Discussion Is muscle growth all testosterone or other factors?

Keengo

Keengo

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We all know that stuff is simplified here for the lolz and the low IQs.

But is there any evidence testosterone blood levels are solely the driver of muscle?

I read a story about a guy who had low T, high GH, hypothyroidism and was massively overweight and he had large muscles too. Apparently high GH like from acromegaly can help with muscle tissue growth but is not correlated with higher T levels -- if anything higher estrogen.

Something related to certain conditions or tendencies which can drive muscle tissue or otherwise growth in the body besides just testosterone alone?

I mean some say they even make gains on DHT based roids when we all know those are not chemically similar to T.

Same also with the bulkers and certain other drugs like slin, SARMs, AIs, myostatin deficiency, different health factors, etc.

Those MFers with myostatin deficiency look swole and stacked AF and they have the same test level averages as probably some skinnyfatcels on here.

I am not convinced testosterone alone is the sole driver of everyone and their physique levels.

Some guys go on test (like me) and end up with endless symptoms and bloat and feel like shit.

Not saying test doesn't play a role ... Just is that ALL there is?

I highly doubt it tbh. Other hormones, diet, health status, genetics and etc. must play a big role. Top bodybuilders are like 0.01% of the population. Most bodybuilders only existed for 100 years, prior to that there is no evidence any men were big and muscled to ascribe it solely to testosterone differences alone.
 
Equo

Equo

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More than T by itself is androgen receptor density and sensitivity, free test doesn't tell you the whole story. Same mechanism by wich people respond differently to the same amount of anabolic steroids. Good physique!= High T
 
Papi

Papi

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We all know that stuff is simplified here for the lolz and the low IQs.

But is there any evidence testosterone blood levels are solely the driver of muscle?

I read a story about a guy who had low T, high GH, hypothyroidism and was massively overweight and he had large muscles too. Apparently high GH like from acromegaly can help with muscle tissue growth but is not correlated with higher T levels -- if anything higher estrogen.

Something related to certain conditions or tendencies which can drive muscle tissue or otherwise growth in the body besides just testosterone alone?

I mean some say they even make gains on DHT based roids when we all know those are not chemically similar to T.

Same also with the bulkers and certain other drugs like slin, SARMs, AIs, myostatin deficiency, different health factors, etc.

Those MFers with myostatin deficiency look swole and stacked AF and they have the same test level averages as probably some skinnyfatcels on here.

I am not convinced testosterone alone is the sole driver of everyone and their physique levels.

Some guys go on test (like me) and end up with endless symptoms and bloat and feel like shit.

Not saying test doesn't play a role ... Just is that ALL there is?

I highly doubt it tbh. Other hormones, diet, health status, genetics and etc. must play a big role. Top bodybuilders are like 0.01% of the population. Most bodybuilders only existed for 100 years, prior to that there is no evidence any men were big and muscled to ascribe it solely to testosterone differences alone.

It's more complicated.

All hormones do correlate with each other one way or another.

Your underbelly is what primary converts your testosterone into estrogen - that's one of the nice things to know.

That's why obese people have higher estrogen and lower testosterone.

Muscle grow is more complex here - what training does is actually not only ripping your muscle tissue, but also spins other processes in the meantime that are heavily related to hormones.

It enables that kind of "window" where the muscle is starting to rebuild and it consumes the protein as it's base to recreate the muscle tissue, refilling the muscles with glycogen, etc.
The regeneration happens 24/7, but during the sleep it's much more intense.

What going above norms with hormones does, is basically widening that window tremendously - that's why you can build more muscle mass than normal, you can build more dry muscle mass, have higher and more efficient regeneration, etc.

Of course, everything has it's limits and comes with costs.

The more muscle mass you have above the norm, the more it's becoming a burden for your lungs and heart.

That's why it's funny when you see those bodybuilders that have such super big muscles, and they get a stairs to 2nd floor and are out of breath as if they have asthma - their lungs are unable to cope with the oxygen needs for their muscles in body, it also causes overheat, and so on.
 
Keengo

Keengo

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It's more complicated.

All hormones do correlate with each other one way or another.

Your underbelly is what primary converts your testosterone into estrogen - that's one of the nice things to know.

That's why obese people have higher estrogen and lower testosterone.

Muscle grow is more complex here - what training does is actually not only ripping your muscle tissue, but also spins other processes in the meantime that are heavily related to hormones.

It enables that kind of "window" where the muscle is starting to rebuild and it consumes the protein as it's base to recreate the muscle tissue, refilling the muscles with glycogen, etc.
The regeneration happens 24/7, but during the sleep it's much more intense.

What going above norms with hormones does, is basically widening that window tremendously - that's why you can build more muscle mass than normal, you can build more dry muscle mass, have higher and more efficient regeneration, etc.

Of course, everything has it's limits and comes with costs.

The more muscle mass you have above the norm, the more it's becoming a burden for your lungs and heart.

That's why it's funny when you see those bodybuilders that have such super big muscles, and they get a stairs to 2nd floor and are out of breath as if they have asthma - their lungs are unable to cope with the oxygen needs for their muscles in body, it also causes overheat, and so on.

Yeah I figured blasting test just isn't worth it ... If you aren't a bodubuilder or have an ego complex why need to be a poofy muscle beast?

You can just dry up and build natty muscles and look peak ... Most guys can probably do much less damage with lower doses anyways.

Point is that "muscle beast" look comes with costs whereas the natty and dry/lean look is healthiest if you get it all right

But I had assumed estrogen had to do with muscle ... Most muscle monsters use aromatizeable gear, whereas DHT ones barely build size alone. So perhaps it's still more complicated than even this as muscle is a component of water, glycogen, genetics, proteins, etc.
 
Papi

Papi

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Yeah I figured blasting test just isn't worth it ... If you aren't a bodubuilder or have an ego complex why need to be a poofy muscle beast?

You can just dry up and build natty muscles and look peak ... Most guys can probably do much less damage with lower doses anyways.

Point is that "muscle beast" look comes with costs whereas the natty and dry/lean look is healthiest if you get it all right

But I had assumed estrogen had to do with muscle ... Most muscle monsters use aromatizeable gear, whereas DHT ones barely build size alone. So perhaps it's still more complicated than even this as muscle is a component of water, glycogen, genetics, proteins, etc.

It really depends on body type as well.

You have three general body types:
- Ectomorph
- Mesomorph
- Endomorph

Ectomorph are basically those skinny guys - you can even say those pretty boys, who eat shit food and keep being skinny (at least until they hit 30).
Their metabolism is extremely good and fast - they process food and do not store fat as they should. Even if they eat much more than Mesos or Endos.
But they have really big difficulty to gain muscle mass.
My mother for example is like that - she's eating 3-4 times more than me, including bags of cookies, etc. She's 64 and she's fucking skinny...

Mesomorph - basically the V shape body, like Arnold. Most desirable because it's very balanced. Easy to get in shape, easy to build body mass, basically general tips and tricks work for them.

Endomorph - your typical wide guys. Very easy to become a fat blob, but also very easy to build strength and muscle mass. The biggest problem of those body types is that torso is big, legs and hands visually appear short.

Another thing that is worth noting - testosterone won't really do much in terms of gains, if you're without a proper plan for your body.
And by your body, I mean that you must already be aware what products make you feel good, which make you feel heavy, sleepy, etc.
So, you don't eat your portion and fall asleep 20 mins later or you feel so heavy, that you'll just chill out completely at your room.

So, proper diets for rotation.
Second, you need proper training plan and you need to know how to do each exercise correctly with proper technique.

Even bodybuilders that take part in competitions are doing workouts with trainers who keep a watch on each of their exercise and correct their technique.

So as you can see, the muscle growth basically depends on those key factors
- correct external impulses i.e. training
- correct hormone synergies
- correct nourishment for internal processes

Another thing worthy to mention is that if you overwork your muscles, they will not grow (you would need to pump regeneration with Growth Hormone for example).

If you do not nourish your body properly with food, then your body will begin to consume muscles.
This is a natural process where body is hungry and values fat over muscles.
That's why it breaks muscles apart and consumes them for energy.
It's called catabolism.

To summarize:

Does testosterone work on muscle growth?

yes, it does.

Do you really need it to grow muscles?

No, you don't.
It just makes it easier due other benefits it grants.

What other benefits you get from testosterone?

Libido, increased assertiveness, energy, strength, confidence, etc. - basically mental health benefits a lot.
If you're an aggressive retard, then most likely it'll increase aggressiveness as well - it's individual.
 

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