retard
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Thread doesnt really have one singular purpose, just some general info on the subject
First off there are two ways to expand the maxilla:
Expansion via bone remodeling
This is done by following Wolff's law, applying a constant force to the palate (mewing) will apply an outward pressure on the palate causing expansion, bone remodelling can take place at any age, it is just slower the older you can get. It is common knowledge that tooth-borne palate expanders work on adults, just slower and since bone-borne appliance do not split the mid-palatal suture you can conclude that bone remodeling changes must be responsible
We know that bone is malleable from things like bone smashing and again palatal expansion, and degeneracy of bone structure from muscular atrophies (steven hawking as an example) which further validates that you can expand the maxilla at any age, given you are willing to put in the work by simple things like tongue posture
Expansion via sutural growth
Sutural growth is where the most drastic expansion changes come from, this is done by stimulating new bone growth at the midpalatal suture (the same premise applies to the circummaxillary sutures for achieving forward growth). While the midpalatal suture never fuses until very late in life, it hardens to a considerable extent making growth very slow the older you get, since the suture never fuses you can achieve growth at any up until you are around 80, the majority of the changes would be extremely minute if you are trying to get results with small forces like mewing, it can be successfully opened using a maxillary expander (mse, sarpe, etc) and you can get very good changes given it is successfully opened.
Any mewing changes that take place would probably be around 85% bone remodelling changes and 15% sutural growth (this is just a guess, there is really no way to know for sure.) https://looksmax.org/threads/ending...ll-literally-everyone-gtfo-in-here-now.77338/ This thread (apart from Ead) demonstrates maxillary expansion via remodelling, the greater the number change the greater the change, notice how insane changes are possible via remodelling given you are willing to put in the work and time, however for quick results sutural splitting/growth is certainly the way to go as Ead achieved greater changes in a fraction of the time than alot of other people who got results primarily from remodelling, then again this can only be done from a maxillary expander
An analogy to differentiate the two:
Since we know bone is malleable, we can compare it to something like plato (obv bone is much harder but the properties of it are similar none the less)
Imagine you have a sheet of plato layed out on a table, this will represent your maxilla now you put your hand ontop of the plato and smush it, this will represent your tongue. As you push down the plato flattens and expands, this is essentially just a sped up version of what expansion via remodelling will be like by mewing
Next imagine you take a knife and slice the middle of the plato (mse splitting the mid palatal suture) and then you push the plato apart, this is mimicking the expansion of the maxilla by sutural expansion/growth
In both scenarios if you laid some object on the plato to simulate the teeth, they would move apart from each other as well representing palatal expansion
Can tooth-borne palatal expanders widen the maxilla?
Yes, when you use a palatal expander that pushes on the teeth, the teeth will act as a medium and transfer the force to the maxillary bone its self and emulate faster remodelling (still not enough force to cause significant sutural growth) This is similar to the concept in facepulling, in orthodontics facepullers are latched onto the back of the teeth and pulled forward which causes both dentoalveolar changes, and some changes to the skeletal structure of the maxilla itsself, this is the same exact concept with a palatal expander but in a different direction (laterally) and on a different suture. Imagine you have a stake (teeth) in the ground and you push it, while you arent applying a force directly to the ground (maxilla), some of the force will be transferred to the ground and move it itsself.
https://epublications.marquette.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1271&context=theses_open (@Hades also reported an increase in byzygo width from expanding the palate) This study shows the facial changes resulting from palatal expansion, it states that the orbits widened (PFL increasing), the only way this is possible is through maxillary expansion as simply widening the arch of the teeth without any maxillary expansion would not even remotely result in a change in the orbits (which consist mainly of the top parts of the zygos and maxilla) indicating skeletal expansion from simple palatal expansion.
This references a thread I made a while ago and i claimed mewing can increase PFL https://looksmax.org/threads/holy-f...ncreases-pfl-literally-everyone-gtfihn.85505/ this study further backs it up that mewing can induce maxilla widening (given you are willing to put in the work)
The fact that tooth-borne palatal expanders can increase maxilla width is proof mewing will work at any age, as both induce changes by the same exact mechanism of bone remodelling, just palatal expanders apply larger amounts of force (which results in faster expansion)
Should i get a palatal expander?
While mewing and palatal expanders both cause expansion via remodelling, expanders will cause much quicker changes, however you can only expand the upper palate so much, and the lower arch will not meet it. If you have any plans of getting MSE, do not get a palatal expander, it will limit the actual primarily skeletal changes MSE will give as your palate can only physically get so wide. However if your upper ridge is narrower than the lower, and you have no intentions on getting MSE it is a great looksmax that will be basically a yard sale knock off version of MSE. Mewing will accomplish the exact same results just over a much longer time scale, and with mewing it is more likely that the lower arch will also adapt and widen to meet the upper arch.
How will widening the maxilla affect my facial aesthetics?
Widening the maxilla manifests in many different ways:
Increase in bizygomatic width (leads to an increase in FWHR)
Increase in lip width
Increase in nose base width
Increase in IPD
Increase in PFL
Wide palate (big halo irl, slept on in PSL imo)
TLDR: Maxilla expansion is possible through 2 different ways, one of them being possible at any age, just slower, palate expanders result in skeletal expansion to the maxilla itsself, not just expansion to the dental arch, mewing will certainly give results if you are willing to put in the time and effort, for faster/greater results you must use the other way which is inducing a sutural growth, however this is only possible through maxillary expanders like MSE and SARPE
First off there are two ways to expand the maxilla:
Expansion via bone remodeling
This is done by following Wolff's law, applying a constant force to the palate (mewing) will apply an outward pressure on the palate causing expansion, bone remodelling can take place at any age, it is just slower the older you can get. It is common knowledge that tooth-borne palate expanders work on adults, just slower and since bone-borne appliance do not split the mid-palatal suture you can conclude that bone remodeling changes must be responsible
We know that bone is malleable from things like bone smashing and again palatal expansion, and degeneracy of bone structure from muscular atrophies (steven hawking as an example) which further validates that you can expand the maxilla at any age, given you are willing to put in the work by simple things like tongue posture
Expansion via sutural growth
Sutural growth is where the most drastic expansion changes come from, this is done by stimulating new bone growth at the midpalatal suture (the same premise applies to the circummaxillary sutures for achieving forward growth). While the midpalatal suture never fuses until very late in life, it hardens to a considerable extent making growth very slow the older you get, since the suture never fuses you can achieve growth at any up until you are around 80, the majority of the changes would be extremely minute if you are trying to get results with small forces like mewing, it can be successfully opened using a maxillary expander (mse, sarpe, etc) and you can get very good changes given it is successfully opened.
Any mewing changes that take place would probably be around 85% bone remodelling changes and 15% sutural growth (this is just a guess, there is really no way to know for sure.) https://looksmax.org/threads/ending...ll-literally-everyone-gtfo-in-here-now.77338/ This thread (apart from Ead) demonstrates maxillary expansion via remodelling, the greater the number change the greater the change, notice how insane changes are possible via remodelling given you are willing to put in the work and time, however for quick results sutural splitting/growth is certainly the way to go as Ead achieved greater changes in a fraction of the time than alot of other people who got results primarily from remodelling, then again this can only be done from a maxillary expander
An analogy to differentiate the two:
Since we know bone is malleable, we can compare it to something like plato (obv bone is much harder but the properties of it are similar none the less)
Imagine you have a sheet of plato layed out on a table, this will represent your maxilla now you put your hand ontop of the plato and smush it, this will represent your tongue. As you push down the plato flattens and expands, this is essentially just a sped up version of what expansion via remodelling will be like by mewing
Next imagine you take a knife and slice the middle of the plato (mse splitting the mid palatal suture) and then you push the plato apart, this is mimicking the expansion of the maxilla by sutural expansion/growth
In both scenarios if you laid some object on the plato to simulate the teeth, they would move apart from each other as well representing palatal expansion
Can tooth-borne palatal expanders widen the maxilla?
Yes, when you use a palatal expander that pushes on the teeth, the teeth will act as a medium and transfer the force to the maxillary bone its self and emulate faster remodelling (still not enough force to cause significant sutural growth) This is similar to the concept in facepulling, in orthodontics facepullers are latched onto the back of the teeth and pulled forward which causes both dentoalveolar changes, and some changes to the skeletal structure of the maxilla itsself, this is the same exact concept with a palatal expander but in a different direction (laterally) and on a different suture. Imagine you have a stake (teeth) in the ground and you push it, while you arent applying a force directly to the ground (maxilla), some of the force will be transferred to the ground and move it itsself.
https://epublications.marquette.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1271&context=theses_open (@Hades also reported an increase in byzygo width from expanding the palate) This study shows the facial changes resulting from palatal expansion, it states that the orbits widened (PFL increasing), the only way this is possible is through maxillary expansion as simply widening the arch of the teeth without any maxillary expansion would not even remotely result in a change in the orbits (which consist mainly of the top parts of the zygos and maxilla) indicating skeletal expansion from simple palatal expansion.
This references a thread I made a while ago and i claimed mewing can increase PFL https://looksmax.org/threads/holy-f...ncreases-pfl-literally-everyone-gtfihn.85505/ this study further backs it up that mewing can induce maxilla widening (given you are willing to put in the work)
The fact that tooth-borne palatal expanders can increase maxilla width is proof mewing will work at any age, as both induce changes by the same exact mechanism of bone remodelling, just palatal expanders apply larger amounts of force (which results in faster expansion)
Should i get a palatal expander?
While mewing and palatal expanders both cause expansion via remodelling, expanders will cause much quicker changes, however you can only expand the upper palate so much, and the lower arch will not meet it. If you have any plans of getting MSE, do not get a palatal expander, it will limit the actual primarily skeletal changes MSE will give as your palate can only physically get so wide. However if your upper ridge is narrower than the lower, and you have no intentions on getting MSE it is a great looksmax that will be basically a yard sale knock off version of MSE. Mewing will accomplish the exact same results just over a much longer time scale, and with mewing it is more likely that the lower arch will also adapt and widen to meet the upper arch.
How will widening the maxilla affect my facial aesthetics?
Widening the maxilla manifests in many different ways:
Increase in bizygomatic width (leads to an increase in FWHR)
Increase in lip width
Increase in nose base width
Increase in IPD
Increase in PFL
Wide palate (big halo irl, slept on in PSL imo)
TLDR: Maxilla expansion is possible through 2 different ways, one of them being possible at any age, just slower, palate expanders result in skeletal expansion to the maxilla itsself, not just expansion to the dental arch, mewing will certainly give results if you are willing to put in the time and effort, for faster/greater results you must use the other way which is inducing a sutural growth, however this is only possible through maxillary expanders like MSE and SARPE
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