Is there such a thing as too tall?

primal_shitmuncher

primal_shitmuncher

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We know that it's possible to be too masculine dimorphic and too muscular when it comes to appealing togirls, but is there really such a thing as too tall for women?

Unless you've got a fucked up face, and you're not tall to the point where living life is a hassle (i.e being so tall that shit like certain offices and transportation are too short for you, etc.), then I don't think there's such a thing as being 'too tall' (at least personally).

Like I've still seen girls simping for dudes 6'6 and 7'0. It could be that while being this tall might reduce your broad appeal, you'll have niche appeal but you'll get way more interest from girls who're into that niche.

Sorry for wasting y'alls time with the grey question.

1775779856758
 
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I think there was a study where when they looked at long term female matrimony satisfaction, and they found that women were the happiest when there was like a 22 cm height difference. So if you're looking for a long term relationship the answer is that any taller than 22 cm taller than your crush is too tall.
YES

it starts to look uncanny and scary
 
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We know that it's possible to be too masculine dimorphic and too muscular when it comes to appealing togirls, but is there really such a thing as too tall for women?

Unless you've got a fucked up face, and you're not tall to the point where living life is a hassle (i.e being so tall that shit like certain offices and transportation are too short for you, etc.), then I don't think there's such a thing as being 'too tall' (at least personally).

Like I've still seen girls simping for dudes 6'6 and 7'0. It could be that while being this tall might reduce your broad appeal, you'll have niche appeal but you'll get way more interest from girls who're into that niche.

Sorry for wasting y'alls time with the grey question.

View attachment 4893428
i think u came from that one poll lol, imo the cut off is like 6'6
 
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i dont think theres a limit unless 10ft or smth
Nah it depends, cuz if it's like you've got a fucked up pituitary gland, which'll also affect your face n make you look ugly asl at the same time as makin ya taller ykwim?
 
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i think u came from that one poll lol, imo the cut off is like 6'6
oh lol, are you talking about the 6'7.5 hltn with good style smv score poll? if so yeah that's where this thought came from.

also i was askin on this forum specifically because i'd like to hear from someone who's been both average heigth, above average height, AND wayyy above average height (e.g 5'10 vs 6'2 vs 6'7), which is rare af but more common on .org considering how heightmaxxing is considered crucial.

i was looking for that because i'd rather get financial advice from a man that's been both poor and rich, rather than a man who's only been poor or a man who's only been rich lol
 
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We know that it's possible to be too masculine dimorphic and too muscular when it comes to appealing togirls, but is there really such a thing as too tall for women?

Unless you've got a fucked up face, and you're not tall to the point where living life is a hassle (i.e being so tall that shit like certain offices and transportation are too short for you, etc.), then I don't think there's such a thing as being 'too tall' (at least personally).

Like I've still seen girls simping for dudes 6'6 and 7'0. It could be that while being this tall might reduce your broad appeal, you'll have niche appeal but you'll get way more interest from girls who're into that niche.

Sorry for wasting y'alls time with the grey question.

View attachment 4893428
think of it as acromegaly, you need some of it to have good bone mass but too much it starts to look god awful
 
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oh lol, are you talking about the 6'7.5 hltn with good style smv score poll? if so yeah that's where this thought came from.

also i was askin on this forum specifically because i'd like to hear from someone who's been both average heigth, above average height, AND wayyy above average height (e.g 5'10 vs 6'2 vs 6'7), which is rare af but more common on .org considering how heightmaxxing is considered crucial.

i was looking for that because i'd rather get financial advice from a man that's been both poor and rich, rather than a man who's only been poor or a man who's only been rich lol
fair enough lol
 
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We know that it's possible to be too masculine dimorphic and too muscular when it comes to appealing togirls, but is there really such a thing as too tall for women?

Unless you've got a fucked up face, and you're not tall to the point where living life is a hassle (i.e being so tall that shit like certain offices and transportation are too short for you, etc.), then I don't think there's such a thing as being 'too tall' (at least personally).

Like I've still seen girls simping for dudes 6'6 and 7'0. It could be that while being this tall might reduce your broad appeal, you'll have niche appeal but you'll get way more interest from girls who're into that niche.

Sorry for wasting y'alls time with the grey question.

View attachment 4893428
Never ever ever enough
 
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I think there was a study where when they looked at long term female matrimony satisfaction, and they found that women were the happiest when there was like a 22 cm height difference. So if you're looking for a long term relationship the answer is that any taller than 22 cm taller than your crush is too tall.
 
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Solution
But I think the niche effect as you mentioned is very real, even if your SMV at 6'7 is comparable to 6'3, at 6'7 your appeal will be strongly differentiated across the population of women. Your strategy will subsequently have to be a bit different, 6'3 guys will have a nice boost with pretty much all women, but 6'7 guys will have to cash in on those girls who have a thing for height, because it won't be uncommon that girls will be put off by your large stature. But those height fetish girls will probably move heaven and earth for you since you're so rare.
 
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We know that it's possible to be too masculine dimorphic and too muscular when it comes to appealing togirls, but is there really such a thing as too tall for women?

Unless you've got a fucked up face, and you're not tall to the point where living life is a hassle (i.e being so tall that shit like certain offices and transportation are too short for you, etc.), then I don't think there's such a thing as being 'too tall' (at least personally).

Like I've still seen girls simping for dudes 6'6 and 7'0. It could be that while being this tall might reduce your broad appeal, you'll have niche appeal but you'll get way more interest from girls who're into that niche.

Sorry for wasting y'alls time with the grey question.

View attachment 4893428
I’d say anything above 6’8 is pushing it unless ur hmtn+. Obv they can still slay though just the selection will b smaller.
 
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But I think the niche effect as you mentioned is very real, even if your SMV at 6'7 is comparable to 6'3, at 6'7 your appeal will be strongly differentiated across the population of women. Your strategy will subsequently have to be a bit different, 6'3 guys will have a nice boost with pretty much all women, but 6'7 guys will have to cash in on those girls who have a thing for height, because it won't be uncommon that girls will be put off by your large stature. But those height fetish girls will probably move heaven and earth for you since you're so rare.
yep, after a point it becomes quality of the lust over quantity of how many lusting

I think there was a study where when they looked at long term female matrimony satisfaction, and they found that women were the happiest when there was like a 22 cm height difference. So if you're looking for a long term relationship the answer is that any taller than 22 cm taller than your crush is too tall.
oh, thanks. holy shit 8 and a half inches is genuinely crazy tho.
 
I think there was a study where when they looked at long term female matrimony satisfaction, and they found that women were the happiest when there was like a 22 cm height difference. So if you're looking for a long term relationship the answer is that any taller than 22 cm taller than your crush is too tall.
Why would just above the ideal be too tall? Thats been the exact difference of like everyone Ive been with so that makes sense. I’d say above a 30cm difference is about where it starts being too much.
 
yep, after a point it becomes quality of the lust over quantity of how many lusting


oh, thanks. holy shit 8 and a half inches is genuinely crazy tho.
Yup, it's pretty rough. In my country girls are on average 168 cm. So the best height should be like 190 cm for guys, which is taller than 93% of men in my country.
 
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We know that it's possible to be too masculine dimorphic and too muscular when it comes to appealing togirls, but is there really such a thing as too tall for women?

Unless you've got a fucked up face, and you're not tall to the point where living life is a hassle (i.e being so tall that shit like certain offices and transportation are too short for you, etc.), then I don't think there's such a thing as being 'too tall' (at least personally).

Like I've still seen girls simping for dudes 6'6 and 7'0. It could be that while being this tall might reduce your broad appeal, you'll have niche appeal but you'll get way more interest from girls who're into that niche.

Sorry for wasting y'alls time with the grey question.

View attachment 4893428
yup
 
Why would just above the ideal be too tall? Thats been the exact difference of like everyone Ive been with so that makes sense. I’d say above a 30cm difference is about where it starts being too much.
Well that's true it's not too tall for it to be over so to speak. But on average at that point the advantage starts to become a disadvantage.
 
We know that it's possible to be too masculine dimorphic and too muscular when it comes to appealing togirls, but is there really such a thing as too tall for women?

Unless you've got a fucked up face, and you're not tall to the point where living life is a hassle (i.e being so tall that shit like certain offices and transportation are too short for you, etc.), then I don't think there's such a thing as being 'too tall' (at least personally).

Like I've still seen girls simping for dudes 6'6 and 7'0. It could be that while being this tall might reduce your broad appeal, you'll have niche appeal but you'll get way more interest from girls who're into that niche.

Sorry for wasting y'alls time with the grey question.

View attachment 4893428
Depends on the face
 
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Yup, it's pretty rough. In my country girls are on average 168 cm. So the best height should be like 190 cm for guys, which is taller than 93% of men in my country.
yeah im somewhat above average height n im never choosing the mother of my children to be any less than 5'7 (not planning to have kids, but still). like my dad is average height, my mom is tall, and i ended up being above average, so ik that having a tall mom's important too

ideally the kid would inherit a mix of mines and hers so he has ideal dimorphism, like 70% masculine and 30% feminine face-wise without sacrificing any height.

short women pmo with a passion, they're the ones that hate short men the most, they're the ones that create short men, and they get a shit tonna attention while their looksmatch is hanging a couple meters off the ground, bless his soul.
 
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yeah im somewhat above average height n im never choosing the mother of my children to be any less than 5'7 (not planning to have kids, but still). like my dad is average height, my mom is tall, and i ended up being above average, so ik that having a tall mom's important too

ideally the kid would inherit a mix of mines and hers so he has ideal dimorphism, like 70% masculine and 30% feminine face-wise without sacrificing any height.

short women pmo with a passion, they're the ones that hate short men the most, they're the ones that create short men, and they get a shit tonna attention while their looksmatch is hanging a couple meters off the ground, bless his soul.
If you hate short girls then why do you care about very high height difference,not trying to hate or something just trying to understand
 
yeah im somewhat above average height n im never choosing the mother of my children to be any less than 5'7(not planning to have kids, but still).
Haha yeah I've thought about that, you can't go for a short girl cause you'll screw your children over

short women pmo with a passion, they're the ones that hate short men the most, they're the ones that create short men, and they get a shit tonna attention while their looksmatch is hanging a couple meters off the ground, bless his soul.
But I do think it ties back to the thing you mentioned with you wanting a girl over 5'7. There might genuinely be something subconscious in the female mind where women start craving a large height difference if their brain figures out that they are very short in their society; after all if they're like 5'0 and have kids with a guy their height then it's over for their bloodline lol. But this instinct probably won't kick in for a 5'11 girl because if she gets with a 5'11-6' guy their kids are still gonna be quite tall.
 
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If you hate short girls then why do you care about very high height difference,

oh, i personally don't care about height differences (i'd date a girl taller than me gladly, but i'd be afraid of her lusting over men even taller than her).

i'm curious about how women see height and extremes, and if it's similar to how they view things such as dimorphism and muscle mass, where having too much is a very real thing.

also me saying i hate short women is a bit of an exaggeration, i hate short women who think they 'deserve' tall men and complain about short men when they're usually the cause of short men existing.

not trying to hate or something just trying to understand
dw ur good g
 
We know that it's possible to be too masculine dimorphic and too muscular when it comes to appealing togirls, but is there really such a thing as too tall for women?

Unless you've got a fucked up face, and you're not tall to the point where living life is a hassle (i.e being so tall that shit like certain offices and transportation are too short for you, etc.), then I don't think there's such a thing as being 'too tall' (at least personally).

Like I've still seen girls simping for dudes 6'6 and 7'0. It could be that while being this tall might reduce your broad appeal, you'll have niche appeal but you'll get way more interest from girls who're into that niche.

Sorry for wasting y'alls time with the grey question.

View attachment 4893428
yes it prolly starts after 6'6 as it gets uncanny ig but there will still be some hypergamous 5'2 foid who would want nothing less than 7'0 :lul:
 
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We know that it's possible to be too masculine dimorphic and too muscular when it comes to appealing togirls, but is there really such a thing as too tall for women?

Unless you've got a fucked up face, and you're not tall to the point where living life is a hassle (i.e being so tall that shit like certain offices and transportation are too short for you, etc.), then I don't think there's such a thing as being 'too tall' (at least personally).

Like I've still seen girls simping for dudes 6'6 and 7'0. It could be that while being this tall might reduce your broad appeal, you'll have niche appeal but you'll get way more interest from girls who're into that niche.

Sorry for wasting y'alls time with the grey question.

View attachment 4893428
life starts with a long filitrum and 7'0+
 
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Haha yeah I've thought about that, you can't go for a short girl cause you'll screw your children over
yep, but there's always polygenic embryo screening (look it up if you dunno about it, you can 'choose' kids that are genetically predisposed to be taller).

But I do think it ties back to the thing you mentioned with you wanting a girl over 5'7. There might genuinely be something subconscious in the female mind where women start craving a large height difference if their brain figures out that they are very short in their society; after all if they're like 5'0 and have kids with a guy their height then it's over for their bloodline lol. But a 5'11 girl probably doesn't care as much if she's with a 5'11-6' guy because their kids are still gonna be quite tall.
yep, you're onto something. but sometimes i feel like im personally born with the mind of a woman jfl, like a girl who's taller than me, strong, dominant, a provider, etc. or maybe im js a lazy bum idfk.
 
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oh, i personally don't care about height differences (i'd date a girl taller than me gladly, but i'd be afraid of her lusting over men even taller than her).

i'm curious about how women see height and extremes, and if it's similar to how they view things such as dimorphism and muscle mass, where having too much is a very real thing.

also me saying i hate short women is a bit of an exaggeration, i hate short women who think they 'deserve' tall men and complain about short men when they're usually the cause of short men existing.


dw ur good g
I totally agree with your last point the short women (work also with ugly women) like the point of hypergamy is actually so Irritating .I think except for the face other factors like muscle mass or height being too much just bring you back to averages or even in some rare cases (7feet tall) it’s become uncanny and then will just look at your face to see if your date able
 
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I totally agree with your last point the short women (work also with ugly women) like the point of hypergamy is actually so Irritating .I think except for the face other factors like muscle mass or height being too much just bring you back to averages or even in some rare cases (7feet tall) it’s become uncanny and then will just look at your face to see if your date able
i fucking know right. and the simps make it worse too, short simps will see a chopped ass girl talking about how she wants a 6'3 guy, complain about it, then he'll simp over other mid ass girls and make them feel like they're worth 6'3 guys too :hnghn:

achievement made: how did we get here? :feelswhy:
 
yep, but there's always polygenic embryo screening (look it up if you dunno about it, you can 'choose' kids that are genetically predisposed to be taller).


yep, you're onto something. but sometimes i feel like im personally born with the mind of a woman jfl, like a girl who's taller than me, strong, dominant, a provider, etc. or maybe im js a lazy bum idfk.
I've heard of that before, I've genuinely been thinking about doing that with my kids but I think women who are willing to do that are far and in between.

Damn wtf really you are like that? Have you had any relationships with that dynamic? I really couldn't do a relationship where my girl is taller than me stronger than me takes care of everything etc. I'd feel like such a bitch I couldn't take it. It's really satisfying to own your girlfriend in a loving way like outwitting her, helping her with opening a jar, being stronger than her when play fighting etc, seeing her blush and shit when doing stuff like that makes me feel like a big boy
 
I've heard of that before, I've genuinely been thinking about doing that with my kids but I think women who are willing to do that are far and in between.
yeah it's probably weird af to most normies, no matter the gender

Damn wtf really you are like that? Have you had any relationships with that dynamic? I really couldn't do a relationship where my girl is taller than me stronger than me takes care of everything etc. I'd feel like such a bitch I couldn't take it. It's really satisfying to own your girlfriend in a loving way like outwitting her, helping her with opening a jar, being stronger than her when play fighting etc, seeing her blush and shit when doing stuff like that makes me feel like a big boy
lol i've never even had a girl show me IOIs before, im pretty chopped.

I've just got pretty bad mommy issues made worse by the fact that i do nothing but LDAR on this forum all day, which is why my taste in women is like that. im looking for a girl that can make me feel safe and appreciated in the ways my own mother never did.

so not only am i sub5 my taste in women is literally women that probably don't exist IRL :hnghn:

like the scenario you described? that's perfect to me if im in the place of the girl and my girl's in the place of you, as long as nobody's watching us cuz i get high inhib about the notion of being judged about my taste in women/seen as even more unmasculine.
 
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i fucking know right. and the simps make it worse too, short simps will see a chopped ass girl talking about how she wants a 6'3 guy, complain about it, then he'll simp over other mid ass girls and make them feel like they're worth 6'3 guys too :hnghn:

achievement made: how did we get here? :feelswhy:
fr and then if you don’t to correspond to their expectations they will treat you like a rat or a bugs :incel::feelswah:
 
fr and then if you don’t to correspond to their expectations they will treat you like a rat or a bugs :incel::feelswah:
yep and the moment you dare list your taste in a woman ('i prefer woman of ___ race over ___ race' or 'i dont wanna date a fat girl'), there's gonna be a million girls talkin bout sm 'all bodies are beautiful'.

once on tiktok i saw a literally deformed girl tryna make a thirst trap (worse than gore), and all the dudes in the comments were hating while all the other women were 'omgg she's literally so fine!' (this was months ago and my tiktok account got banned so i don't have the vid). i also saw a different thirst trap made by some ltn man, and in his comments BOTH men and women were hating.

even deformed girls feel prettier than their looksmatches.
 
yeah it's probably weird af to most normies, no matter the gender


lol i've never even had a girl show me IOIs before, im pretty chopped.

I've just got pretty bad mommy issues made worse by the fact that i do nothing but LDAR on this forum all day, which is why my taste in women is like that. im looking for a girl that can make me feel safe and appreciated in the ways my own mother never did.

so not only am i sub5 my taste in women is literally women that probably don't exist IRL :hnghn:

like the scenario you described? that's perfect to me if im in the place of the girl and my girl's in the place of you, as long as nobody's watching us cuz i get high inhib about the notion of being judged about my taste in women/seen as even more unmasculine.
Shit honestly bro I'm sorry it sounds like you've had a more difficult life than the average person. It's probably gonna be tough to find a normal girl who isn't like an alt chick into bdsm and so on for that. Maybe you can sort that out outside of the relationship you know, you can't have a great mother but you can be a great father to your kids and maybe that will give you closure. But that's just me guessing honestly I wish I could give you some kind of advice.
 
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Shit honestly bro I'm sorry it sounds like you've had a more difficult life than the average person. It's probably gonna be tough to find a normal girl who isn't like an alt chick into bdsm and so on for that. Maybe you can sort that out outside of the relationship you know, you can't have a great mother but you can be a great father to your kids and maybe that will give you closure. But that's just me guessing honestly I wish I could give you some kind of advice.
lol dw bro, you don't gotta give me advice. js used to it atp, hoping that if i hardmaxx enough maybe i'll luck out and get a girl who can at least make me feel safe and allat without actually having to be like taller than me or stronger than me (still gotta be a domme).

appreciate the effort tho bro, you're a nice guy, i hope you find someone and achieve what you're looking for in life. you deserve it. good luck wit everythin :feelsokman:
 
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yep and the moment you dare list your taste in a woman ('i prefer woman of ___ race over ___ race' or 'i dont wanna date a fat girl'), there's gonna be a million girls talkin bout sm 'all bodies are beautiful'.

once on tiktok i saw a literally deformed girl tryna make a thirst trap (worse than gore), and all the dudes in the comments were hating while all the other women were 'omgg she's literally so fine!' (this was months ago and my tiktok account got banned so i don't have the vid). i also saw a different thirst trap made by some ltn man, and in his comments BOTH men and women were hating.

even deformed girls feel prettier than their looksmatches.
And the worst is that they know that she looks disgusting but they need to seem empathic for attention and saying to themselves that they are good person when ugly men for them aren’t even in the same species as them :lul::feelswah:
 
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And the worst is that they know that she looks disgusting but they need to seem empathic for attention and saying to themselves that they are good person when ugly men for them aren’t even in the same species as them :lul::feelswah:
they're so good at lying to themselves and to others, almost the entire gender (at least the ones raised in the west) is a circle jerk tbh :lul:
 
I once saw one of them showing people and reposting a video to help kids of a war that aren’t even coralated to my country just to show that she is “empathic” while she was one of the worst person I have ever met and treated me like shi . Once she even screamed “IMAGINE LIKING “my name”” and started laughing with her succubes friend :feelswhy::feelswhy::feelswhy::feelswhy::feelswhy::feelswah:
 
lol dw bro, you don't gotta give me advice. js used to it atp, hoping that if i hardmaxx enough maybe i'll luck out and get a girl who can at least make me feel safe and allat without actually having to be like taller than me or stronger than me (still gotta be a domme).

appreciate the effort tho bro, you're a nice guy, i hope you find someone and achieve what you're looking for in life. you deserve it. good luck wit everythin :feelsokman:
Thanks bro you too:love:
 
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I once saw one of them showing people and reposting a video to help kids of a war that aren’t even coralated to my country just to show that she is “empathic” while she was one of the worst person I have ever met and treated me like shi . Once she even screamed “IMAGINE LIKING “my name”” and started laughing with her succubes friend :feelswhy::feelswhy::feelswhy::feelswhy::feelswhy::feelswah:
damn fuck them all, i wish nothing but the worst upon them. i feel for you brother.

foids are actually so two-faced, like they'll do anything for chad but treat their looksmatch like something nasty on the bottom of their shoes.

honestly i've heard of people ascending and after seeing how foids treat them, realizing that they're mostly pretty shitty people and just choosing to spend time by themselves or with close friends and avoiding LTRs.
 
damn fuck them all, i wish nothing but the worst upon them. i feel for you brother.

foids are actually so two-faced, like they'll do anything for chad but treat their looksmatch like something nasty on the bottom of their shoes.

honestly i've heard of people ascending and after seeing how foids treat them, realizing that they're mostly pretty shitty people and just choosing to spend time by themselves or with close friends and avoiding LTRs.
Thanks tbf I’ve looked a lil better since that and foids seems to treat me less like an insect and more like a dog .Looks are really the most important things for foids .90percent of them will not treat you like a human if you don’t correspond their delusions criteria (tbf it’s even more)showing that they are awful people in every sens.
 
We know that it's possible to be too masculine dimorphic and too muscular when it comes to appealing togirls, but is there really such a thing as too tall for women?

Unless you've got a fucked up face, and you're not tall to the point where living life is a hassle (i.e being so tall that shit like certain offices and transportation are too short for you, etc.), then I don't think there's such a thing as being 'too tall' (at least personally).

Like I've still seen girls simping for dudes 6'6 and 7'0. It could be that while being this tall might reduce your broad appeal, you'll have niche appeal but you'll get way more interest from girls who're into that niche.

Sorry for wasting y'alls time with the grey question.

View attachment 4893428
Yeah for sure 6’6 is like peak height anything more is medical issues and uncanny look it still is more desirable then 5’0
 
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Thanks tbf I’ve looked a lil better since that and foids seems to treat me less like an insect and more like a dog .Looks are really the most important things for foids .90percent of them will not treat you like a human if you don’t correspond their delusions criteria (tbf it’s even more)showing that they are awful people in every sens.
mirin the improvement. learning that women are just as visual as men is one of the most brutal pills OAT to swallow. who the fuck even came up with the idea of spreading the notion that it's all about confidence and being a jester if you're a guy tryna pull a hot girl?
 
mirin the improvement. learning that women are just as visual as men is one of the most brutal pills OAT to swallow. who the fuck even came up with the idea of spreading the notion that it's all about confidence and being a jester if you're a guy tryna pull a hot girl?
The idea of being a jester horrify me but I still do it knowing that ts doesn’t even work a lil bit but I can’t do other things than that because of my anxiety and social skills but I’m really thinking about stopping ts since this gave me no girls no real friends and a bad image
 
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The idea of being a jester horrify me but I still do it knowing that ts doesn’t even work a lil bit but I can’t do other things than that because of my anxiety and social skills but I’m really thinking about stopping ts since this gave me no girls no real friends and a bad image
But I think I’m gonna wait the end of this year beacause I already have this miserable image to my dog status
 
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The idea of being a jester horrify me but I still do it knowing that ts doesn’t even work a lil bit but I can’t do other things than that because of my anxiety and social skills but I’m really thinking about stopping ts since this gave me no girls no real friends and a bad image
c'mon bro you're better than putting yourself down for others' validation.

But I think I’m gonna wait the end of this year beacause I already have this miserable image to my dog status
good luck with that man, i really hope that works out for you. shit you're going through sounds terrible, and you did nothing to deserve it.
 
good luck with that man, i really hope that works out for you. shit you're going through sounds terrible, and you did nothing to deserve it.
Thanks bro I guess that’s the fate of this universe .Hope your doing well too if you want to talk I’m open
 
  • +1
Reactions: primal_shitmuncher
Your totally right and the worst things is that I don’t even have their validation.
anytime you're about to jester you should try stopping and taking 5 seconds to imagine how they'll react, ask yourself whether it's actually gonna help you get anywhere in life, and act accordingly. it's gonna be a habit that you have to build up, i used to be the biggest fucking jester in middle school and now im only a jester (even then barely a jester) with people im close with
 

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