Long face/skull

[fazehamster]

Are they any surgeries which help which a long face or skull and narrow chin

 

[Manfrommars]

Bimax and implants

 

[Lefor3Laser]

Bimax and implants

Yes but bimax won't always help if he doesn't have any gummy smile, but you're right on the implant one.

 

[Manfrommars]

Yes but bimax won't always help if he doesn't have any gummy smile, but you're right on the implant one.

Bimax can be done to widen the jaw and chin

 

[Lefor3Laser]

Bimax can be done to widen the jaw and chin

Yes that right, but it is limited though, depends on your condyle and how much can it be roated with out causing problems, it doesn't widen the chin technically, only implants do, even the custom genioplasty doesn't do that.

 

[Snicket]

Are they any surgeries which help which a long face or skull and narrow chin

Not really unfortunately if the problem is midface.

Jaw surgery can addressed downward jaws though.

 

[Snicket]

Bimax and implants

Bimax is the best option available but doesn’t actually address a long midface.

 

[Snicket]

Yes but bimax won't always help if he doesn't have any gummy smile, but you're right on the implant one.

It also won’t help if the downward growth extends to the midface. Not even higher level osteotomies can address this.

 

[Lefor3Laser]

It also won’t help if the downward growth extends to the midface. Not even higher level osteotomies can address this.

Yeah, basically you are botching yourself rather than fixing, better stay downgrown rather than botched imo.

 

[Snicket]

Yeah, basically you are botching yourself rather than fixing, better stay downgrown rather than botched imo.

No, I mean even theoretically, high level Leforts can’t fix it. You don’t hear of LF2/3 impactions and rotation is far more difficult and fraught with complications.

High level osteotomies are usually reserved for a severely recessed maxilla which just needs advancement - not downward growth.

 

[jimhart]

get jaw fillers

 

[moze]

No, I mean even theoretically, high level Leforts can’t fix it. You don’t hear of LF2/3 impactions and rotation is far more difficult and fraught with complications.

High level osteotomies are usually reserved for a severely recessed maxilla which just needs advancement - not downward growth.

High cut lf can

 

[moze]

No, I mean even theoretically, high level Leforts can’t fix it. You don’t hear of LF2/3 impactions and rotation is far more difficult and fraught with complications.

High level osteotomies are usually reserved for a severely recessed maxilla which just needs advancement - not downward growth.

High cut lf can

 

[moze]

View attachment 3562064

Modified lf3
I dont know from where you heard its not possible to shorten midface.actually it is possible to shorten but not lengthen

 

[tweaqo]

Are they any surgeries which help which a long face or skull and narrow chin

Lefort 1 impaction can reduce long midface. U can get implants/ custom genioplasty to change shape of chin

 

[tweaqo]

View attachment 3562066
Modified lf3
I dont know from where you heard its not possible to shorten midface.actually it is possible to shorten but not lengthen

Hardly any surgeons perform lf3 tho, which is why to reduce long midface u could just do Lefort 1 impaction

 

[moze]

Lefort 1 impaction can reduce long midface. U can get implants/ custom genioplasty to change shape of chin

Nope.impaction will only reduce lower facial height.only a high cut lefort 1 or lefort 2 can reduce midfacial height

 

[Snicket]

High cut lf can

High LF1 doesn’t correct downward growth.

All Quad LF1 does is advance more of the midface - it can’t shorten it.
Rotation is more limited than a conventional bimax.

In the post surgical example of the boy, he is still clearly downward grown.

Any improvements you might see from the frontal view come from the elevation of the nasal tip which you can get from a standard LF1 advancement.

 

[Snicket]

Nope.impaction will only reduce lower facial height.only a high cut lefort 1 or lefort 2 can reduce midfacial height

Just wrong. A LeFort 2 does not reduce mid facial height. It often makes the nose much bigger as well creating, the illusion of an even longer midface.

That’s why it’s often performed in people with Apert’s syndrome

 

[moze]

Just wrong. A LeFort 2 does not reduce mid facial height. It often makes the nose much bigger as well creating, the illusion of an even longer midface.

That’s why it’s often performed in people with Apert’s syndrome

View attachment 3562066
Modified lf3
I dont know from where you heard its not possible to shorten midface.actually it is possible to shorten but not lengthen

Explain this then.

 

[moze]

High LF1 doesn’t correct downward growth.

All Quad LF1 does is advance more of the midface - it can’t shorten it.
Rotation is more limited than a conventional bimax.

In the post surgical example of the boy, he is still clearly downward grown.

Any improvements you might see from the frontal view come from the elevation of the nasal tip which you can get from a standard LF1 advancement.

Rotation is definitely possible with lf2 and 3
Giant did it in a patient

 

[Snicket]

Explain this then.

Modified LF3 + LF1 + rhinoplasty I believe

Rotation is definitely possible with lf2 and 3
Giant did it in a patient

Never said it was impossible, just highly limited. An entire upswing of the entire maxilla can’t be achieved, not even close by these procedures.

I don’t believe there is any surgical solution to downward growth available at the moment, at least not from high level LeForts.

 

[moze]

Modified LF3 + LF1 + rhinoplasty I believe

Never said it was impossible, just highly limited. An entire upswing of the entire maxilla can’t be achieved, not even close by these procedures.

I don’t believe there is any surgical solution to downward growth available at the moment, at least not from high level LeForts.

By modified lf3 entire maxilla or almost entire maxilla can be moved upward as scene in this case

 

[Snicket]

By modified lf3 entire maxilla or almost entire maxilla can be moved upward as scene in this case

Modified LeFort 3 does not mobilise the entire maxilla full stop.

It's anatomically near impossible to achieve a full upswing of the maxilla using these procedures.

You have no idea what you're talking about. You're lucky you dealing with a bunch of teenagers who can't call you out on it.

 

[moze]

Modified LeFort 3 does not mobilise the entire maxilla full stop.

It's anatomically near impossible to achieve a full upswing of the maxilla using these procedures.

You have no idea what you're talking about. You're lucky you dealing with a bunch of teenagers who can't call you out on it.

You are just saying that its impossible without explaining it.looks like you are just coping coz you cant practically do these surgeries.yea it does not mobilise the entire maxilla but it mobilise most part of the maxilla and important parts.at first you said that its not possible to reduce midfacial height now when i showed photos you are saying that its possible and now you are catching on other things

 

[Snicket]

You are just saying that its impossible without explaining it.

It's like being told to explain why a car can't fly.

If you understood what these procedures entail, you'd know it's anatomically impossible for LF2/LF3 to achieve an upswing of the entire maxilla.

There is no evidence that LF2/3 can address downward growth. I don't have to find proof for your stupid claims - you do.
Your poorly chosen photos prove my point.

yea it does not mobilise the entire maxilla but it mobilise most part of the maxilla and important parts

MLF3 does not even mobilise most of the maxilla.
This is the actual cut:

at first you said that its not possible to reduce midfacial height now when i showed photos you are saying that its possible and now you are catching on other things

I explained what happened in each of your examples.
The boy is still downward grown after the quadrangular lefort 1.
The woman's midface looks more compact thanks to the LF1 elevating the nasal tip + rhinoplasty.

 

[Lefor3Laser]

Modified LeFort 3 does not mobilise the entire maxilla full stop.

It's anatomically near impossible to achieve a full upswing of the maxilla using these procedures.

You have no idea what you're talking about. You're lucky you dealing with a bunch of teenagers who can't call you out on it.

I do agree, realistically even if it was possible, you have to also take into consideration the nerves in the region, you can't do something that a le fort 1 does with le fort 3.

 

[Lefor3Laser]

You are just saying that its impossible without explaining it.looks like you are just coping coz you cant practically do these surgeries.yea it does not mobilise the entire maxilla but it mobilise most part of the maxilla and important parts.at first you said that its not possible to reduce midfacial height now when i showed photos you are saying that its possible and now you are catching on other things

Yes but if le fort 3 does that, then why they didn't do it for her at the first time, she did le fort 1 after thar wich does what a le fort 3 couldn't.

 

[Snicket]

I do agree, realistically even if it was possible, you have to also take into consideration the nerves in the region, you can't do something that a le fort 1 does with le fort 3.

Exaclty. I've watched a LF3 procedure. Anyone who's seen this operation immediately knows that achieving an upward swing of the whole maxilla is not possible. The sheer invasivness of the operation also means you have far less latitude for rotation.

 

[Snicket]

View attachment 3563627
Yes but if le fort 3 does that, then why they didn't do it for her at the first time, she did le fort 1 after thar wich does what a le fort 3 couldn't.

The woman had many more procedures after LeFort 3.
I know she had a rhinoplasty in the after picture.
LeFort 2/3 don't make the midface more compact.

 

[Snicket]

I do agree, realistically even if it was possible, you have to also take into consideration the nerves in the region, you can't do something that a le fort 1 does with le fort 3.

Even on a more basic level. MLF3 doesn't even touch enough of the midfacial area needed to make the midface more compact. It touches the orbital and zygomatic area predominantly.
Moze just doesn't have a clue.

 

[Lefor3Laser]

The woman had many more procedures after LeFort 3.
I know she had a rhinoplasty in the after picture.
LeFort 2/3 don't make the midface more compact.

Yes that's why i brought her case, she also got le fort 1, the le fort 1 did the magic, this couldn't have been achieved trough le fort 3, that was my point,if it was, then why she got le fort 1 after?

 

[moze]

View attachment 3563627
Yes but if le fort 3 does that, then why they didn't do it for her at the first time, she did le fort 1 after thar wich does what a le fort 3 couldn't.

Even on a more basic level. MLF3 doesn't even touch the midfacial area needed to make the midface more compact. It touches the orbital and zygomatic area predominantly.
Moze just doesn't have a clue.

In her case moving the orbital and zygomatic
Area allowed her more movement of the lf1 area.i meant that it is possible to change to midface ratio if you calculate her before and after you can notice change in the midface ratio.about the upswing i said that it is theoretically possible to do it with not practically

 

[Snicket]

In her case moving the orbital and zygomatic
Area allowed her more movement of the lf1 area

This is irrelevant to your original claim that MLF3 makes the midface shorter. Don’t weasel out of this.

Any meaningful comparison of midface ratios should be compared with photos without a smile.

And if there is an improvement, it’s not because of MLF3.

 

[moze]

Even on a more basic level. MLF3 doesn't even touch enough of the midfacial area needed to make the midface more compact. It touches the orbital and zygomatic area predominantly.
Moze just doesn't have a clue.

If you look at the pattern of downward growth most of it takes place at the lf1 area and mandible.upper part of face have more bone density so that prt is not that downgrown so few mm of advancment can almost make up for it.the goal is to look how you are supposed to

 

[moze]

This is irrelevant to your original claim that MLF3 makes the midface shorter. Don’t weasel out of this.

Show me midface shortening without touching the lf2/3 area

 

[moze]

Show me midface shortening without touching the lf2/3 area

Any one pic

 

[Snicket]

If you look at the pattern of downward growth most of it takes place at the lf1 area and mandible.upper part of face have more bone density so that prt is not that downgrown

If you’re right and downward growth is only confined to the jaws , why were you advocating LeFort 3 in the first place?

Downward growth usually extends across the entire maxilla.

 

[moze]

If you’re right and downward growth is only confined to the jaws , why were you advocating LeFort 3 in the first place?

Downward growth usually extends across the entire maxilla.

It does effect entire maxilla but the lower part of face is more prone to changes due to less density compared to upperface.

 

[moze]

If you’re right and downward growth is only confined to the jaws , why were you advocating LeFort 3 in the first place?

Downward growth usually extends across the entire maxilla.

It does effect entire maxilla but the lower part of face is more prone to changes due to less density compared to upperface.

Call me retard or whatever you want imo a good maxillary expander with a good protraction device can reverse it to certain extent.

 

[Snicket]

It does effect entire maxilla but the lower part of face is more prone to changes due to less density compared to upperface.

It’s affect not effect.

 

[Snicket]

Call me retard or whatever you want imo a good maxillary expander with a good protraction device can reverse it to certain extent.

Okay! I’ll just get jaw surgery and get an infinitely better result than you.

 

[moze]

It’s affect not effect.

Ok now show changes in midface length with bimax and rhino

 

[moze]

Okay! I’ll just get jaw surgery and get an infinitely better result than you.

It doesnt mean that i will not get jaw surgery.it will be an expensive treatment but doing both jawsurgery and expander+protraction will yeild a better result

 

[Snicket]

Ok now show changes in midface length with bimax and rhino

As I said they’re superficial. If you elevate the nasal tip with LF1 advancement or use rhino to reduce the size of the nose, you can create the illusion of a smaller midface.

The example with the QLF1 boy is actually one. You thought his midface was more compact thanks to his nose base getting more support, proving my point.

 

[Snicket]

expander+protraction will yeild a better result

It has poor medical efficacy for adults and will achieve next to nothing.

 

[moze]

As I said they’re superficial. If you elevate the nasal tip with LF1 advancement or use rhino to reduce the size of the nose, you can create the illusion of a smaller midface.

The example with the QLF1 boy is actually one. You thought his midface was more compact thanks to his nose base getting more support, proving my point.

you said tht its not possible to change midface height buti showed its possible by showing the photo of that black lady

 

[moze]

It has poor medical efficacy for adults and will achieve next to nothing.

Just look at my post.it shows that the orbital rotated upwards and the expander loosened the maxilla from other cranial bones allowing a good forward movement

 

[Snicket]

you said tht its not possible to change midface height buti showed its possible by showing the photo of that black lady

You don't read: I said LeFort 2/3 do not make the midface more compact.

Not that you can't change (at least superficially) reduce mid-facial height with other procedures.

 

[moze]

You don't read: I said LeFort 2/3 do not make the midface more compact.

Not that you can't change (at least superficially) reduce mid-facial height with other procedures.

Yea but without mlf3 it doesnt reduce the midfacial heighth