Is there a correlation between being religious and being low IQ?

[Deleted member 9699]

Open a history book. Only Europe was controlled by Christianity in the dark ages, not the world. Furthermore the world always was and always has been religious

The dark ages happened because of the complete collapse of the Roman Empire and its successors. Not religion. If anything religion helped as it was the Catholic Church who preserved information from the roman period.

At the same time as the dark ages, the islamic Middle East was in a golden age. If you’re gonna call others low iq, at least have more than a surface (and biased) understanding of history/religion

Ah, yes. Your typical retarded arguments. What drove the killings in the Dark Ages? I don't give a shit if they were politically motivated. There were kills simply because people refused to believe in the Church and denied the existence of God. They've killed many people and even conquered land in the name of religion.

Islam wasn't any better. In fact, most 'Muslim' scientists during the Golden Age were never confirmed to be even Muslim. Muslims simply called them Muslim, but there is no single proof of any of them being Muslim.

Yes, religion was always apart of every culture, but that doesn't mean it's true. If you have ten retards jumping around claiming that Jesus is king, that doesn't mean it's true.

You're nothing but an uneducated fool who thinks the world was all sunshine and rainbows. Religion was spread by the sword and will die off in the next century if not before as the world progresses and rids itself of all backwards ideologies. It's already happening.

 

[Gosick]

If you believe our current society is the best possible outcome of what we could’ve/should’ve been then I guess that explains why you would back religion so much but I personally find that to be insane. Western civilization is so glamorized but we’re not comparing Western civilization to other modern societies (which by the way also tend to be religious and even Christian a lot of the time). We’re comparing current civilization to what it could be without religion and I personally don’t buy into the idea that just because historically religion was involved that it was best for religion to be involved.

“You don’t need to believe in God literally to be religious” is a weird statement. Yes you do. If you’re religious, you buy into the beliefs and precepts of that specific religion. If you ONLY think the values that come out of it are important than you can simply have your own set of morals and not be religious. And once again I want to reiterate that religions are constructed by mankind based off of existing morals and values. So the idea that civilization will just fall apart and descend into a hedonistic state of anarchy without believing in something with no more basis than the Tooth Fairy is stupid. Morals are here to stay regardless.

Your last statement is just a poor correlation->causation argument. I’m sure the fact that progressives skew young and the younger generations are dealing with the student debt crisis, stagnating wages, skyrocketing rent prices, social media and technology induced depression and feelings of isolation has something to do with not starting families. And even if there is a slight gap between conservatives and progressives in terms of familial values, that’s not to say it has to always be that way? In my view societal advancement is all about push and pull. Sometimes you get it just right and sometimes you go a bit too far and have to come back a little. Maybe in the short term without religion society would be less structured by family but eventually it would adjust. I don’t think the biological hardwired desire for people to procreate and raise their children in the best possible way necessitates a belief in God.

"We’re comparing current civilization to what it could be without religion and I personally don’t buy into the idea that just because historically religion was involved that it was best for religion to be involved."

You're literally seeing this today, more nihilism as a result of lack of religious value embedded.

"You don’t need to believe in God literally to be religious” is a weird statement. Yes you do. If you’re religious, you buy into the beliefs and precepts of that specific religion."

umm yes you can, being religious is really buying into the morality/customs associated with that religion, alot of people throughout history are considered religious but probably internally did not believe in God in the literal sense.

"If you ONLY think the values that come out of it are important than you can simply have your own set of morals and not be religious."

Which is fine but the problem is, is that people dont as your seeing today. Most atheists tend to be progressives/tranny lovers which is an actual fact

"And even if there is a slight gap between conservatives and progressives in terms of familial values, that’s not to say it has to always be that way? "

lol what, progressives are pro degeneracy, Im not talking about just economic policy, im talking about social policy. They wont ever be the same in that regard. Economically speaking, Socialism/Social Democracy/DemocraticSocialism wont ever be possible in the U.S due to the insane amount of polarization.

" Maybe in the short term without religion society would be less structured by family but eventually it would adjust"

no it wont, you either need strong emphasis on religion or a strong government/family enforcing values. Most families that arent religious are rather dysfunctional.

 

[Blackout.xl]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23921675/

“A meta-analysis of 63 studies showed a significant negative association between intelligence and religiosity.”

Unsurprising. The disparity would be even larger if not for the fact that the fear of death oftentimes overcomes rational thought/intelligence and makes normally high IQ people buy into a low IQ ideology.

A newer study with that meta analysis only produced an R factor of -.20 to -.23. Which is a minor correlation. Not a strong one.

 

[Blackout.xl]

Ah, yes. Your typical retarded arguments. What drove the killings in the Dark Ages? I don't give a shit if they were politically motivated. There were kills simply because people refused to believe in the Church and denied the existence of God. They've killed many people and even conquered land in the name of religion.

Islam wasn't any better. In fact, most 'Muslim' scientists during the Golden Age were never confirmed to be even Muslim. Muslims simply called them Muslim, but there is no single proof of any of them being Muslim.

Yes, religion was always apart of every culture, but that doesn't mean it's true. If you have ten retards jumping around claiming that Jesus is king, that doesn't mean it's true.

You're nothing but an uneducated fool who thinks the world was all sunshine and rainbows. Religion was spread by the sword and will die off in the next century if not before as the world progresses and rids itself of all backwards ideologies. It's already happening.

I don’t know what people being killed for in the dark ages has to do with the conversation. Yes there were some people wrongfully killed by the Catholic Church, this isn’t a significant factor on why the dark ages were they way they were.

Much more people died from general warfare, disease and had lower QoL’s due to overcrowding and a lack of sanitation, which can be traced back to no central political authority and a loss of infrastructure knowledge, which furthermore can be traced back to the fall of the Roman Empire.

I’m just giving you basic historical info and you’re responding with insults. Insane ngl

Land has been conquered for many things across history. Again, this doesn’t mean much.

Lmfao what? They were brought up into islam and educated by Islamic academies and were living in islamic dominant areas. Theres next to no evidence of all of most of them not being Muslim. Cite your source or your point is trashed.

That again isn’t even related to what I was saying. I don’t know how you extract me implying religion is true from me talking about religions influence on culture.

Never said or implied the world was sunshine and rainbows. Religion being spread only by the sword again is just historical ignorance. Are missionaries not a thing? Is cultural influence from trade not a thing? Could go on. I agree religion has been spread by the sword in multiple instances but that’s not the only way it has spread, not even close.

Religion as a concept will never die off. People already are making alternatives for themselves in the form of consumerism, hedonism, celebrity worship and political activism. It is what it is. This whole “world ridding itself of backwards ideologies” is cringe and an atheist power fantasy which literally ignores everything happening around you.

Your obvious superiority complex is pathetic as well tbh

 

[Deleted member 9699]

Lmfao what? They were brought up into islam and educated by Islamic academies and were living in islamic dominant areas. Theres next to no evidence of all of them not being Muslim. Cite your source or your point is trashed.

All your sources are written by the exact same people who are lying to you. You are a sheep, hence why you believe in a manmade book.

Never said or implied the world was sunshine and rainbows. Religion being spread only by the sword again is just historical ignorance. Are missionaries not a thing? Is cultural influence from trade not a thing? Could go on. I agree religion has been spread by the sword in multiple instances but that’s not the only way it has spread, not even close.

Historical influence and missionaries were not as impactful and you and I both know this. You think the average trader is going in to spread their religion? JFL at your ignorance. Reminder that Muslims conquered Spain for hundreds of years. I'm not saying they're wrong because every religion has had to resort to violence to be spread, but they're not as holy as they claim to be and you are a sheep for thinking they are.

It's not the only way it was spread, it was the most effective way it was spread. Some horny goatfucker going to Europe to trade is not gonna leave the country they're in with a quarter of the population converted to their religion, but some fanatic with an entire army on horseback will be able to achieve that.

Religion as a concept will never die off. People already are making alternatives for themselves in the form of consumerism, hedonism, celebrity worship and political activism. It is what it is. This whole “world ridding itself of backwards ideologies” is cringe and an atheist power fantasy which literally ignores everything happening around you.

Religion will continue to exist because it's a coping mechanism. There's no shame in believing that this world is very vast and detailed and it is mythical in many aspects, but that doesn't have to lead to a specific God. It could be a God who hasn't even thought of inventing religion, or aliens, we will quite literally never know.

Your obvious superiority complex is pathetic as well tbh

Having a superiority complex is somehow related to me calling you out on believing on bullshit which was all written in a book by another man. Who's really the self-centered narcissist with a superiority complex here?


You and I will never see eye to eye on things related to religion, and that's fine, but you are very ignorant to not broaden your scope of thinking and go outside of the box. You've inherited your beliefs like you did your eating habits, your conversational skills and many things. Anything other than this is cope. If you were born in Israel you'd just be a Jew, meaning you are a sheep who doesn't have the ability to think for themselves and simply falls for what they're taught in childhood. You'll never be able to abandon your religion either, because it's integrated into your core personality and if you do, you'll feel depressed. You've been brainwashed and will likely stay that way till you're in the grave.

 

[Gosick]

Muslims are conquering europe because europe isnt as christian as it used to be. If Europe was more religious as it used to be, muslims wouldnt as tolerated as they are now.

Religion particularly Christianity or Fascism promotes ethno centrism which allows a group to prevail and evolve in a harsh Darwinian environment

 

[Blackout.xl]

All your sources are written by the exact same people who are lying to you. You are a sheep, hence why you believe in a manmade book.


Historical influence and missionaries were not as impactful and you and I both know this. You think the average trader is going in to spread their religion? JFL at your ignorance. Reminder that Muslims conquered Spain for hundreds of years. I'm not saying they're wrong because every religion has had to resort to violence to be spread, but they're not as holy as they claim to be and you are a sheep for thinking they are.

It's not the only way it was spread, it was the most effective way it was spread. Some horny goatfucker going to Europe to trade is not gonna leave the country they're in with a quarter of the population converted to their religion, but some fanatic with an entire army on horseback will be able to achieve that.


Religion will continue to exist because it's a coping mechanism. There's no shame in believing that this world is very vast and detailed and it is mythical in many aspects, but that doesn't have to lead to a specific God. It could be a God who hasn't even thought of inventing religion, or aliens, we will quite literally never know.


Having a superiority complex is somehow related to me calling you out on believing on bullshit which was all written in a book by another man. Who's really the self-centered narcissist with a superiority complex here?


You and I will never see eye to eye on things related to religion, and that's fine, but you are very ignorant to not broaden your scope of thinking and go outside of the box. You've inherited your beliefs like you did your eating habits, your conversational skills and many things. Anything other than this is cope. If you were born in Israel you'd just be a Jew, meaning you are a sheep who doesn't have the ability to think for themselves and simply falls for what they're taught in childhood. You'll never be able to abandon your religion either, because it's integrated into your core ability and if you do, you'll feel depressed. You've been brainwashed and will likely stay that way till you're in the grave.

So you don’t have any proof? Your point is in the bin then. Making ad-hoc explanations for your argument isnt Gonna work here.

You fail to understand the cultural exchange that happened with pre 20th century trade. One trader isn’t going to convert a whole country, but it almost never was one trader. It usually was a large amount that would transport goods and services to other regions. More trade results in a bigger and better relationship between two nations, which leads to an even bigger cultural exchange.

Then there’s the fact that with traders, came missionaries, people who literally made it their job to spread their religion. I’m not just going to use my own reasoning for this with no proof, I’ll link an article below that details this. But your point of religion only spreading by the sword is wrong.

http://ccnmtl.columbia.edu/services/dropoff/china_civ_temp/week06/pdfs/religi.pdf

Did you know?: The Spread of Islam in Southeast Asia through the Trade Routes | Silk Roads Programme

The Silk Roads are amongst some of the most important routes in our collective history. It was through these roads that relations between east and west were established, exposing diverse regions to different ideas and ways of life. Notably, these exchanges also included the diffusion of many of...

en.unesco.org

War wasn’t the most effective way to spread religion either. The world isn’t a video game. You need supply lines, logistics, tactics, knowledge of diplomacy, etc. An army on horse back needs insane amounts of food to keep going. The horses need food. I could go on. It was an effective tactic but it wasn’t the most used, nor was it the most effective and as simple as Youre making it out to be.

It’s not you calling me out. It’s the repetitive insults and obviously condensending tone. The fact that you can’t even see this proves even further that you’re a narcissist with a superiority complex.

The last part is cope too. I’m not even a very religious person either. Jfl @ this

 

[Deleted member 9699]

So you don’t have any proof? Your point is in the bin then. Making ad-hoc explanations for your argument isnt Gonna work here.

You fail to understand the cultural exchange that happened with pre 20th century trade. One trader isn’t going to convert a whole country, but it almost never was one trader. It usually was a large amount that would transport goods and services to other regions. More trade results in a bigger and better relationship between two nations, which leads to an even bigger cultural exchange.

Then there’s the fact that with traders, came missionaries, people who literally made it their job to spread their religion. I’m not just going to use my own reasoning for this with no proof, I’ll link an article below that details this. But your point of religion only spreading by the sword is wrong.

http://ccnmtl.columbia.edu/services/dropoff/china_civ_temp/week06/pdfs/religi.pdf

Did you know?: The Spread of Islam in Southeast Asia through the Trade Routes | Silk Roads Programme

The Silk Roads are amongst some of the most important routes in our collective history. It was through these roads that relations between east and west were established, exposing diverse regions to different ideas and ways of life. Notably, these exchanges also included the diffusion of many of...

en.unesco.org

War wasn’t the most effective way to spread religion either. The world isn’t a video game. You need supply lines, logistics, tactics, knowledge of diplomacy, etc. An army on horse back needs insane amounts of food to keep going. The horses need food. I could go on. It was an effective tactic but it wasn’t the most used, nor was it the most effective and as simple as Youre making it out to be.

It’s not you calling me out. It’s the repetitive insults and obviously condensending tone. The fact that you can’t even see this proves even further that you’re a narcissist with a superiority complex.

The last part is cope too. I’m not even a very religious person either. Jfl @ this

I won't bother responding to this point-by-point. Just know that using research to prove social notions from the past is about as dumb as it gets. You can't prove anything from 2000 years ago no matter what jfl. It's impossible.

For all the research you've linked, there's evidence out there that points against it. It's an endless loop filled with nothing but either A) bias, B) researchers wanting to get papers submitted for money.

Either way, agree to disagree. Don't want to carry this any longer.

 

[Blackout.xl]

I won't bother responding to this point-by-point. Just know that using research to prove social notions from the past is about as dumb as it gets. You can't prove anything from 2000 years ago no matter what jfl. It's impossible.

For all the research you've linked, there's evidence out there that points against it. It's an endless loop filled with nothing but either A) bias, B) researchers wanting to get papers submitted for money.

Either way, agree to disagree. Don't want to carry this any longer.

The articles aren’t biased and there’s no proof against it but ok

 

[Deleted member 9699]

The articles aren’t biased and there’s no proof against it but ok

How could they prove such things? Even history is conflicting. You're smart enough to know that history is a meme.

 

[Blackout.xl]

How could they prove such things? Even history is conflicting. You're smart enough to know that history is a meme.

 

[Deleted member 10172]

Title
Someone said that was the case but I haven't found any studies on it

There is.Black people believe in god and yet always go against his preachings.

 

[Deleted member 9699]

It's true though. There are many things in history that you can't exactly prove, especially things that happened 2000 years ago JFL. Taking the word of historians (which at the time were most likely kicked out of the countries that most eventful shit happened in and scattered all over).

Religion wasn't only spread by the sword, yeah, but that was the most major way for religions to conquer. Eventually they ease the people of the place they've conquered and start involving them and they slowly become allies to them. Everyone did this, from Pagans to Christians.

 

[rockndogs]

No correlation

 

[Blackout.xl]

It's true though. There are many things in history that you can't exactly prove, especially things that happened 2000 years ago JFL. Taking the word of historians (which at the time were most likely kicked out of the countries that most eventful shit happened in and scattered all over).

Religion wasn't only spread by the sword, yeah, but that was the most major way for religions to conquer. Eventually they ease the people of the place they've conquered and start involving them and they slowly become allies to them. Everyone did this, from Pagans to Christians.

The funny thing is that the history of this isn’t even 2000 years ago. It can even be traced within the last 300 years

And theres 0 proof that historians were the most likely to be kicked out

 

[Deleted member 9699]

me rn tbh

 

[Ritalincel]

 

[Deleted member 9699]

View attachment 857362

 

[Lasko123]

IQ is overated.Manny Pacquiao is Christian and one of the greatest boxers.Floyd Mayweather is also one of the greats and he cant even read.