is it worth getting lean at only 79kg?

[Romeo1111]

im 188cm my goal is 85 kg, shoud i go for 85kg before i try to get lean or should i get lean now

 

[noodlelover]

That depends on your body fat percentage and how much muscle mass you have.

But in general you should be doing bulk cut cycles you're entire life. So bulk to 13% bf, do a slow cut to 10% bf repeat.

 

[Deleted member 11770]

You're around 15% bf right now, so for maximum face gains, get down to 12% (73kg).

It's your decision, but you should know, that especially at your height face > body.

Once you get lean, you can bulk carefully without gaining all the weight back. You don't need to get fat to build muscle it's a fucking meme.

 

[Romeo1111]

You're around 15% bf right now, so for maximum face gains, get down to 12% (73kg).

It's your decision, but you should know, that especially at your height face > body.

Once you get lean, you can bulk carefully without gaining all the weight back. You don't need to get fat to build muscle it's a fucking meme.

think i will try to get a bit lean in that case thanks

 

[Deleted member 14166]

You're around 15% bf right now, so for maximum face gains, get down to 12% (73kg).

It's your decision, but you should know, that especially at your height face > body.

Once you get lean, you can bulk carefully without gaining all the weight back. You don't need to get fat to build muscle it's a fucking meme.

op what he said

 

[Cristiano88]

im 188cm my goal is 85 kg, shoud i go for 85kg before i try to get lean or should i get lean now

You happen to be the same height as me, exactly.
For me leanness comes once i get to 72kg and below. Because i have poor bone structure especially fwd growth and because i am pretty narrow in the shoulders.
So it depends.
But i would get to 72-73 if i were you and see if you like it.

 

[Phillybeard1996]

That depends on your body fat percentage and how much muscle mass you have.

But in general you should be doing bulk cut cycles you're entire life. So bulk to 13% bf, do a slow cut to 10% bf repeat.

How can you tell if you are 13 percent?

 

[noodlelover]

How can you tell if you are 13 percent?

There's a lot of different ways to measure fat percentage such as bathroom scales that measure it with electrical impulse, dexa scan, and that pinching device but they are all too inaccurate to be useful, except for the too expensive stuff.

What I do now, is I know what I look like at different weights and weigh myself everyday to make sure I'm going in the right direction at a good speed (Loosing more than 2lbs a week is not optimal for muscle retention and if you gain more than like 1lb a week you are going to get fat, you can't put on muscle that fast).

Your weight will vary by around 5 lbs, up and down day to day, which is why it's best to measure everyday (Not once a week) and be able to look at a graph to see the general direction. If you measure only once a week, you won't have any idea which direction your weight is moving in until it's like a month too late and you put on 10 lbs of fat, that will take months to work off while you loose muscle mass from the extra cutt.

You'll also get a good idea of which weights are your "fat" weight, and which weights are your cut weight, of when you need to look at yourself carefully and determine if it's time to cut again, or bulk again. For example, when I hit 190 lbs, I would need to re-evaluate in the mirror with this image, to see if I'm cut enough to start another bulk, because I know I was fairly lean last time I hit 190 lbs and I've put on a decent amount of muscle since then.

Every one stores fat in different places but this picture is probably the most accurate affordable and time efficient measurement. You just look at it and see which one you are.

Start getting towards the 15% picture and it's time to cut (BEFORE you look like that). If you want to spend more time you can measure your waist but I think that's unnecessary. But you can look up unhealthy waist measurements, and know that if you are not optimally healthy women are hardwired to see that as disgusting.

 

[Phillybeard1996]

There's a lot of different ways to measure fat percentage such as bathroom scales that measure it with electrical impulse, dexa scan, and that pinching device but they are all too inaccurate to be useful, except for the too expensive stuff.

What I do now, is I know what I look like at different weights and weigh myself everyday to make sure I'm going in the right direction at a good speed (Loosing more than 2lbs a week is not optimal for muscle retention and if you gain more than like 1lb a week you are going to get fat, you can't put on muscle that fast).

Your weight will vary by around 5 lbs, up and down day to day, which is why it's best to measure everyday (Not once a week) and be able to look at a graph to see the general direction. If you measure only once a week, you won't have any idea which direction your weight is moving in until it's like a month too late and you put on 10 lbs of fat, that will take months to work off while you loose muscle mass from the extra cutt.

You'll also get a good idea of which weights are your "fat" weight, and which weights are your cut weight, of when you need to look at yourself carefully and determine if it's time to cut again, or bulk again. For example, when I hit 190 lbs, I would need to re-evaluate in the mirror with this image, to see if I'm cut enough to start another bulk, because I know I was fairly lean last time I hit 190 lbs and I've put on a decent amount of muscle since then.

Every one stores fat in different places but this picture is probably the most accurate affordable and time efficient measurement. You just look at it and see which one you are.

Start getting towards the 15% picture and it's time to cut (BEFORE you look like that). If you want to spend more time you can measure your waist but I think that's unnecessary. But you can look up unhealthy waist measurements, and know that if you are not optimally healthy women are hardwired to see that as disgusting.

10-20 percent bodyyfat is medically healthy

 

[noodlelover]

10-20 percent bodyyfat is medically healthy

There's a correlation. Belly fat causes series health issues, so even if you're at 15% with belly fat you are causing health problems for yourself, and will be less attractive to women.

Evaluated abdominal obesity reflects metabolic differences in visceral fat known to influence systemic inflammation.

Obesity, waist size and prevalence of current asthma in the California Teachers Study cohort - PubMed

This study confirms the association between excess weight and asthma severity and prevalence, and showed that a large waist was associated with increased asthma prevalence even among women considered to have normal body weight.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I think women are more attracted to 10% because when your face looks to be 10% bodyfat, there's a greater possibility that you don't have bellyfat which causes all kinds of health problems (caused by the systemic inflammation in your body). But obviously women are more attracted to guys without bellyfat who are shirtless generally.

And by no bellyfat I know there's technically always a little fat on your belly, I just mean it doesn't protrude.

 

[Phillybeard1996]

There's a correlation. Belly fat causes series health issues, so even if you're at 15% with belly fat you are causing health problems for yourself, and will be less attractive to women.

Evaluated abdominal obesity reflects metabolic differences in visceral fat known to influence systemic inflammation.

Obesity, waist size and prevalence of current asthma in the California Teachers Study cohort - PubMed

This study confirms the association between excess weight and asthma severity and prevalence, and showed that a large waist was associated with increased asthma prevalence even among women considered to have normal body weight.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I think women are more attracted to 10% because when your face looks to be 10% bodyfat, there's a greater possibility that you don't have bellyfat which causes all kinds of health problems (caused by the systemic inflammation in your body). But obviously women are more attracted to guys without bellyfat who are shirtless generally.

And by no bellyfat I know there's technically always a little fat on your belly, I just mean it doesn't protrude.

Well from what I hear doctors say the healthiest range to be ideal is 10-15 but 10-20 is still healthy

 

[Phillybeard1996]

There's a correlation. Belly fat causes series health issues, so even if you're at 15% with belly fat you are causing health problems for yourself, and will be less attractive to women.

Evaluated abdominal obesity reflects metabolic differences in visceral fat known to influence systemic inflammation.

Obesity, waist size and prevalence of current asthma in the California Teachers Study cohort - PubMed

This study confirms the association between excess weight and asthma severity and prevalence, and showed that a large waist was associated with increased asthma prevalence even among women considered to have normal body weight.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I think women are more attracted to 10% because when your face looks to be 10% bodyfat, there's a greater possibility that you don't have bellyfat which causes all kinds of health problems (caused by the systemic inflammation in your body). But obviously women are more attracted to guys without bellyfat who are shirtless generally.

And by no bellyfat I know there's technically always a little fat on your belly, I just mean it doesn't protrude.

I don't see any studies that say 10 percent is healthier than 15

 

[Yellowskies]

im 188cm my goal is 85 kg, shoud i go for 85kg before i try to get lean or should i get lean now

this is the way

get lean first, never ever bulk if you are not cut

nothing else matters

 

[noodlelover]

I don't see any studies that say 10 percent is healthier than 15

It's because most guys are too fat for there to be enough people to study 10% bodyfat men with any statistically significance.

Longitudinally evaluated the relationship between body fat percentage and the risk for type 2 diabetes mellitus: Korean Genome and Epidemiology Study (KoGES)

Background Body fat plays the significant role in maintaining glucose homeostasis. However, it is not fully identified how body fat percentage (BF%) has an impact on the development of type 2 diabetes mellitus (T2DM). Thus, this study was to evaluate the incidental risk for T2DM according to BF%...

eje.bioscientifica.com

Study above has five thousand Korean adults (a country that's not as fat and disgusting as most western countries), yet they still only have enough data for 14.7 +- 2.0 percent bodyfat to be their lowest body fat group.

But I graphed out the Quintile's from the above study so you can visually see the trend:

Notice the slope of the line.

So now let's take a look at a sample from the cucked information echo system that can be found as one of the top ranking pages in a web search of our low IQ virtue signaling internet.

Ideal Body Fat Percentage: For Men and Women

Calculating body fat percentage isn’t always completely accurate, and there are many methods to try. We’ll talk about the healthy range for men and women, and the limitations.

www.healthline.com

This website uses the below source for the "healthy" body fat percentage:

Your Body Fat Percentage: What Does It Mean? | Winchester Hospital

For age 20 to 39 males, it recommends the healthy range of body fat as 8% to 19%. Their source "A study in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition". Do they mention the study name, or link it? No, they do not, and I could not find it either.

How about webmd:

What Is Body Composition?

Learn what body composition is, including how it’s different than body mass index, how it can help you avoid health problems, and more.

www.webmd.com

They say for men, 18%-25% is "acceptable", 6%-17% is "athletes" and "fitness", and 2%-4% is essential fats. Their source is the "American Council on Exercise". They do not link source.

What 4 Body Fat Percentage Ranges Look Like

Here’s the real difference between a guy with 5%, 9%, and 14%, and 20% body fat—along with how he got that body fat percentage.

www.mensjournal.com

MensJournal also Cited the same thing, citing only the rumor that the "American Council on Exercise" said this without a specific source.

So... it's ok... I can do some digging. What is the American Council on Exercise's source, you might ask? I found it...

Fitness & Healthy Lifestyle Blog | ACE

Get inspired with ACE's fitness & healthy lifestyle blog. Read about healthy eating tips, science-based exercises, & more!

www.acefitness.org

This is their website and this is where those numbers are mentioned. Natalie Digate Muth wrote this article on body fat percentage for the American council on exercise. And what is her source you might ask?

No source given. She pulled the numbers out of her fucking asshole and every website on the cuckweb has been repeating them ever since. And not just that, they've been changing it as it's repeated.

Webmd changed her "average" category that she fucking made up to "acceptable" to make fat fucks feel better about themselves.

And this is just one example. The fucking internet is one giant circle jerk of misinformation to make the average fat lazy entitled fuck feel better about themselves.

So... anyways... let's ignore "The American council on exercise's bullshit and look at another actual study...

https://www.homscales.com/sites/default/files/attachments/Metabolic%20Syndrome%20Risk.pdf

This one they used logistical regression models to come up with actual equations for metabolic syndrome risk. Notice the equations are just a linear exponential curve. Meaning there is no "minimum" healthy body fat in the equations, less body fat means less health risk according to this study.

But we "know" there's a minimum amount of fat the body needs right? Maybe there's lower risks until you get to some minimum and then the risks flip, so figuring out the minimum and being a little above it, would be our best guess for optimal health given the equations from the above study.

So let's go off on the internet looking for a minimum body fat percentage.

Lowest Possible Body Fat Percentage | Livestrong.com

While having a high percentage of body fat can contribute to many chronic diseases, not having enough body fat can be just as dangerous.

www.livestrong.com

This article recommends 2%-5% for men. Their source... wait for it...

the American Council on Exercise! The fuckers that made up the ideal body fat percentages without sources, or meta analysis, just pulling those numbers right out of their fucking ass holes. And the 2%-5% minimum body fat for men is from the same made up numbers.

So... what the fuck is the American Council on Exercise, and why are they making up so much bullshit being spread all around the internet to make fat fuckers feel good about themselves?

American Council on Exercise - San Diego, California, USA : NCHPAD - Building Inclusive Communities

Details about American Council on Exercise located in San Diego, California, USA - 92123 for people with disabilities and health conditions.

www.nchpad.org

They're a nonprofit. Not even a government institution. So how do these disinformation spinning fuckers make money you might ask?

What Is an ACE Certified Personal Trainer and How Much Can One Make?

Becoming an ACE certified personal trainer is different from becoming a personal trainer in general because of the clout ACE has among the fitness community.

www.certifystrong.com

By "Certifying" personal trainers. An organization that literally spits out made up bullshit is certifying personal trainers across the country. I'm never getting a personal trainer. Every fucking industry related to health is like this, a disinformation fountain of made up bullshit feeding an entire industries; optometry, skincare, medical doctors, the supplement industry... not saying there's nothing legit in these industries but it's mostly disinformation designed to get you hooked on products that don't fix your problem but keep you in perpetual cycle of brokenness, pisses me off so much.

So yah, all we can say from the data is that more body fat means higher risk of health problems, and we have no reason to believe there is any minimum healthy body fat percentage. This aligns with calorie restriction studies across animals which increase lifespan. There is not starving to death, don't starve to death, but other than that be as lean as you can be to maximize health and look good.

(If you find any studies that suggest anything else, please post. I'd love to take a look at them)