Is antegonial notch ideal?

[LTNUser]

Like I've only seen 2 or 3 guys in my entire life till now with antegonial notch but my question is that is it ideal to have?
Because I feel like the curve around your jaw area just looks so appealing/aesthetic
Just like this

 

[LTNUser]

Opinions @NoHoesinOhio @SomethingIsWrong @Chadeep @thecel ?

 

[LTNUser]

Brutal no reply

 

[gymcel64]

I think most people have an antegonial notch

 

[Deleted member 67937]

No and it's not a big thing

 

[LTNUser]

I think most people have an antegonial notch

I don't think so

 

[gymcel64]

I don't think so

my whole family (we are not all blood related cause divorde and shit) have an antegonial notch, 6 people. it's not a lot but yeah.

 

[LTNUser]

my whole family (we are not all blood related cause divorde and shit) have an antegonial notch, 6 people. it's not a lot but yeah.

That sounds great

 

[Saint Casanova]

Depends on whether it’s caused to due to downwards growth or flaired gonials. If latter then it’s ideal

 

[Deleted member 116489]

Like I've only seen 2 or 3 guys in my entire life till now with antegonial notch but my question is that is it ideal to have?
Because I feel like the curve around your jaw area just looks so appealing/aesthetic
Just like this

Imagine @LTNUser analyzing your face in public then he goes home to write about you in his public diary (.org)
He says you’re one out of 3 guys he’s seen with antegonial notch, you have no idea what that means but you’re flattered anyway.
I wish I could be that guy

 

[NoaA99]

Depends on whether it’s caused to due to downwards growth or flaired gonials. If latter then it’s ideal

You can have flared gonion’s without a prominent a. notch.
But generally you are correct.

 

[Olympus]

Like I've only seen 2 or 3 guys in my entire life till now with antegonial notch but my question is that is it ideal to have?
Because I feel like the curve around your jaw area just looks so appealing/aesthetic
Just like this

Didn’t even realise I have this until now I just thought it was curved jaw

 

[LTNUser]

Depends on whether it’s caused to due to downwards growth or flaired gonials. If latter then it’s ideal

Yes I think latter looks ideal

 

[LTNUser]

Imagine @LTNUser analyzing your face in public then he goes home to write about you in his public diary (.org)
He says you’re one out of 3 guys he’s seen with antegonial notch, you have no idea what that means but you’re flattered anyway.
I wish I could be that guy

School made me Autistic (lack of friends)

 

[EliDKing]

School made me Autistic (lack of friends)

You seem chill. Wanna be my friend? I also have Timmy (my mom uses it as along for autism)

 

[LTNUser]

You seem chill. Wanna be my friend? I also have Timmy (my mom uses it as along for autism)

Yea sure

 

[lurking truecel]

Depends on whether it’s caused to due to downwards growth or flaired gonials. If latter then it’s ideal

Its not the same, one is vertical snd pther is horizontal

 

[LTNUser]

Its not the same, one is vertical snd pther is horizontal

Meaning?

 

[lurking truecel]

Meaning?

Meaning one extends down and is because of downward growth, and the other is muscle bending it to the side.

 

[LTNUser]

Meaning one extends down and is because of downward growth, and the other is muscle bending it to the side.

Enlargement of masseters causes it?

 

[lurking truecel]

Antegonial notch comes from when the mandible gets downturned because of the maxilla extending to much vertically, then the mandible bends and the notch literally gets carved as the mandible grows down(bones are being lost hence why the vertical height of the mandible is lowest at the bending, right pic)

Outward gonion, its not the gonion itself but rather the hole ramus being outward as the left pics shows. The horizontal out turn at the gonial is just muscle insertion, but doesnt really mean much

 

[LTNUser]

Antegonial notch

Have you seen anybody with antegonial notch with tall ramus?

 

[Saint Casanova]

View attachment 3522079View attachment 3522081
Antegonial notch comes from when the mandible gets downturned because of the maxilla extending to much vertically, then the mandible bends and the notch literally gets carved as the mandible grows down(bones are being lost hence why the vertical height of the mandible is lowest at the bending, right pic)

Outward gonion, its not the gonion itself but rather the hole ramus being outward as the left pics shows. The horizontal out turn at the gonial is just muscle insertion, but doesnt really mean much

Does Hexum have the former or latter ?

 

[LTNUser]

Does Hexum have the former or latter ?
View attachment 3522113

Former

 

[vevcred]

Looks better flat

 

[lurking truecel]

Does Hexum have the former or latter ?
View attachment 3522113

A mix of both but mostly the latter

 

[LTNUser]

Looks better flat

Why do you think so

 

[lurking truecel]

Does Hexum have the former or latter ?
View attachment 3522113

Here is s guy from the forum who have both (from s old thread)

 

[LTNUser]

View attachment 3522132View attachment 3522133
Here is s guy from the forum who have both (from s old thread)

Looks great

 

[LTNUser]

No. It's just the ramus extending over the mandible body and growth underneath the mental protuberance

Masseters hypertrophy doesn't cause it?

 

[LTNUser]

It's caused by growth of the ramus, which is almost entirely genetic

So there's no other way to get the notch

 

[LTNUser]

Implants

But I've seen one guy who has medium ramus but still he got notch
How

 

[LTNUser]

Because the rest of the mandible simply isn't big.
View attachment 3522163
See this, this should explain it.
Left has the notch because additional growth under the chin and ramus, right has much more gracile development but if you disregard these additional bone deposits, the mandible body is almost the same.

What do you think about this @lurking truecel

 

[lurking truecel]

No. It's just the ramus extending over the mandible body and growth underneath the mental protuberance

Antegonial notch can only come from downward growth, it doesnt exsist otherwise. But it can look like someone has one because of masseter muscles without someone having it skeletally

 

[LTNUser]

Antegonial notch can only come from downward growth, it doesnt exsist otherwise. But it can look like someone has one because of masseter muscles without someone having it skeletally

I had one question
What causes the masseter striations to show even when ur not that lean?

 

[lurking truecel]

I had one question
What causes the masseter striations to show even when ur not that lean?

The size of the muscle, and the muscles itself can vary in form, insertions just like any other muscle. Looking at bone level is many times misleading, even tho bigger bones ofc is better ä. But soft tissue place a significant part. The width of the maseter muscles varys from 1,5 cm to 3 cm. So yes much of width just comes from masseters

 

[LTNUser]

The size of the muscle, and the muscles itself can vary in form, insertions just like any other muscle. Looking at bone level is many times misleading, even tho bigger bones ofc is better ä. But soft tissue place a significant part. The width of the maseter muscles varys from 1,5 cm to 3 cm. So yes much of width just comes from masseters

Damn

 

[lurking truecel]

It exists when the ramus and chin have enough bone deposition to contrast that way with the mandible body, there's no genetic definition that all of the jaw is to be a 90 degree straight line when properly developed/not downgrown. The ramus, chin and mandible body are three independent mediums.

Show me one ape or old pic of a skull with antegonial notch. It exisit only because of vertical down growth of the maxilla. Just as the pic you show the pattern is the same, the least amount of vertical height at the notch and then it becomes greater all the way to the chin. Typical downward growth pattern. But in extreme cases they have no vertical height at the notch leading to no posterior facial height but as you get closer to the chin the height increases because of the growth pattern. Its a clear pattern no matter how small or large the downward growth is

 

[LTNUser]

Woaw dude thanks for the reps @vevcred2_0

 

[lurking truecel]

There's simply no way elongation of the midface/occlusal plane lengthening would erode bone at the notch. Clearly shown by the fact that there exist mandibles that are "downgrown" or have a an overly obtuse angle, yet don't show any notch.
You don't have any evidence to show that "downgrowth" is unintented, or simply just the intended genetic design of the mandible body.
I don't believe in hominids and don't take any skull finding reportedly dated past 10000 years ago seriously, but I'll accept your proposition.
View attachment 3522220
An australopithecine jaw (top left) showing "downgrowth pattern", there even seems to be a slight notch, but it's not defined because the ramus isn't developed enough to extend over the rest of the mandible body.
View attachment 3522224
Modern human jaw showing downgrowth, no notch because of a lack of ramus/gonion development.

View attachment 3522233
Polynesian hg skull with zero vertical elongation but lacking a right angle because of a lack of ramus development.

These cases should prove my point enough. The reason you can't find "ancient" skulls with an antegonial notch is because they don't have the ramal/gonial bone deposition, as well as the chin development to have them contrast in that way with the mandibular body. So no, the notch isn't there because downgrowth would somehow erode bone. You can find these skulls as "downgrown", goes without saying.

View attachment 3522255

It doesnt necessarily erode bone but the movement in bone by the bending probably makes that area insufficient to grow bone during that time( bones untill late age is litteraly bendable). Which is why the vertical height is lacking. And i am not saying its unintended, it might aswell be some sort of genetic thing that is intended and is obv common among humans today but its generally a bad thing because almost all cases of severe jaw defiency which leads to sleep apnea and tmj disorders are having severe downward growth which leads to a severe antegonial notch all the time because thats the pattern.