It is still baffling how people do not understand what facial harmony is

[Deleted member 26678]

it’s just how many ratios and angles that a face is within the ideal of

there are set ranges of proportions that have been proven to be ideal

if a face falls within the proper criteria the face has good facial harmony

that’s it


still the amount of people who think facial harmony is a magical unexplainable phenomenon especially still on this site is unbelievable considering how simple of a concept it is

example:

View attachment 2215184
Nope
Good ratios shit harmony

elias de poot (the guy in the picture) has incredible facial harmony:

First Up, Elias Depoot (7)

View attachment 1536368
ESR: 47% (Ideal)
FWHR: 2.04 (Ideal)
Midface: 1:1 (Wow, perfect)
Chin to Philtrum: 2.47 (Ideal)
Mouth to Nose: 1.69 (Too High, Flaw #1. You guys have no idea, but this is the reason why he looks "Gay", extremely feminine ratio.)
Lower to Upper Lip Ratio: 1.53 (Ideal)
Zygomatic to Bigonial Width: 88% (Ideal)
Bitemporal to Zygomatic Width: 85% (Ideal)
Facial 3rds: (Ideal) Although they aren't all equal. His lower 3rd is the largest, and middle the shortest. Masculine facial 3rds. His 4hed his not big...
Total FWHR: 1.36 (Ideal)
-----------------
3/4ths
View attachment 1536396
Ogee Curve is great, not too forward. Very High set.
Some of the best Zygomatic Arches in human history.
---------------------------
Side Profile
View attachment 1536403

(For the sake of time, I wont be listing each angle here. There's still the pics as usual, and will have "Ideal" in the photo if so vice versa.)
(Halfway thru Depoot, there's NO FUCKING WAY im doing pics for all off them, sorry. If an angle looks "off", I'll remeasure and show a picture. lol.)

Hope Depoot fans are happy, he's the only one getting pictures.
-------------------------------------------
Features

Eye Area/
Pros:
PCT (5.6°)
Slight Positive & Dark Eyebrows
Almond Shape
White Sclera
Deep Set
PFL to Height Ratio is 3.44 great.

Cons:
Fully Hooded eyes causing Eyelashes 404. Even though in his side profile pic, you can see he has good lashes, just covered by hooding. (Flaw #3)

Nose/
Pros: Everything about it, maybe the best nose I'll see today.

Mouth/
Pros:
Oral Commissures are within the Iris
Good lips, hence the good ratio
Coloring's good.
Good Cupids Bow.

Cons:
Squiggly Lip Seal (Resting postion of the lips. Should be perfectly straight. My last reasoning for why he looks "Gay") (Flaw #4)

Chin/Jaw:

Pros:
God Tier Chin
Great Ramus (Guys, it doesn't have to be like Hexum's to be good)
Straight Gonions.

Cons:
None

SYMMETRY: Amazing, this is super important, I'm not sparring any super assymetrical faces.

Quick Recap. Of all I measured, Depoot Has 4 Objective Flaws stopping him from being perfect (Could be more duh, but definetly not more than 5).
1. Mouth to Nose Ratio.
2. Bad Nasal Angle.
3. Fully Hooded Eyes.
4. Sqiggly Lip Seal.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Up next, Hernan Drago(7) (Wont be grading his skin or hairline, he's 40+).
View attachment 1536518
FWHR: 2 (Ideal)
ESR: 44% (Unideal) Flaw #1 and one of the reasons why he looks "Ogre"
Midface Ratio: .92 (Unideal) Flaw #2 another reason for his "Ogre" look.
Chin to Philtrum Ratio: 2.90 (Unideal) Flaw #3 (Male Gaze nigg*s on suicide watch. His chin is just too big. Chill though, his flaws are coming to a halting stop
Mouth to Nose Ratio: 1.45 (Ideal)
Lower to Upper Lip Ratio: 1.93 (Ideal)
Zygomatic to Gonial Width: 90% (Ideal)
Bitemporal to Zygomatic Width: 86% (Ideal)
Facial 3rds: (Ideal Masculine Distribution)
Total FWHR: 1.3 (Ideal)

3/4th:
View attachment 1536571
Every good thing I've said over and over.

Side Profile:
(This is the best pic I could find.)
View attachment 1536572
All of the angles here are amazing, rest assured.

----------------------------------
Features:

Eyes/
Pros:
3° PCT
Slight Positve Tilt & Dark Eyebrows
Almond Shape
White Sclera
Deep Set
PFL to Height Ratio is 3.84 great

Cons:
Fully Hooded Causing Eyelash 404 (Flaw #4)

Nose/
Pros: Everything
Cons: Don't Exist

Mouth/
Pros:
Oral Commissures are within the Iris
Fair Lips, but good ratio so they pass the test.
Good shape & Lip seal
Good coloring

Cons: None.

Chin/Jaw:
Pros:
Aside from it's size, it's a very good chin.
Straight Gonions
A somewhat short ramus, but what really decides that for me is the gonial angle, and his is ideal at 112.5°

Symmetry: Very Good.

Quick Recap. 4 Flaws.
1. Cyclop ESR
2. A .20 off the Ideal range of .94 to 1.1 Midface (Remeasured 5x)
3. Ogre Chin to Philtrum Ratio
4. Fully Hooded Eyes.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alain's Turn (7).

View attachment 1536614


FWHR: 2 (Ideal)
ESR: 45.4% (Almost a cyclop, but Ideal)
Midface Ratio: .97 (Ideal)
Chin to Philtrum Ratio: 2.27 (Ideal)
Mouth to Nose Ratio: 1.58 (Ideal)
Lower to Upper Lip Ratio: 2.4 (Unideal, his top lip is 404) Flaw #1
Zygomatic to Gonial Width: 88% (Ideal)
Bitemporal to Zygomatic Width: 89% (Ideal)
Facial 3rds: (Unideal) When they aren't all equal, the order should go (Mid, Top, Lower in terms of what 3rd is the shortest vs longest.)
His are Top, Mid, Lower. Flaw #2 (This is why a 3 finger forehead isn't ideal, called 4hed for a reason)
Total FWHR: 1.31 (Ideal)

3/4ths:
View attachment 1536659
For men, the Ogee Curve is more of a plus. I'm worried about the Zygomatic Arch and it's prominence. Alain takes this one.

Side Profile:

View attachment 1536671


Only thing wrong here is the 126.7° Gonial Angle. Flaw #3

-----------------------------------
Features:

Eyes/
Pros:
Minimal UEE letting the eyelashes show.
3.5° PCT
Deep Set
White Sclera
Slight Positive Dark Eyebrows
Almond Shape

Cons:
PFL to Height Ratio is only 2.87 Flaw #4

Nose/
Pros: Yes
Cons: None

Mouth/
Pros:
Oral Commissures are within the Iris
Good coloring

Cons:
Already mentioned the size
Assymetrical Lip Seal (Flaw #5). This shit is not okay Alain...

Chin/Jaw:
Pros:
Everything.

No Cons.

Symmetry: Everything, but the Lip Seal is symmetrical to the human eye.

Quick Recap.
1. Lower to Upper Lip Ratio
2. Facial 3rds.
3. 126.7° Gonial Angle (1.67° out the Ideal lol)
4. PFL to Height is only 2.87
5. Lip Seal.

just because you think he looks weird doesn't mean he has 'shit harmony'

 

[eduardkoopman]

Averageness?

https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.3758/BF03196599.pdf

 

[Deleted member 26678]

Averageness?

https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.3758/BF03196599.pdf

the simple answer to why averageness is attractive is because averaged faces are more likely to have ideal proportions (ratios angles, etc.)

i explain that and the rest of the factors that comprise beauty here:

Here Are The Factors Are That Make Up Beauty

Proportions when it comes to aesthetics there are established canons and ratios of the face and body that have been proven through science to be ideal these ideal proportions appear to be hereditary because infants have been shown to express preference for attractive faces as opposed to...

looksmax.org

 

[longjohnmong]

no it's not. there is no "ideal." harmony functions like harmony in other realms of aesthetics. if you studied car design, you'd find that some designs are more harmonious that others. does that mean there is some "ideal" car? what about flavors? why do some flavors taste good together because they're close to some ideal blend of flavors?

 

[Deleted member 26678]

no it's not. there is no "ideal." harmony functions like harmony in other realms of aesthetics. if you studied car design, you'd find that some designs are more harmonious that others. does that mean there is some "ideal" car? what about flavors? why do some flavors taste good together because they're close to some ideal blend of flavors?

oh god not you again

i am not doing this again

 

[longjohnmong]

oh god not you again

i am not doing this again

lol at making the exact same thread and then getting upset that your retarded idea gets shot down again

 

[Deleted member 26678]

lol at making the exact same thread and then getting upset that your retarded idea gets shot down again

i cited literature that proves that there are aesthetic ideals proving its not random like you say

im not doing it again

 

[longjohnmong]

cited literature that proves that there are aesthetic ideals proving its not random like you say

im not doing it again

no ideal ≠ random

 

[AsGoodAsItGets]

it’s just how many ratios and angles that a face is within the ideal of

there are set ranges of proportions that have been proven to be ideal

if a face falls within the proper criteria the face has good facial harmony

that’s it


still the amount of people who think facial harmony is a magical unexplainable phenomenon especially still on this site is unbelievable considering how simple of a concept it is

example:



elias de poot (the guy in the picture) has incredible facial harmony:



just because you think he looks weird doesn't mean he has 'shit harmony'

Good thread chrollo

 

[AsGoodAsItGets]

no it's not. there is no "ideal." harmony functions like harmony in other realms of aesthetics. if you studied car design, you'd find that some designs are more harmonious that others. does that mean there is some "ideal" car? what about flavors? why do some flavors taste good together because they're close to some ideal blend of flavors?

The 8C was called the most beautiful car.

Of course, I'm trying to understand this more, so I'm just providing a point to illustrate a flaw in your own argument.

 

[AsGoodAsItGets]

no ideal ≠ random

True

 

[AsGoodAsItGets]

it’s just how many ratios and angles that a face is within the ideal of

there are set ranges of proportions that have been proven to be ideal

if a face falls within the proper criteria the face has good facial harmony

that’s it


still the amount of people who think facial harmony is a magical unexplainable phenomenon especially still on this site is unbelievable considering how simple of a concept it is

example:



elias de poot (the guy in the picture) has incredible facial harmony:



just because you think he looks weird doesn't mean he has 'shit harmony'

Will have to go through Koreas work later...

 

[User49]

de poots harmony isn’t incredible

exocanthion way too high paired with super high pct

+ sparse brows + no tan no ramus + downturned mouth + ridiculous facial depth/frontal bone + supra forward growth too much imo makes him have a constant shadow over his eyes if yk what i mean

pretty sure his face is slightly too narrow iirc

Korea is retarded and measured barretts es as 0.49

 

[longjohnmong]

The 8C was called the most beautiful car.

Of course, I'm trying to understand this more, so I'm just providing a point to illustrate a flaw in your own argument.

no ideal ≠ no most beautiful

OP is saying there's one perfect facial ideal and everything is defined on how closely it comes to that. So in your example, if the 8C was the most beautiful car, all cars that closely resemble the 8C would be attractive and the farther you deviate from the 8Cs shape, the uglier the car would be. So like the Hyundai Tiburon would be indisputably better looking than the Rolls Royce Phantom, which would be objectively more attractive than a Duesenberg. Clearly that's not the case. Look up a list of most beautiful cars ever. They're not all hovering around the 8C shape or some other Platonic ideal.

The 10 Most Beautiful Cars According to Leading Automotive Designers

These stunning cars were deemed the most beautiful by more than 20 leading automotive designers.

www.caranddriver.com

 

[AsGoodAsItGets]

no ideal ≠ no most beautiful

OP is saying there's one perfect facial ideal and everything is defined on how closely it comes to that. So in your example, if the 8C was the most beautiful car, all cars that closely resemble the 8C would be attractive and the farther you deviate from the 8Cs shape, the uglier the car would be. So like the Hyundai Tiburon would be indisputably better looking than the Rolls Royce Phantom, which would objectively more attractive than a Duesenberg. Clearly that's not the case. Look up a list of most beautiful cars ever. They're not all hovering around the 8C shape or some other Platonic ideal.

The 10 Most Beautiful Cars According to Leading Automotive Designers

These stunning cars were deemed the most beautiful by more than 20 leading automotive designers.

www.caranddriver.com

The whole looksmax movement was built on the ideal face mesh (from lookism) which users superimposed to see their potential.

I hear what you are saying, but in terms of a prescription, chrollo and the whole black pill have a better proposal. (In terms of what to strive for)

I could not be arsed about the semantics. I'm only here to ascend.

Because in some ways, both of you are saying the same thing.

If not, explain.

I've thrown around harmony too.

By the way, there is in fact a prescription for beautiful cars.

I know because I studied industrial design.

And analysis of designs provide insights into why things are beautiful.

But like I said, sometimes you just draw ahit and it looks good.

Later when you analyze it, the ratios ans math match.

And to your point, there is a massive difference in hows design houses operate in terms of process.

The Italians do it different from the Brits.

The French

Germans.

Japanese.

Americans.

The process is completely different, but the fundamentals are the same.

Which would explain “harmony”....

?

 

[longjohnmong]

I don't see how we're saying the same thing but whatever.

By the way, there is in fact a prescription for beautiful cars.

Yeah, I'm not saying there aren't prescriptions. There are also prescriptions in music, but then musical geniuses come along and break the rules. There's even a saying "first you have to know the rules in order to break them." You find this sort of thing in all areas of aesthetics.

I don't even necessarily disagree on practical grounds. Trying to get close to the "ideal" is probably the safest way to looksmax. This would be following the rules. We don't know enough about the rules in order to break them in a way that will work.

But this isn't a practical thread. OP is making an argument about what harmony is. I disagree.

 

[Deleted member 26678]

de poots harmony isn’t incredible

exocanthion way too high paired with super high pct

+ sparse brows + no tan no ramus + downturned mouth + ridiculous facial depth/frontal bone + supra forward growth too much imo makes him have a constant shadow over his eyes if yk what i mean

pretty sure his face is slightly too narrow iirc

Korea is retarded and measured barretts es as 0.49

his pct and exocanthion are feminine but that’s not a failo

calling his brows sparse is harsh af but they could be darker and more dense ideally, whites don’t need to tan, his ramus to mandible body is good, his mouth isn’t downturned, you’re coping with too much forward growth, and his total fwhr is good

even granted that everything you said was off he would still have incredible facial harmony

i’m not saying korea’s word is gospel but he took basic inventory of de poot’s ratios so i just provided it

 

[Deleted member 26678]

But this isn't a practical thread. OP is making an argument about what harmony is. I disagree.

your argument is that it’s too complex to quantify the ratios

i’m saying that we at least have enough of the math figured out to determine what quantifies facial harmony (not just me saying this, this is the overwheming majority consensus amongst people who study aesthetics)

either way you conceded that there is an ideal:

I don't even necessarily disagree on practical grounds. Trying to get close to the "ideal" is probably the safest way to looksmax.

so what exactly are you trying to say

 

[longjohnmong]

your argument is that it’s too complex to quantify the ratios

i’m saying that we at least have enough of the math figured out to determine what quantifies facial harmony (not just me saying this, this is the overwheming majority consensus amongst people who study aesthetics)

either way you conceded that there is an ideal:



so what exactly are you trying to say

 

[Lebgfinal]

no it's not. there is no "ideal." harmony functions like harmony in other realms of aesthetics. if you studied car design, you'd find that some designs are more harmonious that others. does that mean there is some "ideal" car? what about flavors? why do some flavors taste good together because they're close to some ideal blend of flavors?

You make a large point there, while ideal may follow some charateristics, an "objective" ideal doesn't mean it will be harmonious.

 

[cancercell]

bump

 

[william2605]

it’s just how many ratios and angles that a face is within the ideal of

there are set ranges of proportions that have been proven to be ideal

if a face falls within the proper criteria the face has good facial harmony

that’s it


still the amount of people who think facial harmony is a magical unexplainable phenomenon especially still on this site is unbelievable considering how simple of a concept it is

example:



elias de poot (the guy in the picture) has incredible facial harmony:



just because you think he looks weird doesn't mean he has 'shit harmony'

Lacks about 6-7 mm of eyelid exposure Broke eye harmony and eyes 60% of face
+ some ratios off

 

[AsGoodAsItGets]

I don't see how we're saying the same thing but whatever.


Yeah, I'm not saying there aren't prescriptions. There are also prescriptions in music, but then musical geniuses come along and break the rules. There's even a saying "first you have to know the rules in order to break them." You find this sort of thing in all areas of aesthetics.

I don't even necessarily disagree on practical grounds. Trying to get close to the "ideal" is probably the safest way to looksmax. This would be following the rules. We don't know enough about the rules in order to break them in a way that will work.

But this isn't a practical thread. OP is making an argument about what harmony is. I disagree.

Yeah basically so, “Wtf do women want?!!”

 

[Deleted member 26678]

Lacks about 6-7 mm of eyelid exposure Broke eye harmony and eyes 60% of face
+ some ratios off

0 eyelid exposure is ideal on men

 

[william2605]

0 eyelid exposure is ideal on men

His eyes harmony is off

 

[Deleted member 26678]

His eyes harmony is off

care to explain why

 

[william2605]

care to explain why

You need perfectly balanced features ,
Elias has alien eyes due too pct
And extremely hooded eyes
With a strange eyebrows ,plus is exagerated bone structure.
That’s broken his harmony in my opinion.

 

[Deleted member 29581]

You need perfectly balanced features ,
Elias has alien eyes due too pct
And extremely hooded eyes
With a strange eyebrows ,plus is exagerated bone structure.
That’s broken his harmony in my opinion.

 

[Deleted member 26678]

You need perfectly balanced features ,
Elias has alien eyes due too pct
And extremely hooded eyes
With a strange eyebrows ,plus is exagerated bone structure.
That’s broken his harmony in my opinion.

none of the things you mentioned are flaws

ig he is unironically too good looking and it throws some people off, especially his intense eye area

 

[william2605]

none of the things you mentioned are flaws

ig he is unironically too good looking and it throws some people off, especially his intense eye area

in both cases it is a flaw
either too pronounced or too ugly