Keynesian economics is retarded

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Deleted member 17791

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They think you can just spend your way out of a recession without suffering major long term problems.

The whole idea is saving when times are good and spending a lot when times are bad. I'll explain the reasoning.

Say you have an economic crash, unemployment is high and people are scared of losing their jobs, so they spend less, resulting in the economy moving more slowly. So the government steps in and spends money on public works programs, bail outs etc to get the economy moving again. This results in an economic expansion where the state can lay back and pay off its debts.

So what is the problem? The problem is that the economy is far too complex for the state to know what to invest in, the state ends up fuelling the expansion of industries to the size that they're bigger than what the market would naturally allow. This is what is know as zombie companies, corporations that have gotten high on debt fuelled expansion but can't become profitable.

Keynesian economic policy fuels the creation of these zombie companies, the economy becomes chockablock with these over leveraged institutions which results in the whole economy becoming less productive. The economy becomes less productive because there is a high percentage of companies that must deal with excessive debts instead of lowering prices or investing in new technologies.

So because the economy becomes less productive, the state is unable to lay off its fiscal policies, they must continue to keep interest rates lower than historical rates. This means the government can never get back to a state of relaxation and lower it's debts to be prepared for the next crash.

So during the event of the next crash, the economy still has the government artificially lowering interest rates, artificially money easier to borrow, artificially propping up these zombie companies, so the state must lower interest rates even further to save the economy, they must spend even more than before to get the same effect as last time.

Keynesian economics results in a feedback loop of ever increasing magnitude of state intervention of the economy to just get the same returns. It's a drug and eventually the house of cards will fall down.
 
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holy jesus 19,278 posts in 5 months are a lot, mate

what you do for living? besides holding forums traffic and keeping mods happy
 
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holy jesus 19,278 posts in 5 months are a lot, mate

what you do for living? besides holding forums traffic and keeping mods happy
Please stay on topic
 
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Moto Moto mogs hard :feelshah:
 
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🤙🤙🤙🤙😻🐒
 
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China is filled with zombie companies and projects, wouldn't be surprised if they'll have an economic collapse in the future
 
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China is filled with zombie companies and projects, wouldn't be surprised if they'll have an economic collapse in the future
Most likely end up like japan. A stagnant economy unable to progress.
 
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Most likely end up like japan. A stagnant economy unable to progress.
Only if they'll mange to reach Japan's peak, china already deals with a huge demographic crisis
 
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Only if they'll mange to reach Japan's peak, china already deals with a huge demographic crisis
I suppose, they'll definitely be worse off than japan but they still have a large export capacity, so I doubt there will be a 'collapse'
 
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Good points tbh, are you reading any books or watching lectures? Let me in on that shit

But tbh I think Keynesian Economics is good.
 
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Good points tbh, are you reading any books or watching lectures? Let me in on that shit

But tbh I think Keynesian Economics is good.
Bro, I never read. I just watch youtube videos on the subject tbh.

So how would you side step this problem? I suppose you can only concentrate on investing in infrastructure because you know for a fact that that will be beneficial for a long time but that limits you to only smaller scale fiscal policy and not large scale intervention.

Some state influence in the economy is good but the very hands on approach, I don't think can work
 
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Bro, I never read. I just watch youtube videos on the subject tbh.

So how would you side step this problem? I suppose you can only concentrate on investing in infrastructure because you know for a fact that that will be beneficial for a long time but that limits you to only smaller scale fiscal policy and not large scale intervention.

Some state influence in the economy is good but the very hands on approach, I don't think can work
True, tbh I don’t know a whole lot about Keynesian economics, I just know the only way to get out of a recession is to get people to spend money. If unemployment is high though than the gov needs to be allowed to step in and provide some sort of economic relief. Stimulus and subsidies can only do so much imo

I do understand your point but I just don’t see any other solution. But I don’t know much about economics either so there’s that.
 
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True, tbh I don’t know a whole lot about Keynesian economics, I just know the only way to get out of a recession is to get people to spend money. If unemployment is high though than the gov needs to be allowed to step in and provide some sort of economic relief. Stimulus and subsidies can only do so much imo

I do understand your point but I just don’t see any other solution. But I don’t know much about economics either so there’s that.
The economy would usually be in the shitter for like a year and then it would start recovering again. That's how it was during the 1800s, you had booms and busts every ten to twenty years (just like now) but instead of having slow recessions and recoveries, you have sharp dips and fast recoveries.

So I guess we should have some kind of government program to save people who lose jobs during those periods.
 
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mmm, is bank's job to lend money to profitable firms. if they fail is not because of "keynesian economics is retarded" lol
 
mmm, is bank's job to lend money to profitable firms. if they fail is not because of "keynesian economics is retarded" lol
It is because the state makes bad investments look good with extremely low interest rates
 
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It is because the state makes bad investments look good with extremely low interest rates
no, banks still will suffer from NPL and fail. it's their best interest to finance only good projects, then ofc there are a lot of problems, but it would take ages to explain them.
 
no, banks still will suffer from NPL and fail. it's their best interest to finance only good projects, then ofc there are a lot of problems, but it would take ages to explain them.
of course it is but it's impossible to tell what is good when interest rates are like 0.8%. A normal interest rate is around 4% to 10%.

The government has made it near impossible to properly assess an investment and the risks involved.

That's the whole point of my thread, Keynesian economics tries to get banks and other institutions to spend more than usual. That's literally what it is, getting you to spend (in anything) rather than to save.
 
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of course it is but it's impossible to tell what is good when interest rates are like 0.8%. A normal interest rate is around 4% to 10%.

The government has made it near impossible to properly assess an investment and the risks involved.

That's the whole point of my thread, Keynesian economics tries to get banks and other institutions to spend more than usual. That's literally what it is, getting you to spend (in anything) rather than to save.
interest rate has nothing to do with the ability to assess an investment lol banks still have capital requirements, if they're going to finance a risky project is going to be COSTLY in terms of capital needed, there are measures to prevent what you are saying would happen if there was no regulation at all.
 
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interest rate has nothing to do with the ability to assess an investment lol banks still have capital requirements, if they're going to finance a risky project is going to be COSTLY in terms of capital needed, there are measures to prevent what you are saying would happen if there was no regulation at all.
Lowering interest rates is done by the state to try to lower the costs. That's the whole point.

Banks are retarded, that's why they had to be bailed out several times, they constantly become over leveraged.

You think these institutions can tell what is optimal when real life has shown that they're run by corporate psychopaths only interested in exploiting.
 
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Lowering interest rates is done by the state to try to lower the costs. That's the whole point.

Banks are retarded, that's why they had to be bailed out several times, they constantly become over leveraged.

You think these institutions can tell what is optimal when real life has shown that they're run by corporate psychopaths only interested in exploiting.
regulation has gone a long way since banks' crash. not to mention that there is a whooooole lot of shit behind that, it's completely not government's fault. interest rate is not the only cost, they must also have capital reserves and distribute adeguate dividends and price returns to gather that capital, aka if the operativity is bad they fail, they can't take bad decisions because they won't be bailed out anymore.
 
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regulation has gone a long way since banks' crash. not to mention that there is a whooooole lot of shit behind that, it's completely not government's fault. interest rate is not the only cost, they must also have capital reserves and distribute adeguate dividends and price returns to gather that capital, aka if the operativity is bad they fail, they can't take bad decisions because they won't be bailed out anymore.
Hmm, we'll see what happens after this cycle.

Good points boyo.
 
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Hmm, we'll see what happens after this cycle.

Good points boyo.
lol, this cycle is a whole new mess, huge debt due to covid, inflation due to war and basically the needing to contain inflation and make economy receed when it's already stagnating, plus the drop in PIL due to trade interruption with Russia. It's going to be bad for sure but it's not because of keynesian economics (which are not a panacea, original keynesian economics are outdated).
 
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lol, this cycle is a whole new mess, huge debt due to covid, inflation due to war and basically the needing to contain inflation and make economy receed when it's already stagnating, plus the drop in PIL due to trade interruption with Russia. It's going to be bad for sure but it's not because of keynesian economics (which are not a panacea, original keynesian economics is outdated).
Most of the debt already existed prior to covid 19.

That lockdown shit was just the straw that broke the camel's back. Too much pressure finally made the economy start to buckle.
 
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Most of the debt already existed prior to covid 19.

That lockdown shit was just the straw that broke the camel's back. Too much pressure finally made the economy start to buckle.
true that but it's still a factor, debt suddenly increased by 30% in 2 years in italy, that's unprecedent.
 
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true that but it's still a factor, debt suddenly increased by 30% in 2 years in italy, that's unprecedent.
I don't know much about italian and EU economy, I was mostly thinking of the US and anglo sphere economies.
 
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I don't know much about italian and EU economy, I was mostly thinking of the US and anglo sphere economies.
Same shit broda. Neoclassical economics Is shit lol Just don't do anything because the world Is already perfect :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
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Same shit broda. Neoclassical economics Is shit lol Just don't do anything because the world Is already perfect :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
Yeah Im not an non interventionist.
 
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Didn't read but Keynesian policies have been very successful empirically. Austerity in recessions is giga retarded
 
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