Is > 5mm of lefort 1 always a looksmin if you are getting Bimax?

[lilhorizontal32]

unsure about large lf1 movements (> 5mm) even though a blackpilled surgeon recommend 6mm lf1 in my case (I have a slight overbite)

downsides:
- big change in upper lip & philtrum and can cause "chimp lip"
- reduces ogee curve/flattens cheekbones
- widens nose

upsides:
- allows for more BSSO movement
- improves nose breathing (?)

 

[sandcelmuttcel]

git quadrangular lefort 1

 

[lutte]

 

[KraftDurchLeid]

Bump

 

[Mastermind]

>lf1
>looksmin
Imagine being this much of a greycel

 

[Mongrelcel]

IDK about the ogee, when I jut my jaw, my ogee catually looks better

 

[Deleted member 6892]

IDK about the ogee, when I jut my jaw, my ogee catually looks better

hes talking about lower maxilla and lf1 i assume

 

[mogstar]

View attachment 1131053

Reported for shitposting in the Looksmaxxing section

 

[.👽.]

5mm is huge for the maxilla.

But depends on your base, is your maxilla recessed? If Not i wouldnt go above 3mm

 

[lutte]

>lf1
>looksmin
Imagine being this much of a greycel

 

[lilhorizontal32]

View attachment 1131076

do you know what movements he got?

also kind of hard to be objective about the result cos of the change in head tilt

 

[Deleted member 756]

View attachment 1131076

He does look better

 

[lutte]

do you know what movements he got?

also kind of hard to be objective about the result cos of the change in head tilt

6 or 7 mm lf1 I think

 

[lutte]

He does look better

Would you?

 

[Mongrelcel]

hes talking about lower maxilla and lf1 i assume

yes, I am as well
i believe that my ogee will look better once my lf1 recesion is corrected

 

[Deleted member 4430]

IDK about the ogee, when I jut my jaw, my ogee catually looks better

because you just pulled out your mandible. the problem with Lefort I is that you only move the upper palate, the rest of maxilla stays behind, so if you have some ogre curve pre-surgery and gets bimax with more Lefort I movement you can lose it.

>lf1
>looksmin
Imagine being this much of a greycel

imagine dont know anything about surgery but commenting.

 

[lilhorizontal32]

because you just pulled out your mandible. the problem with Lefort I is that you only move the upper palate, the rest of maxilla stays behind, so if you have some ogre curve pre-surgery and gets bimax with more Lefort I movement you can lose it.

yeah this is what I was thinking

do you reckon its worth losing your ogee curve for additional jaw movement?
I also got offered BSSO + Genio but wanted to do bimax for 6mm extra movement on both jaws + 15mm of bigonial widening

 

[Lorsss]

Lefort1 bigger then 5mm: is it good or bad?
It depends from the CCW angle: if the doctor pulls your maxilla too forward he needs to compensate with more CCW to avoid a midface ratio increase.

Keep in mind CCW rotation has a limit: you cannot rotate your occlusal plane too much upward, or your front teeth will point to the sky

 

[lilhorizontal32]

Lefort1 bigger then 5mm: is it good or bad?
It depends from the CCW angle: if the doctor pulls your maxilla too forward he needs to compensate with more CCW to avoid a midface ratio increase.

Keep in mind CCW rotation has a limit: you cannot rotate your occlusal plane too much upward, or your front teeth will point to the sky

the dr I want to go with only wants to do 1 degree CCW and 6mm lf1.

another blackpilled surgeon I spoke to tho said he will only do 3mm lf1 max and opted for 5 degrees CCW

hard to know which is best though because both are blackpilled surgeons that are heavily endorsed on looksmax

 

[Mongrelcel]

because you just pulled out your mandible. the problem with Lefort I is that you only move the upper palate, the rest of maxilla stays behind, so if you have some ogre curve pre-surgery and gets bimax with more Lefort I movement you can lose it.


imagine dont know anything about surgery but commenting.

Supposed this is how my ogee looks now (exaggerated ofc)

I beleve that iy will look like that after bimax + genio

Now the lower part is just straight because its recessed, but after bimax and genio there will be more curves, so better ogee

 

[Mastermind]

because you just pulled out your mandible. the problem with Lefort I is that you only move the upper palate, the rest of maxilla stays behind, so if you have some ogre curve pre-surgery and gets bimax with more Lefort I movement you can lose it.


imagine dont know anything about surgery but commenting.

Shut the fuck up, a LF1 will never be looksmin unless you perform it on a first class bite or you're a legit retard

 

[reptiles]

unsure about large lf1 movements (> 5mm) even though a blackpilled surgeon recommend 6mm lf1 in my case (I have a slight overbite)

downsides:
- big change in upper lip & philtrum and can cause "chimp lip"
- reduces ogee curve/flattens cheekbones
- widens nose

upsides:
- allows for more BSSO movement
- improves nose breathing (?)

Not if you get with rotation

 

[Cigarette]

View attachment 1131076

from boot faced to shoe faced

 

[lilhorizontal32]

Not if you get with rotation

how much rotation is necessary to nullify the side effects caused by a 6mm lf1?

 

[reptiles]

how much rotation is necessary to nullify the side effects caused by a 6mm lf1?

I don't know tbqh it's depends on the indiviual basis and it also depends on the kind of rotation most dudes are like either 12 or 18 degrees something extreme is like 32 degrees but you would need a revision.

 

[lilhorizontal32]

I don't know tbqh it's depends on the indiviual basis and it also depends on the kind of rotation most dudes are like either 12 or 18 degrees something extreme is like 32 degrees but you would need a revision.

12 or 18 seems too much, definitely 32. you sure thats correct? pretty sure even lordmadness who had a great ascension only got about 6 degree

 

[reptiles]

12 or 18 seems too much, definitely 32. you sure thats correct? pretty sure even lordmadness who had a great ascension only got about 6 degree

32 is the extreme only dudes that need this is @Toodlydood

 

[lilhorizontal32]

32 is the extreme only dudes that need this is @Toodlydood

View attachment 1131294

View attachment 1131295

makes sense. didnt know that gonial angle could be changed through bimax

 

[reptiles]

makes sense. didnt know that gonial angle could be changed through bimax

It can if you do an rotation

 

[.👽.]

unsure about large lf1 movements (> 5mm) even though a blackpilled surgeon recommend 6mm lf1 in my case (I have a slight overbite)

downsides:
- big change in upper lip & philtrum and can cause "chimp lip"
- reduces ogee curve/flattens cheekbones
- widens nose

upsides:
- allows for more BSSO movement
- improves nose breathing (?)

did u get your answer

 

[lilhorizontal32]

did u get your answer

Somewhat but still not 100% sure

it seems that unless your maxilla is quite recessed, any more than 4mm is a risk

 

[.👽.]

Somewhat but still not 100% sure

it seems that unless your maxilla is quite recessed, any more than 4mm is a risk

i see. i have the problem that people either say dont get lefort1 at all to get at least 5mm lf1. im stuck in between not knowing what tk do

 

[lilhorizontal32]

i see. i have the problem that people either say dont get lefort1 at all to get at least 5mm lf1. im stuck in between not knowing what tk do

Exact same boat as you

 

[one job away]

unsure about large lf1 movements (> 5mm) even though a blackpilled surgeon recommend 6mm lf1 in my case (I have a slight overbite)

downsides:
- big change in upper lip & philtrum and can cause "chimp lip"
- reduces ogee curve/flattens cheekbones
- widens nose

upsides:
- allows for more BSSO movement
- improves nose breathing (?)

From what I’ve read it’s better to have a higher CCW and less advancement. Also just with my own logical thinking it appears as the better solution. Especially if you are white. It depends on how recessed your maxilla is tho.

 

[one job away]

unsure about large lf1 movements (> 5mm) even though a blackpilled surgeon recommend 6mm lf1 in my case (I have a slight overbite)

downsides:
- big change in upper lip & philtrum and can cause "chimp lip"
- reduces ogee curve/flattens cheekbones
- widens nose

upsides:
- allows for more BSSO movement
- improves nose breathing (?)

We would have to see the reason for your recession. If it’s a downward grown maxilla it’s probably best to have medium advancement and a medium rotation.

if you have simple a barely forward grown maxilla that isn’t downward grown then the angle of the maxilla is probably correct and you should only advance it.

in the end you should aim to achieve a normal position with a bit more chad forward growth.

did you send me a picture in dm already ? I think so right ? Whatever the blackpilled surgeon planned looked good to me

 

[.👽.]

From what I’ve read it’s better to have a higher CCW and less advancement. Also just with my own logical thinking it appears as the better solution. Especially if you are white. It depends on how recessed your maxilla is tho.

can ccw change philtrum angle? but i think ccw is not a good option for me cuz it makes the lower third shorter. i need it to be longer

 

[one job away]

can ccw change philtrum angle? but i think ccw is not a good option for me cuz it makes the lower third shorter. i need it to be longer

You mean the angle from nose to Philtrum? Wel yes it can. The upper lip rests ontop of the upper teeth which are dependent on their slant and their position.

That’s why I want ortho first. It’s a important detail

 

[one job away]

can ccw change philtrum angle? but i think ccw is not a good option for me cuz it makes the lower third shorter. i need it to be longer

Yeah like. I’m not sure how the height is affected for ANYONE. I can only speak for myself since I have a mild class 2. idk about the other bites.
If you fix a class2 the height gets added ontop of the chin basically.

 

[.👽.]

Yeah like. I’m not sure how the height is affected for ANYONE. I can only speak for myself since I have a mild class 2. idk about the other bites.
If you fix a class2 the height gets added ontop of the chin basically.

hmm did u see my xray in pms? isnt my maxilla already protuding? i think neither me or OP still knows what to do

 

[one job away]

hmm did u see my xray in pms? isnt my maxilla already protuding? i think neither me or OP still knows what to do

I mean sure go ahead send me in pm. But ask that stuff your maxfac. It’s not something I can actually properly answer. I didn’t study anything. I’m just repeating what ortho and maxfac told me for my case.

Also like you should know for yourself what you want.

if you think your maxilla is in the right position then advance it only as necessary.

im no doc. What I advise is make yourself a morph that you are satisfied with. Write down problems and areas you are scared about and ask those your macfacs. I’m no one to talk


the question if this or this can happen. Can a philtrum can become longer or shorter. Yes and no it depends

Can the angle decrease or increase ? Yes and no it depends.

To every question you will have those answers


things that are certain with maxilla movement is the nose WILL have more width.

im no doc and no one here is. Don’t rely on users like me. I’m just giving info about my case that might help ppl. If you are scared go to your maxfacs instead of wasting time here asking users who know nothing

 

[lilhorizontal32]

can ccw change philtrum angle? but i think ccw is not a good option for me cuz it makes the lower third shorter. i need it to be longer

You can always lengthen the lower third if CCW has shortened it too much with a genio

 

[one job away]

hmm did u see my xray in pms? isnt my maxilla already protuding? i think neither me or OP still knows what to do

I think it’s more helpful if I write down areas that can change and you ask about those.

These are for the lf1.
lf1 is aesthetically a risky surgery compared to bss

from the front

-Nose width
-Nose angle (upturn)
-Philtrum length
-Lip „spout“ (you can have thinner lips afterward)
-supramental fold less deep
-chin height
-less or more visible cheekbone structure
If you have a nice curve from cheek to lips you might lose that. It might increase that and so on.
- hollow cheeks ( most likely improve tho)

From the side
-well projection
- nose projection
- nose upturn and nose bridge not hooked or too ski sloped depending where you start
- supramental fold depth
- support of upper lip by teeth
- philtrum to nose angle
- chin height

 

[one job away]

You can always lengthen the lower third if CCW has shortened it too much with a genio

Chin wing is much better for that

 

[lilhorizontal32]

Chin wing is much better for that

most surgeons dont do chin wing. also it creates a step-off that looks unaesthetic and is not as customisable as wraparound jaw implants

 

[one job away]

most surgeons dont do chin wing. also it creates a step-off that looks unaesthetic and is not as customisable as wraparound jaw implants

The chin wings I saw are not unaesthetic.

if I had to choose between chin wing or implant I would take chin wing any day