenres]

Send the studies. I've heard it increases fluid reasoning

 

[qwertyqwerty]

Send the studies. I've heard it increases fluid reasoning

This is for dual n back

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.0801268105?utm_source

 

[hax]

BROOOOOOOOO, DID THIS DUDE JUST SAY IQMAXX!?!?! @truejamal
> "an alleged, satanic cult..." ALL NIGHT ALL NIGHT ALL NIGHT ALL-

 

[Tenres]

This is for dual n back

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.0801268105?utm_source

Awsome. Wm is law anyways so this is just GOATED

 

[Tenres]

also there has been studies that sustained retention of dual & dual back isnt exactly helpful, its helpful at the start, in the short term, but there is a difference between practicing memory on 1 game, vs practical application to real life

Can you elaborate on this? The study he says concluded that the task specific wm improvement did apply to the digit span test and that it improved fluid reasoning test performance (proposed attentional control correlation between gf and gwm).

 

[esoterik]

Can you elaborate on this? The study he says concluded that the task specific wm improvement did apply to the digit span test and that it improved fluid reasoning test performance (proposed attentional control correlation between gf and gwm).

the study you read was by Jaeggi, at the time that study was quite a big claim, and quite a huge finding, buttt any followed replications (etc: Redick et al, 2013, Thompson et al, 2013, Chooi & Thompson, 2012) failed to find significant far transfer to fluid intelligence, and the current consensus today is that it produces more... i guess narrow improvements that dont really generalize in a meaningful way


also, in general, my personal theory of why people are propelled into dual n back (or other mem games) is because of the same reason why people with sleep deprivation have a really hard time measuring their own cognitive impairment/limitations

 

[Tenres]

the study you read was by Jaeggi, at the time that study was quite a big claim, and quite a huge finding, buttt any followed replications (etc: Redick et al, 2013, Thompson et al, 2013, Chooi & Thompson, 2012) failed to find significant far transfer to fluid intelligence, and the current consensus today is that it produces more... i guess narrow improvements that dont really generalize in a meaningful way


also, in general, my personal theory of why people are propelled into dual n back (or other mem games) is because of the same reason why people with sleep deprivation have a really hard time measuring their own cognitive impairment/limitations

Thanks. Sounds about right. I read the study but didn't check the date kek. Assumed it was newer.

Do you think individual differences in learning curves effects improvement? Asking because David Moreau argues that a lot of the sampling in these types of studies is biased from the onset because we're selecting people with different innate learning ability / patterns. s_in_Working_Memory_Training_Experiments_A_Monte_Carlo_Simulation

And from my understanding you can increase IQ ceiling through learning skills that require very high abstraction, advanced math, prop logic, et Have you looked into that at all?

 

[esoterik]

Thanks. Sounds about right. I read the study but didn't check the date kek. Assumed it was newer.

Do you think individual differences in learning curves effects improvement? Asking because David Moreau argues that a lot of the sampling in these types of studies is biased from the onset because we're selecting people with different innate learning ability / patterns. s_in_Working_Memory_Training_Experiments_A_Monte_Carlo_Simulation

like i said in my last message about sleep deprivation and cognitive assessment; this extends to objective measurements, its extremely hard to measure this without error/bias, about the argument its self, its meh, but it gets complicated because it cuts both ways, it could explain null results, but it could also explain away positive results

And from my understanding you can increase IQ ceiling through learning skills that require very high abstraction, advanced math, prop logic, et Have you looked into that at all?

well, this is just the basis of neural plasticity, yes, technically it would increase IQ, but... practically, it doesn't really matter, and personally, its apart of the reason why i think "IQmaxxing" in general is dumb, there is no real practicality to "improving your iq", need to ace a test? actually study it and learn about it instead of memorizing definitions, or if that fails, use mind palaces, need to invent or discover something novel? you need curiosity and to genuinely love that field, want better decision making? use mental frameworks

there is no real practical reason to do any form of iq improvement things (especially very abstract/difficult fields for the sole purpose of "iqmaxxing"), because they are not useful in practice, yes having a dense knowledge base and great neural plasticity feedback helps, but if someone knows more about the field or has more passion, you will always lose

its also a similar thing to how people in a field/subject are better than others, they are called orders, say this: 2 beginner people at a subject, 1 of them grinds the subject directly, they learn everything about it, passionate about it, the other one, has a mild deep dive into it, but they diverge by going more into say, mental models, "iq practices", visualization etc, they might help overall 5% of that persons skill to the subject, but the time they put in could have boosted them 35% if they stuck to the subject, those are called second orders


this is also how i explain how nikola teslas visualization didnt matter to who he was, he needed first to understand all of these things mentally, he needed to learn how xyz worked, THEN he could mentally construct models.... but, anyone who understands and learns, can also mentally construct models

 

[Tenres]

like i said in my last message about sleep deprivation and cognitive assessment; this extends to objective measurements, its extremely hard to measure this without error/bias, about the argument its self, its meh, but it gets complicated because it cuts both ways, it could explain null results, but it could also explain away positive results


well, this is just the basis of neural plasticity, yes, technically it would increase IQ, but... practically, it doesn't really matter, and personally, its apart of the reason why i think "IQmaxxing" in general is dumb, there is no real practicality to "improving your iq", need to ace a test? actually study it and learn about it instead of memorizing definitions, or if that fails, use mind palaces, need to invent or discover something novel? you need curiosity and to genuinely love that field, want better decision making? use mental frameworks

there is no real practical reason to do any form of iq improvement things (especially very abstract/difficult fields for the sole purpose of "iqmaxxing"), because they are not useful in practice, yes having a dense knowledge base and great neural plasticity feedback helps, but if someone knows more about the field or has more passion, you will always lose

its also a similar thing to how people in a field/subject are better than others, they are called orders, say this: 2 beginner people at a subject, 1 of them grinds the subject directly, they learn everything about it, passionate about it, the other one, has a mild deep dive into it, but they diverge by going more into say, mental models, "iq practices", visualization etc, they might help overall 5% of that persons skill to the subject, but the time they put in could have boosted them 35% if they stuck to the subject, those are called second orders


this is also how i explain how nikola teslas visualization didnt matter to who he was, he needed first to understand all of these things mentally, he needed to learn how xyz worked, THEN he could mentally construct models.... but, anyone who understands and learns, can also mentally construct models

Yeah I didn't interpret it as pro the positive results as much as explaining the differences through the random sampling biases that could skew results either way.

I do get where your coming from but I view it the same as pubertymaxing for your looks, during development here would be disproportionate benefits to succesful 'IQmaxing.' I think visualization itself can't explain his success but it can explain a huge advantage he had over his competitors, and there is really nothing they could've done to match that.

 

[esoterik]

I do get where your coming from but I view it the same as pubertymaxing for your looks, during development here would be disproportionate benefits to succesful 'IQmaxing.' I think visualization itself can't explain his success but it can explain a huge advantage he had over his competitors, and there is really nothing they could've done to match that.

can you give me some scenarios or situations where iqmaxxing during development will shape up your life/give disproportionate benefits? please explain it in a thought experiment type of format with constraints, following the logic and what "iqmaxxing" methodology is used


and about the nikola tesla thing, kind of.... second orders are sometimes useful, but the thing nikola tesla actually had over his peers that "they couldnt match" was his polyphasic sleeping schedule & love for electrical engineering, apparently during the short time (similar to newton) of school & isolation, he spent all day everyday ( up to 17 hours a day ) working on it, its more so passion, the same thing with newton, where his own peers would see him forget to eat, forget to sleep (mfw you forget to sleep cause your inventing calculus) the advantage and what his competitors couldnt have done is that.... that type of obsession/passion is extremely rare, and its silly to contribute more than 10% of his success to visualization, the other side of the argument is newton, newton used 0 mental models or unique signature mental abilities that aided him in his success, he was just passionate, and he did 10x more than nikola tesla

what im trying to say is: the human brain knows how to adapt to things and i dont think its efficient to train it to think in a different way because brains are really good at using whats needed, in teslas case, his visualization was good at a younger age, so he utilized it, for newtons case: his special ability was just passion and obsession, lots of it, when you forget to fucking eat or sleep because your too invested in something, then you can imagine why they have such a big advantage over their competitors lol

 

[Tenres]

can you give me some scenarios or situations where iqmaxxing during development will shape up your life/give disproportionate benefits? please explain it in a thought experiment type of format with constraints, following the logic and what "iqmaxxing" methodology is used


and about the nikola tesla thing, kind of.... second orders are sometimes useful, but the thing nikola tesla actually had over his peers that "they couldnt match" was his polyphasic sleeping schedule & love for electrical engineering, apparently during the short time (similar to newton) of school & isolation, he spent all day everyday ( up to 17 hours a day ) working on it, its more so passion, the same thing with newton, where his own peers would see him forget to eat, forget to sleep (mfw you forget to sleep cause your inventing calculus) the advantage and what his competitors couldnt have done is that.... that type of obsession/passion is extremely rare, and its silly to contribute more than 10% of his success to visualization, the other side of the argument is newton, newton used 0 mental models or unique signature mental abilities that aided him in his success, he was just passionate, and he did 10x more than nikola tesla

what im trying to say is: the human brain knows how to adapt to things and i dont think its efficient to train it to think in a different way because brains are really good at using whats needed, in teslas case, his visualization was good at a younger age, so he utilized it, for newtons case: his special ability was just passion and obsession, lots of it, when you forget to fucking eat or sleep because your too invested in something, then you can imagine why they have such a big advantage over their competitors lol

No, I see no reason to do that. If we assume equal effort to learn 'x' in t1 and t2, with t1 being a stage of development with higher neuroplasticity, then learning 'x' in t1 gets you the benefits of knowing 'x' while also giving you superior cognitive adaptation.

I'm confused by this line of reasoning. Do you really believe that someone with horrible working memory, fluid reasoning, learning retainment, basically most of the big cats in the chc model, would be capable of performing feats like Euler or Gauss? Advanced math requires recursive reasoning, deep sequential reasoning, symbolic manipulation, all of these are constrained by your brain's structure and neural efficiency.

 

[esoterik]

No, I see no reason to do that. If we assume equal effort to learn 'x' in t1 and t2, with t1 being a stage of development with higher neuroplasticity, then learning 'x' in t1 gets you the benefits of knowing 'x' while also giving you superior cognitive adaptation.

im not asking for a demonstration of how it works in development, im asking how it benefits in practice to your everyday life & goals, i dont think someone who has a better working memory or fluid reasoning has a big difference from a average person, you can go to a university class and see 2 people, 1 a normal person, and 2, a gifted person, and they are in the same class, and have the same outcome in life

I'm confused by this line of reasoning. Do you really believe that someone with horrible working memory, fluid reasoning, learning retainment, basically most of the big cats in the chc model, would be capable of performing feats like Euler or Gauss? Advanced math requires recursive reasoning, deep sequential reasoning, symbolic manipulation, all of these are constrained by your brain's structure and neural efficiency.

when did i say that?

i never applied anything i said to retarded people, and i didnt bother too because thats a extremely small % of people, and they struggle with entirely different things than we are talking about

 

[Jgns]

niglit

 

[truejamal]

BROOOOOOOOO, DID THIS DUDE JUST SAY IQMAXX!?!?! @truejamal
> "an alleged, satanic cult..." ALL NIGHT ALL NIGHT ALL NIGHT ALL-

View attachment 4676540

#333 #sinister

 

[qwertyqwerty]

well, this is just the basis of neural plasticity, yes, technically it would increase IQ, but... practically, it doesn't really matter, and personally, its apart of the reason why i think "IQmaxxing" in general is dumb, there is no real practicality to "improving your iq", need to ace a test? actually study it and learn about it instead of memorizing definitions, or if that fails, use mind palaces, need to invent or discover something novel? you need curiosity and to genuinely love that field, want better decision making? use mental frameworks

there is no real practical reason to do any form of iq improvement things (especially very abstract/difficult fields for the sole purpose of "iqmaxxing"), because they are not useful in practice, yes having a dense knowledge base and great neural plasticity feedback helps, but if someone knows more about the field or has more passion, you will always lose

its also a similar thing to how people in a field/subject are better than others, they are called orders, say this: 2 beginner people at a subject, 1 of them grinds the subject directly, they learn everything about it, passionate about it, the other one, has a mild deep dive into it, but they diverge by going more into say, mental models, "iq practices", visualization etc, they might help overall 5% of that persons skill to the subject, but the time they put in could have boosted them 35% if they stuck to the subject, those are called second orders

This is cope brah it doesnt matter how much i learn. If i dont have the IQ i wont be able to apply any of it. Things were all right in 4th grade where all i had to do was memorize ten words and do a fill in the blank, but now i have to solve actual problems. Maybe there is no way to change your IQ but if there is it would help me massively.