Jesus Christ is the truth, anyone who thinks otherwise, engage in respectful debate. Theism is logical and definitely the way.

[Deleted member 20890]

Not at all, we can debate on the existence of a God, if that's what you'd like? I was atheist for a little while until I concluded Eastern Orthodoxy.

False religion with a false gospel.

 

[AbyssalMax]

hmm, ok so you have proven necessary being with teleological argument,
why did this necessary being create us?

also another point many worlds interpretation is now consensus among scientists to explain double slit experiments.
which means that probability is still possible as there are many worlds.

there is no where in quran where age of aisha is mentioned its written centuries after Prophet's birth
also i am not muslim.

I believe the necessary being created us because it loves us. There's been a book that's been here for 2000 years, telling me there is a necessary being before I existed and came to reason, I ought to believe it.

As for the age of Aisha, as a Muslim you cannot reject Hadiths. That's just heretical.

 

[AbyssalMax]

False religion with a false gospel.

What's the argument here exactly? I'm not too sure so I'll just link some arguements from earlier.

I see, you don't have to categorise yourself so fast, even now for me, I wouldn't say I'll never not believe in God. I can explain the logical proof as to why God must exist, if you're willing to read:
All outcomes are subject to chance. Therefore, a framework for probability must exist, for us, it's our universe. As for us being born, it was a chance our parents met and made us. Then we keep going back till our ancestors, then some microorganisms, then the Earth, now we are at the beginning of the universe. So, we follow a list of chance based outcomes that are all dependent on each other, to the beginning of the universe.

Now that begs the question, how did the universe come about? The universe could have totally different physical constants and still work perfectly fine mathematically. Why was our universe fine tuned like this? Especially in a way that allows consciousness. It also has a beginning, so what began it? That means there is a possible reality, where it could either be different or not have begun. The odds seem to be low, but it has happened, so that's that. But on what framework of probability was the universe chanced on? There is nothing before the universe, so there is no probability.

Therefore, there must be a necessary being, one that can never be another way, never not exist, never be subject to chance, and not dependent on another object or being. Otherwise, if the necessary being was chanced, that would beg the question on what framework of probability was it chanced on? An infinite regress of dependency and being chanced is possible, but that doesn't help, as that doesn't explain how the infinite regress comes about. This necessary being resulted in a universe with consciousness. This is God.
TL;DR
Contingent means subject to chance
All things are contingent, they exist but could have not existed. Anything that is contingent depends on something else for its existence. The totality of contingent beings cannot explain itself. Therefore, there must exist a being that is necessary so its existence does not depend on anything else. This necessary being provides the ultimate explanation for why anything exists rather than nothing.

As for Jesus being God, 2025 years ago, a very strange man was born and something even stranger happened during His life, causing countless to worship under persecution. All the people close to Him claimed one thing, that He said He was God and did all sorts of things. They were martyred for this belief and frankly I believe them. For a religion to spread so rapidly to the point where it takes over Rome, despite persecution, on no basis, is hard to believe. There is no religon that spread this uniquely other than Islam. But the Muslims weren't persecuted. Then we were given a book, this book is the word of this man. So I follow this book.

I totally understand you, honestly even I find it hard to believe at times. But I just have faith in God, you can't join Judaism as you have to be born into it. As for Islam vs Christianity, this has been ongoing since the times of our ancestors.

I believe in Chrsitianity as I believe Islam wields carnal desires to control carnal men. Muhammad and the poor child and further laws were made for all his deeds. Concubines being allowed from war without marriage, 72 virgins in heaven, polygamy and him marrying his son's wife, women being half a man etc etc. This is all sin. It's, quite frankly, evil. This is my view on things, my best friend is Muslim, he is extremely intelligent, far more than me. But he's still Muslim.

I still wish you the best of luck, and that you find your divine purpose.

Unstable had some rebuttals which I commented on, maybe that might answer your questions too.

 

[unstable]

I believe the necessary being created us because it loves us. There's been a book that's been here for 2000 years, telling me there is a necessary being before I existed and came to reason, I ought to believe it.

As for the age of Aisha, as a Muslim you cannot reject Hadiths. That's just heretical.

it still doesn't answer the question, how does he love us when we don't exist why does he need an external source for love.

muslims can still arrange hadiths and hadiths can go from strong hadiths to weak hadiths.

 

[Deleted member 20890]

What's the argument here exactly? I'm not too sure so I'll just link some arguements from earlier.

Works salvation.

 

[AbyssalMax]

it still doesn't answer the question, how does he love us when we don't exist why does he need an external source for love.

muslims can still arrange hadiths and hadiths can go from strong hadiths to weak hadiths.

Your question now can be found in the Bible. God had a clear intended plan and design for us, that's why straying from it via our free will is sin. Before creation, this design was put into reality. God does not need our love at all, but He loves us. This is evident in us existing at all.
The hadiths are from the sahih al bukhari and sahih muslim, pretty much as authentic as it gets.

 

[Emolifta]

Ni

 

[Emolifta]

No

 

[SheafCohomology]

Amen. Hallelujah

 

[unstable]

Your question now can be found in the Bible. God had a clear intended plan and design for us, that's why straying from it via our free will is sin. Before creation, this design was put into reality. God does not need our love at all, but He loves us. This is evident in us existing at all.
The hadiths are from the sahih al bukhari and sahih muslim, pretty much as authentic as it gets.

why does he have a plan, why do we need to exist at all?

authenticity is decided by muslims who decide which hadith are good and which are bad.
also these are sunni hadiths shia and imadi have different set of hadiths

 

[shaneywaney69]

could be debating on anywhere but chose this website out of anything

 

[AbyssalMax]

Works salvation.

Ah, this is gonna be a woozy. Faith without works is dead, and works without faith is dead. Both are interconnected, no point in isolating one.

 

[AbyssalMax]

why does he have a plan, why do we need to exist at all?

authenticity is decided by muslims who decide which hadith are good and which are bad.
also these are sunni hadiths shia and imadi have different set of hadiths

Simply because it's God's will as we proofed earlier, nothing more. We are told His plan will come to light on judgement day.

Yes I am aware, I have a shia friend. But Shias are considered heretics. Also I'm not Muslim, so I can't really comment on Sunni vs Shia

 

[AbyssalMax]

could be debating on anywhere but chose this website out of anything

Yep, afterlifemaxing. People here need God most

 

[shaneywaney69]

Yep, afterlifemaxing. People here need God most

debate on pornhub next

 

[AbyssalMax]

No

Use ur 130 iq and find some logic gaps.

I see, you don't have to categorise yourself so fast, even now for me, I wouldn't say I'll never not believe in God. I can explain the logical proof as to why God must exist, if you're willing to read:
All outcomes are subject to chance. Therefore, a framework for probability must exist, for us, it's our universe. As for us being born, it was a chance our parents met and made us. Then we keep going back till our ancestors, then some microorganisms, then the Earth, now we are at the beginning of the universe. So, we follow a list of chance based outcomes that are all dependent on each other, to the beginning of the universe.

Now that begs the question, how did the universe come about? The universe could have totally different physical constants and still work perfectly fine mathematically. Why was our universe fine tuned like this? Especially in a way that allows consciousness. It also has a beginning, so what began it? That means there is a possible reality, where it could either be different or not have begun. The odds seem to be low, but it has happened, so that's that. But on what framework of probability was the universe chanced on? There is nothing before the universe, so there is no probability.

Therefore, there must be a necessary being, one that can never be another way, never not exist, never be subject to chance, and not dependent on another object or being. Otherwise, if the necessary being was chanced, that would beg the question on what framework of probability was it chanced on? An infinite regress of dependency and being chanced is possible, but that doesn't help, as that doesn't explain how the infinite regress comes about. This necessary being resulted in a universe with consciousness. This is God.
TL;DR
Contingent means subject to chance
All things are contingent, they exist but could have not existed. Anything that is contingent depends on something else for its existence. The totality of contingent beings cannot explain itself. Therefore, there must exist a being that is necessary so its existence does not depend on anything else. This necessary being provides the ultimate explanation for why anything exists rather than nothing.

 

[unstable]

Simply because it's God's will as we proofed earlier, nothing more. We are told His plan will come to light on judgement day.

Yes I am aware, I have a shia friend. But Shias are considered heretics. Also I'm not Muslim, so I can't really comment on Sunni vs Shia

ok even if we believe god's plan but he has no reason to create life so full of suffering.

 

[Emolifta]

Use ur 130 iq and find some logic gaps.

easily disproven I’m not wasting my time debating cucktians

 

[AbyssalMax]

easily disproven I’m not wasting my time debating cucktians

Because you can't disprove it. It's 100 percent logically sound. There is no disproof, it follows logic, lol.

 

[Emolifta]

Because you can't disprove it. It's 100 percent logically sound. There is no disproof, it follows logic, lol.

Illogical, it’s not perfectly sound. Do you understand logic as a concept?

 

[AbyssalMax]

Illogical, it’s not perfectly sound. Do you understand logic as a concept?

Sure, I don't see the logic gap. Care to show me? Since you've found it

 

[AbyssalMax]

ok even if we believe god's plan but he has no reason to create life so full of suffering.

Honestly, I just have faith in God's plan. Suffering is a natural consequence of sin as it resulted in separation from God. Anywhere without God will have suffering.

 

[unstable]

Illogical, it’s not perfectly sound. Do you understand logic as a concept?

are you pakistani muslim?

Honestly, I just have faith in God's plan. Suffering is a natural consequence of sin as it resulted in separation from God. Anywhere without God will have suffering.

there is no reason for god to create us, i am not Christian so i don't know about separation from god stuff.

you should worship the real gods of your ancestors and not these man made religions.

 

[Emolifta]

are you pakistani muslim?

No

there is no reason for god to create us, i am not Christian so i don't know about separation from god stuff.

you should worship the real gods of your ancestors and not these man made religions.

 

[Deleted member 20890]

Ah, this is gonna be a woozy. Faith without works is dead, and works without faith is dead. Both are interconnected, no point in isolating one.

Faith without works is still faith, just like a dead car is still a car.

 

[unstable]

No

aren't you uzbek?

 

[Emolifta]

aren't you uzbek?

Tf does Uzbeki have to do with Pakistan

 

[unstable]

Tf does Uzbeki have to do with Pakistan

but you are muslim right?

 

[Emolifta]

but you are muslim right?

Yeah what about it

 

[boxillo]

and I want the world to ideally be Christian.

you’re a weirdo ngl, also most retarded take I’ve ever heard.

 

[unstable]

Yeah what about it

Sahih al-Bukhari 2928 - Fighting for the Cause of Allah (Jihaad) - كتاب الجهاد والسير - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) in English and Arabic

sunnah.com

what do you think about this verse on turks since uzbeks are turks too.
i not islamophobic or anything.

 

[Emolifta]

Sahih al-Bukhari 2928 - Fighting for the Cause of Allah (Jihaad) - كتاب الجهاد والسير - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) in English and Arabic

sunnah.com

what do you think about this verse on turks since uzbeks are turks too.
i not islamophobic or anything.

The hadith is not insulting the race and does not condemn the Turkish people. It simply describes the physical appearance of a future group that they would clash with, using the language and reference points of the 7th century.