just get fade and tats if you're..

[Deleted member 2486]

just an example. he would look too androgynous/faggot with that frame and vibe but tattoos give balance

just look at the 1st picture and imagine him without his tatts and then look at it again

but then again, i dont have tatts myself so im not even biased, im just saying they are a tool to increase your sex appeal if you get the right ones

 

[Kade]

you are talking to a brick wall

he literally said he is not interested in getting with girls without paying for it, he said he is just doing all these surgeries to look good for himself

Yeah I think you’re right..

He seems to just talk in circles and only really listens to and engrains the things that aid his confirmation bias

I wanted to help but If he wants to go under the knife to get 1 mm of midface implant revision instead of doing the things that’ll actually help his looks then that’s on him

 

[SurgerySoon]

you are talking to a brick wall

he literally said he is not interested in getting with girls without paying for it, he said he is just doing all these surgeries to look good for himself

No, I didn't say I "wasn't interested in getting girls without paying for it" -- what I said was that even with all the surgery in the world, my base is too weak and underdeveloped (as key21 pointed out) to ever allow me to become a legit slayer, so I realize that no matter what, I'll probably end up having to pay money to have sex with legitimately hot girls (I.e., escorts).

can you post a side profile picture?

wont u have to remove ur jaw implants then?

Here are a couple side profile photos I took back in September when my hair was shorter (slightly different head poses in each one) -- keep in mind that this is after custom midface + chin implant surgery + submental lipectomy, which was all done back in March 2019:



@Gosick As you can see, my maxilla isn't severely recessed, but it could benefit from more forward growth.

@KEy21 @forwardgrown What do you think? Is my maxilla recessed enough to warrant double jaw surgery, or could I possibly get enough additional forward growth from something less invasive like an MSE?

I kind of feel like my maxilla is in that "borderline" zone, so to speak, where although it would obviously benefit me to have more forward growth, my maxilla isn't so severely recessed that I would absolute benefit to an overtly noticeable degree. Do you see what I mean here @KEy21? Even though I know it won't give the same results as double jaw surgery, I wonder if my recession might be mild enough to the extent that paranasal and premaxillary implants along with lip fillers might be enough to camouflage the issue at least somewhat.

Then again, maybe it really IS that bad and I do desperately need double jaw surgery to become much better-looking.

(Keep in mind I had braces from age 16-19, so I'm not sure how much that messed up my facial development)

Yeah I think you’re right..

He seems to just talk in circles and only really listens to and engrains the things that aid his confirmation bias

I wanted to help but If he wants to go under the knife to get 1 mm of midface implant revision instead of doing the things that’ll actually help his looks then that’s on him

No, I want to do everything I can do to improve my looks, not just fix obvious failos. I don't just want to have all-around average features with no failos; I want to do everything I can to make as many of my features as possible look above-average.

 

[Kade]

No, I didn't say I "wasn't interested in getting girls without paying for it" -- what I said was that even with all the surgery in the world, my base is too weak and underdeveloped (as key21 pointed out) to ever allow me to become a legit slayer, so I realize that no matter what, I'll probably end up having to pay money to have sex with legitimately hot girls (I.e., escorts).


Here are a couple side profile photos I took back in September when my hair was shorter (slightly different head poses in each one) -- keep in mind that this is after custom midface + chin implant surgery, which was done back in March 2019:



@Gosick As you can see, my maxilla isn't severely recessed, but it could benefit from more forward growth.

@KEy21 @forwardgrown What do you think? Is my maxilla recessed enough to warrant double jaw surgery, or could I possibly get enough additional forward growth from something less invasive like an MSE?

I kind of feel like my maxilla is in that "borderline" zone, so to speak, where although it would obviously benefit me to have more forward growth, my maxilla isn't so severely recessed that I would absolute benefit to an overtly noticeable degree. Do you see what I mean here @KEy21? Even though I know it won't give the same results as double jaw surgery, I wonder if my recession might be mild enough to the extent that paranasal and premaxillary implants along with lip fillers might be enough to camouflage the issue at least somewhat.

Then again, maybe it really IS that bad and I do desperately need double jaw surgery to become much better-looking.

(Keep in mind I had braces from age 16-19, so I'm not sure how much that messed up my facial development)



No, I want to do everything I can do to improve my looks, not just fix obvious failos. I don't just want to have all-around average features with no failos; I want to do everything I can to make as many of my features as possible look above-average.

You literally have above average features aside from eye area tho

 

[SurgerySoon]

You literally have above average features aside from eye area tho

Thanks but in my area I am either dead average (at best) or below average tbh. Also I don't think I will ever unlock my full looks potential unless I get a few more mm (at least) of forward maxillary projection, whether that's from double jaw surgery, MSE or some other type of device, or a camouflage procedure such as paranasal implants + premaxillary implants + lip fillers.

 

[Kade]

Thanks but in my area I am either dead average (at best) or below average tbh. Also I don't think I will ever unlock my full looks potential unless I get a few more mm (at least) of forward maxillary projection, whether that's from double jaw surgery, MSE or some other type of device, or a camouflage procedure such as paranasal implants + premaxillary implants + lip fillers.

so why not move?

 

[SurgerySoon]

so why not move?

That would just be coping, instead of facing the reality that there truly ARE optimally-developed chads out there in vast numbers that represent the level of attractiveness that girls refuse to settle for any less than.

Edited to add: And why not implement every possible looksmaxxing intervention and see just how much I can improve my looks as long as I have the ability to pay for it? I feel like I'll regret it in 10 years if I don't at least try

 

[KEy21]

Your eye area is shit. There’s no other way to put it. Even if you had severe maxillary recession - With the way you look right now: You would benefit much more from eye area surgeries

This is why I recommend them done first. They’ll have the largest positive impact to your looks. So this means that if they don’t have a great impact then nothing will.

 

[Deleted member 2486]

That would just be coping, instead of facing the reality that there truly ARE optimally-developed chads out there in vast numbers that represent the level of attractiveness that girls refuse to settle for any less than.

imagine typing this down. imagine being so fucking low T. you are a literal cuck to these people

 

[ritalinredemption]

That would just be coping, instead of facing the reality that there truly ARE optimally-developed chads out there in vast numbers that represent the level of attractiveness that girls refuse to settle for any less than.

Edited to add: And why not implement every possible looksmaxxing intervention and see just how much I can improve my looks as long as I have the ability to pay for it? I feel like I'll regret it in 10 years if I don't at least try

true - but @cocainecowboy has a point. youre shooting yourself in the foot. yes, you should do what you can, but theres a limit to your attractiveness ceiling, and if this upper limit is still no where near the chads you mention then youll never live up to the standards of the local girls therefore you have a better chance at being successful AND HAPPY if you move elsewhere

 

[SurgerySoon]

Your eye area is shit. There’s no other way to put it. Even if you had severe maxillary recession - With the way you look right now: You would benefit much more from eye area surgeries

This is why I recommend them done first. They’ll have the largest positive impact to your looks. So this means that if they don’t have a great impact then nothing will.

I get what you are saying and I agree that my eye area is shit. If I decide to get any additional surgeries, I will obviously go for eye area surgery first, especially since I already had my consultation with Taban last year and am essentially ready to go with it. But just for the record, based on the photos I posted, how bad would you say my maxilla is recessed? Does it look slightly recessed, severely recessed, just average... ?

 

[Deleted member 2486]

I get what you are saying and I agree that my eye area is shit. If I decide to get any additional surgeries, I will obviously go for eye area surgery first, especially since I already had my consultation with Taban last year and am essentially ready to go with it. But just for the record, based on the photos I posted, how bad would you say my maxilla is recessed? Does it look slightly recessed, severely recessed, just average... ?

IT. LOOKS. OK. TO. THE. POINT. ADDITIONAL. IMPLANT. WONT. CHANGE. HOW. YOU. ARE. TREATED

DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

 

[SurgerySoon]

imagine typing this down. imagine being so fucking low T. you are a literal cuck to these people

I'm not a cuck to these people because there are so many Chads here that even they are competing with each other for average girls. So in a way, many of the Chads themselves are forced to be cucks just to have SOME luck with girls. So by me staying out of the game entirely because I have a totally realistic perception of where I stand as a male in terms of looks, I'm actually avoiding getting cucked entirely.

true - but @cocainecowboy has a point. youre shooting yourself in the foot. yes, you should do what you can, but theres a limit to your attractiveness ceiling, and if this upper limit is still no where near the chads you mention then youll never live up to the standards of the local girls therefore you have a better chance at being successful AND HAPPY if you move elsewhere

Moving isn't really one of those things that is feasible for me to do at this point given my situation in life with me finishing graduate school next year. Also, that's why I said in previous posts that at this point (and especially considering my age), I realize that any future invasive looksmaxxing interventions need to be done for the purpose of satisfying my own perception of my looks, even if I will never be even half as attractive as the local gigachads. That's also why I have relegated myself to accepting the likely reality that I will probably have to end up seeing escorts if I want to be with attractive women.

IT. LOOKS. OK. TO. THE. POINT. ADDITIONAL. IMPLANT. WONT. CHANGE. HOW. YOU. ARE. TREATED

DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

I have said this before but I guess I'll have to say it again: I'm not just getting surgeries to be treated better by girls. I realize that my looksmaxxing ceiling is so low that I will never be the kind of guy who gets girls interested in him based on looks, and that's why I have said several times that I realize I will most likely just end up seeing escorts. However, that's also why i said that I want to do everything I can to improve my own looks because I want to become the best-looking version of myself for ME. So when you said that my maxilla isn't recessed enough for surgery to make a difference in terms of how girls treat me, it's kind of irrelevant since I'm doing all of this for myself at this point (to do it for any other reason would be setting myself up for disappointment).

 

[SikKunt]

DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

 

[6ft8InTheNetherlands]

I'm not a cuck to these people because there are so many Chads here that even they are competing with each other for average girls. So in a way, many of the Chads themselves are forced to be cucks just to have SOME luck with girls. So by me staying out of the game entirely because I have a totally realistic perception of where I stand as a male in terms of looks, I'm actually avoiding getting cucked entirely.


Moving isn't really one of those things that is feasible for me to do at this point given my situation in life with me finishing graduate school next year. Also, that's why I said in previous posts that at this point (and especially considering my age), I realize that any future invasive looksmaxxing interventions need to be done for the purpose of satisfying my own perception of my looks, even if I will never be even half as attractive as the local gigachads. That's also why I have relegated myself to accepting the likely reality that I will probably have to end up seeing escorts if I want to be with attractive women.


I have said this before but I guess I'll have to say it again: I'm not just getting surgeries to be treated better by girls. I realize that my looksmaxxing ceiling is so low that I will never be the kind of guy who gets girls interested in him based on looks, and that's why I have said several times that I realize I will most likely just end up seeing escorts. However, that's also why i said that I want to do everything I can to improve my own looks because I want to become the best-looking version of myself for ME. So when you said that my maxilla isn't recessed enough for surgery to make a difference in terms of how girls treat me, it's kind of irrelevant since I'm doing all of this for myself at this point (to do it for any other reason would be setting myself up for disappointment).

Just curious and no offense but have you ever seen a therapist?

 

[SurgerySoon]

Just curious and no offense but have you ever seen a therapist?

No, I don't need to sit down and waste money paying someone to tell me what I already know about how the world works, and why/how I should just accept where I stand

 

[Deusmaximus]

You really just need roids, fade cut, and maybe some good clothes, then go out and learn how to speak to girls.
You really need to do this pua type of stuff, where you approach girls on the street and clubs every damn day, till you get low inhib as fuck!!
And im saying this as the biggest blackpill and surgery fanatic ever.

 

[dough]

your mentally ill man

you give off weirdo vibes

i don't think you can slay. youre too far off

even if you get surgery you will still act like a aspie

going to be extremely hard to learn how to talk to females and change your personality at 32

 

[SayNoToRotting]

Ignore me, I'm just another useless addition to a thread filled with mile-long posts that no one will ever read.

 

[Deleted member 2486]

Ignore me, I'm just another useless addition to a thread filled with mile-long posts that no one will ever read.

thx for the bump bro

 

[SurgerySoon]

@KEy21 did you get a chance to check out the side profile photos I posted? In general, how recessed would you say my maxilla is?

your mentally ill man

you give off weirdo vibes

i don't think you can slay. youre too far off

even if you get surgery you will still act like a aspie

going to be extremely hard to learn how to talk to females and change your personality at 32

I know I can't slay based off looks alone. Even if personality was better, starting point in terms of looks is simply too far off

You really just need roids, fade cut, and maybe some good clothes, then go out and learn how to speak to girls.
You really need to do this pua type of stuff, where you approach girls on the street and clubs every damn day, till you get low inhib as fuck!!
And im saying this as the biggest blackpill and surgery fanatic ever.

Not interested in doing all that. It will take too much effort to try and make up for my looks starting point and looksmaxxing ceiling using personality.

Edited to add: trying to improve personality to make up for looks is actually the biggest cope. WTF

 

[KEy21]

@KEy21 did you get a chance to check out the side profile photos I posted? In general, how recessed would you say my maxilla is?


I know I can't slay based off looks alone. Even if personality was better, starting point in terms of looks is simply too far off


Not interested in doing all that. It will take too much effort to try and make up for my looks starting point and looksmaxxing ceiling using personality.

Edited to add: trying to improve personality to make up for looks is actually the biggest cope. WTF

@KEy21 did you get a chance to check out the side profile photos I posted? In general, how recessed would you say my maxilla is?


I know I can't slay based off looks alone. Even if personality was better, starting point in terms of looks is simply too far off


Not interested in doing all that. It will take too much effort to try and make up for my looks starting point and looksmaxxing ceiling using personality.

Edited to add: trying to improve personality to make up for looks is actually the biggest cope. WTF

I won't give you anymore thoughts or advice for free. It really ends up making me spend a ton of time answering your questions in intricate detail and giving my real world experienced thoughts on the matter - Whether it's surgical and aesthetic experience and thoughts, or social dynamics and how I can accurately predict that they'd play out.

It is simply too much work, because you do have a lot of questions. And you seem to have no accountability or ability to stick to a plan until it's reinforced constantly by many others and it shouldn't be that way. You are old and you need to make decisions. A shit decision now is better than no decision and delay. Who cares if you cannot revise the cheek implant after almond eye? The neuroticism needs to end. Just go get it and you will look better.

You need to try slaying NOW. You cannot wait until you feel good and confident. You will never feel this way as you've never felt this way in your whole entire adulthood. There is never a right moment. You just act and you learn. This is the same thing that many entrepreneurs say. They never got a sense of comfort when starting - They just knew it was getting late and acted, then adjusted to the waves of the ocean as they surfed along their journey through life.

Once you start approaching and trying to get women after you've passed the 5-6PSL threshold, it will be ugly due to a self inherited lack of social skills and a high set level of neuroticism. This is the stage many men stop at because they're too embarrassed from rejections and don't like the reactions they're getting because they can't read women. There is a social dynamic to picking up women that incels and other guys who don't get any pussy have absolutely no idea about. They aren't the most important factor, but they help you close at a more efficient rate when you've already passed a looks threshold to speak to or be given a chance with in the first place. Closing is important and you need to have a gameplay in advance.

Once you develop a few lines that work, you start to use them together. Once you figure out what about your personality and interests are shared among the people you will be able to sift through social interaction better. It's a trial and error game to become more socially relatable and you have a lot of work to do on that front. No amount of jaw surgery can help that.

 

[SurgerySoon]

I won't give you anymore thoughts or advice for free. It really ends up making me spend a ton of time answering your questions in intricate detail and giving my real world experienced thoughts on the matter - Whether it's surgical and aesthetic experience and thoughts, or social dynamics and how I can accurately predict that they'd play out.

It is simply too much work, because you do have a lot of questions. And you seem to have no accountability or ability to stick to a plan until it's reinforced constantly by many others and it shouldn't be that way. You are old and you need to make decisions. A shit decision now is better than no decision and delay. Who cares if you cannot revise the cheek implant after almond eye? The neuroticism needs to end. Just go get it and you will look better.

You need to try slaying NOW. You cannot wait until you feel good and confident. You will never feel this way as you've never felt this way in your whole entire adulthood. There is never a right moment. You just act and you learn. This is the same thing that many entrepreneurs say. They never got a sense of comfort when starting - They just knew it was getting late and acted, then adjusted to the waves of the ocean as they surfed along their journey through life.

Once you start approaching and trying to get women after you've passed the 5-6PSL threshold, it will be ugly due to a self inherited lack of social skills and a high set level of neuroticism. This is the stage many men stop at because they're too embarrassed from rejections and don't like the reactions they're getting because they can't read women. There is a social dynamic to picking up women that incels and other guys who don't get any pussy have absolutely no idea about. They aren't the most important factor, but they help you close at a more efficient rate when you've already passed a looks threshold to speak to or be given a chance with in the first place. Closing is important and you need to have a gameplay in advance.

Once you develop a few lines that work, you start to use them together. Once you figure out what about your personality and interests are shared among the people you will be able to sift through social interaction better. It's a trial and error game to become more socially relatable and you have a lot of work to do on that front. No amount of jaw surgery can help that.

I will just assume my maxilla is moderately recessed and would benefit from double jaw surgery (if I choose to get anymore surgery at all). So where do I begin with learning the whole "game" thing? I don't have time these days to read through legit novels of PUA shit, but are there any relatively brief ebooks that at least cover the basics and most important things to know? I have a feeling it will all be for nothing, though, since the most likely future I can envision either involves me simply seeing higher-tier escorts from time to time or roping at some point within the next year or so.

 

[forwardgrowth]

I will just assume my maxilla is moderately recessed and would benefit from double jaw surgery (if I choose to get anymore surgery at all). So where do I begin with learning the whole "game" thing? I don't have time these days to read through legit novels of PUA shit, but are there any relatively brief ebooks that at least cover the basics and most important things to know? I have a feeling it will all be for nothing, though, since the most likely future I can envision either involves me simply seeing higher-tier escorts from time to time or roping at some point within the next year or so.

don't rope, simple formula here: mse 12m + facemask, double jaw maximum cc rotation 10mm, taban eye areas surgeries, roids low dose t, skull reshaping HA paste, lifts your done

timeline 3-4yrs to get all those done

then go hard with game to fix your social

your maxilla isn't crazily recessed but both your jaw are downwards rotated, so would benefit from bring your upper and lower forward and rotating them upward

 

[OOGABOOGA]

don't rope, simple formula here: mse 12m + facemask, double jaw maximum cc rotation 10mm, taban eye areas surgeries, roids low dose t, skull reshaping HA paste, lifts your done

timeline 3-4yrs to get all those done

then go hard with game to fix your social

your maxilla isn't crazily recessed but both your jaw are downwards rotated, so would benefit from bring your upper and lower forward and rotating them upward

Don’t forget about about leg and clavicle lengthening

 

[Kade]

That would just be coping, instead of facing the reality that there truly ARE optimally-developed chads out there in vast numbers that represent the level of attractiveness that girls refuse to settle for any less than.

Edited to add: And why not implement every possible looksmaxxing intervention and see just how much I can improve my looks as long as I have the ability to pay for it? I feel like I'll regret it in 10 years if I don't at least try

Sounds like defeatist x+1 cope to keep you from ever actually going out and talking to girls. It’s all about assessing risk to reward. Getting your midface implant revised is just ridiculous, you’re lucky that it looks as good as it does

The ONLY things that will ACTUALLY improve the way you look would be eye work with taban and building some more muscle mass

Stop going on about having a bad base, idk if you’re fishing with that or what. But aside from the eyes, you actually have a good base.

I understand that you feel you need to be fully satisfied and you want to fully looksmax, but you need to realize how insignificant the implant revision is, I honestly consider it irrational to fixate on it like this. As key said, who cares if it can’t be changes after eye surgery? Finality is tough to deal with BUT THE RESULTS LOOK GOOD, MOVE ON

Sorry if I’m being harsh, but I legit want the best for u and everyone on this site

 

[dough]

@KEy21 did you get a chance to check out the side profile photos I posted? In general, how recessed would you say my maxilla is?


I know I can't slay based off looks alone. Even if personality was better, starting point in terms of looks is simply too far off


Not interested in doing all that. It will take too much effort to try and make up for my looks starting point and looksmaxxing ceiling using personality.

Edited to add: trying to improve personality to make up for looks is actually the biggest cope. WTF

@KEy21 did you get a chance to check out the side profile photos I posted? In general, how recessed would you say my maxilla is?


I know I can't slay based off looks alone. Even if personality was better, starting point in terms of looks is simply too far off


Not interested in doing all that. It will take too much effort to try and make up for my looks starting point and looksmaxxing ceiling using personality.

Edited to add: trying to improve personality to make up for looks is actually the biggest cope. WTF

i didn't meant far off as in looks. meant far off in mind

totally aspie

you're one of the biggest narcy's i have ever seen

you want to live the chad lifestyle and said you will kill yourself if you can.t.

its not even about girls or sex, its about feeding your narcy ego

 

[SurgerySoon]

don't rope, simple formula here: mse 12m + facemask, double jaw maximum cc rotation 10mm, taban eye areas surgeries, roids low dose t, skull reshaping HA paste, lifts your done

timeline 3-4yrs to get all those done

then go hard with game to fix your social

your maxilla isn't crazily recessed but both your jaw are downwards rotated, so would benefit from bring your upper and lower forward and rotating them upward

Thanks for laying it out like that, this is some great info. Couple questions -- do you know if my chin and midface implants can be left in place to have double jaw surgery? Even though I don't think the midface implants project enough, they still have a superior shape as compared to my native cheekbones, which are lower-set and more feminine-looking. So I'd like to leave the implants in place if possible (unless I get them revised, which would make more sense to do after double jaw surgery).

Also, I was doing some reading on the concept of forward-grown vs. downward-grown jaws. If my understanding is correct, the primary trait that indicates that my mandible is downwards rotated is the fact that my jaw angles are positioned much higher than my chin, which makes my jawline itself look steep, right?

However, what is the trait that indicates that my upper jaw/maxilla is downwards-rotated as well?

What I'm wondering is if the combination of wraparound jaw implant + paranasal implants + premaxillary implant could mimic maybe ~70% of the results of double jaw surgery. I know it wouldn't make the upper lip more upturned, but I could get lip fillers and/or a lip lift to mimic the effects of that.

I know that getting more implants is cope, but if I can get even just 70% of the aesthetic improvements that I'd get from double jaw surgery, then I would honestly be satisfied with that, especially since I think it's risky to take 3-4 years to go through the whole process of getting MSE, double jaw surgery, etc. By that time, I would be almost 36 y/o. It seems like most males either start aging severely around age 35 or they continue to age gradually, but since I won't know which category I'm in until I actually reach that age, I don't think it's going to be a good idea to risk waiting until I'm actually that old to be done with everything.

Sounds like defeatist x+1 cope to keep you from ever actually going out and talking to girls. It’s all about assessing risk to reward. Getting your midface implant revised is just ridiculous, you’re lucky that it looks as good as it does

The ONLY things that will ACTUALLY improve the way you look would be eye work with taban and building some more muscle mass

Stop going on about having a bad base, idk if you’re fishing with that or what. But aside from the eyes, you actually have a good base.

I understand that you feel you need to be fully satisfied and you want to fully looksmax, but you need to realize how insignificant the implant revision is, I honestly consider it irrational to fixate on it like this. As key said, who cares if it can’t be changes after eye surgery? Finality is tough to deal with BUT THE RESULTS LOOK GOOD, MOVE ON

Sorry if I’m being harsh, but I legit want the best for u and everyone on this site

How is it defeatist to point out that there are thousands of chads who have collectively significantly raised the standards on what girls consider to be GL? If I go out to one of the few bars or nightclubs in my city and multiple groups of elite military chads are there hitting on girls, can you imagine how humiliating it would be for me to even attempt to approach a girl?

Regarding the midface implant revision, my motivation for doing that is simply to get a result that I'm satisfied with (more along the lines of the result I had envisioned prior to getting the surgery), not to be more attractive to girls. That's something I'm doing 100% for me.

And no, I honestly don't have a good base. My jaw angles are very high relative to my chin, which makes the jawline itself very steep. This is an indication of downward growth, which is subconsciously interpreted by girls as an indicator of sub-optimal development and is there perceived to be an unattractive trait. My skull also pokes out too much in the back (alien skull pheno, although it's not as bad as it is with other guys), and my maxilla is at least mildly recessed/flat. This isn't even considering the eye area issues.

i didn't meant far off as in looks. meant far off in mind

totally aspie

you're one of the biggest narcy's i have ever seen

you want to live the chad lifestyle and said you will kill yourself if you can.t.

its not even about girls or sex, its about feeding your narcy ego

Sorry but how can someone who is as objectively critical of their looks as I am be narcy?

 

[OOGABOOGA]

Thanks for laying it out like that, this is some great info. Couple questions -- do you know if my chin and midface implants can be left in place to have double jaw surgery? Even though I don't think the midface implants project enough, they still have a superior shape as compared to my native cheekbones, which are lower-set and more feminine-looking. So I'd like to leave the implants in place if possible (unless I get them revised, which would make more sense to do after double jaw surgery).

Also, I was doing some reading on the concept of forward-grown vs. downward-grown jaws. If my understanding is correct, the primary trait that indicates that my mandible is downwards rotated is the fact that my jaw angles are positioned much higher than my chin, which makes my jawline itself look steep, right?

However, what is the trait that indicates that my upper jaw/maxilla is downwards-rotated as well?

What I'm wondering is if the combination of wraparound jaw implant + paranasal implants + premaxillary implant could mimic maybe ~70% of the results of double jaw surgery. I know it wouldn't make the upper lip more upturned, but I could get lip fillers and/or a lip lift to mimic the effects of that.

I know that getting more implants is cope, but if I can get even just 70% of the aesthetic improvements that I'd get from double jaw surgery, then I would honestly be satisfied with that, especially since I think it's risky to take 3-4 years to go through the whole process of getting MSE, double jaw surgery, etc. By that time, I would be almost 36 y/o. It seems like most males either start aging severely around age 35 or they continue to age gradually, but since I won't know which category I'm in until I actually reach that age, I don't think it's going to be a good idea to risk waiting until I'm actually that old to be done with everything.


How is it defeatist to point out that there are thousands of chads who have collectively significantly raised the standards on what girls consider to be GL? If I go out to one of the few bars or nightclubs in my city and multiple groups of elite military chads are there hitting on girls, can you imagine how humiliating it would be for me to even attempt to approach a girl?

Regarding the midface implant revision, my motivation for doing that is simply to get a result that I'm satisfied with (more along the lines of the result I had envisioned prior to getting the surgery), not to be more attractive to girls. That's something I'm doing 100% for me.

And no, I honestly don't have a good base. My jaw angles are very high relative to my chin, which makes the jawline itself very steep. This is an indication of downward growth, which is subconsciously interpreted by girls as an indicator of sub-optimal development and is there perceived to be an unattractive trait. My skull also pokes out too much in the back (alien skull pheno, although it's not as bad as it is with other guys), and my maxilla is at least mildly recessed/flat. This isn't even considering the eye area issues.


Sorry but how can someone who is as objectively critical of their looks as I am be narcy?

Nigga just go to taban and do whatever surgeries can have a drastic(emphasis on drastic) improvement to your psl. Then save what you’d spend on a trivial couple of mm here and there, go to Asia, and spend it on a nice car. 5ish psl but not tall not nt white guy in his late 20s isn’t gonna suddenly have a different life by adding a constantly revising implants for a perfect look that he’s never going to achieve. If you want to slay change your environment so it’s possible. I know you want to perfect your looks for yourself but when some little Asian jb is giving you roadhead in the Porsche you bought instead of getting 5 implant revisions you may find it was a better choice. The status boost of being chad is not from the objective looks themselves but from how everyone treats you because of your looks. A quarter of a psl point in the us wont do that. Frauding(or having idk you’re situation) wealth and being a pretty good looking white guy in Asia will give you that boost in treatment/validation. Looking better in the mirror won’t make you feel like a slayer, actually being a slayer will.

 

[SurgerySoon]

Nigga just go to taban and do whatever surgeries can have a drastic(emphasis on drastic) improvement to your psl. Then save what you’d spend on a trivial couple of mm here and there, go to Asia, and spend it on a nice car. 5ish psl but not tall not nt white guy in his late 20s isn’t gonna suddenly have a different life by adding a constantly revising implants for a perfect look that he’s never going to achieve. If you want to slay change your environment so it’s possible. I know you want to perfect your looks for yourself but when some little Asian jb is giving you roadhead in the Porsche you bought instead of getting 5 implant revisions you may find it was a better choice. The status boost of being chad is not from the objective looks themselves but from how everyone treats you because of your looks. A quarter of a psl point in the us wont do that. Frauding(or having idk you’re situation) wealth and being a pretty good looking white guy in Asia will give you that boost in treatment/validation. Looking better in the mirror won’t make you feel like a slayer, actually being a slayer will.

I get the point you're making, but again, what you said basically reinforces (again) why I don't really want to get anymore surgeries done. The thought of having to spend $20k+ to go to Taban just to be 5-ish PSL (so high end of avg, maybe slightly above avg) and have to move to a DIFFERENT CONTINENT and settle for hooking up with girls I'm not even attracted to just makes the whole prospect sound depressing, you know what I mean?

In other words, it's like the analogy I made in a previous post about how you wouldn't want to spend 8 more years in school just to get a job paying $15/hr. It's literally a case of not having the motivation to pursue more surgeries because the end eventual outcome is not one I'd nearly be satisfied with. I am simply not interested in Asian girls (not being racist here, just literally no attraction for me), and with my career I won't be able to live outside of the US.

Edited to add: I noticed you said I'm trying to pursue a perfect look that I'll never be able to achieve. Why is this? If it's because of the reasons I assume you're referring to (e.g., skull shape, ratios/proportions, downward growth, etc.), then isn't the whole point of undergoing invasive osteotomies to change those fundamental elements of someone's face? You've seen the results of surgeons like Raffaini, who's turned literal ugly people into near-model tier superhumans, right? Yes, those results came at the expense of very invasive surgeries, but those kinds of results justify the invasiveness of the surgeries (IMO). If those people were able to get such stunning, identity-changing results, why wouldn't I be able to as well?

 

[OOGABOOGA]

I get the point you're making, but again, what you said basically reinforces (again) why I don't really want to get anymore surgeries done. The thought of having to spend $20k+ to go to Taban just to be 5-ish PSL (so high end of avg, maybe slightly above avg) and have to move to a DIFFERENT CONTINENT and settle for hooking up with girls I'm not even attracted to just makes the whole prospect sound depressing, you know what I mean?

In other words, it's like the analogy I made in a previous post about how you wouldn't want to spend 8 more years in school just to get a job paying $15/hr. It's literally a case of not having the motivation to pursue more surgeries because the end eventual outcome is not one I'd nearly be satisfied with. I am simply not interested in Asian girls (not being racist here, just literally no attraction for me), and with my career I won't be able to live outside of the US.

Edited to add: I noticed you said I'm trying to pursue a perfect look that I'll never be able to achieve. Why is this? If it's because of the reasons I assume you're referring to (e.g., skull shape, ratios/proportions, downward growth, etc.), then isn't the whole point of undergoing invasive osteotomies to change those fundamental elements of someone's face? You've seen the results of surgeons like Raffaini, who's turned literal ugly people into near-model tier superhumans, right? Yes, those results came at the expense of very invasive surgeries, but those kinds of results justify the invasiveness of the surgeries (IMO). If those people were able to get such stunning, identity-changing results, why wouldn't I be able to as well?

Tbh I didn’t read your other posts, skimmed others. You write looong ass posts my guy. I had labeled you more as someone who just wants a constant string of surgeries and had the money for it. And hey if you’re not into Ching Chong chicas then that’s just more for me! Also never heard of raffaini but would love to see what he’s achieved if you could post some pics. But if you’re looking into osteotomies that’s a different story. I’m new here so all I’ve seen you talk about is revising your implants and everyone else telling you to fuck off about it so I thought that had been a more consistent thing.

 

[SurgerySoon]

Tbh I didn’t read your other posts, skimmed others. You write looong ass posts my guy. I had labeled you more as someone who just wants a constant string of surgeries and had the money for it. And hey if you’re not into Ching Chong chicas then that’s just more for me! Also never heard of raffaini but would love to see what he’s achieved if you could post some pics. But if you’re looking into osteotomies that’s a different story. I’m new here so all I’ve seen you talk about is revising your implants and everyone else telling you to fuck off about it so I thought that had been a more consistent thing.

Yeah, you're right, everyone is basically telling me to fuck off when it comes to getting my midface implants revised, but there's a lot more to what I want to do than just that (assume I decide to get anymore surgeries in the first place).

Here's Raffini's before/afters (especially check out #'s 2 and 3):

galleria casi di chirurgia, maxillofacciale, ortognatica, rinoplastica e chirurgia estetica facesurgery

www.facesurgery.it

Paying $20k+ to Taban just to maybe inch my way slightly beyond 5 PSL isn't worth it for me, so if I decide to get anything else done I'll be doing that plus osteotomies with someone like Raffaini or Sailor PLUS whatever else it will take for me to reach/break the 6 PSL barrier. Otherwise it's just not worth it to become MAYBE average-ish.

BTW, enjoy the chicas, LOL. Just not my type

 

[OOGABOOGA]

Yeah, you're right, everyone is basically telling me to fuck off when it comes to getting my midface implants revised, but there's a lot more to what I want to do than just that (assume I decide to get anymore surgeries in the first place).

Here's Raffini's before/afters (especially check out #'s 2 and 3):

galleria casi di chirurgia, maxillofacciale, ortognatica, rinoplastica e chirurgia estetica facesurgery

www.facesurgery.it

Paying $20k+ to Taban just to maybe inch my way slightly beyond 5 PSL isn't worth it for me, so if I decide to get anything else done I'll be doing that plus osteotomies with someone like Raffaini or Sailor PLUS whatever else it will take for me to reach/break the 6 PSL barrier. Otherwise it's just not worth it to become MAYBE average-ish.

BTW, enjoy the chicas, LOL. Just not my type

Ok those results are fantastic but it seems a bit like he’s taking people with attractive features and jaw deformities and just fixing the jaws. Idk maybe that’s just my brain trying to justify those insane ascensions. What number lefort were they, or was it something else?

 

[Gosick]

Yeah, you're right, everyone is basically telling me to fuck off when it comes to getting my midface implants revised, but there's a lot more to what I want to do than just that (assume I decide to get anymore surgeries in the first place).

Here's Raffini's before/afters (especially check out #'s 2 and 3):

galleria casi di chirurgia, maxillofacciale, ortognatica, rinoplastica e chirurgia estetica facesurgery

www.facesurgery.it

Paying $20k+ to Taban just to maybe inch my way slightly beyond 5 PSL isn't worth it for me, so if I decide to get anything else done I'll be doing that plus osteotomies with someone like Raffaini or Sailor PLUS whatever else it will take for me to reach/break the 6 PSL barrier. Otherwise it's just not worth it to become MAYBE average-ish.

BTW, enjoy the chicas, LOL. Just not my type

jfl the problem is with ur eye area , you will never have a MM tier eye area no matter what you do most likely which wll prevent you from being chad tier

 

[SurgerySoon]

Ok those results are fantastic but it seems a bit like he’s taking people with attractive features and jaw deformities and just fixing the jaws. Idk maybe that’s just my brain trying to justify those insane ascensions. What number lefort were they, or was it something else?

I'm not sure what kinds of LeForts he's performing; I think I read somewhere that it's LF1 for most of those patients, along with any other cosmetic procedures (e.g., rhinoplasty, chin shortening, whatever the fuck else) they might benefit from. This is how I look at it -- if most of those people had worse-off starting points (aesthetically-speaking) than me, then I should hopefully be able to break the 6 PSL barrier if I pursue similar surgeries that are designed to basically reshape aspects of the skull.

I honestly think part of my issue is due to general phenotype (skull shape, steep jaw angles with an overall downward-grown "look"), so I'm hoping that undergoing osteotomies to change the fundamental nature of what my skull and face look like in combination with eye surgery with Taban can really overhaul my looks in a good way.

jfl the problem is with ur eye area , you will never have a MM tier eye area no matter what you do most likely which wll prevent you from being chad tier

Why not though? I mean if I'm willing to pay the best surgeons in the world tens of thousands of dollars to literally carve and re-shape the bones of my face, who says I don't have the ability to get dangerously close to an MM-tier eye area? (this is taking into account what can be achieved by getting both eye surgery with Taban and osteotomies with someone like Raffaini or Sailor btw)

 

[OOGABOOGA]

I'm not sure what kinds of LeForts he's performing; I think I read somewhere that it's LF1 for most of those patients, along with any other cosmetic procedures (e.g., rhinoplasty, chin shortening, whatever the fuck else) they might benefit from. This is how I look at it -- if most of those people had worse-off starting points (aesthetically-speaking) than me, then I should hopefully be able to break the 6 PSL barrier if I pursue similar surgeries that are designed to basically reshape aspects of the skull.

I honestly think part of my issue is due to general phenotype (skull shape, steep jaw angles with an overall downward-grown "look"), so I'm hoping that undergoing osteotomies to change the fundamental nature of what my skull and face look like in combination with eye surgery with Taban can really overhaul my looks in a good way.


Why not though? I mean if I'm willing to pay the best surgeons in the world tens of thousands of dollars to literally carve and re-shape the bones of my face, who says I don't have the ability to get dangerously close to an MM-tier eye area? (this is taking into account what can be achieved by getting both eye surgery with Taban and osteotomies with someone like Raffaini or Sailor btw)

I don’t think it’s fair to assume equal commie style ascension. Like saying someone with an average nose will get just as much out of a rhino as someone with a fucked up crooked mess.

Also don’t fall into the binary of either MM tier or shit tier eyes. If you’ve got 30th percentile eye area and get it up to 80th you’re nowhere near Mm tier, but still have improved drastically. And if that’s your biggest failo then that would be a big win. True top tier model eyes aren’t something you can just create. Like I know my ipd and pfl are too low, I’m never gonna have mm tier eyes, but if I work on them they can at least be pretty good.

But yeah like they say, surgery is for fixing failos. Don’t aim for perfection bc it’s not gonna happen. Aim for the biggest areas of potential improvement. Your midface doesn’t seem to be a failo. That title is reserved for your eyes and apparently your downward grown jaw. I wouldn’t know bc I don’t know what you look like, this is just what I’ve picked up. Gn

 

[SurgerySoon]

I don’t think it’s fair to assume equal commie style ascension. Like saying someone with an average nose will get just as much out of a rhino as someone with a fucked up crooked mess.

Also don’t fall into the binary of either MM tier or shit tier eyes. If you’ve got 30th percentile eye area and get it up to 80th you’re nowhere near Mm tier, but still have improved drastically. And if that’s your biggest failo then that would be a big win. True top tier model eyes aren’t something you can just create. Like I know my ipd and pfl are too low, I’m never gonna have mm tier eyes, but if I work on them they can at least be pretty good.

But yeah like they say, surgery is for fixing failos. Don’t aim for perfection bc it’s not gonna happen. Aim for the biggest areas of potential improvement. Your midface doesn’t seem to be a failo. That title is reserved for your eyes and apparently your downward grown jaw. I wouldn’t know bc I don’t know what you look like, this is just what I’ve picked up. Gn

TBH I'm going for all of it (*if* I decide to get anything else done). Fix failos, create halos, you name it... I don't care what the risks are because I have nothing to lose in the event of a terrible outcome, since it's not like my aesthetics have done me ANY favors up to this point of my life

 

[OOGABOOGA]

TBH I'm going for all of it (*if* I decide to get anything else done). Fix failos, create halos, you name it... I don't care what the risks are because I have nothing to lose in the event of a terrible outcome, since it's not like my aesthetics have done me ANY favors up to this point of my life

Yeah but why though. Really think about that shit. You’ll get diminishing returns w/o a doubt. Idk your motive but mine is to get good looking enough to have an attractive wife(no rush) that loves me(so maybe not American) and raise a bunch of kids with better genes and environment than I had. What are you hoping to achieve by risking botching your shit for the perfect whatever. Surgery can and inevitably will be a looksmin if you get too much done.

 

[SurgerySoon]

Yeah but why though. Really think about that shit. You’ll get diminishing returns w/o a doubt. Idk your motive but mine is to get good looking enough to have an attractive wife(no rush) that loves me(so maybe not American) and raise a bunch of kids with better genes and environment than I had. What are you hoping to achieve by risking botching your shit for the perfect whatever. Surgery can and inevitably will be a looksmin if you get too much done.

For me it's largely about getting the kinds of looks I've wanted since I was younger. At this stage of my life (almost 32) I know I'm not getting married or having kids (I don't want either of those things) and am eager to finally focus 1000% of my efforts on doing anything and everything I can to making myself look attractive to an extent that I can be satisfied with. Up until a few weeks ago, getting girls was more of a motivating factor, but now that I realize that my age alone will make me ineligible in the minds of most prime girls in their 20's, I pretty much just want to do all this for myself.

 

[OOGABOOGA]

For me it's largely about getting the kinds of looks I've wanted since I was younger. At this stage of my life (almost 32) I know I'm not getting married or having kids (I don't want either of those things) and am eager to finally focus 1000% of my efforts on doing anything and everything I can to making myself look attractive to an extent that I can be satisfied with. Up until a few weeks ago, getting girls was more of a motivating factor, but now that I realize that my age alone will make me ineligible in the minds of most prime girls in their 20's, I pretty much just want to do all this for myself.

Ah I hear you, even if I don’t quite understand you. Anyway, why no kids? Don’t you think you’ll look back when you’re 60 and regret that?

 

[SurgerySoon]

Ah I hear you, even if I don’t quite understand you. Anyway, why no kids? Don’t you think you’ll look back when you’re 60 and regret that?

No, I'm sure I won't regret it. At this point of my age (32 y/o), I just know for a fact that I'm more interested in being able to what I want with the rest of my life and having the freedom and flexibility to do whatever I feel like doing. Another way to look at it is, if I could very well end up spending the entire rest of my life as an incel, at least I'll still have the time, freedom, and money to do what I want with my time, as opposed to the chads who eventually get cucked into marriage and and settle into a boring, bland middle-age lifestyle. Also, I'm getting a late start on my career, so I want to have the flexibility to be able to make as much $$ as possible and make up for lost time.

 

[Throwaway1028]

still whites > all

 

[SurgerySoon]

@forwardgrowth What do you think about what I said in one of my previous posts? Do you think my recession is mild enough that I could get maybe 70% of the results I'd get with double jaw surgery from the combination of wraparound jaw implant (I already have a chin implant) + paranasal + premaxillary implants, along with maybe a lip lift and lip fillers? The only issue with MSE + double jaw surgery is that I'd be really old when the whole process would be finished, and it's a big risk to wait that long.

 

[forwardgrowth]

You definitely could, go the wraparound jaw implant, paranasal + premaxillary implants, with lip lift

if you want to get everything done in 1-2yrs instead of 3 with double jaw

 

[SurgerySoon]

You definitely could, go the wraparound jaw implant, paranasal + premaxillary implants, with lip lift

if you want to get everything done in 1-2yrs instead of 3 with double jaw

Thanks; I feel like with me being so damn old at this point, I won't be able to benefit as much from the full aesthetic benefits of double jaw surgery anyways, so I would honestly be happy with 70% of what double jaw surgery would accomplish, especially since time is such a critical factor here.

On a related note, I wonder if there is any way to temporarily simulate the effects of improved forward growth using fillers? Haven't seen any before/after patient photo examples where this has been attempted yet

 

[OOGABOOGA]

You definitely could, go the wraparound jaw implant, paranasal + premaxillary implants, with lip lift

if you want to get everything done in 1-2yrs instead of 3 with double jaw

Can you break down how mse and all adds up to 1-2 years?

 

[SurgerySoon]

Can you break down how mse and all adds up to 1-2 years?

I think it's because you have to wear the MSE for at least 1 year (I could be wrong). Then you have to deal with braces and all that shit when it comes to double jaw surgery, plus more intense/lengthier recovery (I think?) as compared to recovery from implant surgery

 

[OOGABOOGA]

I think it's because you have to wear the MSE for at least 1 year (I could be wrong). Then you have to deal with braces and all that shit when it comes to double jaw surgery, plus more intense/lengthier recovery (I think?) as compared to recovery from implant surgery

Huh I thought Ron ead did 84 turns in like 3 months. Didn’t know you had to keep it in but that makes sense to prevent relapse. I figured the rest of the one was just braces to fix the gap

 

[SurgerySoon]

Huh I thought Ron ead did 84 turns in like 3 months. Didn’t know you had to keep it in but that makes sense to prevent relapse. I figured the rest of the one was just braces to fix the gap

TBH I'm not very familiar with various types of retainers or face masks, so I probably don't know what I'm talking about. Definitely need to do more research

 

[OOGABOOGA]

TBH I'm not very familiar with various types of retainers or face masks, so I probably don't know what I'm talking about. Definitely need to do more research

@forwardgrowth said he had mse so we can just wait for him to wake up

Just curious what’s the career you’re starting so late. Something medical?