Is MSE a cope?

[Deleted member 2933]

Tbh, any ascension via MSE?

 

[Deleted member 685]

I have yet to see anyone get ascended by it. If you have a low FWHR you are better off committing suicide

 

[Deleted member 2486]

it apparently works but as again

it doesnt rly do shit in the grand scheme of things, so cope

 

[Chadelite]

it apparently works but as again

it doesnt rly do shit in the grand scheme of things, so cope

how did ur mouth change when u lost weight?

 

[needsolution]

Cope if u expect huge gain.

Legit if u want to get better base for further looksmaxxing. My bizygomatic is low so for me its lifefuel.

 

[maxmendietta]

This is how cycle shit shows around here.
First it gets praised (mse and ronald eads results for example). Then some greycel shows around spamming stupid shit about how "x thing (in this case mse) doesn't work/is cope/studies listing an subject who got shit results."
Then everyone just falls for this instead of doing their own research.
MSE is the most legit non surgical face looksmax you can do. With facepuller it can almost be a guaranteed semi ascension.
Of course as always you need a good facial base.

 

[Deleted member 2661]

Maybe, if you are a Casey Neistatcel

 

[FatJattMofo]

Never. Mouth width is too important

 

[GetThatBread]

MSDO + MSE should yield you results like this. I’m assuming it has to be aggressive expansion tho. >10mm

 

[Deleted member 2486]

how did ur mouth change when u lost weight?

became wider and more protruding

 

[Chadelite]

became wider and more protruding

thx

MSDO + MSE should yield you results like this. I’m assuming it has to be aggressive expansion tho. >10mm

bro it can't do that

nothing can as far as i know - maybe lefort 4

the guy on the right is a result of high prenatal testosterone

the left is low prenatal t

which controls your fwhr

genetics is no 1 still

if u have a long midface

i don't think anything can help

but research might say otherwise

 

[needsolution]

thx

bro it can't do that

nothing can as far as i know - maybe lefort 4

the guy on the right is a result of high prenatal testosterone

the left is low prenatal t

which controls your fwhr

genetics is no 1 still

if u have a long midface

i don't think anything can help

but research might say otherwise

Long midface can be fixed.

 

[Chadelite]

Long midface can be fixed.

u sure

how long is a long midface to you?

 

[needsolution]

u sure

how long is a long midface to you?

Depends. Would you say Zayn Malik have long midface?

 

[Kade]

Depends. Would you say Zayn Malik have long midface?
View attachment 220306

No, maybe 5% longer than average but not to any meaningful degree

 

[Slyfex8]

MSDO + MSE should yield you results like this. I’m assuming it has to be aggressive expansion tho. >10mm

Jfl if you think it will change your phenotype like that. Expanding the maxilla actually flang the zygos but for actual face width, it's probably very limited. Look at Ronald Ead, after 12mm expansion his face doesn't even looks noticeably wider, his zygos are now flanged that said.

 

[needsolution]

No, maybe 5% longer than average but not to any meaningful degree

His midface ratio is around 0.92 so here it would be considered long.
Now for example

Matthew Pollock whose midface ratio is above 1.0. Comparing him and Zayn most people would say that Pollock has longer face.
Long face isnt only about ratio. Its about harmony too. Wider nose, wider mouth can make your face look shorter. Fwhr, proportions of all thirds, actual mid third lenght... This everything plays big role.


@Chadelite with LF2 + lip lift you can shorten your midface by like 5mm

 

[Chadelite]

His midface ratio is around 0.92 so here it would be considered long.
Now for example View attachment 220323
Matthew Pollock whose midface ratio is above 1.0. Comparing him and Zayn most people would say that Pollock has longer face.
Long face isnt only about ratio. Its about harmony too. Wider nose, wider mouth can make your face look shorter. Fwhr, proportions of all thirds, actual mid third lenght... This everything plays big role.


@Chadelite with LF2 + lip lift you can shorten your midface by like 5mm

kl

i have a short wide face anyways tho

Jfl if you think it will change your phenotype like that. Expanding the maxilla actually flang the zygos but for actual face width, it's probably very limited. Look at Ronald Ead, after 12mm expansion his face doesn't even looks noticeably wider, his zygos are now flanged that said.

exactly

pre natal t

Depends. Would you say Zayn Malik have long midface?
View attachment 220306

a little

 

[GetThatBread]

Jfl if you think it will change your phenotype like that. Expanding the maxilla actually flang the zygos but for actual face width, it's probably very limited. Look at Ronald Ead, after 12mm expansion his face doesn't even looks noticeably wider, his zygos are now flanged that said.

I think this will help long midfacecels to the utmost degree and Ron didn’t get MSDO. What about 12MM lateral expansion on the upper and lower jaw + FacePulling for Sagittal expansion? You’re right it depends on your phenotype but my phenotype is tall light skin mulatto pretty boy. I’m trying to be high T wide faced mulatto like Ruben Loftus-Cheek

 

[Slyfex8]

I think this will help long midfacecels to the utmost degree and Ron didn’t get MSDO. What about 12MM lateral expansion on the upper and lower jaw + FacePulling for Sagittal expansion? You’re right it depends on your phenotype but my phenotype is tall light skin mulatto pretty boy. I’m trying to be high T wide faced mulatto like Ruben Loftus-Cheek

Will not work to change your face phenotype as you want, the most effective midface shortener would be, if your nose tip is kinda downturned to upturn it by making the paranasal area fuller, making the nose smaller at the same time. Facepulling device with MSE should do this. Tbh on some people 1mm upper jaw advancement literally upturned the nose, yes, 1mm.

 

[Deleted member 4209]

sounds like it would work for fwhr cels like me

 

[Ogmanman]

Will not work to change your face phenotype as you want, the most effective midface shortener would be, if your nose tip is kinda downturned to upturn it by making the paranasal area fuller, making the nose smaller at the same time. Facepulling device with MSE should do this. Tbh on some people 1mm upper jaw advancement literally upturned the nose, yes, 1mm.

Midface slightly shortens if you widen the maxilla also

 

[wagbox]

Tbh, any ascension via MSE?

It's not cope.

 

[Deleted member 3202]

it apparently works but as again

it doesnt rly do shit in the grand scheme of things, so cope

Doesn't it change your palatal width, mouth width, cheekbone width, IPD and even jaw width (maybe it increases jaw width?)? How is that cope? That seems like several major improvements.

 

[Golden Glass]

it apparently works but as again

it doesnt rly do shit in the grand scheme of things, so cope

Doesn't it change your palatal width, mouth width, cheekbone width, IPD and even jaw width (maybe it increases jaw width?)? How is that cope? That seems like several major improvements.

Contrariancowboy, as per

Wouldn’t be surprised if he said something like this

“Doesn’t rly do shit in the grand scheme of things, so cope” just to get attention and controversy.

In all seriousness, for non deformed people, NO single procedure will change things in the “grand scheme” to the degree of boosting up your PSL by like .5-1.0.

In that vein, MSE is cope if it’s ALL you want to do looksmaxing, facial bone structure-wise. If you plan on getting something like MSDO or hyrax expansion for lower and double jaw surgery with it, and then you get *good* fillers or implants to further augment your key areas (cheekbones, under eyes, jaw/chin, possibly browridge, basically wherever relevant to you),and address any other problems you have (nose, ears, eyelids) you can expect a dramatic transformation, the kind that most people would consider “ascension”, and the kind that needed something like MSE to be a first step to establish a “base” to work off.

Anyone who expects to look like a model after MSE alone is coping, but only an idiot would feel he’s making some sort of valuable statement by pointing that out. Like I said though, it’s likely the best looksmaxing base to work off.

 

[curryslayerordeath]

Midface slightly shortens if you widen the maxilla also
View attachment 220533

whats this pic from/about?

 

[Ogmanman]

whats this pic from/about?

Effects of widening maxilla through palate expansion and mse look at all the subtle differences That happened which overall improved the face greatly

 

[curryslayerordeath]

Effects of widening maxilla through palate expansion and mse look at all the subtle differences That happened which overall improved the face greatly

damn thats very subtly impressive. do u have the paper/simulation that its from?

 

[Cope]

Contrariancowboy, as per

In all seriousness, MSE is cope if it’s ALL you want to do looksmaxing, facial bone structure-wise. If you plan on getting something like MSDO or hyrax expansion for lower and double jaw surgery with it, and then you get *good* fillers or implants to further augment your key areas (cheekbones, under eyes, jaw/chin, possibly browridge, basically wherever relevant to you),and address any other problems you have (nose, ears, eyelids) you can expect a dramatic transformation, the kind that most people would consider “ascension”, and the kind that needed something like MSE to be a first step to establish a base to work off.

Ye, I wouldn't consider getting implants or fillers until after MSE.

 

[JustTrynaGrow]

Contrariancowboy, as per

Wouldn’t be surprised if he said something like this
View attachment 226342View attachment 226343
View attachment 226320
“Doesn’t rly do shit in the grand scheme of things, so cope” just to get attention and controversy.

In all seriousness, for non deformed people, NO single procedure will change things in the “grand scheme” to the degree of boosting up your PSL by like .5-1.0.

In that vein, MSE is cope if it’s ALL you want to do looksmaxing, facial bone structure-wise. If you plan on getting something like MSDO or hyrax expansion for lower and double jaw surgery with it, and then you get *good* fillers or implants to further augment your key areas (cheekbones, under eyes, jaw/chin, possibly browridge, basically wherever relevant to you),and address any other problems you have (nose, ears, eyelids) you can expect a dramatic transformation, the kind that most people would consider “ascension”, and the kind that needed something like MSE to be a first step to establish a “base” to work off.

Anyone who expects to look like a model after MSE alone is coping, but only an idiot would feel he’s making some sort of valuable statement by pointing that out. Like I said though, it’s likely the best looksmaxing base to work off.

View attachment 226324
View attachment 226325

Does mse push your cheekbones up?
I generally get a pretty good rating dispite having terrible under eye support And ressesed cheekbones. getting them into a better spot could make the difference tbh

 

[Golden Glass]

Does mse push your cheekbones up?
I generally get a pretty good rating dispite having terrible under eye support And ressesed cheekbones. getting them into a better spot could make the difference tbh

Up? Potentially...but only if you hardmewed or did some sort of facepulling/pushing protocol after you get MSE and the sutures across the midface are weakened. MSE on its own would only seem to create lateral growth.

 

[OCDMaxxing]

not cope

 

[Deleted member 1751]

People have had good results with Mse right

 

[Golden Glass]

People have had good results with Mse right

So far only person on this forum that’s gotten it is @varbrah and he liked his results, but again, MSE should be looked at as the best first step and base for looksmaxing, not a one fell swoop that will make a PSL 4 a PSL 6, or even 5 likely.

 

[varbrah]

So far only person on this forum that’s gotten it is @varbrah and he liked his results, but again, MSE should be looked at as the best first step and base for looksmaxing, not a one fell swoop that will make a PSL 4 a PSL 6, or even 5 likely.

You’ve got it reversed imo in that a ‘base’ needs to already exist in the first place in order for looksmaxing to be effective. The ‘base’ is genetic.

MSE can also definitely be considered a one fell swoop type of tool assuming a narrow maxilla is one of your major issues and your genetically endowed features are good to begin with. The latter is most important since any skeletal abnormalities will obscure and overshadow any positive soft tissue (or other) traits.

I already had what normies would describe as ‘striking’ features (good eye shape, good high contrast coloring, high cheekbones, good proportions/harmony, browridge etc) pre-MSE, but was objectively not-GL because of my lower jaw width in relation to my midface (resulting in looking bloatmaxed with chipmunk cheeks), midfacial flatness/lack of volume, tired appearance due to sleep apnea, and other negative factors. MSE was more or less a silver bullet in that it largely took care of most of these issues. Only thing I could use more of now is a bit more forward growth.

So basically, correcting deficiencies/deformities is most important, MSE won’t help you unless you have one and how much of a difference it ends up making depends on your phenotype.

 

[needsolution]

So far only person on this forum that’s gotten it is @varbrah and he liked his results, but again, MSE should be looked at as the best first step and base for looksmaxing, not a one fell swoop that will make a PSL 4 a PSL 6, or even 5 likely.

MSE alone can make u max 0.5point looking better. Just because wider mouth which can really make face. Dont think that few mm wider zygos can make some noticable difference. All about mouth width and potential ipd gain

 

[Deleted member 3990]

Cope if u expect huge gain.

Legit if u want to get better base for further looksmaxxing. My bizygomatic is low so for me its lifefuel.

anterior or posterior bizygomatic ?

 

[needsolution]

anterior or posterior bizygomatic ?

Idk, my neurocranium is wider than lower face. My bizygomatic is 12x mm max

 

[Luke LLL]

thx

bro it can't do that

nothing can as far as i know - maybe lefort 4

the guy on the right is a result of high prenatal testosterone

the left is low prenatal t

which controls your fwhr

genetics is no 1 still

if u have a long midface

i don't think anything can help

but research might say otherwise

Studies show that androgens don’t affect facial development. This would mean that all girls would have destroyed faces because any man has higher t then any woman.

 

[Chadelite]

Studies show that androgens don’t affect facial development. This would mean that all girls would have destroyed faces because any man has higher t then any woman.

I mean pre natal t

determines fwhr

that is proven

low set eyebrows is pre natal t

 

[Golden Glass]

You’ve got it reversed imo in that a ‘base’ needs to already exist in the first place in order for looksmaxing to be effective. The ‘base’ is genetic.

MSE can also definitely be considered a one fell swoop type of tool assuming a narrow maxilla is one of your major issues and your genetically endowed features are good to begin with. The latter is most important since any skeletal abnormalities will obscure and overshadow any positive soft tissue (or other) traits.

I already had what normies would describe as ‘striking’ features (good eye shape, good high contrast coloring, high cheekbones, good proportions/harmony, browridge etc) pre-MSE, but was objectively not-GL because of my lower jaw width in relation to my midface (resulting in looking bloatmaxed with chipmunk cheeks), midfacial flatness/lack of volume, tired appearance due to sleep apnea, and other negative factors. MSE was more or less a silver bullet in that it largely took care of most of these issues. Only thing I could use more of now is a bit more forward growth.

So basically, correcting deficiencies/deformities is most important, MSE won’t help you unless you have one and how much of a difference it ends up making depends on your phenotype.

Im talking about making a base for someone who’s already got the hand of cards they’re dealt by fate (their genes). And I disagree with the idea that genes (barring some genetic deformity) would limit anyone from becoming facially good looking, especially if they got very exhaustive dentofacial therapy/orthotropics as a child. Things like narrow IPD being purely genetic and unfixable are easily disproven. I’ll make a thread about genes vs environment and be sure to tag you so you get a better idea as to what I mean.

 

[6ft8InTheNetherlands]

MSE alone can make u max 0.5point looking better. Just because wider mouth which can really make face. Dont think that few mm wider zygos can make some noticable difference. All about mouth width and potential ipd gain

my mouth needs width, is this the safest procedure to increase width?

 

[needsolution]

my mouth needs width, is this the safest procedure to increase width?

I would say the best possible.

 

[Golden Glass]

MSE alone can make u max 0.5point looking better. Just because wider mouth which can really make face. Dont think that few mm wider zygos can make some noticable difference. All about mouth width and potential ipd gain

Disagree with a few mm wider zygos not making a difference. For some people that’s all they’d need to get an ogee curve, hell, people like Saiyan got a few mm of implants or fillers just in the zygo region alone.

Again though, the younger you are for MSE, the better.

 

[needsolution]

Disagree with a few mm wider zygos not making a difference. For some people that’s all they’d need to get an ogee curve, hell, people like Saiyan got a few mm of implants or fillers just in the zygo region alone.

Again though, the younger you are for MSE, the better.

I left MSE idea till my 21. I want to see jow my fully developed face will look like before i will start to customize it.

 

[Golden Glass]

I left MSE idea till my 21. I want to see jow my fully developed face will look like before i will start to customize it.

That’s not a bad age at all

 

[needsolution]

That’s not a bad age at all

Well, i guess my face wont change a lot after 21 (18 11/12 rn). The whole thing with MSE is that this doesnt increase pfl which for me is most important feature. I will wait, better to do it slower in smart way than lose potential gain.

 

[GetThatBread]

Depends on the person using it, if you have a narrow midface it can help quite a lot if you go over a centimeter, you just have to pray the suture splits. After that you can bone borne FacePull to pull the maxilla forward and upward

 

[Golden Glass]

Well, i guess my face wont change a lot after 21 (18 11/12 rn). The whole thing with MSE is that this doesnt increase pfl which for me is most important feature. I will wait, better to do it slower in smart way than lose potential gain.

There’s no reason to believe you’ll lose potential gains from MSE (likely on the contrary) but waiting until you’re 21 isn’t a big deal.

IF someone here had the opportunity to get MSE done at like 14-15, and decided to wait til they were 21, I’d say that would likely be a dumb choice

 

[varbrah]

And I disagree with the idea that genes (barring some genetic deformity) would limit anyone from becoming facially good looking

There’s a spectrum of attractiveness is all I’m saying. Sure most people can look ‘regular’ good looking.