Lowering T3/T4 can make you taller?

[iblamexyz]

Shame on you indeed.

okay read some of it

does age play a factor here?

 

[topology]

okay read some of it

does age play a factor here?

T3/T4 plays a massive role either your entire life or basically your entire life so it should not matter really. Better to optimize it as soon as possible.

 

[lnceIs]

Pityful.

His first thread where he is trying to be serious instead of begging for attention and it's a complete disaster.

No amount of lowering your thyroid hormones will compensate for your lackluster genetics.

 

[topology]

No amount of lowering your thyroid hormones will compensate for your lackluster genetics.

The human body is nowhere near its genetic limits and gigantism shows that. The patients only have elevated GH levels with nothing else. Basically no pathway is in the ideal ranges. Basically every pathway can be modified too. The only major pathway which cannot currently is igf-2.

 

[lnceIs]

The human body is nowhere near its genetic limits and gigantism shows that. The patients only have elevated GH levels with nothing else.

You misunderstood the meaning of my post

 

[topology]

You misunderstood the meaning of my post

It had no meaning. You can now claim that it was a joke saying genetics matter over all but they don't. You could state many other things which are all irrelevant. Anything you could say could either be irrelevant to the point or debunked.

 

[lnceIs]

It had no meaning. You can now claim that it was a joke

You silly little boy

It was not a joke. No amount of changing your t3 will compensate for your genetics. I never denied gigantism being real, you're emberassing yourself

 

[topology]

It was not a joke. No amount of changing your t3 will compensate for your genetics. I never denied gigantism being real, you're emberassing yourself

It will and I demonstrated it. Go ahead and disprove the thread.

You silly little boy

Nice ad hominem. You've embarrassed yourself, yikes. Blunder number 1.

 

[lnceIs]

It will and I demonstrated it. Go ahead and disprove the thread.

You didn't, it's just a stupid theory.

1: Even if you were to gain an inch of height, you would still be a slave. That's your genetic destiny.

2: Now you have thyroid issues.

3: It's just a theory

4: No proof

Nice ad hominem. You've embarrassed yourself, yikes. Blunder number 1.

 

[topology]

You didn't, it's just a stupid theory.

Which you have yet to disprove.. Good one.

1: Even if you were to gain an inch of height, you would still be a slave. That's your genetic destiny.

The estimated gains are much more than an inch. Not sure why you're arguing for only optimizing the thyroid pathways when other ones could be optimized too.

2: Now you have thyroid issues.

You do not. A 10-15% decrease will not cause issues. That was factored in & is the reason we don't lower it by 500%.

3: It's just a theory

4: No proof

You've stated the same thing 3 times now.. Go ahead and disprove my theory.

 

[davidlaidisme67]

This is me spitballing, I haven't heard this discussed anywhere and I'm curious about other perspectives. The common myth is to actually TAKE more T4.

As we know, gigantism mostly occurs when a tumor forms on the pituitary gland, causing massive amounts of growth hormone to be released continuously. This skyrockets the baseline, making people dramatically taller among other things. A fair question is whether pulses would be superior to a constant baseline elevation. For normal people, yes, pulses are more efficient. But gigantism shows that if the baseline is high enough and sustained long enough, it overrides that advantage entirely. That distinction matters for what I'm about to argue.

From here on I'll refer to growth hormone as GH.

GH drives the production of new cartilage and bone material while thyroid hormone drives its conversion and maturation into actual bone. Think of GH as the person making sandwiches and thyroid hormone as the person selling them. The making is the harder and more limiting job, so allocating equal resources to both is inefficient. The bottleneck is on the production side.

Now, the chondrocyte "exhaustion timer" is commonly cited as the hard limit on height, roughly 40 replications before the cells wear out. I'd argue this is not the primary constraint. The bigger factor is simply time. Chondrocytes are mostly exhausted by how long they live and operate, not by hitting a replication ceiling. Gigantism actually demonstrates this. It forces growth to happen so rapidly that it functionally bypasses the exhaustion argument. If replication limit was the real ceiling, gigantism wouldn't work, nothing would.

So why doesn't more thyroid hormone make you taller? It should promote growth on the surface. The problem is you're deploying all your resources into selling when there isn't enough being made to keep up. Worse, research has only looked at extreme thyroid deficiency combined with GH administration in rodents. Nobody has studied the subtle range. Excess thyroid hormone accelerates growth plate ossification and closes the window faster, which is why it can actually make you shorter.

The key observation is this: a child injecting supraphysiological HGH doesn't get meaningfully taller. The growth plates are open, the GH is available, and the effect is smaller than it should be. That tells you the GH axis is not the rate-limiting step under normal physiological conditions. The only way GH overcomes this is at the extreme sustained levels seen in gigantism. Via elimination, the bottleneck sits at the chondrocyte level, and thyroid signaling is the primary driver of chondrocyte maturation and ossification rate.

Reducing thyroid signaling also reduces GH receptor sensitivity and IGF-1 production, so it can't be dropped significantly. The solution is modest suppression of thyroid activity -- whether through T4, T3, or both depending on the individual -- enough to slow ossification rate without meaningfully impairing the GH axis. The exact degree would vary by individual due to differences in thyroid sensitivity, and the window only matters while growth plates are still open. But The takeaway is that nobody actually reaches their true genetic height potential, and gigantism shows this. The ceiling isn't fixed, it's a timing problem. I don't think anyone has seriously explored this specific angle before, which is part of why I'm nervous I'm wrong or oversimplifying everything down to these three hormones. This also assumes estrogen is in check, since estrogen is its own major driver of growth plate closure and that variable needs to be controlled for any of this to hold.

Note that I simplified a lot and didn't go deep on many of the mechanisms, so there are likely gaps in how this is presented. If something seems off or underexplained, leave a comment. Any "Dnr" commentors will be promptly put on ignored.

--------------

TLDR: Chondrocytes are time-limited, not replication-limited. Thyroid signaling is the primary driver of how fast that window closes -- for everyone, including gigantism cases where GH simply overwhelms the bottleneck rather than removes it. A modest reduction in thyroid activity slows ossification rate, preserves more of the growth window, and means most people never reach their true genetic height potential.

Inb4 BOTB.

@iblamexyz @Fridx @Scandicel @polonaecel @StyIix

Pretty good post ngl. Didn’t even think of this

 

[lnceIs]

Which you have yet to disprove.. Good one.

The burden of proof lies with you, since you proposed this theory. Weak logical reasoning for a guy named topology.

The estimated gains are much more than an inch. Not sure why you're arguing for only optimizing the thyroid pathways when other ones could be optimized too.



You do not. A 10-15% decrease will not cause issues. That was factored in & is the reason we don't lower it by 500%.

A 10% decrease in thyroid hormones will not make you grow "much more than an inch". Useless rambling.

 

[topology]

The burden of proof lies with you, since you proposed this theory. Weak logical reasoning for a guy named topology.

I have shown the proof via biological pathways, making connections to gigantism, studies on t3/t4, etc. The theory makes a lot of sense & is the reason it's going to get trials.

A 10% decrease in thyroid hormones will not make you grow "much more than an inch". Useless rambling.

Can you cite your source for that..? The chondrocytes are the main limiting factor and what is called the "genetic limit." This extends the proliferation by a large margin.

 

[lnceIs]

I have shown the proof via biological pathways, making connections to gigantism, studies on t3/t4, etc. The theory makes a lot of sense & is the reason it's going to get trials.

That's not proof, it's just your theory. There are thousands of genes that determine height, the real world scenario is often different than what users on here theorize.

Can you cite your source for that..?

Can you?

Yeah, that's what I thought. The burden of proof lies with you, as you made the initial claim. It's disappointing to see you think one can claim something that is not the scientific consensus, and think the burden of proof lies with those that are, rightfully so, skeptical.

 

[topology]

That's not proof, it's just your theory. There are thousands of genes that determine height, the real world scenario is often different than what users on here theorize.

The "thousands of genes that determine height" are mostly interlinked. It's not thousands of genes that contribute equally either. On top of that, the pathways that are most of your height can basically all be optimized other than like igf-2.

The proof lies in the biology & I'd like for you to state the flaws, that was the point of the post, not for you to say "it's a theory." I'm well aware it's a theory, look at the threads tag.. Not exactly sure what you're trying to accomplish. I've demonstrated via biological systems that it's very likely to increase height & I need rebuttals for it. Go ahead and do that.

The real world scenario here is linked via gigantism & hypothyroidism/hyperthyroidism. I'm aware most theories don't look at real studies like that so I made sure to do that as well as possible.

Can you?

Yeah, that's what I thought. The burden of proof lies with you, as you made the initial claim. It's disappointing to see you think one can claim something that is not the scientific consensus, and think the burden of proof lies with those that are, rightfully so, skeptical.

Chondrocytes are what is the genetic limit.. This extends the proliferation massively.. The studies on gigantism and hyperthyroidism/hypothyroidism demonstrate both the way it can be override a bit AND the way height can be shortened. I've made many links which demonstrate that it would greatly make us closer to our genetic potential which is even past what people with gigantism experience.

It's clear you didn't read any of the points I made and are arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

[lnceIs]

The "thousands of genes that determine height" are mostly interlinked. It's not thousands of genes that contribute equally either. On top of that, the pathways that are most of your height can basically all be optimized other than like igf-2.

It doesn't matter, this discussion is futile. When I said you cannot escape your genetic destiny, I never denied you COULD improve height. We know height can be significantly improved via high dose GH.

1: Even if you were to gain an inch of height, you would still be a slave. That's your genetic destiny.

4: No proof

Still holds up. Let's give you the benefit of the doubt and say 2-3 inches. It doesn't matter.

Chondrocytes are what is the genetic limit..

That's an oversimplification

It's clear you didn't read any of the points I made and are arguing for the sake of arguing.

Not true. I have a strong disliking of people coping with theories on how they can circumvent their subpar genetics. There is nothing for your genetics. If only Inanimate Pragmatist was here..

 

[topology]

Not true. I have a strong disliking of people coping with theories on how they can circumvent their subpar genetics. There is nothing for your genetics. If only Inanimate Pragmatist was here..

You can easily get around subpar genetics for height.. Getting to 7' tall will be easily available in the future 2 generations.. AI chips alone could send pulses to the pituitary gland & secrete pulses. It would also tell you a rough estimate of how everything is so you know when to stop the hypertrophy/enlargement of the organs.

Going past that, nothing of us is optimized, so why can't we go around it? No one is going to try the stacks I recommend on children so obviously it's a theory. The theories are just rooted in the data we have on teenagers/extremes/data collected on genes/etc.

There is plenty for your genetics.

That's an oversimplification

Not really, it's why stem cell therapy is being experimented on & why it seems so promising. The more T4/T3 you have, the faster it turns into bone. Chondrocytes don't necessarily have to turn into bone at cycle 20 or 40 or 5, it can happen at the first step. If there's too much T4/T3, it causes it to happen at cycle 1 for example meaning the cartilage is inefficiently created. The entire point of my thread was to maximize this. Deficient T4/T3 also causes worse igf-1 and GH efficiency along with other issues making it need a small decrease.

The burger making/selling example I gave was very surface level as most users would not understand the nuances, hence why this may sound contradictory but is not. I could go in depth if needed.

Still holds up. Let's give you the benefit of the doubt and say 2-3 inches. It doesn't matter.

2-3 inches is a large amount.. This would be very useful for people 5'6-5'8 genetically which is about 21% of men. Only 16% of men would not have as large of a use case. This is assuming they don't fraud with shoes either which would then increase the percentage even more. The proof is rooted in the real life examples I gave, this is how trials for everything start, off a hypothesis. The other threads you've read are nothing like mine and you know it. They are purely speculation with 0 real life examples like you stated.

It doesn't matter, this discussion is futile. When I said you cannot escape your genetic destiny, I never denied you COULD improve height. We know height can be significantly improved via high dose GH.

Not currently possible in a healthy manner. Mine would be assuming you aimed for about 8%-10% lower as even if you overshoot it, it's still in a decent range. That's the difference, anyone could come here and say "Just take 10,000 mg of mk-677! It will make you taller as gigantism does that!" This

I don't exactly get what you mean by escaping your genetic destiny either. Fixing or improving anything with height alone makes you escape your genetic destiny. Completely different than looksmaxxing before that argument is brought up. Also, technology has gotten more advanced. AI chips will fix this as I spoke about before. Genetic companies are also getting more advanced, children will get more ideal genetics vs their parents soon. I estimate height will drastically go up due to this alone.

 

[lnceIs]

You can easily get around subpar genetics for height.. Getting to 7' tall will be easily available in the future 2 generations.. AI chips alone could send pulses to the pituitary gland & secrete pulses. It would also tell you a rough estimate of how everything is so you know when to stop the hypertrophy/enlargement of the organs.

Going past that, nothing of us is optimized, so why can't we go around it? No one is going to try the stacks I recommend on children so obviously it's a theory. The theories are just rooted in the data we have on teenagers/extremes/data collected on genes/etc.

There is plenty for your genetics.


Not really, it's why stem cell therapy is being experimented on & why it seems so promising. The more T4/T3 you have, the faster it turns into bone. Chondrocytes don't necessarily have to turn into bone at cycle 20 or 40 or 5, it can happen at the first step. If there's too much T4/T3, it causes it to happen at cycle 1 for example meaning the cartilage is inefficiently created. The entire point of my thread was to maximize this. Deficient T4/T3 also causes worse igf-1 and GH efficiency along with other issues making it need a small decrease.

The burger making/selling example I gave was very surface level as most users would not understand the nuances, hence why this may sound contradictory but is not. I could go in depth if needed.


2-3 inches is a large amount.. This would be very useful for people 5'6-5'8 genetically which is about 21% of men. Only 16% of men would not have as large of a use case. This is assuming they don't fraud with shoes either which would then increase the percentage even more. The proof is rooted in the real life examples I gave, this is how trials for everything start, off a hypothesis. The other threads you've read are nothing like mine and you know it. They are purely speculation with 0 real life examples like you stated.


Not currently possible in a healthy manner. Mine would be assuming you aimed for about 8%-10% lower as even if you overshoot it, it's still in a decent range. That's the difference, anyone could come here and say "Just take 10,000 mg of mk-677! It will make you taller as gigantism does that!" This

I don't exactly get what you mean by escaping your genetic destiny either. Fixing or improving anything with height alone makes you escape your genetic destiny. Completely different than looksmaxxing before that argument is brought up. Also, technology has gotten more advanced. AI chips will fix this as I spoke about before. Genetic companies are also getting more advanced, children will get more ideal genetics vs their parents soon. I estimate height will drastically go up due to this alone.

All of this will be available to those with better genetics, btw. The 5'6 Indians won't make use of this.

The elite will remain the elite. It's your obligation to secure your place, or LDAR.

 

[topology]

All of this will be available to those with better genetics, btw. The 5'6 Indians won't make use of this.

Sure, but you can't complain if you're not doing everything in your power to improve your situation. Almost every manlet here could get the money and time to get LLS if they simply tried to get money online.

The elite will remain the elite. It's your obligation to secure your place, or LDAR.

People here LDAR which is the issue like I stated above.

 

[lnceIs]

Sure, but you can't complain if you're not doing everything in your power to improve your situation. Almost every manlet here could get the money and time to get LLS if they simply tried to get money online.

My height is not a problem whatsoever. Sure, I would rather be a few inches taller, but it's not even in my top 10 attributes I'd seek to improve. I am 5'10 for reference.

 

[topology]

My height is not a problem whatsoever. Sure, I would rather be a few inches taller, but it's not even in my top 10 attributes I'd seek to improve. I am 5'10 for reference.

That was my basis for when I said 2-3 inches-- via my method --and frauding can get to normalized levels.

 

[vampi]

@topology
correct me if im wrong

but do you say to theoretically take exactly as much thyroid support as you need (practicly speaking a little less then you need)

Or to actually (from ur example) basicly kill the salesperson

bc you mentioned that only exces thyroid hormones helps shorten the time ur cells replicate in

Excess thyroid hormone accelerates growth plate ossification and closes the window faster,

Ur title is kinda irritating