Microneedling is bad

[Emerson]

I recently started looking into micro-needling to grow denser facial hair. The praise for it is substantial and everyone seems to recommend it.

Everywhere I look, the consensus seems to be that micro-needling is the best thing for hair growth with no negative side effects as microneedling is good for the skin unless used improperly.

But then I came across this...

"It is also paramount to understand that any collagen made from dermarolling is a stress response by the body, and collagen made as a result of a stress response is not healthy. When you dermaroll, you expose your body to a stressor which destroys collagen, and the body quickly tries to replace the collagen lost from dermarolling by making more collagen. Collagen made from exposure to a stressor may give the appearance of plumper skin, but this is an insidious illusion. What you are really experiencing is inflammation and scar tissue formation, all of which causes aging, and is often irreversible.

Furthermore, any plumping sensation that may occur is an illusion, this is merely your body creating inflammation, causing the area to swell. When inflammation occurs, cells begin to break down, and collagen with it. This accelerates the aging process."

Read full article here

This article goes over several other reasons why micro-needling is harmful as well. Can someone please validate/refute this article's claims? I am not well versed enough on the subject to fully know for sure...

(The article does try to sell shit at the end which always makes me question their intentions.)

 

[SendMePicsToRate]

I recently started looking into micro-needling to grow denser facial hair. The praise for it is substantial and everyone seems to recommend it.

Everywhere I look, the consensus seems to be that micro-needling is the best thing for hair growth with no negative side effects as microneedling is good for the skin unless used improperly.

But then I came across this...



This article goes over several other reasons why micro-needling is harmful as well. Can someone please validate/refute this article's claims? I am not well versed enough on the subject to fully know for sure...

(The article does try to sell shit at the end which always makes me question their intentions.)

See it is more so focusing on the effects of collagen production so it is more so refuting its useful ness for facial use not on your scalp.

It should be safe assuming you are using it to combat hair loss but not to maintain youthful skin but I would like to see what others think.

 

[DesperadoRatado]

Microneedling tears through the epidermis – the top layer of the skin – creating tiny puncture marks which play havoc with your skin’s natural defence mechanisms, which have to work hard to repair these tiny micro-tears through collagen induction. This causes a whole host of skin conditions.

You must understand the concept, ‘needling promotes skin collagen’. Because you’re temporarily injuring your skin, the tightening effect is plump, swollen skin.

It does not create a glowing complexion: That ‘lit-from-within’ glow is a result of the inflammation it triggers, and as I believe inflammation is at the source of premature ageing, it is a big no-no in my book.


ive had a long ass debate with another user about it. I think its bunch of bullshit with little to no actual scientific support

 

[Deleted member 10185]

Its only bad if you do it by yourself..

 

[Deleted member 13137]

I've had several microneedling treatments including Infini(microneedling with radio frequency) to deal with acne scars. It was basically a miracle and would've roped otherwise. HUGE reduction. I think it can be a useful tool for very specific problems such as acne scars are balding, but I agree. Needling for "collagen gains" is retarded, especially if done at home.

 

[OOGABOOGA]

I've had several microneedling treatments including Infini(microneedling with radio frequency) to deal with acne scars. It was basically a miracle and would've roped otherwise. HUGE reduction. I think it can be a useful tool for very specific problems such as acne scars are balding, but I agree. Needling for "collagen gains" is retarded, especially if done at home.

Great to hear! I’m scheduled for needling next week to get rid of my acne scars. I’m planning to get a pen for at home too but i guess I’ll stick to my scalp with that

 

[Emerson]

It should be safe assuming you are using it to combat hair loss but not to maintain youthful skin but I would like to see what others think.

Agreed. I see 100% no negative drawbacks to using it on the scalp.

Personally, my aim is to achieve denser facial hair stubble. And I would prefer to do this without any drawbacks cause it's not that important.

 

[SendMePicsToRate]

Agreed. I see 100% no negative drawbacks to using it on the scalp.

Personally, my aim is to achieve denser facial hair stubble. And I would prefer to do this without any drawbacks cause it's not that important.

Sadly there isn't really a way of obtaining better stubble without cucking collagen honestly

 

[EverythingMattersCel]

Great to hear! I’m scheduled for needling next week to get rid of my acne scars. I’m planning to get a pen for at home too but i guess I’ll stick to my scalp with that

Idk how deep your scars are but I got great improvements from 2 needling sessions with the Derminator at home. Even David Lim (the renowned acne derm), said there is no difference in the needle quality used in clinic vs at home.

Take a look at this post from another thread on microneedling:

It has worked for my acne scars.

I am going by this study:

Combination Therapy in the Management of Atrophic Acne Scars

Atrophic acne scars are difficult to treat. The demand for less invasive but highly effective treatment for scars is growing.To assess the efficacy of combination therapy using subcision, microneedling and 15% trichloroacetic acid (TCA) peel in the management ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Smother on a load of 0.05% - 0.1% tret immediately after treatment, wash off 30 min later. Apply consistently daily.

I used 1.5mm - 2mm needles...

The Redditors think I'm crazy for doing this but I got a big improvement after just 2 treatments with the Derminator...

 

[Emerson]

It does not create a glowing complexion: That ‘lit-from-within’ glow is a result of the inflammation it triggers, and as I believe inflammation is at the source of premature ageing, it is a big no-no in my book.


ive had a long ass debate with another user about it. I think its bunch of bullshit with little to no actual scientific support

The article makes similar points. Makes sense. Do you believe it should never be done? The article goes as far as saying that even just micro-needling one time is detrimental for the long-run.

 

[TheCowFucker]

The article makes similar points. Makes sense. Do you believe it should never be done? The article goes as far as saying that even just micro-needling one time is detrimental for the long-run.

What is a good interval for these sessions?

 

[workiskey]

What about not doing it everywhere but only on the acne scares and the hairline ?

 

[Emerson]

I've had several microneedling treatments including Infini(microneedling with radio frequency) to deal with acne scars. It was basically a miracle and would've roped otherwise. HUGE reduction. I think it can be a useful tool for very specific problems such as acne scars are balding, but I agree. Needling for "collagen gains" is retarded, especially if done at home.

Idk how deep your scars are but I got great improvements from 2 needling sessions with the Derminator at home. Even David Lim (the renowned acne derm), said there is no difference in the needle quality used in clinic vs at home.

Take a look at this post from another thread on microneedling:

Did you guys notice any swelling? Apparently, the problem is micro-needling looks good and solves skincare issues in the short-term but haunts you in the long term. (according to the article.)

"If you are young and still making collagen (usually up to menopause in women and mid 40s for men), this is not a free pass to destroy the collagen you have because your body will make more. If your body has to make collagen because collagen was broken down and destroyed, you are going to deplete your body's ability to make collagen sooner, hence accelerating the aging process. The reason why collagen synthesis will cease sooner in those who dermaroll is because you desensitize the receptors responsible for the signaling of collagen synthesis, you destroy the cells that make collagen and you are destroy the scaffolding for which collagen can anchor. The result is thin, sagging skin at an early age."

 

[OOGABOOGA]

Idk how deep your scars are but I got great improvements from 2 needling sessions with the Derminator at home. Even David Lim (the renowned acne derm), said there is no difference in the needle quality used in clinic vs at home.

Take a look at this post from another thread on microneedling:

My scars aren’t that bad. Not bad enough for much of a skin failo, but bad enough that they prevent skin halo. The derm said she thinks one needling session and maybe one laser session will be adequate. If not I’ll do laser again maybe in the winter.

 

[EverythingMattersCel]

Did you guys notice any swelling? Apparently, the problem is micro-needling looks good and solves skincare issues in the short-term but haunts you in the long term. (according to the article.)

"If you are young and still making collagen (usually up to menopause in women and mid 40s for men), this is not a free pass to destroy the collagen you have because your body will make more. If your body has to make collagen because collagen was broken down and destroyed, you are going to deplete your body's ability to make collagen sooner, hence accelerating the aging process. The reason why collagen synthesis will cease sooner in those who dermaroll is because you desensitize the receptors responsible for the signaling of collagen synthesis, you destroy the cells that make collagen and you are destroy the scaffolding for which collagen can anchor. The result is thin, sagging skin at an early age."

I can't speak for the average guy but in my case the looksmin of acne scars overrides the need to have respectable collagen in old age. I'd rather have smooth skin in my 20s than look like a leather softball. If I leave it to my natural collagen production, the only thing that will change is that I will look like an aged leather softball in my 40s.

Also, has that article got any evidence backing it up? Scientific studies that it can be linked to? There are plenty of studies on the benefits of micro needling for collagen synthesis. I have a feeling that article might be shilling its shitty snake oil products so has an interest to spread lies.

Can you link the original article here?

 

[EverythingMattersCel]

My scars aren’t that bad. Not bad enough for much of a skin failo, but bad enough that they prevent skin halo. The derm said she thinks one needling session and maybe one laser session will be adequate. If not I’ll do laser again maybe in the winter.

Yh microneedling is good for shallow rolling and boxcars. Good luck...

 

[Emerson]

I can't speak for the average guy but in my case the looksmin of acne scars overrides the need to have respectable collagen in old age. I'd rather have smooth skin in my 20s than look like a leather softball. If I leave it to my natural collagen production, the only thing that will change is that I will look like an aged leather softball in my 40s.

Perhaps using chemicals peels to get rid of the scars is better?

Also, has that article got any evidence backing it up? Scientific studies that it can be linked to? There are plenty of studies on the benefits of micro needling for collagen synthesis. I have a feeling that article might be shilling its shitty snake oil products so has an interest to spread lies.

Can you link the original article here?

Yeah, the purpose of the article seems to be to refute those studies on the benefits of micro-needling. But he ends up selling shit at the end.

So although I feel the article is not lying, the expert is least overexaggerating things. (I think) That's why I'm looking for answers here.

Here's another link

 

[Deleted member 13137]

Great to hear! I’m scheduled for needling next week to get rid of my acne scars. I’m planning to get a pen for at home too but i guess I’ll stick to my scalp with that

lmk how it goes. gonna see most improvements 6 months after your treatments (im sure aesthetician already told you as much) although you'll probably see some improvement immediately after as well

 

[AsGoodAsItGets]

I recently started looking into micro-needling to grow denser facial hair. The praise for it is substantial and everyone seems to recommend it.

Everywhere I look, the consensus seems to be that micro-needling is the best thing for hair growth with no negative side effects as microneedling is good for the skin unless used improperly.

But then I came across this...



This article goes over several other reasons why micro-needling is harmful as well. Can someone please validate/refute this article's claims? I am not well versed enough on the subject to fully know for sure...

(The article does try to sell shit at the end which always makes me question their intentions.)

Hmm, is there a way to follow threads? Would like to see more opinions on this.

 

[dadfa]

For all of these studies there is always another study that says it is good. Very confusing

 

[randomvanish]

bullshit thread

 

[Hey dont talk to me]

bullshit thread

Why

 

[randomvanish]

Why

that company spreading bullshit about microneedling they even expand their threats like "might lead to cancer" jfl.

there is no scientific background to prove these bullshit claims.
microneedling is a wonderful tool and it's incredible cheap to apply.

 

[Emerson]

bullshit thread

that company spreading bullshit about microneedling they even expand their threats like "might lead to cancer" jfl.

there is no scientific background to prove these bullshit claims.
microneedling is a wonderful tool and it's incredible cheap to apply.

Ah. So you don't actually believe the thread is bullshit (which would be ludacris. All I do is post an article and ask for everyone's opinion on it,) you believe the article is.

As for your grievance with the article stating that microneedling may increase the risk of cancer- I would completely agree with you if the article were simply making a theory based on nothing, but this is not the case.

"there is no scientific background to prove these bullshit claims."

The article clearly cites a study on "The wound inflammatory response exacerbates growth of pre-neoplastic cells and progression to cancer". I recommend you look into it.

Listen... At the end of the day, I'm not actually here to rain on your parade... I just like to openly look at all sides of things.

 

[randomvanish]

"The wound inflammatory response exacerbates growth of pre-neoplastic cells and progression to cancer".

"There is a long-standing association between wound healing and cancer, with cancer often described as a "wound that does not heal". However, little is known about how wounding, such as following surgery, biopsy collection or ulceration, might impact on cancer progression. Here, we use a translucent zebrafish larval model of Ras(G12V)-driven neoplasia to image the interactions between inflammatory cells drawn to a wound, and to adjacent pre-neoplastic cells. We show that neutrophils are rapidly diverted from a wound to pre-neoplastic cells and these interactions lead to increased proliferation of the pre-neoplastic cells. One of the wound-inflammation-induced trophic signals is prostaglandin E2 (PGE2). In an adult model of chronic wounding in zebrafish, we show that repeated wounding with subsequent inflammation leads to a greater incidence of local melanoma formation. Our zebrafish studies led us to investigate the innate immune cell associations in ulcerated melanomas in human patients. We find a strong correlation between neutrophil presence at sites of melanoma ulceration and cell proliferation at these sites, which is associated with poor prognostic outcome."


Good luck with your zebrafish experiment bruh.

Also don't act sentimental just because i said "bs thread" which is.

 

[randomvanish]

that company trying so hard to spread fearmongering about microneedling, which is probably because of their dumb products

 

[PURE ARYAN GENETICS]

makes sense and I assumed this to be the case but still the best treatment for certain scars and balding. just make sure your needles are not shit

 

[Emerson]

"There is a long-standing association between wound healing and cancer, with cancer often described as a "wound that does not heal". However, little is known about how wounding, such as following surgery, biopsy collection or ulceration, might impact on cancer progression. Here, we use a translucent zebrafish larval model of Ras(G12V)-driven neoplasia to image the interactions between inflammatory cells drawn to a wound, and to adjacent pre-neoplastic cells. We show that neutrophils are rapidly diverted from a wound to pre-neoplastic cells and these interactions lead to increased proliferation of the pre-neoplastic cells. One of the wound-inflammation-induced trophic signals is prostaglandin E2 (PGE2). In an adult model of chronic wounding in zebrafish, we show that repeated wounding with subsequent inflammation leads to a greater incidence of local melanoma formation. Our zebrafish studies led us to investigate the innate immune cell associations in ulcerated melanomas in human patients. We find a strong correlation between neutrophil presence at sites of melanoma ulceration and cell proliferation at these sites, which is associated with poor prognostic outcome."


Good luck with your zebrafish experiment bruh.

Also don't act sentimental just because i said "bs thread" which is.

I'm not "acting sentimental". I simply noticed you were emotional and wanted to assure you that I am on your side. We are all just here to learn at the end of the day.

 

[Deleted member 14543]

Pretty sure thats the whole point for microneedling for facial hair. It creates micro damage in ur skin. Not too much though. And your body comes to heal the microdamages with more blood etc and in the process it activates dormant hair follicles or gives them the minerals to grow (i think but pretty sure)

 

[Hey dont talk to me]

Pretty sure thats the whole point for microneedling for facial hair. It creates micro damage in ur skin. Not too much though. And your body comes to heal the microdamages with more blood etc and in the process it activates dormant hair follicles or gives them the minerals to grow (i think but pretty sure)

Needling is safe right? For face

 

[Deleted member 14543]

Needling is safe right? For face

of course

 

[Lawton88]

Did you guys notice any swelling? Apparently, the problem is micro-needling looks good and solves skincare issues in the short-term but haunts you in the long term. (according to the article.)

"If you are young and still making collagen (usually up to menopause in women and mid 40s for men), this is not a free pass to destroy the collagen you have because your body will make more. If your body has to make collagen because collagen was broken down and destroyed, you are going to deplete your body's ability to make collagen sooner, hence accelerating the aging process. The reason why collagen synthesis will cease sooner in those who dermaroll is because you desensitize the receptors responsible for the signaling of collagen synthesis, you destroy the cells that make collagen and you are destroy the scaffolding for which collagen can anchor. The result is thin, sagging skin at an early age."

So is that saying no need to worry about your mid 40s because your body won't be producing the stuff hardly anyway? Might as well dermaroll to get more collagen at those ages?

 

[Spinc]

Wouldn't that also invalidate all laser treatments, chemical peels, and even tretinoin, since they work on the same principles of damaging the dermis to encourage more collagen production?

 

[Emerson]

Needling is safe right? For face

That's what seems to be unclear.

So is that saying no need to worry about your mid 40s because your body won't be producing the stuff hardly anyway? Might as well dermaroll to get more collagen at those ages?

Fair enough... And I totally feel like dermarolling is generally targeted towards older women in the first place... But then everyone saw all the "quick-fix" benefits and started using them on younger people for other things...

Wouldn't that also invalidate all laser treatments, chemical peels, and even tretinoin, since they work on the same principles of damaging the dermis to encourage more collagen production?

No, I believe the article is specifically warning against the effects that come from the inflammation and scar tissue formation caused by dermarolling.

 

[Hey dont talk to me]

That's what seems to be unclear.

Fair enough... And I totally feel like dermarolling is generally targeted towards older women in the first place... But then everyone saw all the "quick-fix" benefits and started using them on younger people for other things...

No, I believe the article is specifically warning against the effects that come from the inflammation and scar tissue formation caused by dermarolling.

Nigga shutt up i have acne scars..

 

[Emerson]

Nigga shutt up i have acne scars..

How dark are the scars? A series of hydrafacials might be all you need...

Another solution would be to get a chemical peel. Chem peels are very effective. The problem is they require a week of downtime (your face weel be peely for a full week). But you can just claim to have rona virus and hide away from everyone for a week if possible (if you don't wanna explain yourself).

But... At the end of the day, these are just long-term issues. It's likely that in another 10 years, when the issues start popping up, skincare will be so evolved that you will be able to fix the harm the dermarolling caused.

 

[Hey dont talk to me]

P

How dark are the scars? A series of hydrafacials might be all you need...

Another solution would be to get a chemical peel. Chem peels are very effective. The problem is they require a week of downtime (your face weel be peely for a full week). But you can just claim to have rona virus and hide away from everyone for a week if possible (if you don't wanna explain yourself).

But... At the end of the day, these are just long-term issues. It's likely that in another 10 years, when the issues start popping up, skincare will be so evolved that you will be able to fix the harm the dermarolling caused.

Peels wont do shit for my scars :/ they are deep

 

[crosshold]

who i do i believe, a greycel on an obscure forum about looks or the countless studies and skin professionals vouching for the benefits of microneedling

hmmmmmm

 

[Emerson]

who i do i believe, a greycel on an obscure forum about looks or the countless studies and skin professionals vouching for the benefits of microneedling

hmmmmmm

Indeed. Always criticize/look into both perspectives before forming a conclusion. But the majority side isn't always the correct side when it comes to science- History proves this time and time again.

The "countless studies" you are referring to are true in their conclusion. Dermarolling causes a stress response that results in a huge spike in collagen. The argument this article is making is basically on that stress response being unhealthy for the long term... And goes onto list the many reasons why.

Peels wont do shit for my scars :/ they are deep

I understand the situation. You should always use a cost/benefit analysis before you do something. The benefits outweigh the cost in this scenario IMO. Your younger years are the most important. If your acne scars are keeping you from mogging/accumulating status at this crucial time, you should 100% fix the issue as soon as you can. You should do it. But do it either professionally or with the Derminator if you want to mitigate micro-tearing (credit: MorePlatesMoreDates). The rollers are terrible for you...

 

[mogthemoggers]

that company trying so hard to spread fearmongering about microneedling, which is probably because of their dumb products

This, the article fags just want to sell their fucking products

 

[Lawton88]

A lot of articles claim middle age to older people will gain back collagen that will last 5 - 7 years by dermarolling for like 3 months.

 

[JawGuyFatFaceGuy]

I've had several microneedling treatments including Infini(microneedling with radio frequency) to deal with acne scars. It was basically a miracle and would've roped otherwise. HUGE reduction. I think it can be a useful tool for very specific problems such as acne scars are balding, but I agree. Needling for "collagen gains" is retarded, especially if done at home.

How many treatments did u get?

 

[LocalDanger]

Bump

 

[ifyouwannabemylover]

I always thought microneedling = autism

just use tret or minox instead of rolling needles over your face like an autist

 

[sloopnoob]

I see the same oumere article everytime this argument is made. They're selling their own products ofcourse they're going to say nothing but their products work. Find me any other article except this one.

 

[jake_okok]

Yh microneedling is good for shallow rolling and boxcars. Good luck...

i got tons of this shit post accutane, it looks so bad (honestly) in certain lighting - might attempt the home treatment.. thanks

 

[Deleted member 15698]

I'll address your worries, young autsits, so you can sleep well tonight. But really this is where critical thinking comes in to play. Don't just believe everything you read



1) Article published by a store that sells skin & hair products (financial incentive to discredit microneedling to sell their "better alternatives")



2) No studies or evidence



3) No anecdotal backing. Sometimes, something isn't scientifically proven but there are enough anecdotes to worry anyway. For instance thousands of people saying minoxidil destroyed their skin. But there is nobody saying Derminating ruined their skin and hair; everyone is saying it helps or does nothing worst case



4) No logic. Their single point is that dermarolling damages skin, therefore elicits a stress response and must be bad. This is completely retarded and here's why: stress responses to harm are not always bad, and are often good. Look up "hormetic stressor." Lifting damages the muscles, and the body responds by becoming more jacked. Restricting calories literally starves you on a cellular level, skyrocketing stress hormones and neurotransmitters. Yet the result is you live longer, are healthier, and are leaner

 

[Tobias Fünke]

I'll address your worries, young autsits, so you can sleep well tonight. But really this is where critical thinking comes in to play. Don't just believe everything you read



1) Article published by a store that sells skin & hair products (financial incentive to discredit microneedling to sell their "better alternatives")



2) No studies or evidence



3) No anecdotal backing. Sometimes, something isn't scientifically proven but there are enough anecdotes to worry anyway. For instance thousands of people saying minoxidil destroyed their skin. But there is nobody saying Derminating ruined their skin and hair; everyone is saying it helps or does nothing worst case



4) No logic. Their single point is that dermarolling damages skin, therefore elicits a stress response and must be bad. This is completely retarded and here's why: stress responses to harm are not always bad, and are often good. Look up "hormetic stressor." Lifting damages the muscles, and the body responds by becoming more jacked. Restricting calories literally starves you on a cellular level, skyrocketing stress hormones and neurotransmitters. Yet the result is you live longer, are healthier, and are leaner

I'm not saying your overall point is wrong, but I think what they are saying is that you can only elicit a stress response a finite number of times- that you can only synthesise a certain amount of collagen in your lifetime and by dermarolling you are effectively enhancing collagen production now but will not be capable of producing as much collagen later in life than you would be if you didn't dermaroll.

 

[Eezz]

Idk how deep your scars are but I got great improvements from 2 needling sessions with the Derminator at home. Even David Lim (the renowned acne derm), said there is no difference in the needle quality used in clinic vs at home.

Take a look at this post from another thread on microneedling:

how can you even microneedle your whole face at 2mm ? I used 1,5mm on a scar and it formed a huge scab

 

[ezio6]

Microneedle is good for skin, just dont forget to use vitamin c serum and tretinoin right after