Is this what I need to ascend to 8/10

[Deleted member 3962]

u just need hair halo, CCW and a new nose and eye area to become gl

 

[Deleted member 4671]

Take it one surgery at a time. Bimax initially, then see what you next failo is. You are correct that you would want CCW in regards to the mandible. Consult with a reputable surgeon, bimax will probably be the most expensive surgery you get. But it's the one you want to get first. It sets the basis for everything else.

he needs ccw look how shit is gonial angle is mate

Here you go.


View attachment 325368

what app is that

 

[Moneymaxxed]

Honestly it depends, look at o'pry and Delon that's why they look insane because of their chin wide/tall chin = giga mogger. You might not be able to pull it off because of your Tiny mid face.

You could achieve it by genioplasty or chin-wing.

I don’t understand why people are saying he has a compact midface, seems average

 

[ScramFranklin]

he needs ccw look how shit is gonial angle is mate

Due to where the incision is made during jaw surgery, the gonial angle is not affected. But the mandibular angle is affected from rotating the jaw. The corner where the ramus and mandible meets (gonial angle) is not changed since the cut is further down the mandible.

And my own post you quoted, I already say that he needs CCW lol.

 

[lookismfugee]

ur only legit flaw is eye area tbh. u will be ok

 

[Deleted member 5694]

Due to where the incision is made during jaw surgery, the gonial angle is not affected. But the mandibular angle is affected from rotating the jaw. The corner where the ramus and mandible meets (gonial angle) is not changed since the cut is further down the mandible.

And my own post you quoted, I already say that he needs CCW lol.

What’s CCW surgery? I thought it was part of BiMax

 

[ScramFranklin]

It CAN be part of bimax. All bimax means is the movement of both jaws. There can be various rotations as well for the lower jaw during double jaw surgery. CCW or CW rotation. Different people will need one of the other, or no rotation at all. Your surgeon (if he is competent), will likely want to perform CCW on you mandible.

 

[JustTrynaGrow]

Your biggest failios are lack of cheekbones and a ressesed chin.

Nothing else is specifically bad. These two are just extremely important. Rhino should be at the bottom of your list tbh..

 

[ScramFranklin]

ROTATION OF THE OCCLUSAL PLANE

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Changes in occlusal plane through orthognathic surgery

INTRODUCTION: A conventional ortho-surgical treatment, although with good clinical results, does...

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[Artturih]

Bimax ccw (LeFort 2 if possible), minoxidil, Yaremchuk implants everywhere including orbital rims, Taban lower eyelid retraction or whatever gives hunter eyes, hairline lowering, rhino, eyebrow fillers to lower them, blue contacts, gain muscleView attachment 320599View attachment 320600

You should try mewing first. Are you a nose breather?

 

[ScramFranklin]

Your biggest failios are lack of cheekbones and a ressesed chin.

Nothing else is specifically bad. These two are just extremely important. Rhino should be at the bottom of your list tbh..

His whole mandible is downward grown. A genioplasty isn't enough, he needs jaw surgery with accompanying CCW.

 

[Almu]

The second is just the lower third

 

[ScramFranklin]

View attachment 332078
The second is just the lower third

OP, pretend the back of the jaw is the center of a clock. And the jawline that goes out from there is the hand of the clock. CCW (counter clockwise rotation) is just moving that hand back (say from the "5" on the clock to the "4".

CW rotation would be the opposite. Does that make sense? Almu's morph shows (in general), how CCW rotation would affect your face.

 

[Deleted member 5694]

His whole mandible is downward grown. A genioplasty isn't enough, he needs jaw surgery with accompanying CCW.

By jaw surgery do u mean chin wing or bimax?

 

[Almu]

By jaw surgery do u mean chin wing or bimax?

CCW

 

[ScramFranklin]

By jaw surgery do u mean chin wing or bimax?

jaw surgery is either BSSO, Lefort 1, or both (bimax). The movement of the lower jaw (mandible) can have accompanying rotations (CCW or CW).

 

[Deleted member 5694]

CCW

Is that when they cut the maxilla?

jaw surgery is either BSSO, Lefort 1, or both (bimax). The movement of the lower jaw (mandible) can have accompanying rotations (CCW or CW).

So do I need bimax or no because you recommended chin wing earlier

 

[ScramFranklin]

Is that when they cut the maxilla?

So do I need bimax or no because you recommended chin wing earlier

No, I Did Not recommend chin wing. Yes, you need bimax, as I have said several times. Did you read the links I sent? Did you read the explanations I'm saying? I'm breaking this all down for you so you actually understand what the various surgeries and rotations are. I literally just posted links and an explanation of what CCW is.

A Lefort 1 is the movement of the maxilla.

I'm trying to help you but it doesn't seem like you are paying attention.

 

[Deleted member 5694]

No, I Did Not recommend chin wing. Yes, you need bimax, as I have said several times. Did you read the links I sent? Did you read the explanations I'm saying? I'm breaking this all down for you so you actually understand what the various surgeries and rotations are. I literally just posted links and an explanation of what CCW is.

A Lefort 1 is the movement of the maxilla.

Ah I might be thinking of someone else my bad.

 

[Almu]

No, I Did Not recommend chin wing. Yes, you need bimax, as I have said several times. Did you read the links I sent? Did you read the explanations I'm saying? I'm breaking this all down for you so you actually understand what the various surgeries and rotations are. I literally just posted links and an explanation of what CCW is.

A Lefort 1 is the movement of the maxilla.

I'm trying to help you but it doesn't seem like you are paying attention.

He doesnt need bimax.

 

[ScramFranklin]

He doesnt need bimax.

He needs BSSO at the very least. Whether or not he also needs a lefort 1 will depend on his cephalometric analysis and bite. And if the mandible is rotated CCW with the BSSO, there is a good chance the maxilla may need to be moved, expanded, etc. Which would obviously mean bimax.

 

[Deleted member 5694]

He needs BSSO at the very least. Whether or not he also needs a lefort 1 will depend on his cephalometric analysis and bite. And if the mandible is rotated through BSSO, there is a good chance the maxilla may need to be moved, expanded, etc.

I’ll aim for bimax, and the CCW should help my subhuman ramus right?

 

[ScramFranklin]

I’ll aim for bimax, and the CCW should help my subhuman ramus right?

Yes, the reason I said bimax, is because changes to the mandible through BSSO will likely mean the maxilla will have to move in some shape or form as well (lefort 1).

CCW won't change the ramus or gonial angle. BSSO (the movement of the lower jaw/mandible) with CCW (the accompanying rotation of the lower jaw/mandible) WILL change the mandibular angle. This is due to where the cut is made during the BSSO. It's further forward from the gonion.

 

[Deleted member 5694]

Yes, the reason I said bimax, is because changes to the mandible through BSSO will likely mean the maxilla will have to move in some shape or form as well (lefort 1).

CCW won't change the ramus or gonial angle. BSSO (the movement of the lower jaw/mandible) with CCW (the accompanying rotation of the lower jaw/mandible) WILL change the mandibular angle. This is due to where the cut is made during the BSSO. It's further forward from the gonion.

Ok cool that makes sense, I’ll ask my surgeon about jaw angle implants cos he does them too

 

[Merlix]

Yes, the reason I said bimax, is because changes to the mandible through BSSO will likely mean the maxilla will have to move in some shape or form as well (lefort 1).

CCW won't change the ramus or gonial angle. BSSO (the movement of the lower jaw/mandible) with CCW (the accompanying rotation of the lower jaw/mandible) WILL change the mandibular angle. This is due to where the cut is made during the BSSO. It's further forward from the gonion.

Changing the mandibular angle sounds bad vs. Changing gonial angle via custom jaw implant. Can also increase ramus length with vertical jaw implant and improve definition beyond anything bimax could achieve. Only reason to do bimax is to move out maxilla and accompany with jaw. Even ccw is a poor option vs jaw implant since the result won't be as good. I've seen totally recessed Jaws get amazing makeovers with a jaw implant. Rarely have I seen an amazing bimax result for jaw definition. Mainly it turns a subhuman into a normie but nothing more. If you're already a normie it seems sort of pointless vs. Jaw implant option.

 

[ScramFranklin]

Ok cool that makes sense, I’ll ask my surgeon about jaw angle implants cos he does them too

Get the jaw surgery before you do any implants. Your gonial angle might be fine. I say that because we can't tell without a ceph. For example... starting at my gonion, my mandible is very flat. However, after a centimeter or two, it takes a steeper slope downwards. So that downward slope portion can give the false impression of a very obtuse gonial angle. It's just hard to tell without seeing the actual bone without the soft tissue and skin hiding it.

Also: jaw surgery is an art and a science. See the most competent surgeon you can.

 

[Deleted member 5694]

Changing the mandibular angle sounds bad vs. Changing gonial angle via custom jaw implant. Can also increase ramus length with vertical jaw implant and improve definition beyond anything bimax could achieve. Only reason to do bimax is to move out maxilla and accompany with jaw. Even ccw is a poor option vs jaw implant since the result won't be as good. I've seen totally recessed Jaws get amazing makeovers with a jaw implant. Rarely have I seen an amazing bimax result for jaw definition. Mainly it turns a subhuman into a normie but nothing more. If you're already a normie it seems sort of pointless vs. Jaw implant option.

I intend to get implants after fixing recessed jaws for more aesthetic results

 

[Almu]

Do you have class 1 bite ?

 

[ScramFranklin]

Changing the mandibular angle sounds bad vs. Changing gonial angle via custom jaw implant. Can also increase ramus length with vertical jaw implant and improve definition beyond anything bimax could achieve. Only reason to do bimax is to move out maxilla and accompany with jaw. Even ccw is a poor option vs jaw implant since the result won't be as good. I've seen totally recessed Jaws get amazing makeovers with a jaw implant. Rarely have I seen an amazing bimax result for jaw definition. Mainly it turns a subhuman into a normie but nothing more. If you're already a normie it seems sort of pointless vs. Jaw implant option.

His mandibular angle is too steep and his mandible is recessed. I realize that implants can change the ramus length, but he needs JAW SURGERY FIRST. An implant over a underlying recessed jaw looks like shit. He may not even need implants, we will have to wait and see what he looks like after jaw surgery. Moving the mandible should tighten the loose skin and alter the soft tissue so that we can get a better impression of what his posterior jaw even looks like. OP DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS GUY.

 

[Deleted member 5694]

Get the jaw surgery before you do any implants. Your gonial angle might be fine. I say that because we can't tell without a ceph. For example... starting at my gonion, my mandible is very flat. However, after a centimeter or two, it takes a steeper slope downwards. So that downward slope portion can give the false impression of a very obtuse gonial angle. It's just hard to tell without seeing the actual bone without the soft tissue and skin hiding it.

Also: jaw surgery is an art and a science. See the most competent surgeon you can.

I’ll probably go to Andreishchev as he gives good results, is well known and is educated on aesthetic orthognatic surgery

Do you have class 1 bite ?

Very slight overbite

His mandibular angle is too steep and his mandible is recessed. I realize that implants can change the ramus length, but he needs JAW SURGERY FIRST. An implant over a underlying recessed jaw looks like shit. He may not even need implants, we will have to wait and see what he looks like after jaw surgery. Moving the mandible should tighten the loose skin and alter the soft tissue so that we can get a better impression of what his posterior jaw even looks like. OP DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS GUY.

Dw I’m uneducated but not retarded I’ll get my bones in the right place before considering implants

 

[Merlix]

His mandibular angle is too steep and his mandible is recessed. I realize that implants can change the ramus length, but he needs JAW SURGERY FIRST. An implant over a underlying recessed jaw looks like shit. He may not even need implants, we will have to wait and see what he looks like after jaw surgery. Moving the mandible should tighten the loose skin and alter the soft tissue so that we can get a better impression of what his posterior jaw even looks like. OP DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS GUY.

His mandibular angle is too steep and his mandible is recessed. I realize that implants can change the ramus length, but he needs JAW SURGERY FIRST. An implant over a underlying recessed jaw looks like shit. He may not even need implants, we will have to wait and see what he looks like after jaw surgery. Moving the mandible should tighten the loose skin and alter the soft tissue so that we can get a better impression of what his posterior jaw even looks like. OP DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS GUY.

I'm pretty sure all the best before/after involved a recessed jaw. Are you telling me that if I asked eppley or yaremchuk, a maxfac and PS, whether a bimax is necessary prior to getting custom jaw implants for those with recessed jaws they will say yes? Or do you think they'll straight up lie to me and say no?

 

[ScramFranklin]

I'm pretty sure all the best before/after involved a recessed jaw. Are you telling me that if I asked eppley or yaremchuk, a maxfac and PS, whether a bimax is necessary prior to getting custom jaw implants for those with recessed jaws they will say yes? Or do you think they'll straight up lie to me and say no?

Well Eppley may not be 100% truthful you, if you do indeed need jaw surgery. Because he said my jaws "aren't particularly" recessed and I did not need bimax. Which is completely false, as both of my jaws are recessed and fall below cephalometric norms by more than a standard deviation.

I never stated, "a bimax is necessary prior to getting custom jaw implants for those with recessed jaws ". You can get implants. But it's not fixing the underlying problem, will most likely look overly bulky and lack harmony. Not to mention the health problems down the road associated with recessed jaws. Go look at those links I posted on page 2, and let me know if you think they'd look fine if they just slapped implants on instead.

 

[Deleted member 5694]

I'm pretty sure all the best before/after involved a recessed jaw. Are you telling me that if I asked eppley or yaremchuk, a maxfac and PS, whether a bimax is necessary prior to getting custom jaw implants for those with recessed jaws they will say yes? Or do you think they'll straight up lie to me and say no?

They’ll say yes because they want jew money. And they’re not necessary, none of this is necessary