Interesting thoughts about food/diet

[Deleted member 1476]

This is a great thread. We need more discussion about diet and health on here, even it doesn’t specifically pertain to looks (although it often does).

 

[Dude420]

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature

Dude, there is an evolutionary LOGIC behind your natural inclinations, your sensory experience like your taste bud is the product of an adaptive process to what was a natural environment, you can't dismiss his argument just like that, you are the one being fallacious in your reasoning if you are doing so based on that fallacy; what is natural isn't necessarily good, but nonetheless often is, you aren't proving that his logic is flawed by suggesting this, you are only saying it may be flawed, well it may not, showing that his point is nonsensical you haven't done.

 

[Deleted member 483]

Dude, there is an evolutionary LOGIC behind your natural inclinations, your sensory experience like your taste bud is the product of an adaptive process to what was a natural environment, you can't dismiss his argument just like that, you are the one being fallacious in your reasoning if you are doing so based on that fallacy; what is natural isn't necessarily good, but nonetheless often is, you aren't proving that his logic is flawed by suggesting this, you are only saying it may be flawed, well it may not, showing that his point is nonsensical you haven't done.

I don't know this dude, but im guessing he is a carnivore. Carnivores often appeal to nature like crazy, because they dont have studies backing their claims up and their main argument points all stem from appeal to nature.

Science (non-vegan biased science) links meat & cholesterol with CVD risk undoubtedly. Out of 100 study done on cholesterol, about 90 of them will give results saying cholesterol is bad for you. I'm not saying meat is the devil necessary and vegan diet is superior, but claiming meat is good for you based upon the argument "our hunter-gatheres ate this" is not a very good argument in the sea of research proving, meat is indeed, very bad for your heart long term.

Also, just a funny a coincidental case: I'm not a vegan myself because of environment, health or activist reasons. When I was a baby I would throw up on baby food that contained meat and when I was 5 years old, I denied eating meat because I didn't like it. I hated the taste, smell and texture of it, while everyone tried to force me to eat it (force-feed even). This carried over to my current self, I still have the hatred for it same way I did when I was young. I know this is an extreme anecdotal case, but it's enough to raise good counter argument to your point saying what your senses dictate you may be not the best for you, as in I don't believe a completely vegan diet is most optimal for a baby or a kid, nevertheless the risks long term associated with cardiovascular implications.

 

[Dude420]

Also, just a funny a coincidental case: I'm not a vegan myself because of environment, health or activist reasons. When I was a baby I would throw up on baby food that contained meat and when I was 5 years old, I denied eating meat because I didn't like it. I hated the taste, smell and texture of it, while everyone tried to force me to eat it (force-feed even). This carried over to my current self, I still have the hatred for it same way I did when I was young. I know this is an extreme anecdotal case, but it's enough to raise good counter argument to your point saying what your senses dictate you may be not the best for you, as in I don't believe a completely vegan diet is most optimal for a baby or a kid, nevertheless the risks long term associated with cardiovascular implications.

Interesting, but yea very anecdotic, when you develop a strong aversion for some type of food, sometimes it is because you happened to have been made sick by something else simultaneously or in the case of meat it could not have been 100% fresh, so you unconsciously made a strong negative association with eating that type of food, which is actually unfounded because it is based on an anecdotal event, my brother develop this for bananas.

 

[yeahimogtho]

All of this is false but i dont have time to debunk it

 

[SikKunt]

I don't know this dude, but im guessing he is a carnivore. Carnivores often appeal to nature like crazy, because they dont have studies backing their claims up and their main argument points all stem from appeal to nature.

Science (non-vegan biased science) links meat & cholesterol with CVD risk undoubtedly. Out of 100 study done on cholesterol, about 90 of them will give results saying cholesterol is bad for you. I'm not saying meat is the devil necessary and vegan diet is superior, but claiming meat is good for you based upon the argument "our hunter-gatheres ate this" is not a very good argument in the sea of research proving, meat is indeed, very bad for your heart long term.

Also, just a funny a coincidental case: I'm not a vegan myself because of environment, health or activist reasons. When I was a baby I would throw up on baby food that contained meat and when I was 5 years old, I denied eating meat because I didn't like it. I hated the taste, smell and texture of it, while everyone tried to force me to eat it (force-feed even). This carried over to my current self, I still have the hatred for it same way I did when I was young. I know this is an extreme anecdotal case, but it's enough to raise good counter argument to your point saying what your senses dictate you may be not the best for you, as in I don't believe a completely vegan diet is most optimal for a baby or a kid, nevertheless the risks long term associated with cardiovascular implications.

Bart Kay is a carnivore that tries to debunk the most popular pro plant-based studies, you should take a look at him.

 

[Dude420]

All of this is false but i dont have time to debunk it

Just try to debunk the celery one, I wish someone tried debunking that supportive argument.
Btw, I am not 100% sold on the idea I presented, I just trying to support it to see if it could make sense because I never heard of that angle.

 

[Deleted member 483]

Bart Kay is a carnivore that tries to debunk the most popular pro plant-based studies, you should take a look at him.

i know him and seen a couple videos and he doesnt seem mentally stable. its funny how all diet youtubers (including vegan gains), frank tufano, sv3rige, bart kay, dr.shawn carnvicore doc guy are all just fucking crazy

 

[yeahimogtho]

Just try to debunk the celery on, I wish someone tried debunking that supportive argument.
Btw, I am not 100% sold on the idea I presented, I just trying to support it to see if it could make sense because I never heard of that angle.

Well, you'd have to start by reading Dostoyevsky's War and Peace and after that you'd have to do a mind opening exercise with an East Indian Sikh, then we can begin to discuss Offervescent angling of the sun

 

[SikKunt]

i know him and seen a couple videos and he doesnt seem mentally stable. its funny how all diet youtubers (including vegan gains), frank tufano, sv3rige, bart kay, dr.shawn carnvicore doc guy are all just fucking crazy

Bart Kay is autistic so that might be why you think that.
Although he does make some good points about those studies. And Sv3rige does kind of show how the plant-based diet makes people deteriorate (yes I know most deteriorated "vegans" are fruitarian or some shit but even WFPB dieters look deteriorated.)

 

[Dude420]

Well, you'd have to start by reading Dostoyevsky's War and Peace and after that you'd have to do a mind opening exercise with an East Indian Sikh, then we can begin to discuss Offervescent angling of the sun

I rather delve into better understand my Jungian archetype.

 

[yeahimogtho]

I rather delve into better understand my Jungian archetype.

Jungians me to the motherfucking stratosphere

 

[Deleted member 483]

Interesting, but yea very anecdotic, when you develop a strong aversion for some type of food, sometimes it is because you happened to have been made sick by something else simultaneously or in the case of meat it could not have been 100% fresh, so you unconsciously made a strong negative association with eating that type of food, which is actually unfounded because it is based on an anecdotal event, my brother develop this for bananas.

here is another anecdotal case:

my mother was a meat eater her entire life. she developed auto-immunogic rheumatoid arthritis and it escalated to a very severe case of where her joints were entirely swollen and she couldnt walk by herself. this was around when i was 12-13ish and i wasnt eating meat for 7+ years at this point on my own decision, of which my parents made their peace with it (they tried to force me to eat meat for 1-2 years then gave up).

my mother gotten heavy steroid doses to make situation better and she couldnt improve. she needed help with going to the toilet, bathroom etc and was just laying all day. doctors said we need to install special equipment around the house, because she likely wont move for the rest of her life. they tried all meds on her and she didnt respond too well to any med, still could barely move. after half a year to a year passed she was pretty hopeless and was turning to naturopath medicine ways (basically scammers for most part) but she read this book about some "natural doctor" and his diet that cures stuff and it was a vegetarian diet, not a vegan one. so she decided to try it for 1-2 months. after 1 month in, the swollen joints became 1/3 the size and the pain almost completely allieviated. 3 months without meat she was completely symtompless, could walk same way. about 10y or so passed and shes still symtompless. this makes me think i have some genetic stuff inherited from her that makes meat fuck me up and ive naturally adapted counter-instincts when i was very young to avoid this

 

[Dude420]

here is another anecdotal case:

my mother was a meat eater her entire life. she developed auto-immunogic rheumatoid arthritis and it escalated to a very severe case of where her joints were entirely swollen and she couldnt walk by herself. this was around when i was 12-13ish and i wasnt eating meat for 7+ years at this point on my own decision, of which my parents made their peace with it (they tried to force me to eat meat for 1-2 years then gave up).

my mother gotten heavy steroid doses to make situation better and she couldnt improve. she needed help with going to the toilet, bathroom etc and was just laying all day. doctors said we need to install special equipment around the house, because she likely wont move for the rest of her life. they tried all meds on her and she didnt respond too well to any med, still could barely move. after half a year to a year passed she was pretty hopeless and was turning to naturopath medicine ways (basically scammers for most part) but she read this book about some "natural doctor" and his diet that cures stuff and it was a vegetarian diet, not a vegan one. so she decided to try it for 1-2 months. after 1 month in, the swollen joints became 1/3 the size and the pain almost completely allieviated. 3 months without meat she was completely symtompless, could walk same way. about 10y or so passed and shes still symtompless. this makes me think i have some genetic stuff inherited from her that makes meat fuck me up and ive naturally adapted counter-instincts when i was very young to avoid this

Yeah, being genetic makes more sense from that angle in your case. It is like the reverse story of J.Peterson and his daughter.

 

[Deleted member 483]

Yeah, being genetic makes more sense from that angle in your case. It is like the reverse story of J.Peterson and his daughter.

For the record, I'm not convinced a 100% plant based diet is most optimal human diet. I'm also not convinced a carnivore type of diet is good (considering cardiovascular disease, alzheimer, meat being pro-inflammatory etc.) and a standard american diet is obviously bad too, so what I currently think is most optimal human diet is something like Low-GI complex carbs consisting of bulk of calories with like animal products being 5-10% of your calories, mainly fish. Pretty much similar to the "Okinawan" diet. Okinawan tribes have longest living people documented afaik, even tho it's obervational research, it still says something

 

[BrettyBoy]

Not a single word.

Forgot to add the ‘XD’ at the end but just fucking around.

 

[Blacktarpill]

I like fruits

 

[Tony]

dn red but i eat raw meat everyday

 

[Balkancel]

How can anyone ignore the fact that humans drastically evolved as a species once they started eating animal flesh? Before that we were literally no better that monkeys. Our brains grew larger and we became the most dominant/smart animals to ever walk the earth. We were at our best/healthiest when we were hunter gatherers eating a diet largely comprised of various fatty meats and some wild roots. With the onset of agriculture we started to deteriorate right away. We shrunk in height, chronic disease and shit like diabetes, heart disease, obesity, cancer, depression etc became rampant. All of those were unheard of before the agricultural evolution

We are literally becoming more subhuman with every bite of grains and other useless shit that we consume. Diabetes, heart disease, obesity, depression, anxiety etc they are present everywhere and it's becoming the norm

 

[Gebirgscel]

Inuits could strive without it, what if meat is always more nutritious? An interesting observation is that fruits are the more sugary when their concentration of water is at his highest; since water tastes nothing, what if we partly evolve to like sugar as an indicator that what you are eating contain the highest concentration of water.

Sugar itself ? has no water.
Also, milk has lactose which is also sweet
You have a point with the veggies, but fruits are a bit more complicated.
You have to reason, why we like sweet things

 

[Dude420]

Sugar itself ? has no water.
Also, milk has lactose which is also sweet
You have a point with the veggies, but fruits are a bit more complicated.
You have to reason, why we like sweet things

You have specific adaptations for when you are babies that you lose when you come to adulthood because they don't serve you. You don't feel compelled to suck your mom tits anymore, so it is worth what it is worth in terms of breastfeeding milk being sweet.
The fruit is at his sweetest when the water concentration is at his highest, since water tastes nothing, sweet could be a proxy for which we identify fruits containing a high water concentration which could explain why we like sweet things so much. That would be an argument following my theory, not that I am sold on it, I know glucose/fructose being healthy for you is the standard reasoning, or maybe it could partly be explained by both. It is interesting to question things from a different perspective.
Pure sugar doesn't exist in an ancestral environment, so we haven't developed an adaptation for it. Which is quite evident since we like it even though it quite evidently not good for us.

 

[Ritalincel]

dn red but i eat raw meat everyday

 

[Insomniac]