ive realized that free will can in theory exist (only if there is Jesus tho)

[JordanFagget271]

see, ive realized that determinism wouldnt work on a god that already has supreme intellect and every single experience alr 'in him' so he must have an absolute free will, if not then hes not a god, obviously

and then we have ate the fruit of acknowledging good and evil, and thats when we stepped into a realm of creators actually, thats when we got free will


now writing this ive got another idea, we are made in god's image, since when he made us we didnt have free will, that means that we were finished product only when we got free will, so that is what makes us god's image, and creators ourselves, so this is all what was supposed to happen, the moment we were finished we were exiled from heaven, it was plan


so yeah this is only if christ does exist, not an argument that he does exist, just for those who dont believe in free will to see that it can exist in theory

@Jesus_ist_König @VohnnyBoy
@tomahawk could u explain how it would go with allah? im not too knowledgable on that one
@philosophycel

 

[JordanFagget271]

it was 4 times longer but i knew nobody would bother reading even this

 

[Btard]

you should try checking out r/debatereligion

 

[JordanFagget271]

you should try checking out r/debatereligion

ye ig i will
but its very long each time

 

[birthdefect]

see, ive realized that determinism wouldnt work on a god that already has supreme intellect and every single experience alr 'in him' so he must have an absolute free will, if not then hes not a god, obviously

and then we have ate the fruit of acknowledging good and evil, and thats when we stepped into a realm of creators actually, thats when we got free will


now writing this ive got another idea, we are made in god's image, since when he made us we didnt have free will, that means that we were finished product only when we got free will, so that is what makes us god's image, and creators ourselves, so this is all what was supposed to happen, the moment we were finished we were exiled from heaven, it was plan


so yeah this is only if christ does exist, not an argument that he does exist, just for those who dont believe in free will to see that it can exist in theory

@Jesus_ist_König @VohnnyBoy
@tomahawk could u explain how it would go with allah? im not too knowledgable on that one
@philosophycel

if eating the fruit gave us free will, this implies we didnt get to chose whether we would eat it
so god wanted us to sin

 

[JordanFagget271]

if eating the fruit gave us free will, this implies we didnt get to chose whether we would eat it
so god wanted us to sin

yes of course

 

[birthdefect]

yes of course

i thought the reason bad things happen is cus they sinned
so if it isnt their fault doesnt that mean god is just punishing us for no reason?

 

[Freestyleofnoone]

Man was made to be terrestrial, and have dominion over the whole earth and multiply, not stuck in a garden forever. The point was that in walking with God Adam would learn good and evil derivatively, in a stabilised appropriate way in correct time, and then go on to have complete dominion. The knowledge of good and evil is necessary to multiply and have full dominion, but when self claimed it is destabilising without appropriate reference of true source.

 

[tomahawk]

i thought the reason bad things happen is cus they sinned
so if it isnt their fault doesnt that mean god is just punishing us for no reason?

Free will is a very double-sided theory
God is above all, he's The Almighty and the all-Knowing, to him, we don't have free will on that basis, but since he is Almighty he is beyond the rules of logic we apply
Whatever he states as true is true because he makes it into real
So the idea that we can have free will and not have free will depending on the observing side is technically possible
Whatever he deems right, so long his existence is proven

 

[tomahawk]

see, ive realized that determinism wouldnt work on a god that already has supreme intellect and every single experience alr 'in him' so he must have an absolute free will, if not then hes not a god, obviously

and then we have ate the fruit of acknowledging good and evil, and thats when we stepped into a realm of creators actually, thats when we got free will


now writing this ive got another idea, we are made in god's image, since when he made us we didnt have free will, that means that we were finished product only when we got free will, so that is what makes us god's image, and creators ourselves, so this is all what was supposed to happen, the moment we were finished we were exiled from heaven, it was plan


so yeah this is only if christ does exist, not an argument that he does exist, just for those who dont believe in free will to see that it can exist in theory

@Jesus_ist_König @VohnnyBoy
@tomahawk could u explain how it would go with allah? im not too knowledgable on that one
@philosophycel

We always had the free will
Christ being God is irrational though

 

[birthdefect]

Free will is a very double-sided theory
God is above all, he's The Almighty and the all-Knowing, to him, we don't have free will on that basis, but since he is Almighty he is beyond the rules of logic we apply
Whatever he states as true is true because he makes it into real
So the idea that we can have free will and not have free will depending on the observing side is technically possible
Whatever he deems right, so long his existence is proven

i just dont think a religion should be taken seriously when you need to extrapolate and interpolate, use technicalities, and reinterpret things so much
the universe is so large theres no shot that we just had the correct religion, i doubt aliens are christian or muslim or jewish or whatever
if you make an unfalsifiable entity that can now perform logical contradictions is an argument about it even worth having?

 

[tomahawk]

i just dont think a religion should be taken seriously when you need to extrapolate and interpolate, use technicalities, and reinterpret things so much
the universe is so large theres no shot that we just had the correct religion, i doubt aliens are christian or muslim or jewish or whatever
if you make an unfalsifiable entity that can now perform logical contradictions is an argument about it even worth having?

No
I have no idea at this point
Logics is useless in theology because a Deity would be above logic anyway
I just realized I'm lost
Why need the Unmoved Mover or whatever when this

 

[JordanFagget271]

i just dont think a religion should be taken seriously when you need to extrapolate and interpolate, use technicalities, and reinterpret things so much
the universe is so large theres no shot that we just had the correct religion, i doubt aliens are christian or muslim or jewish or whatever
if you make an unfalsifiable entity that can now perform logical contradictions is an argument about it even worth having?

i didnt say that i believe in christianity, just that that logic isnt the right one, determinism doesnt work in christianity thats simply it

No
I have no idea at this point
Logics is useless in theology because a Deity would be above logic anyway
I just realized I'm lost
Why need the Unmoved Mover or whatever when this

ye idk i kinda disagree with logic not being able to play a role, logic is reason, so if we cant reason it, u obviously dont have reason to believe

 

[tomahawk]

i didnt say that i believe in christianity, just that that logic isnt the right one, determinism doesnt work in christianity thats simply it

ye idk i kinda disagree with logic not being able to play a role, logic is reason, so if we cant reason it, u obviously dont have reason to believe

If God is Almighty why not follow him? He doesn't say bad and it makes sense
We just come across a bunch of contradictions if we don't, but certainly the absence of God is illogical

 

[JordanFagget271]

If God is Almighty why not follow him? He doesn't say bad and it makes sense
We just come across a bunch of contradictions if we don't, but certainly the absence of God is illogical

yes, the absence of god is illogical ofc, but choosing religion makes no sense if u cant choose with reason?

 

[birthdefect]

No
I have no idea at this point
Logics is useless in theology because a Deity would be above logic anyway
I just realized I'm lost
Why need the Unmoved Mover or whatever when this

an uncaused causer is unnecessary in my eyes but theres prob an argument for it
is that why god seems to make illogical choices? like making so many people but then a binary or at best tertiary afterlife in abrahamic religions? or why the universe is so big but we're expected to believe that our religion alone is true?

i didnt say that i believe in christianity, just that that logic isnt the right one, determinism doesnt work in christianity thats simply it

why would determinism not work in christianity?
theres a base contradiction in any religion where god is all knowing but we have free will
if our choices are already known did we make them? i dont think so

 

[tomahawk]

an uncaused causer is unnecessary in my eyes but theres prob an argument for it

How can it logically not be necessary?

is that why god seems to make illogical choices? like making so many people but then a binary or at best tertiary afterlife in abrahamic religions?

The binary nature of judgement you describe is a partial misconception

or why the universe is so big but we're expected to believe that our religion alone is true?

Because if there's truth and something else contradicts it it isn't true
By definition there can't be 2 right religions or faiths except when they're the same
Because the truth is absolute and objective

 

[polonaecel]

How can it logically not be necessary?

The binary nature of judgement you describe is a partial misconception

Because if there's truth and something else contradicts it it isn't true
By definition there can't be 2 right religions or faiths except when they're the same
Because the truth is absolute and objective

CORE

 

[birthdefect]

How can it logically not be necessary?

why cant the universe itself be an uncaused cause?

The binary nature of judgement you describe is a partial misconception

why is that?

Because if there's truth and something else contradicts it it isn't true
By definition there can't be 2 right religions or faiths except when they're the same
Because the truth is absolute and objective

i agree there cant be 2 correct different religions, but my answer to it is that we dont have the correct religion

 

[tomahawk]

why cant the universe itself be an uncaused cause?

Good point
Hmmm

why is that?

Google

i agree there cant be 2 correct different religions, but my answer to it is that we dont have the correct religion

There must be something correct a correct system it can't be void of it

 

[Tenres]

If God is the first cause and necessary, then everything he causes would also be necessary, no? Unless God's causal influence on the world is arbitrary. IIRC there's some ways to get out of this but they are stretches imo

 

[birthdefect]

Good point
Hmmm

Google

There must be something correct a correct system it can't be void of it

it can be void of it
perhaps the universe isnt even a concept that can "not exist"
or perhaps the correct system doesnt involve an anthropromorphised creator

 

[tomahawk]

it can be void of it
perhaps the universe isnt even a concept that can "not exist"

Idk

or perhaps the correct system doesnt involve an anthropromorphised creator

Obviously

 

[birthdefect]

Idk

Obviously

if its obvious are you religious?

 

[tomahawk]

if its obvious are you religious?

Definitely
Islam doesn't anthropomorphize God

 

[birthdefect]

Definitely
Islam doesn't anthropomorphize God

id say it does anthropromorphise
bro has a throne
he speaks
he uses hands
im not saying he literally does those things but anthropromorphism is inevitable in a man made religion

and also why doesnt god just show himself
and please elaborate on the binary afterlife misconception, i dont even know what to google

 

[tomahawk]

id say it does anthropromorphise
bro has a throne
he speaks

How can he not?

he uses hands

It's stated so many times his hands are not the hands we perceive and that he is nothing like the creation
42:11

im not saying he literally does those things but anthropromorphism is inevitable in a man made religion

It's not manmade

and also why doesnt god just show himself

The purpose of this life is to test
If he shows the purpose of testing faith is over

and please elaborate on the binary afterlife misconception, i dont even know what to google

Google Islamic heaven and hell