It's only about LF + implants at this point

[Mastermind]

MSE widens your nose and fucks up your IPD, zero potential improvements unless your face is way too narrow.

Facepulling is mewing-tier cope, still ZERO reliable proof of it working in 2021.

You can only find complains about teeth getting fucked, malocclusions appearing out of nowhere and shit aching. Not even the slightest improvement. Utter cope.

The name of the game is LEFORT OR DEATH, get your racks up because you either get surgery or it's over.

 

[Deleted member 7776]

I need a wider mouth and palate tho. MSE is golden for that. And it causes 3mm lateral zygo expansion on each side according to my ortho anyway.

 

[Deleted member 8583]

I need a wider mouth and palate tho. MSE is golden for that. And it causes 3mm lateral zygo expansion on each side according to my ortho anyway.

cant u get wider mouth and palate through a normal SARPE without fucking ur IPD and es ratio

 

[Deleted member 7776]

cant u get wider mouth and palate through a normal SARPE without fucking ur IPD and es ratio

Translate that for me tbh. So basically if I have average IPD then would MSE give me close-set eyes? Or wide-set fish eyes like those of Brett Maverick?

Also what's ES ratio if not IPD?

 

[Deleted member 9989]

Chin wing or die

 

[LILMAXILLA]

The name of the game is LEFORT OR DEATH, get your racks up because you either get surgery or it's over.

 

[Deleted member 8583]

Translate that for me tbh. So basically if I have average IPD then would MSE give me close-set eyes? Or wide-set fish eyes like those of Brett Maverick?

Also what's ES ratio if not IPD?

Eye separation ratio is IPD / Bizygo width. Ideal is 0.45-0.47. If ur just about in this range then don't get MSE it'll fuck ur ES ratio and make u look like u have close set eyes. Measure ur ES ratio before u go through with mse

 

[SoyGune]

Translate that for me tbh. So basically if I have average IPD then would MSE give me close-set eyes? Or wide-set fish eyes like those of Brett Maverick?

Also what's ES ratio if not IPD?

Cope you won’t get it anyway because Jewish orthos want you to have some disorder or some shit.

Also impact on zygos isn’t noticeable.

 

[Fahkumram]

Just use standard palate expanders, why drill your skull off with MSE for a wider palate?

 

[spark]

MSE widens your nose and fucks up your IPD, zero potential improvements unless your face is way too narrow.

Facepulling is mewing-tier cope, still ZERO reliable proof of it working in 2021.

You can only find complains about teeth getting fucked, malocclusions appearing out of nowhere and shit aching. Not even the slightest improvement. Utter cope.

The name of the game is LEFORT OR DEATH, get your racks up because you either get surgery or it's over.

If your face and palate aren't narrow why would you even want MSE? Facepulling of course works but don't expect large results. Dr. Ting spoke about 2mm in adult men. Would be interested how much could we go when combined with the bollard plates. I think 5mm is possible with these methods but maybe it's too much of an optimistic estimate.

 

[spark]

Just use standard palate expanders, why drill your skull off with MSE for a wider palate?

Because standard expanders don't work on adults duh.

 

[Deleted member 7776]

Eye separation ratio is IPD / Bizygo width. Ideal is 0.45-0.47. If ur just about in this range then don't get MSE it'll fuck ur ES ratio and make u look like u have close set eyes. Measure ur ES ratio before u go through with mse

Oh okay, my ortho didn't tell me that. How do I measure bizygo width if I have flat cheekbones?

 

[spark]

Translate that for me tbh. So basically if I have average IPD then would MSE give me close-set eyes? Or wide-set fish eyes like those of Brett Maverick?

Also what's ES ratio if not IPD?

Your eye distance will widen by like 1mm lmao.

 

[Deleted member 8583]

Oh okay, my ortho didn't tell me that. How do I measure bizygo width if I have flat cheekbones?

take a straight non lens distorted pic at the larsanova angle so ur face appears more horizontal and its easier to measure horizontally ur bizygo width

 

[Fahkumram]

Because standard expanders don't work on adults duh.

It’s just slower on adultz

 

[Deleted member 8583]

It’s just slower on adultz

SARPE is legit for adults and it wont fuck ur ratios, just gives wider mouth and palate

 

[Deleted member 7776]

take a straight non lens distorted pic at the larsanova angle so ur face appears more horizontal and its easier to measure horizontally ur bizygo width

wtf is the larsanova angle, are you memeing?

 

[Fahkumram]

this is my palate, what do u guys rate?

 

[Deleted member 8583]

wtf is the larsanova angle, are you memeing?

similar to this, the autistic aspie angle he always does in his selfies but its good for measurements

 

[Deleted member 7776]

View attachment 855281
this is my palate, what do u guys rate?

Narrow as fuck you need MSE for sure

 

[Deleted member 7776]

similar to this, the autistic aspie angle he always does in his selfies but its good for measurements

So basically hold my arms out straight to the fullest extent and slightly tilt my head down?

 

[Mastermind]

If your face and palate aren't narrow why would you even want MSE? Facepulling of course works but don't expect large results. Dr. Ting spoke about 2mm in adult men. Would be interested how much could we go when combined with the bollard plates. I think 5mm is possible with these methods but maybe it's too much of an optimistic estimate.

Because people in here are obsessed with ogre tier parameters like 2.0 FWHR and shit like that

You don't need any of that stuff unless you're truly narrow and long faced in appearence

 

[Deleted member 8583]

So basically hold my arms out straight to the fullest extent and slightly tilt my head down?

no put ur phone on a stand or a box and take a pic from 6ft away while having camera at eye level in the larsanova angle for most accurate pic. then export the pic to ur computer through email or something and open pic on paint and crop till the width of pic = width of cheeks and then check the pixel width to see relative Bizygomatic width. write it down. then crop the pic again till the width of pic = IPd. again record the width pixels. then divide IPD by Bizygomatic (u don't need exact Bizygomatic and IPD width just relative widths since ur finding the ratio)

 

[Mastermind]

View attachment 855281
this is my palate, what do u guys rate?

Holy fucking shit
MSE will definitely save your life but if you're recessed LF still awaits you

This over tier tbh

 

[Deleted member 7776]

no put ur phone on a stand or a box and take a pic from 6ft away while having camera at eye level in the larsanova angle for most accurate pic. then export the pic to ur computer through email or something and open pic on paint and crop till the width of pic = width of cheeks and then check the pixel width to see relative Bizygomatic width. write it down. then crop the pic again till the width of pic = IPd. again record the width pixels. then divide IPD by Bizygomatic (u don't need exact Bizygomatic and IPD width just relative widths since ur finding the ratio)

thanks a lot

 

[Deleted member 8583]

thanks a lot

no worries make sure not to go through with mse if ur just on the .45 tier, if ur 0.48 or 0.47 go for it but be careful not to overexpand

 

[Deleted member 7776]

no worries make sure not to go through with mse if ur just on the .45 tier, if ur 0.48 or 0.47 go for it but be careful not to overexpand

What's the worst that could happen?

 

[Deleted member 8583]

What's the worst that could happen?

if ur currently sitting on the 0.45 Es ratio or near there (0.45 to 0.457) then ur in danger of looking like u have close set eyes because when we perceive someone as having close set eyes, their IPD may in fact be normal (64mm for example) but their Es ratio may be low due to wide cheeks so we perceive them as close eyed

 

[to_stop_da_cope]

if ur currently sitting on the 0.45 Es ratio or near there (0.45 to 0.457) then ur in danger of looking like u have close set eyes because when we perceive someone as having close set eyes, their IPD may in fact be normal (64mm for example) but their Es ratio may be low due to wide cheeks so we perceive them as close eyed

so MSE increase fwhr?

 

[Deleted member 8583]

so MSE increase fwhr?

yes no one is disputing that. MSE has been proven to increase Bizygomatic width but IPD not so much.

 

[to_stop_da_cope]

yes no one is disputing that. MSE has been proven to increase Bizygomatic width but IPD not so much.

thats exactly whan i need

mse is something is should get after bimax right? or before

 

[Mastermind]

so MSE increase fwhr?

Yes it does but it is not completely risk free, it may fuck your ES ratio since the orbits refrain from expanding properly

 

[to_stop_da_cope]

Yes it does but it is not completely risk free

what are risks?

 

[Deleted member 8583]

thats exactly whan i need

mse is something is should get after bimax right? or before

u should get it before bimax ive been advised. The results become less certain when you've got metal plates in ur jaws from the bimax

 

[Deleted member 8583]

thats exactly whan i need

mse is something is should get after bimax right? or before

whats ur es ratio also

 

[to_stop_da_cope]

whats ur es ratio also

idk could you measure for me?

 

[Deleted member 8583]

idk could you measure for me?

ya PM me

 

[Mastermind]

what are risks?

Fucked ES ratio (IPD/orbits do not expand in direct correlation to the zygos)
Wider nose (ogremaxxing)
Malocclusions and even your maxilla receding because of the internal compression (not confirmed take with a pinch of salt)

 

[to_stop_da_cope]

Fucked ES ratio (IPD/orbits do not expand in direct correlation to the zygos)
Wider nose (ogremaxxing)
Malocclusions and even your maxilla receding because of the internal compression (not confirmed take with a pinch of salt)

huh can rhino fix wide nose or it would look too fake?

 

[Mastermind]

huh can rhino fix wide nose or it would look too fake?

Yeah nose narrowing surgeries exist
Anything is better than <1.75 FWHR

 

[spark]

Because people in here are obsessed with ogre tier parameters like 2.0 FWHR and shit like that

You don't need any of that stuff unless you're truly narrow and long faced in appearence

Yeah 1.9 FWHR is enough and very few people even have sub1.80, most just calculate it wrong using distorted pics. Even Adam Lanza was like 1.65 or so in non-distorted pics.

 

[Deleted member 10709]

View attachment 855281
this is my palate, what do u guys rate?

Mirin your shark tooth

 

[randomvanish]

exactly.
osteotomies only give you a boost, you can never be a chad by less invasive osteotomies.
To get enough projection, you need custom implants for jaw and for maxilla lefort is only option.
thankfully midface implants do magic for most cases too.