is overhead press the best for bideltoid width

[Deleted member 7076]

i’m so weak in that lift

 

[JizzFarmer]

No, it primarily works front delt but it will strengthen your rotator cuff such that you significantly reduce your chance of injuring yourself on the bench press.

 

[Deleted member 7076]

wh

No, it primarily works front delt but it will strengthen your rotator cuff such that you significantly reduce your chance of injuring yourself on the bench pres.

whats the best then

 

[Deleted member 6789]

Rows and deadlift

 

[Ocelot]

no it's lateral raises, can't skip or substitute this exercise from a gym routine

slow and with low weight is painful as fuck ng;

 

[Deleted member 7076]

Rows and deadlift

that’s back

 

[randomuser2407]

Chin ups or Pull ups to grow your lats (upper back), this will make your shoulders look wider and create a V taper physique.

If you can't do those, do inverted rows instead, start at a low height on the squat rack, then work your way up to the highest J cup height.
Do 3 sets of 8-12 reps each workout. Then when you can do 3 sets of 8 at the highest height, try to do the same on the pull up bar.
I guarantee you will be able to do a lot of reps at that point and your back will be bigger.

Many guys here who see guys with big lats think they have a good frame, but if they had small lats, then they would have a small frame.

Shoulder size matters also but not nearly as much as lat size.

If you want faster progress, do the inverted rows 3-5 times per week, then do weighted chin ups or weighted pull ups 3 times per week.

When you reach a 100 lb weighted chin up, your lats will be very big and everyone on looksmax will think that it's because you have a good frame.

You can't go wrong with inverted rows as a beginner because the form is easy, unlike with barbell rows.

 

[randomuser2407]

no it's lateral raises, can't skip or substitute this exercise from a gym routine

slow and with low weight is painful as fuck ng;

Side delts can only gain a bit of size, it's the lats that matter the most, not the shoulders. Shoulders still matter though. But you need more upper back emphasis in your training.

 

[randomuser2407]

Rows and deadlift

The deadlift builds the hamstrings, glutes, lower back and forearms, not the upper back.
Barbell rows build the upper back but they are easy to cheat and it's difficult to do them 100% properly since your back angle will never be straight and it puts strain on the lower back.

Inverted rows, chin ups, and pull ups are way better for upper back training.

 

[Deleted member 6789]

The deadlift builds the hamstrings, glutes, lower back and forearms, not the upper back.
Barbell rows build the upper back but they are easy to cheat and it's difficult to do them 100% properly since your back angle will never be straight and it puts strain on the lower back.

Inverted rows, chin ups, and pull ups are way better for upper back training.

 

[randomuser2407]

No, it primarily works front delt but it will strengthen your rotator cuff such that you significantly reduce your chance of injuring yourself on the bench press.

No, the overhead press builds the entire shoulders, that is why if you reach a 200 lb overhead press, you will have huge shoulders even if you never did isolation exercises for the shoulders. The overhead press is the only lift that really matters for the shoulders. The isolation lifts won't do a big difference.

 

[Ocelot]

Side delts can only gain a bit of size, it's the lats that matter the most, not the shoulders. Shoulders still matter though. But you need more upper back emphasis in your training.

All this means is that your frame matters more for bideltoid. Your lats aren't going to do shit for bideltoid width, just gonna help you look wider overall.

 

[JizzFarmer]

No, the overhead press builds the entire shoulders, that is why if you reach a 200 lb overhead press, you will have huge shoulders even if you never did isolation exercises for the shoulders. The overhead press is the only lift that really matters for the shoulders. The isolation lifts won't do a big difference.

 

[JizzFarmer]

wh

whats the best then

You still do overhead press or dumbbell press but you have to burn out the side delts with lateral raises after.

 

[Deleted member 10524]

from lanklet to lanklet

 

[.*my*.]

Chin ups or Pull ups to grow your lats (upper back), this will make your shoulders look wider and create a V taper physique.

If you can't do those, do inverted rows instead, start at a low height on the squat rack, then work your way up to the highest J cup height.
Do 3 sets of 8-12 reps each workout. Then when you can do 3 sets of 8 at the highest height, try to do the same on the pull up bar.
I guarantee you will be able to do a lot of reps at that point and your back will be bigger.

Many guys here who see guys with big lats think they have a good frame, but if they had small lats, then they would have a small frame.

Shoulder size matters also but not nearly as much as lat size.

If you want faster progress, do the inverted rows 3-5 times per week, then do weighted chin ups or weighted pull ups 3 times per week.

When you reach a 100 lb weighted chin up, your lats will be very big and everyone on looksmax will think that it's because you have a good frame.

You can't go wrong with inverted rows as a beginner because the form is easy, unlike with barbell rows.

Why are you giving advice on something you aren’t even remotely familiar with?

 

[randomuser2407]

All this means is that your frame matters more for bideltoid. Your lats aren't going to do shit for bideltoid width, just gonna help you look wider overall.

This is actually false, the bigger your lats are, the further away your shoulders will be from the center of your body.

Wide lats make you look like you have a wide frame. Most people never see this because they neglect their lats.

When's the last time you have seen someone do pull ups at the gym? It almost never happens, because people are lazy, they waste their time with machines instead of doing the most effective exercise for size.

 

[.*my*.]

from lanklet to lanklet

It’s funny that he’s giving advice

 

[.*my*.]

Kinda like a divorced single mom giving advice on relationships

 

[randomuser2407]

from lanklet to lanklet

My muscles got slightly bigger because I got slightly stronger, I'm gymmaxxing right now though and gaining strength very well on high rep sets on a high volume 5 day training program while eating 3500 calories and 1g of protein per pound of bodyweight.

So I'm going to be getting more and more muscular every month.

 

[Ocelot]

This is actually false, the bigger your lats are, the further away your shoulders will be from the center of your body.

Wide lats make you look like you have a wide frame. Most people never see this because they neglect their lats.

When's the last time you have seen someone do pull ups at the gym? It almost never happens, because people are lazy, they waste their time with machines instead of doing the most effective exercise for size.

fucking lol dude

You think your lats are going to just move your shoulders? You have 0 understanding of anatomy yet you write essays about what you think is right.

 

[Deleted member 10524]

My muscles got slightly bigger because I got slightly stronger, I'm gymmaxxing right now though and gaining strength very well on high rep sets on a high volume 5 day training program while eating 3500 calories and 1g of protein per pound of bodyweight.

So I'm going to be getting more and more muscular every month.

Okay lets see it then, anyone who does serious gymmaxxing will mog your after picture in a month

 

[.*my*.]

OP, for me weighted pull ups made my bideltoid wider ngl.

 

[.*my*.]

Okay lets see it then, anyone who does serious gymmaxxing will mog your after picture in a month

People here gave him a shit load of advice but he refuses to listen.

 

[randomuser2407]

It’s funny that he’s giving advice

I can't wait to see how this entire forum is going to react when they see my transformation pictures and see me going from small frame to big frame just by getting bigger lats.

I'll debunk your made up framepill concept in just a few pictures, and then you'll feel stupid.

 

[.*my*.]

I can't wait to see how this entire forum is going to react when they see my transformation pictures and see me going from small frame to big frame just by getting bigger lats.

I'll debunk your made up framepill concept in just a few pictures, and then you'll feel stupid.

That day will never come until you start listening. I repeatedly told you that your diet sucks but you ignore that.

You won’t accomplish anything.

 

[randomuser2407]

Okay lets see it then, anyone who does serious gymmaxxing will mog your after picture in a month

My 1 month picture will be better than most true naturals' 1 month picture (who are at the same level as me)

 

[randomuser2407]

That day will never come until you start listening. I repeatedly told you that your diet sucks but you ignore that.

You won’t accomplish anything.

MY DIET SUCKS?????

 

[randomuser2407]

OP, for me weighted pull ups made my bideltoid wider ngl.

Then this is the proof that I am right.

 

[Deleted member 11221]

OHP
Front raises
Bent over row
Upright row
just doing ^ should get you a decent frame

 

[.*my*.]

MY DIET SUCKS?????

You’re either very active, or your thyroid is fucked up because with that amount of food you should be gaining.

 

[.*my*.]

Then this is the proof that I am right.

Right about what?

 

[Deleted member 7076]

MY DIET SUCKS?????

what food app is that

 

[.*my*.]

MY DIET SUCKS?????

Or you’re not consistent, that’s the third option.

 

[randomuser2407]

You’re either very active, or your thyroid is fucked up because with that amount of food you should be gaining.

Because I just started. Like I said before, I had to stop training because they closed down the gyms in my area. But I managed to make my home gym.

I started last week but I was so out of shape that it took me that 1 week to get my cardio back and to get used to my program and find out how much weight I need to use for each exercise and how to set the pins and j cups in my new Rogue power rack.

From now on it is going to be way easier though since I know what weight and which exercises to do and my cardio is good enough to do high volume.

And I started training my neck, I can do 25 reps of bodyweight neck curls and 25 reps of 10 lb neck extensions, I am going to work my way up to 90 lbs for both exercises in the next couple of months, and then I will have at least an 18 inch neck and will be fully neckmaxxed. And I'll keep gymmaxxing at the same time.

If COVID19 had never happened I would already look like I lift, the gyms have been open only for a very short time this year where I live and that is the main problem. In the years before, it's just because I was either not consistent or not going to the gym at all, but in 2020 I was ready, that's what pisses me off the most about the quarantine. I was 178 lbs in March when the gyms closed and I was at around the same body fat % as now, I lost muscle when I lost strength.

The progress pic is from August but I was bloated when I took the picture, I am actually skinnier than that.

 

[.*my*.]

Because I just started. Like I said before, I had to stop training because they closed down the gyms in my area. But I managed to make my home gym.

I started last week but I was so out of shape that it took me that 1 week to get my cardio back and to get used to my program and find out how much weight I need to use for each exercise and how to set the pins and j cups in my new Rogue power rack.

From now on it is going to be way easier though since I know what weight and which exercises to do and my cardio is good enough to do high volume.

And I started training my neck, I can do 25 reps of bodyweight neck curls and 25 reps of 10 lb neck extensions, I am going to work my way up to 90 lbs for both exercises in the next couple of months, and then I will have at least an 18 inch neck and will be fully neckmaxxed. And I'll keep gymmaxxing at the same time.

If COVID19 had never happened I would already look like I lift, the gyms have been open only for a very short time this year where I live and that is the main problem. In the years before, it's just because I was either not consistent or not going to the gym at all, but in 2020 I was ready, that's what pisses me off the most about the quarantine. I was 178 lbs in March when the gyms closed and I was at around the same body fat % as now, I lost muscle when I lost strength.

The progress pic is from August but I was bloated when I took the picture, I am actually skinnier than that.

What a pathetic excuse. My strength went up 3 times in quarantine. I made weights with water bottles and filled my backpack with rocks. In quarantine I became the strongest I ever was and you come here and tell me how chinese virus stopped you. What a shame.

 

[randomuser2407]

what food app is that

Cronometer. It's like myfitnesspal but way better because it tracks vitamins, minerals, essential amino acids and fiber, not just calories and macros.

Did you know that you could get all your amino acids from eggs and then you have enough for the day and can get your protein anywhere else you want?

When I started lifting I thought I needed to eat 1g of protein per lb of bodyweight in animal products, but it is actually much simpler than that, 4 eggs gives you most of your essential amino acids, then you just need to get enough protein, it doesn't matter where it comes from or if it is complete. I eat lots of meat every day for convenience though.

On a side note, the main reason why the vegan diet doesn't work is due to an excessive fiber intake, which leads to digestive issues, I know because I tried it for 1 year back in 2019, I had over 1g of protein per lb of bodyweight but I couldn't digest the protein because I was basically shitting myself, one time it happened at work, nobody noticed but it was extremely uncomfortable and embarassing. So, the vegan diet does work but only for people who can digest over 100g of fiber each day and eat enough complete protein to get all their essential amino acids.

 

[randomuser2407]

What a pathetic excuse. My strength went up 3 times in quarantine. I made weights with water bottles and filled my backpack with rocks. In quarantine I became the strongest I ever was and you come here and tell me how chinese virus stopped you. What a shame.

I have bad genetics, pushups do nothing for me, light curls do nothing either. I needed big compound movements and I needed to get stronger on them, for that I needed a barbell, a power rack (chin up bar included) and some weights, calisthenics are a waste of time for me.
Since 2017, I can do 100 bodyweight squats in a row with perfect form, so what would have helped? 500?

There was absolutely nothing I could have done except order my home gym equipment earlier but my dad told me that we didn't have the space. I later found out that he was lying just because he didn't want to bother with having to clean the garage, and didn't want me to have a home gym. Then I did it anyways by ordering most of my stuff from Rogue Fitness for 4000$ back in late October when the gyms were about to be closed 2 days later. My stuff took 1 month and 1 week to arrive, then it took me around 1 week to setup. And I am finally using it.

And I even tried at the start of the quarantine, I used my bands I got from Rogue Fitness and it only gave me a temporary pump, the problem with bands is that you can't do good progressive overload and you have no way of measuring your progress.

For a beginner that has normal genetics, of course calisthenics training is going to give some results but for someone like me, it's not going to do anything. I should have just ordered my stuff back in March instead, I would have saved 6 months and I would already have made some gains during that time, but at the time, I didn't have a clue of where the stuff would go and if I could do it by myself, I only realized that later.

 

[.*my*.]

I have bad genetics, pushups do nothing for me, light curls do nothing either. I needed big compound movements and I needed to get stronger on them, for that I needed a barbell, a power rack (chin up bar included) and some weights, calisthenics are a waste of time for me.
Since 2017, I can do 100 bodyweight squats in a row with perfect form, so what would have helped? 500?

There was absolutely nothing I could have done except order my home gym equipment earlier but my dad told me that we didn't have the space. I later found out that he was lying just because he didn't want to bother with having to clean the garage, and didn't want me to have a home gym. Then I did it anyways by ordering most of my stuff from Rogue Fitness for 4000$ back in late October when the gyms were about to be closed 2 days later. My stuff took 1 month and 1 week to arrive, then it took me around 1 week to setup. And I am finally using it.

And I even tried at the start of the quarantine, I used my bands I got from Rogue Fitness and it only gave me a temporary pump, the problem with bands is that you can't do good progressive overload and you have no way of measuring your progress.

For a beginner that has normal genetics, of course calisthenics training is going to give some results but for someone like me, it's not going to do anything. I should have just ordered my stuff back in March instead, I would have saved 6 months and I would already have made some gains during that time, but at the time, I didn't have a clue of where the stuff would go and if I could do it by myself, I only realized that later.

This is me in august 2018. 130 pounds. I always thought I had bad genetics, which was a lie. I had average or above average muscle building genetics, my nutrition just sucked. Today I am 195 at 6’3. Don’t believe that bad genetics crap.

 

[Deleted member 7076]

th

Cronometer. It's like myfitnesspal but way better because it tracks vitamins, minerals, essential amino acids and fiber, not just calories and macros.

Did you know that you could get all your amino acids from eggs and then you have enough for the day and can get your protein anywhere else you want?

When I started lifting I thought I needed to eat 1g of protein per lb of bodyweight in animal products, but it is actually much simpler than that, 4 eggs gives you most of your essential amino acids, then you just need to get enough protein, it doesn't matter where it comes from or if it is complete. I eat lots of meat every day for convenience though.

On a side note, the main reason why the vegan diet doesn't work is due to an excessive fiber intake, which leads to digestive issues, I know because I tried it for 1 year back in 2019, I had over 1g of protein per lb of bodyweight but I couldn't digest the protein because I was basically shitting myself, one time it happened at work, nobody noticed but it was extremely uncomfortable and embarassing. So, the vegan diet does work but only for people who can digest over 100g of fiber each day and eat enough complete protein to get all their essential amino acids.

ankyou

 

[randomuser2407]

This is me in august 2018. 130 pounds. I always thought I had bad genetics, which was a lie. I had average or above average muscle building genetics, my nutrition just sucked. Today I am 195 at 6’3. Don’t believe that bad genetics crap.

I know, I don't use my genetics as an excuse for no results. My point is that depending on your genetics, your body will respond differently to each type of training. Guys with amazing genetics do well on any program up until they become advanced lifters (around 100 lb weighted chin up, 200 lb OHP, 300 lb bench press, 400 lb squat, 450 lb deadlift).

But then there are also guys like me (ectomorphs) who do far better on high volume training programs with lower weight and higher reps and constant progressive overload. I know my body because I have been lifting for years, I know what has worked the most and what hasn't worked for me at all. Calisthenics are a waste of time for me (except vertical pulls). And low volume training doesn't work for me.
So, for exercises where I can't even do high reps, I can't build up from low reps to high reps because my muscles aren't worked well enough.

People who claim that results are 80% nutrition and 20% training are full of shit, if you just bulk with bad training, you'll just get fat unless your genetics are really good. But if your training is amazing and your nutrition is not the most optimal, you will get better results as long as you can recover from your workouts and you are not at a low body fat percentage.

When I say training matters more I mean that you need to do more than tire your muscles, you need to train them hard enough to make them grow and how hard is that? It depends on the person. The more stubborn your genetics are, the harder you have to train.

So since most programs make me do fluff & pump exercises with machines, cables and dumbbells instead of compound movements, I made no progress even when I was eating enough. Most programs lack volume and frequency, and have bad exercise selection. I should have made my own program years ago, following bad programs was one of my biggest mistakes, but this information wasn't anywhere online or in real life, anybody who ever gave me advice in real life didn't know what they were doing. The huge amount of misinformation in the fitness community has been extremely frustrating but I have never given up.


Also, being skinny has nothing to do with genetics. Your genetics can be determined by how your body responds to training, if it responds poorly with no progress then you have bad genetics, if it responds very well, then your genetics are really good. A guy can start out skinny with good genetics and build a good physique easily with subpar training methods.

 

[Deleted member 7521]

That day will never come until you start listening. I repeatedly told you that your diet sucks but you ignore that.

You won’t accomplish anything.

Mewing is known to increase shoulder widthfuck replied to the wrong guy nvm

 

[.*my*.]

I know, I don't use my genetics as an excuse for no results. My point is that depending on your genetics, your body will respond differently to each type of training. Guys with amazing genetics do well on any program up until they become advanced lifters (around 100 lb weighted chin up, 200 lb OHP, 300 lb bench press, 400 lb squat, 450 lb deadlift).

But then there are also guys like me (ectomorphs) who do far better on high volume training programs with lower weight and higher reps and constant progressive overload. I know my body because I have been lifting for years, I know what has worked the most and what hasn't worked for me at all. Calisthenics are a waste of time for me (except vertical pulls). And low volume training doesn't work for me.
So, for exercises where I can't even do high reps, I can't build up from low reps to high reps because my muscles aren't worked well enough.

People who claim that results are 80% nutrition and 20% training are full of shit, if you just bulk with bad training, you'll just get fat unless your genetics are really good. But if your training is amazing and your nutrition is not the most optimal, you will get better results as long as you can recover from your workouts and you are not at a low body fat percentage.

When I say training matters more I mean that you need to do more than tire your muscles, you need to train them hard enough to make them grow and how hard is that? It depends on the person. The more stubborn your genetics are, the harder you have to train.

So since most programs make me do fluff & pump exercises with machines, cables and dumbbells instead of compound movements, I made no progress even when I was eating enough. Most programs lack volume and frequency, and have bad exercise selection. I should have made my own program years ago, following bad programs was one of my biggest mistakes, but this information wasn't anywhere online or in real life, anybody who ever gave me advice in real life didn't know what they were doing. The huge amount of misinformation in the fitness community has been extremely frustrating but I have never given up.

Dude you completely missed the point. What I am trying to explain is that I am an “ectomorph” like you, but I still made gains. And no, you don’t know your body because you haven’t build any muscle. How can you know which training your body responds to if you’ve never dieted or trained properly?

 

[Deleted member 4332]

advanced lifters

450 lb deadlift

 

[KingOfRome]

i’m so weak in that lift

The overhead press is the god lift, and if your estimated 1rm on the overhead press isn't at least 175 lbs, you are a soyboy and a numale and a cuck.

 

[randomuser2407]

Dude you completely missed the point. What I am trying to explain is that I am an “ectomorph” like you, but I still made gains. And no, you don’t know your body because you haven’t build any muscle. How can you know which training your body responds to if you’ve never dieted or trained properly?

I have trained properly in 3 month periods, I didn't just jump from 1 program to another quickly, I tried each type of training program every 3 months while taking breaks in between the 3 month periods while wondering if I should keep going or give up. I started with bro splits for 3 months, then I did push pull legs, then I did the kinobody training programs, then I did full body 5x5, then I did full body 3x5, then I did higher frequency full body 5x5.

Now I am using a 5 day upper lower program that I made myself with advice I found from a good youtube channel. It mixes high reps with low reps for 3 sets per exercise and uses a low exercise selection to maximize frequency (mostly compound movements, with barbell curls, tricep kickbacks, and neck curls added)

This program will work for years. I'll never have to switch to another program or buy a bad program ever again.

Just because you were skinny doesn't mean you have my genetics. 2 skinny guys will always have completely different genetics. Your starting point has nothing to do with your ability to gain muscle mass.

Many guys like Greg Doucette believe that guys like me have the muscular potential of a woman but that is only true if they train the same way as normal people, if they train with high volume and high frequency, they will have at least the same muscular potential as normal people.

I'm not using my genetics as a crutch, but what I am saying is that I am forced to train different from other people to get good results.

 

[.*my*.]

I have trained properly in 3 month periods, I didn't just jump from 1 program to another quickly, I tried each type of training program every 3 months while taking breaks in between the 3 month periods while wondering if I should keep going or give up. I started with bro splits for 3 months, then I did push pull legs, then I did the kinobody training programs, then I did full body 5x5, then I did full body 3x5, then I did higher frequency full body 5x5.

Now I am using a 5 day upper lower program that I made myself with advice I found from a good youtube channel. It mixes high reps with low reps for 3 sets per exercise and uses a low exercise selection to maximize frequency (mostly compound movements, with barbell curls, tricep kickbacks, and neck curls added)

This program will work for years. I'll never have to switch to another program or buy a bad program ever again.

Just because you were skinny doesn't mean you have my genetics. 2 skinny guys will always have completely different genetics. Your starting point has nothing to do with your ability to gain muscle mass.

Many guys like Greg Doucette believe that guys like me have the muscular potential of a woman but that is only true if they train the same way as normal people, if they train with high volume and high frequency, they will have at least the same muscular potential as normal people.

I'm not using my genetics as a crutch, but what I am saying is that I am forced to train different from other people to get good results.

You are unbelievable. In that 2018 picture my T was sub 500. So get the fuck out of here with your lame ass excuses.

 

[randomuser2407]

View attachment 859261

OK, maybe 450 lb squat, 500 lb deadlift, to be honest it depends on your stats.

The taller you are, the more you will weigh. And taller guys have a shorter range of motion when pulling from the floor.

So for a 6 foot 4 guy like me it will be 500 lbs while for a short 5 foot 5 guy it would be 450 lbs or a bit lower.

 

[randomuser2407]

You are unbelievable. In that 2018 picture my T was sub 500. So get the fuck out of here with your lame ass excuses.

Testosterone is not a synonym for genetics, or how well you respond to training. It is only one of many variables. And while you can boost your testosterone, you can't change your bone structure.

When I talk about genetics I mean bone structure, not testosterone levels, if sports don't make you more muscular, you have bad genetics and respond poorly to most types of training, and the same logic can be applied to construction work that involves heavy lifting.

The only people in my family who were tall were as skinny as I am and they were doing tons of heavy lifting throughout their life and were eating enough, so going by your logic, they should have been at least slightly muscular, but they weren't muscular at all. This is due to bad genetics, their bone structure is different from most people.

But bad genetics don't mean bad muscular potential, it just means that the body responds better to a specific type of training.

 

[.*my*.]

Testosterone has nothing to do with genetics, or how well you respond to training.

When I talk about genetics I mean bone structure, not testosterone levels, if sports don't make you more muscular, you have bad genetics and respond poorly to most types of training, and the same logic can be applied to construction work that involves heavy lifting.

The only people in my family who were tall were as skinny as I am and they were doing tons of heavy lifting throughout their life and were eating enough, so going by your logic, they should have been at least slightly muscular, but they weren't muscular at all. This is due to bad genetics, their bone structure is different from most people.

But bad genetics don't mean bad muscular potential, it just means that the body responds better to a specific type of training.

Your bone structure is identical to mine. Your wrists are also 6.5-7” like mine. And I have people in my family who are “ectomorphs” like me and even though they do construction work they don’t build any muscle. You know why? Because their diet is trash.