mk is better than hgh for teens

[william.]

IGF-1 in healthy teenage boys is 300–700 ng/mL, so roughly 450 ng/mL.(15-18)


Adults:

Age (years)	IGF-1 Reference Range (ng/mL)
20	95 – 380
21–25	85 – 350
26–30	85 – 310
31–35	70 – 280

The liver/GH produces roughly 75% of IGF-1 for both teens and adults.

• In teens: 450 × 0.75 = 337.5 ng/mL from GH
• IGF-1 not affected by suppressing natural production: 450 – 337.5 = 112.5 ng/mL

In adult males(32.4 YO), IGF-1 increases by 88% with 6 IU daily, and their natural levels are around 180 ng/mL.(being generous)

• GH-dependent IGF-1: 180 × 0.75 = 135 ng/mL
• Non-GH IGF-1: 180 – 135 = 45 ng/mL
• 88% increase of GH-dependent IGF-1: 135 × 0.88 ≈ 118.8 ng/mL
• Total IGF-1 after near-complete suppression: 118.8 + 45 = 163.8 ng/mL

Exogenous growth hormone inhibits growth hormone-releasing factor-induced growth hormone secretion in normal men - PubMed

Previous studies from this laboratory and by others in rats, monkeys, and humans support the concept that growth hormone (GH) can regulate its own secretion through an autofeedback mechanism. With the availability of human growth hormone-releasing factor (GRF), the possible existence of such a...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

• Natural GH response to GRF before GH treatment: 2.3–11.2 ng/ml
• Natural GH response after 5 days of GH treatment: 0–1.3 ng/ml

Suppression is not 100%, so actual levels are slightly higher. maximum around baseline

For a teen: GH-dependent IGF-1 = 337.5 ng/mL, non-GH = 112.5 ng/mL.

• after administration: 118.8 + 112.5 ≈ 231.3 ng/mL assuming it will act the same proportionally

Other factors exist, but this is a pretty accurate. Actual levels are also slightly here higher since suppression is not 100%.

unless u pin ridiculous numbers there is no point taking gh as a teen

meanwhile mk gives no suppression and a 76 ng increase at 25 mg(https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9329386/)

 

[william.]

mk is obs also useless

 

[epsilonic]

Highest Low IQ thread ever

 

[epsilonic]

Highest Low IQ thread ever

Effect of the Orally Active Growth Hormone Secretagogue MK-677 on Somatic Growth in Rats - PubMed

Our results suggest that prolonged administration of MK-677 in rats does not promote growth despite the GH stimulatory effect of MK-677, which may be related to increased expression of SST in the hypothalamus. Further studies are needed to overcome the observed desensitization to GHS.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[william.]

Highest Low IQ thread ever

how? that study is on rats

 

[william.]

https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article-abstract/83/2/320/2865101

IGF-I increased by 78 ng/mL

 

[hej1377]

The last study on mk only had 5

The first on hgh only had 6

Mirin that you atleast tried to find evidence but these sample sizes are basically just a few single case reports and very unreliable

 

[Aryan Incel]

 

[william.]

The last study on mk only had 5

The first on hgh only had 6

Mirin that you atleast tried to find evidence but these sample sizes are basically just a few single case reports and very unreliable

why? thats a good enough sample size to give a general idea

 

[william.]

what?

 

[william.]

the only potential flaw is that Im assuming that teens and adults will respond the same proportionally

 

[william.]

@chadisbeingmade

 

[hej1377]

why? thats a good enough sample size to give a general idea

No, stable somewhat reliable results show up after ish 100 people, and even that is kinda low to really make a verdict

 

[william.]

No, stable somewhat reliable results show up after ish 100 people, and even that is kinda low to really make a verdict

The conclusion are not only based on the studies I linked, but also on generally understood mechanisms.

 

[hej1377]

The conclusions are not only based on the studies I linked, but also on generally understood mechanisms.

Sure but for a quantifiable statistic like this that is exeptionally hard to predict based on mechanisms, mechanism more just let you know what something does and not how potently it does it

 

[TheOsei]

88% increase of GH-dependent IGF-1: 135 × 0.88 ≈ 118.8 ng/mL

Nigga this is 12% less not 88% more

 

[JohnDon]

Noone of these are good btw

IGF-1 in healthy teenage boys is 300–700 ng/mL, so roughly 450 ng/mL.(15-18)


Adults:

Age (years)	IGF-1 Reference Range (ng/mL)
20	95 – 380
21–25	85 – 350
26–30	85 – 310
31–35	70 – 280

The liver/GH produces roughly 75% of IGF-1 for both teens and adults.

• In teens: 450 × 0.75 = 337.5 ng/mL from GH
• IGF-1 not affected by suppressing natural production: 450 – 337.5 = 112.5 ng/mL

In adult males(32.4 YO), IGF-1 increases by 88% with 6 IU daily, and their natural levels are around 180 ng/mL.(being generous)

• GH-dependent IGF-1: 180 × 0.75 = 135 ng/mL
• Non-GH IGF-1: 180 – 135 = 45 ng/mL
• 88% increase of GH-dependent IGF-1: 135 × 0.88 ≈ 118.8 ng/mL
• Total IGF-1 after near-complete suppression: 118.8 + 45 = 163.8 ng/mL

Exogenous growth hormone inhibits growth hormone-releasing factor-induced growth hormone secretion in normal men - PubMed

Previous studies from this laboratory and by others in rats, monkeys, and humans support the concept that growth hormone (GH) can regulate its own secretion through an autofeedback mechanism. With the availability of human growth hormone-releasing factor (GRF), the possible existence of such a...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

• Natural GH response to GRF before GH treatment: 2.3–11.2 ng/ml
• Natural GH response after 5 days of GH treatment: 0–1.3 ng/ml

For a teen: GH-dependent IGF-1 = 337.5 ng/mL, non-GH = 112.5 ng/mL.

• after administration: 118.8 + 112.5 ≈ 231.3 ng/mL assuming it will act the same proportionally

unless u pin ridiculous numbers there is no point taking gh as a teen

meanwhile mk gives no suppression and a 76 ng increase at 25 mg(https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9329386/)

 

[william.]

Sure but for a quantifiable statistic like this that is exeptionally hard to predict based on mechanisms, mechanism more just let you know what something does and not how potently it does it

the only thing that could vary if we had more subjects is the suppression and the increase in igf which i think wouldn't vary much cus the subjects where healthy and we have more data on this then the studies i linked

Nigga this is 12% less not 88% more

oh ma lord

Noone of these are good btw

true

 

[hej1377]

the only thing that could vary if we had more subjects is the suppression and the increase in igf which i think wouldn't vary much cus the subjects where healthy and we have more data on this then the studies i linked

There are mamy importsnt variables, how much igfbp's and ghbp's, metabolism, mass and body comp, recetor sensitivity in the liver, and for mk these things still happen but with the added variable of different petuitairy glands

This matter a lot especially with gh as that hormone differs A TON, both in between people and between themselfs at different times,activities etc

 

[TheOsei]

the only thing that could vary if we had more subjects is the suppression and the increase in igf which i think wouldn't vary much cus the subjects where healthy and we have more data on this then the studies i linked


oh ma lord

true

Misleading thread anyways. 8.5iu hgh brought igf levels to 703ng/ml

 

[BoneSmasher67]

IGF-1 in healthy teenage boys is 300–700 ng/mL, so roughly 450 ng/mL.(15-18)


Adults:

Age (years)	IGF-1 Reference Range (ng/mL)
20	95 – 380
21–25	85 – 350
26–30	85 – 310
31–35	70 – 280

The liver/GH produces roughly 75% of IGF-1 for both teens and adults.

• In teens: 450 × 0.75 = 337.5 ng/mL from GH
• IGF-1 not affected by suppressing natural production: 450 – 337.5 = 112.5 ng/mL

In adult males(32.4 YO), IGF-1 increases by 88% with 6 IU daily, and their natural levels are around 180 ng/mL.(being generous)

• GH-dependent IGF-1: 180 × 0.75 = 135 ng/mL
• Non-GH IGF-1: 180 – 135 = 45 ng/mL
• 88% increase of GH-dependent IGF-1: 135 × 0.88 ≈ 118.8 ng/mL
• Total IGF-1 after near-complete suppression: 118.8 + 45 = 163.8 ng/mL

Exogenous growth hormone inhibits growth hormone-releasing factor-induced growth hormone secretion in normal men - PubMed

Previous studies from this laboratory and by others in rats, monkeys, and humans support the concept that growth hormone (GH) can regulate its own secretion through an autofeedback mechanism. With the availability of human growth hormone-releasing factor (GRF), the possible existence of such a...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

• Natural GH response to GRF before GH treatment: 2.3–11.2 ng/ml
• Natural GH response after 5 days of GH treatment: 0–1.3 ng/ml

For a teen: GH-dependent IGF-1 = 337.5 ng/mL, non-GH = 112.5 ng/mL.

• after administration: 118.8 + 112.5 ≈ 231.3 ng/mL assuming it will act the same proportionally

unless u pin ridiculous numbers there is no point taking gh as a teen

meanwhile mk gives no suppression and a 76 ng increase at 25 mg(https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9329386/)

High baseline IGF-1 + GH suppression makes HGH inefficient in teens MK actually adds on top

 

[william.]

There are mamy importsnt variables, how much igfbp's and ghbp's, metabolism, mass and body comp, recetor sensitivity in the liver, and for mk these things still happen but with the added variable of different petuitairy glands

This matter a lot especially with gh as that hormone differs A TON, both in between people and between themselfs at different times,activities etc

yeah, but that doesn't really matter rn because there is so much data on the suppression. I can find other studies if that is your criticism

as for the mk study; idc. I just wanted to talk about how shit hgh is

Misleading thread anyways. 8.5iu hgh brought igf levels to 703ng/ml

unless u pin ridiculous numbers there is no point taking gh as a teen

8.5 just to be within the normal range

 

[hej1377]

eah, but that doesn't really matter rn because there is so much data on the suppression. I can find other studies if that is your criticism

Please do but the more important part was the igf conversion and the serum concentration difference inbetween people that differs

 

[william.]

Please do but the more important part was the igf conversion and the serum concentration difference inbetween people that differs

my whole point to show how inefficient it is in normal teens these variables wouldn't disprove that

 

[TheOsei]

yeah, but that doesn't really matter rn because there is so much data on the suppression. I can find other studies if that is your criticism

as for the mk study; idc. I just wanted to talk about how shit hgh is


8.5 just to be within the normal range

Normal doesnt mean average.
Normal is the range before entering acromegaly and shit

 

[william.]

Normal doesnt mean average.
Normal is the range before entering acromegaly and shit

well yeah thats why i quoted myself

Misleading thread anyways. 8.5iu hgh brought igf levels to 703ng/ml

send study btw

 

[Grievous]

 

[hej1377]

my whole point to show how inefficient it is in normal teens these variables wouldn't disprove that

Yes it very possibly could, if these teens in the study for example just had petuitairy glands that were less or more effient than average then the conclusion is inacurate, this study also doesnt take into account the absolutely massive error source of how inconsistent gh pulses are, gh just out of nowhere can increase hundreds of % and it just does this all day long, the odds of just happening to take tests while theyre levels were just high is pretty worrying

And in the hgh study, if the ones in the study had livers unable to make igf as efficient as average the conclusion is inaccurate,

And the odds of this happening is pretty damn high at these sample sizes when it comes to anything, the fact that its with growth

This is why you need a lot of subjects as the average is supossed to represent an entire society, there odds of being to accurately represent millions with 5 or 6 people is super small

 

[TheOsei]

well yeah thats why i quoted myself

send study btw

I just tested my igf levels bhai

 

[william.]

I just tested my igf levels bhai

are we actually that retarded?

 

[william.]

Yes it very possibly could, if these teens in the study for example just had petuitairy glands that were less or more effient than average then the conclusion is inacurate, this study also doesnt take into account the absolutely massive error source of how inconsistent gh pulses are, gh just out of nowhere can increase hundreds of % and it just does this all day long, the odds of just happening to take tests while theyre levels were just high is pretty worrying

And in the hgh study, if the ones in the study had livers unable to make igf as efficient as average the conclusion is inaccurate,

And the odds of this happening is pretty damn high at these sample sizes when it comes to anything, the fact that its with growth

This is why you need a lot of subjects as the average is supossed to represent an entire society, there odds of being to accurately represent millions with 5 or 6 people is super small

sure the exact numbers will vary, but I think the conclusion is still pretty accurate, because it’s based on well-understood physiology(GH suppression with exogenous GH) and the already high baseline GH-dependent IGF-1 in healthy teens.
What specific factors do you think is not being accounted for that would meaningfully change that conclusion?

 

[hej1377]

sure the exact numbers will vary, but I think the conclusion is still pretty accurate, because it’s based on well-understood physiology(GH suppression with exogenous GH) and the already high baseline GH-dependent IGF-1 in healthy teens.
What specific factors do you think is not being accounted for that would meaningfully change that conclusion?

And im not doubting he mechanisms, im not doubting lal this happens the crucial part is how much everything works, the specific numbers are very important and you didnt give good evidence for me to come to a reasonable conclusion

If good evidence for the numbers exist, provide it

 

[william.]

And im not doubting he mechanisms, im not doubting lal this happens the crucial part is how much everything works, the specific numbers are very important and you didnt give good evidence for me to come to a reasonable conclusion

If good evidence for the numbers exist, provide it

Im gonna ask u again what specifically are u doubting?

 

[el hit]

IGF-1 in healthy teenage boys is 300–700 ng/mL, so roughly 450 ng/mL.(15-18)


Adults:

Age (years)	IGF-1 Reference Range (ng/mL)
20	95 – 380
21–25	85 – 350
26–30	85 – 310
31–35	70 – 280

The liver/GH produces roughly 75% of IGF-1 for both teens and adults.

• In teens: 450 × 0.75 = 337.5 ng/mL from GH
• IGF-1 not affected by suppressing natural production: 450 – 337.5 = 112.5 ng/mL

In adult males(32.4 YO), IGF-1 increases by 88% with 6 IU daily, and their natural levels are around 180 ng/mL.(being generous)

• GH-dependent IGF-1: 180 × 0.75 = 135 ng/mL
• Non-GH IGF-1: 180 – 135 = 45 ng/mL
• 88% increase of GH-dependent IGF-1: 135 × 0.88 ≈ 118.8 ng/mL
• Total IGF-1 after near-complete suppression: 118.8 + 45 = 163.8 ng/mL

Exogenous growth hormone inhibits growth hormone-releasing factor-induced growth hormone secretion in normal men - PubMed

Previous studies from this laboratory and by others in rats, monkeys, and humans support the concept that growth hormone (GH) can regulate its own secretion through an autofeedback mechanism. With the availability of human growth hormone-releasing factor (GRF), the possible existence of such a...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

• Natural GH response to GRF before GH treatment: 2.3–11.2 ng/ml
• Natural GH response after 5 days of GH treatment: 0–1.3 ng/ml

For a teen: GH-dependent IGF-1 = 337.5 ng/mL, non-GH = 112.5 ng/mL.

• after administration: 118.8 + 112.5 ≈ 231.3 ng/mL assuming it will act the same proportionally

unless u pin ridiculous numbers there is no point taking gh as a teen

meanwhile mk gives no suppression and a 76 ng increase at 25 mg(https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9329386/)

dnr bs nigga kys

 

[hej1377]

Im gonna ask u again what specifically are u doubting?

Every quantifiable statistic mentioned, if it has a number atached to it it needs better evidence

 

[william.]

dnr bs nigga kys

argument?

 

[william.]

Every quantifiable statistic mentioned, if it has a number atached to it it needs better evidence

there is no way it would vary that much

 

[gymcelld]

trying to lower the competition mirin

 

[william.]

trying to lower the competition mirin

how so

 

[renos]

can MK do this

 

[william.]

can MK do this
View attachment 4424368

what is this supposed to show?

 

[renos]

what is this supposed to show?

was high sorry

 

[william.]

@SlayerJonas @chadisbeingmade is this correct?