Message of God on success

[Deleted member 16384]

 

[Deleted member 15539]

thank you. i bought crypto after hearing this and made 3 Million Bucks. buy me course t ofind out how you can make money too.

 

[Deleted member 16384]

thank you. i bought crypto after hearing this and made 3 Million Bucks. buy me course t ofind out how you can make money too.

Your crypto and 3 million bucks won't help you once you are dead. Sound belief in God and good deeds will only matter in the hereafter

Delude yourself for 80 years, say 100 years if you happen to have a long life. If you die without faith and good deeds, you will face eternal regret and unending torment

 

[Harold O'brien]

If God works in mysterious ways, how do you know religious texts aren't tricks?

 

[Deleted member 16384]

If God works in mysterious ways, how do you know religious texts aren't tricks?

Don't let the world deceive you



This should convince anyone with a sound heart

 

[Salludon]

God works in mysterious ways

This is a phrase only Christians use when they get stuck and find no way out for explaining the trinity.

I don’t think this phrase has ever been used to explain Quran because there are NO contradictions in it.

 

[Harold O'brien]

This is a phrase only Christians use when they get stuck and find no way out for explaining the trinity.

I don’t think this phrase has ever been used to explain Quran because there are NO contradictions in it.

Pretty sure there is

That phrase is used when people point out that God/Allah/whatever is a cunt who treats humanity like shit despite claiming to love them and being omnipotent + omniscient

 

[Salludon]

Pretty sure there is

Tell me some

 

[Harold O'brien]

Tell me some

Just look up Qur'an contradictions. No book that long written in that time period is going to be contradiction free

You didn't address my other point either

 

[Salludon]

Just look up Qur'an contradictions.

Then you can also just look up those “contradictions” getting debunked.

No book that long written in that time period is going to be contradiction free

We believe it is. Wouldn’t really be the word of God if it had contradictions, would it?

That phrase is used when people point out that God/Allah/whatever is a cunt who treats humanity like shit despite claiming to love them and being omnipotent + omniscient

Evil exists in the world b/c free will exists. Hasn’t the problem with evil been addressed like a thousand times?

The answer is very simple. It isn’t Allah doing evil, or allowing evil to be done. Humans have been given free will, and what we do with that free will is our responsibility. We create wars, we create famine, we create oppression. If Allah did not allow that, then we wouldn’t have free will. Don’t blame God for humanity’s stupidity.

 

[BrownBoy]

how about we leave this sub forum for what it is meant for?

 

[Harold O'brien]

Then you can also just look up those “contradictions” getting debunked.



We believe it is. Wouldn’t really be the word of God if it had contradictions, would it?



Evil exists in the world b/c free will exists. Hasn’t the problem with evil been addressed like a thousand times?

The answer is very simple. It isn’t Allah doing evil, or allowing evil to be done. Humans have been given free will, and what we do with that free will is our responsibility. We create wars, we create famine, we create oppression. If Allah did not allow that, then we wouldn’t have free will. Don’t blame God for humanity’s stupidity.

And that debunking would just be some handwaving shit like the first one is correct or it doesn't really matter. but the contradictions are still there .

So natural disasters are humans fault? I'm sure the millions that have died due to hurricanes, earthquakes etc would disagree that it was humanities free will that fucked them. You are also not allowing that behaviour is dependent on genetics. Why did God create psychopaths for example? He could still have free will without them

 

[Harold O'brien]

how about we leave this sub forum for what it is meant for?

Nah

 

[Deleted member 16384]

To the Mod who moved this to off topic

If guidance is not written in your destiny, May God break your back and destroy you in both worlds

 

[Salludon]

And that debunking would just be some handwaving shit like the first one is correct or it doesn't really matter. but the contradictions are still there .

Funny how you just assumed that it would be “some handwaving” without even learning about it. Seems like you only care about finding material that further validates your biases.

So natural disasters are humans fault? I'm sure the millions that have died due to hurricanes, earthquakes etc would disagree that it was humanities free will that fucked them.

I don't view natural disasters as evil. They're simply a function of how the world works.


The only legitimate answers to "why did God X" for all values of X are one of the two following:

1) That's not something that can be answered, or
2) The answer to that is within this specific revelatory source that you believe.

There can't be another answer to such a question. Either the answer is revealed or it is unknown. We have no other way to answer such questions.

So, unless there's a revelatory source you're willing to accept as an answer, I don't think that this conversation can really go anywhere.

From Islamic perspective, natural disasters/diseases are a trial from God. The more you were tried in this world, the greater your reward would be in the afterlife. There’s a hadith about this:

Jabir narrated that the Prophet (s.a.w) said:

"On the Day of Judgement, when the people who were tried (in this world) are given their rewards, the people who were pardoned (in life), will wish that their skins had been cut off with scissors while they were in the world."

 

[Deleted member 16582]

From Islamic perspective, natural disasters/diseases are a trial from God. The more you were tried in this world, the greater your reward would be in the afterlife. There’s a hadith about this:

Jabir narrated that the Prophet (s.a.w) said:

"On the Day of Judgement, when the people who were tried (in this world) are given their rewards, the people who were pardoned (in life), will wish that their skins had been cut off with scissors while they were in the world."

And such is the trial and test of ugly, deformed people. Yet these incels waste their souls trying to attain the sin that they are unable to reach, but whether they succeed in this fornication or not, in the hearts it will be no difference.
In the same way that even if a person prays it would not be worth much if they are the same person with the heart that would leave a prayer if it was for the sake of money. But inshAllah to maintain prayer regardless, perhaps one day they will gain an understanding or level of faith so that their heart becomes purified and such things would not be in their heart.

 

[ThatDjangoWalk]

Then you can also just look up those “contradictions” getting debunked.



We believe it is. Wouldn’t really be the word of God if it had contradictions, would it?



Evil exists in the world b/c free will exists. Hasn’t the problem with evil been addressed like a thousand times?

The answer is very simple. It isn’t Allah doing evil, or allowing evil to be done. Humans have been given free will, and what we do with that free will is our responsibility. We create wars, we create famine, we create oppression. If Allah did not allow that, then we wouldn’t have free will. Don’t blame God for humanity’s stupidity.

The Problem of Evil completely relies on the perspective of the person in almost every sense. It is just a reflection of arrogance and childish behaviour.

First, an atheist in general doesn't even believe in Objective Morality, therefore it doesn't matter anyways what he defines as "evil" or "good", any other person can define it in other manner and it would be on the same grounds. For example, for a serial killer, good is to kill, while for a non serial killer, good is to not kill. The atheist would never have an Objective source to rely on and to prove that the serial killer is wrong.

Look at the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, for an Israeli, killing Palestinian children is good because it is considered a cleansing of land, while for the Palestinian, it is bad because they are their offspring among other reasons. And anyone could give thousands of examples of these differences in regards to morality on the actual world.

If i believe that there is no afterlife, then i guess it is normal that when i see a child dying, i would think that God is bad. What they are doing is to superimposse their position in you (i.e That there is no afterlife). In Islam, for example, when a kid dies he goes to Paradise (Can't say the same for other faiths).

It is narrated that The Prophet Muhammad (alayhi a salat wa salam) said according to a narration: "The Prophet is in paradise, the martyrs are in paradise, the children who die are in paradise, and the infant buried alive is in paradise" (The last one refers to an ancient arabic practice against female infants which the Prophet condemned and prohibited).

On a different narration it is reported that he said: “By the One in whose hand is my soul, the miscarried fetus will carry his mother by his umbilical cord into Paradise, if she was seeking its reward.”

I made a comment on this some time ago, a relatively new Muslim Philosopher spoke about it.

God has the picture and we just have a pixel. Understanding this facilitates spiritual and intellectual tranquillity because the believer understands that ultimately all that occurs in the world is in line with a superior Divine wisdom that is based on superior Divine goodness. Refusing to accept this is actually where the atheist falls into the quagmire of arrogance, egocentrism and ultimately despair. He has failed the test, and his misunderstanding of God makes him forget who God is, and dismisses completely the fact of Divine wisdom.

Ibn Taymiyya summarises this point as well: “If God—exalted is He—is Creator of everything, He creates good and evil on account of the wise purpose that He has in that by virtue of which His action is good and perfect.”

Under atheism, evil has no purpose. It is one of the blind forces in the world that indiscriminately chooses its prey. Those who are victims of suffering and evil have no emotional and rational perspectives to help alleviate their suffering or put their experiences into context. Someone could have suffered all their lives and just ended up in the grave. All of their suffering, sacrifice and pain would have absolutely no meaning whatsoever. Evil is viewed to occur due to prior physical processes, and those who experience evil have no recourse. They cannot attribute any type of will to it, whether human or Divine, because everything is just reduced to blind, random and non-rational physical occurrences. Thus, the logical implications of atheism are quite depressing.

The Islamic tradition has a fountain of concepts, principles and ideas that facilitate the believer’s journey in life. The Prophet Muhammad ﷺ empowered the believers with hope and patience. All of the suffering that we face is a means of spiritual purification, thereby facilitating paradise in which we will forget every suffering that we ever experienced:

“No calamity befalls a Muslim but that God expiates some of his sins because of it, even though it were the prick he receives from a thorn.”

“Amazing is the affair of the believer, verily all of his affair is good, and this is for no one except the believer. If something of good/happiness befalls him he is grateful and that is good for him. If something of harm befalls him he is patient and that is good for him.”

Even natural disasters and fatal illnesses are seen through the eyes of hope, mercy and forgiveness. The Islamic perspective on illness is that it is a form of purification, which facilitates eternal bliss in paradise for the sick.

Therefore God would still be Ultimately Good

Anyways, Firas Zahabi has a great video on this, very interesting

 

[Harold O'brien]

Funny how you just assumed that it would be “some handwaving” without even learning about it. Seems like you only care about finding material that further validates your biases.

we're discussing beliefs here - it's biases all the way

but I'm correct regardless. there is literally an islamic term for "resolving" these contradictions: Naskh. And it's done in a pretty handwavy way - just ignore the previous ones (ie your perfect omniscient creator was wrong at some point in time)

I don't view natural disasters as evil. They're simply a function of how the world works.

damn. that's fucked up bro

The only legitimate answers to "why did God X" for all values of X are one of the two following:

1) That's not something that can be answered, or
2) The answer to that is within this specific revelatory source that you believe.

There can't be another answer to such a question. Either the answer is revealed or it is unknown. We have no other way to answer such questions.

So, unless there's a revelatory source you're willing to accept as an answer, I don't think that this conversation can really go anywhere.

From Islamic perspective, natural disasters/diseases are a trial from God. The more you were tried in this world, the greater your reward would be in the afterlife. There’s a hadith about this:

Jabir narrated that the Prophet (s.a.w) said:

"On the Day of Judgement, when the people who were tried (in this world) are given their rewards, the people who were pardoned (in life), will wish that their skins had been cut off with scissors while they were in the world."

1) is just equivalent to "God works in mysterious ways", which begs the question how do you know the Quran is not a trick?

2) ok - but if you concede that 1) is the answer to a least one question then you cannot trust this source material

I think it is impossible to be moral and believe in an Abrahamic religion. people who follow these religions

a) only do good because they fear eternal punishment and desire eternal reward
b) uphold the values of and glorify a being that regularly mistreats humanity, leaves them in the dark and in general acts like a tool, only because he has a position of power over them (it's not like there is a good reason to believe in his existence in the first place either)

 

[Salludon]

but I'm correct regardless. there is literally an islamic term for "resolving" these contradictions: Naskh. And it's done in a pretty handwavy way - just ignore the previous ones (ie your perfect omniscient creator was wrong at some point in time)

Lol I don’t think you know what ‘Naskh’ or abrogation means.

It is not error correction or a term for “resolving contradictions”.

Take this flimsy analogy that will help you understand my next point. We teach children that deoxygenated blood is actually blue. Or that electrons orbit spherically around the nucleus. Its not like you tell fifth graders about the true nature of the probability clouds of electrons. Newtonian theory of gravity is being taught everywhere in schools because its easier to understand when in reality its completely wrong, as proven by Einstein that gravity is not a force. We’re also taught that the Earth is round when in reality its not perfectly round but is an oblate spheroid, etc.

My point is people need to be taught certain things slowly. Societies today don't jump to drastically new ideals overnight and in the context of Quran we are talking about primitive, low iq bedouin people of 6th century.

An example of abrogation in Quran is the ruling on alcohol. In one verse Quran says don’t drink alcohol before coming to mosque and another verse in the Quran completely prohibits drinking alcohol.

There is no contradiction in this. You have to keep in mind Quran was revealed over the span of 23 years and different verses were revealed at different times and based on different situations. When the first verse was revealed Arabs were just starting to accept Islam, their faith wasn’t strong. Telling the people who used to bathe in alcohol to completely stop drinking it would have made them stray away from Islam so God first prohibited drinking it during prayer and after some years He completely prohibited it.

The truth is, no verses were abrogated. The Quran is as it is. Some verses were just meant for a limited time, but the others are valid.

1) is just equivalent to "God works in mysterious ways", which begs the question how do you know the Quran is not a trick?

2) ok - but if you concede that 1) is the answer to a least one question then you cannot trust this source material

I think it is impossible to be moral and believe in an Abrahamic religion. people who follow these religions

a) only do good because they fear eternal punishment and desire eternal reward
b) uphold the values of and glorify a being that regularly mistreats humanity, leaves them in the dark and in general acts like a tool, only because he has a position of power over them (it's not like there is a good reason to believe in his existence in the first place either)

I don’t think i need to reply to this after @ThatDjangoWalk post above.

 

[Harold O'brien]

Lol I don’t think you know what ‘Naskh’ or abrogation means.

It is not error correction or a term for “resolving contradictions”.

Take this flimsy analogy that will help you understand my next point. We teach children that deoxygenated blood is actually blue. Or that electrons orbit spherically around the nucleus. Its not like you tell fifth graders about the true nature of the probability clouds of electrons. Newtonian theory of gravity is being taught everywhere in schools because its easier to understand when in reality its completely wrong, as proven by Einstein that gravity is not a force. We’re also taught that the Earth is round when in reality its not perfectly round but is an oblate spheroid, etc.

My point is people need to be taught certain things slowly. Societies today don't jump to drastically new ideals overnight and in the context of Quran we are talking about primitive, low iq bedouin people of 6th century.

An example of abrogation in Quran is the ruling on alcohol. In one verse Quran says don’t drink alcohol before coming to mosque and another verse in the Quran completely prohibits drinking alcohol.

There is no contradiction in this. You have to keep in mind Quran was revealed over the span of 23 years and different verses were revealed at different times and based on different situations. When the first verse was revealed Arabs were just starting to accept Islam, their faith wasn’t strong. Telling the people who used to bathe in alcohol to completely stop drinking it would have made them stray away from Islam so God first prohibited drinking it during prayer and after some years God completely prohibited it.

The truth is, no verses were abrogated. The Quran is as it is. Some verses were just meant for a limited time, but the others are valid.



I don’t think i need to reply to this after @ThatDjangoWalk’s post above.

massive cope

you're telling me an all powerful God has to convince people in baby steps? it's ludicrous

and those science analogies are horrible, science never claims to be infallible (unlike word of God). even the most modern models of phenomena are wrong, they are only models after all. just the most elegant and highest predicative power we have at the moment. but it makes perfect sense to teach younger children simpler models that they will actually be able to understand.

whereas, it doesn't make sense for an omnipotent + omniscient being to contradict himself in order to get followers

 

[Salludon]

you're telling me an all powerful God has to convince people in baby steps? it's ludicrous

What would have been a better way according to you?

whereas, it doesn't make sense for an omnipotent + omniscient being to contradict himself in order to get followers

Extremely ignorant of you to still call it a contradiction. Reminds me of those atheists that debate muslims and bring up arguments like “If islam is true why did Prophet Muhammad married a 9yo?”. Makes me laugh ngl.

 

[ThatDjangoWalk]

massive cope

you're telling me an all powerful God has to convince people in steps? it's ludicrous

Why not? Convince me why He is not All Powerful because of that. You could say "Well, He could just change their wills". Id answer "How He wanting to not just change their wills and set to us an example makes Him less powerful?"

We take the prohibition of alcohol in Islam as an example to prohibit things gradually. It has proven to be the most effective way to prohibit the drug of alcohol in human history, it literally made a people who almost worshipped alcohol to be, in a matter of 23 years the society which has consumed it the lest during the last 1400 years, showcasing a clear superiority to any other intent to decrease alcohol consumption since it's beggining.

Meanwhile you have other examples of trying to abolish alcohol, look at the prohibition laws in the USA and how it went, mafias everywhere and all for nothing. We take it as a proof for the Knowledge of our Creator and how His rulings and commamdments in regards to alcohol have been the most effective in erradicating that drug on the entirety of human history rather than some sort of weakness.

and those science analogies are horrible, science never claims to be infallible (unlike word of God). even the most modern models of phenomena are wrong, they are only models after all. just the most elegant and highest predicative power we have at the moment.

I agree, that's why i don't take science as the model standard to follow on everything, i think there are matters on the current paradigm of science that are agreed on my religion and others that contradict it, but my belief is that if Science was to end tomorrow with a 100% accuracy, then it would be in conjuction with our religion.

but it makes perfect sense to teach younger children simpler models that they will actually be able to understand.

Good, i agree. But teach them the entire history, not only one part. Nowadays people just don't know that science changes constantly, and i don't understand why they don't teach that in school. God claims to be All Knowing so that's why religion in general teaches that everything of it must be taken as the truth.

Science on the other hand never claims to be All Knowing, it is just a method which was perfectioned by Ibn Al Haytham based on Islamic Scripture. Scientists should never claim that "X" is definetly wrong because science says so. If philosophy of science teaches anything, is that even the most solid of theories can be wrong and take a 180 degrees turn, just take a look at Quantum physics. Then why they don't teach that at school? Why they don't teach the biases of studies and the human influence on science? I think it should be basic knowledge for everyone to uphold

whereas, it doesn't make sense for an omnipotent + omniscient being to contradict himself in order to get followers

Contradict why? He decided willingly to give different rules to different people on different times, and set the end of the life of the Prophet (alayhi a salat wa salam) as the definitive standard rule for the rest of history. I don't see how He contradicts Himself by that.

 

[Looksmax Refugee]

Muslims should stop preaching Islam on this website. This just isn't the place to be spreading religion. The majority of people are here to fufill a degenerate wish of slaying. People here don't care for religion. Preaching to this audience does more harm than good. It's a very bad look to have Islamic threads everyday with the same few muslims supporting them, and the rest arguing against them. What does that accomplish?