Is abortion okay?

[AWanderer]

Just wanted to see what people on here think because I was debating with a friend on some of Charlie Kirk's political views and he had some interesting points

 

[crazyguy]

Just wanted to see what people on here think because I was debating with a friend on some of Charlie Kirk's political views and he had some interesting points

no, abortion is not ok

 

[AWanderer]

no, abortion is not ok

Never?

 

[kababcel]

no, abortion is not ok

If ur wife gets BBC Ed and she has a baby of his, would you say that?

 

[User28823]

no, killing unborn babies is satanic

 

[AWanderer]

no, killing unborn babies is satanic

How is it satanic

 

[VirginByChoice1]

Just kill the woman, if the baby dies, it was too weak anyways

 

[crazyguy]

Never?

yes, its never ok under any circumstances, even rape

 

[Grilldaddy❤️]

No

 

[BeanCelll]

"Ok" I'd lean slightly towards no, but are we much better with it than without it, for sure.

 

[AWanderer]

yes, its never ok under any circumstances, even rape

Why is it not ok may i ask

 

[User28823]

How is it satanic

 

[AWanderer]

View attachment 4103524

Explain with words maybe?

 

[selfascender]

Yea , but that shouldn’t mean ur allowing ur hole to open 24/7 . Only in bad situations like sexual assault/rape

 

[User28823]

Explain with words maybe?

in the bible, child sacrifice to pagan gods like molech are acts condemned as abominations, spiritually dark, the very enemy of innocence

 

[takethewhitepill]

it is murder. if you support it and think you can justify murder, we can have a good conversation, but anyone who denies that fact is coping hard

 

[AWanderer]

in the bible, child sacrifice to pagan gods like molech are acts condemned as abominations, spiritually dark, the very enemy of innocence

In the bible yes its a sin but that doesnt make it satanic and also its not a sacrifice

 

[Your altered mind]

Ok if the baby is black, jewish, dalit or some mystery meat abomination

 

[AWanderer]

it is murder. if you support it and think you can justify murder, we can have a good conversation, but anyone who denies that fact is coping hard

Would you define murder as the unlawful killing of a living thing?

 

[User28823]

In the bible yes its a sin but that doesnt make it satanic and also its not a sacrifice

to kill is to align with satan, satanic

 

[AWanderer]

to kill is to align with satan, satanic

Show me where it says that

 

[AWanderer]

to kill is to align with satan, satanic

Ok so if I kill an insect or fish to eat is that satanic too?

 

[User28823]

Show me where it says that

john 3:12

 

[crazyguy]

Why is it not ok may i ask

because youre killing a possible future asset to society. the child couldve achieved a lot and changed the world dramatically.
if its rape, the rapist (or rapist's family) will have to pay a lot of money to the child and victim. if the victim doesnt want to take care for it, the child would be brought to a sort of institution

 

[takethewhitepill]

Would you define murder as the unlawful killing of a living thing?

Pretty much, I don't like unlawful as it becomes circular when not looking at the moral law but this definition can work fine as long as neither of us are going to make an appeal to authority.

 

[AWanderer]

john 3:12

"If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?" I dont see anything about abortions or 'sacrifices' and I got this from my own bible

 

[User28823]

"If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?" I dont see anything about abortions or 'sacrifices' and I got this from my own bible

We must not be like Cain; he belonged to the Evil One and murdered his own brother Abel

 

[AWanderer]

because youre killing a possible future asset to society. the child couldve achieved a lot and changed the world dramatically.
if its rape, the rapist (or rapist's family) will have to pay a lot of money to the child and victim. if the victim doesnt want to take care for it, the child would be brought to a sort of institution

Very unlikely that the child will be a possible future asset if the baby was a result of rape as the mother probably wont even be in the correct mental state to raise a child well

 

[AWanderer]

We must not be like Cain; he belonged to the Evil One and murdered his own brother Abel

Still doesnt point towards paganism, sacrifice or abortion

 

[User28823]

Still doesnt point towards paganism, sacrifice or abortion

stop deflecting

to kill is to align with satan, satanic

Show me where it says that

 

[takethewhitepill]

"Ok" I'd lean slightly towards no, but are we much better with it than without it, for sure.

What makes you say this? From a pragmatic standpoint, I often hear the idea that people will abort anyway, just in less safe conditions. I don't know if this is your point, but this still should be interesting to know for your view on the law.

According to CNN, a left wing pro choice source, "In countries with the fewest restrictions, only 1% of abortions were the “least safe” kind from 2010 to 2014. That number jumps to 31% in the most restrictive countries. [...] Abortions happened roughly as frequently in the most restrictive countries as they did in the least restrictive: 37 versus 34 abortions each year for every 1,000 women aged 15 to 44." https://edition.cnn.com/2018/03/21/health/abortion-restriction-laws/index.html

Now, that seems to indicate that it would be better to keep it legal for the health of the woman, right? Well, 99.6% of abortions in the US are elective. Consider that in these countries that are the most restrictive, the ones getting the procedure are not having it done because they want it but rather because they need it. So, the number of elective abortions drops from 99.6% to at most 31%. That is a 3x reduction in unwarranted killing of unborn babies. The number of abortions happening is also not really relevant, as this clearly shows that there are just many more women getting pregnant and therefore the number required is increased to match, the number of abortions per pregnant woman is obviously decreased or it is a matter of some healthcare issue, CNN isn't clear on that here.

Whether you think banning it is the best solution, we should all agree that it is a better solution than being liberal about access to abortion. I do believe there are better solutions possible, but they aren't within the partisan divide.

 

[crazyguy]

Very unlikely that the child will be a possible future asset if the baby was a result of rape as the mother probably wont even be in the correct mental state to raise a child well

and thats why i said that they'd be sent to an institution

 

[Mumbai_HTN]

yes

 

[takethewhitepill]

What makes you say this? From a pragmatic standpoint, I often hear the idea that people will abort anyway, just in less safe conditions. I don't know if this is your point, but this still should be interesting to know for your view on the law.

According to CNN, a left wing pro choice source, "In countries with the fewest restrictions, only 1% of abortions were the “least safe” kind from 2010 to 2014. That number jumps to 31% in the most restrictive countries. [...] Abortions happened roughly as frequently in the most restrictive countries as they did in the least restrictive: 37 versus 34 abortions each year for every 1,000 women aged 15 to 44." https://edition.cnn.com/2018/03/21/health/abortion-restriction-laws/index.html

Now, that seems to indicate that it would be better to keep it legal for the health of the woman, right? Well, 99.6% of abortions in the US are elective. Consider that in these countries that are the most restrictive, the ones getting the procedure are not having it done because they want it but rather because they need it. So, the number of elective abortions drops from 99.6% to at most 31%. That is a 3x reduction in unwarranted killing of unborn babies. The number of abortions happening is also not really relevant, as this clearly shows that there are just many more women getting pregnant and therefore the number required is increased to match, the number of abortions per pregnant woman is obviously decreased or it is a matter of some healthcare issue, CNN isn't clear on that here.

Whether you think banning it is the best solution, we should all agree that it is a better solution than being liberal about access to abortion. I do believe there are better solutions possible, but they aren't within the partisan divide.

@AWanderer I'd like to hear your thoughts on this data as well

 

[AWanderer]

@AWanderer I'd like to hear your thoughts on this data as well

 

[AWanderer]

Joking alr wait lemme read it

 

[AWanderer]

and thats why i said that they'd be sent to an institution

Not always guaranteed btw

 

[brotato78]

Just wanted to see what people on here think because I was debating with a friend on some of Charlie Kirk's political views and he had some interesting points

yes, no kid should have to suffer through life disabeled or as a midget. They have higher suicide rates for a reason.

 

[takethewhitepill]

Still doesnt point towards paganism, sacrifice or abortion

"God wanted to teach and attest that the beginning of children is wonderfully pleasing to Him, in order that we might realize that He upholds and defends His Word when He says: "Be fruitful." He is not hostile to children as we are. ... How great, therefore, the wickedness of human nature is! How many girls there are who prevent conception and kill and expel tender fetuses, although procreation is the work of God!" - Martin Luther. I could of course point you to the didache where it explicitly states that abortion is wrong, that is by the way the teaching of the apostles written down, but I don't need to since Luther provides a biblical argument for why abortion is a sin

 

[crazyguy]

Not always guaranteed btw

it is guaranteed because its a hypothetical situation

 

[subhuman1996]

Nope and it will never be. Abortion goes against God’s words so it is a sin and therefore not okay. Remember u are not killing YOUR child but GOD’s child

 

[AWanderer]

What makes you say this? From a pragmatic standpoint, I often hear the idea that people will abort anyway, just in less safe conditions. I don't know if this is your point, but this still should be interesting to know for your view on the law.

According to CNN, a left wing pro choice source, "In countries with the fewest restrictions, only 1% of abortions were the “least safe” kind from 2010 to 2014. That number jumps to 31% in the most restrictive countries. [...] Abortions happened roughly as frequently in the most restrictive countries as they did in the least restrictive: 37 versus 34 abortions each year for every 1,000 women aged 15 to 44." https://edition.cnn.com/2018/03/21/health/abortion-restriction-laws/index.html

Now, that seems to indicate that it would be better to keep it legal for the health of the woman, right? Well, 99.6% of abortions in the US are elective. Consider that in these countries that are the most restrictive, the ones getting the procedure are not having it done because they want it but rather because they need it. So, the number of elective abortions drops from 99.6% to at most 31%. That is a 3x reduction in unwarranted killing of unborn babies. The number of abortions happening is also not really relevant, as this clearly shows that there are just many more women getting pregnant and therefore the number required is increased to match, the number of abortions per pregnant woman is obviously decreased or it is a matter of some healthcare issue, CNN isn't clear on that here.

Whether you think banning it is the best solution, we should all agree that it is a better solution than being liberal about access to abortion. I do believe there are better solutions possible, but they aren't within the partisan divide.

Still not aborting may also be bad for the child in some cases where the it has a horrible disability

 

[kiing_ronk]

Forced abortion is good

 

[AWanderer]

Nope and it will never be. Abortion goes against God’s words so it is a sin and therefore not okay. Remember u are not killing YOUR child but GOD’s child

By this logic its not ok to sin

 

[Shrek2OnDvD]

Abortion should be allowed as it is ultimately the pregnant woman’s choice. However I’m against late term abortions unless the baby is deformed, or a risk is present to her

 

[AWanderer]

"God wanted to teach and attest that the beginning of children is wonderfully pleasing to Him, in order that we might realize that He upholds and defends His Word when He says: "Be fruitful." He is not hostile to children as we are. ... How great, therefore, the wickedness of human nature is! How many girls there are who prevent conception and kill and expel tender fetuses, although procreation is the work of God!" - Martin Luther. I could of course point you to the didache where it explicitly states that abortion is wrong, that is by the way the teaching of the apostles written down, but I don't need to since Luther provides a biblical argument for why abortion is a sin

Yes abortion is a sin but how many sins have we committed and we still say its ok and we arent perfect and we will always sin

 

[why not me?]

yes

 

[subhuman1996]

By this logic its not ok to sin

Well not exactly u swe we are all sinners by nature (if we were truly sinless we would be on same level as Jesus which none of us could) thats why every time u sin, u just have to ask for forgiveness (by buying sincere obviously) and u will be forgiven THATS HOW MUCH GOD LOVES US

 

[brotato78]

Yes abortion is a sin but how many sins have we committed and we still say its ok and we arent perfect and we will always sin

littterally, mf will post about raping a woman then act all high and righteous and say abortion is bad

 

[takethewhitepill]

Still not aborting may also be bad for the child in some cases where the it has a horrible disability

I would argue that to live and suffer is better than to not live at all. I don't know what country the article said or what they allow it for, but this might be something they do. Would you agree at least that in cases where the child would have been healthy and the woman just doesn't feel like having a kid (99.6% of cases), it would be better if we didn't abort it? People often bring up these fringe possibilities, and while I can give you my argument for why killing disabled people like that would be wrong I don't think I need to if we keep the conversation grounded in what's really happening. More poignantly, if you were to set the laws, and could make as many exceptions as you wanted, would you except entirely voluntary abortions as something that we should allow?