MSE in Europe

[bossman]

Any clinics that offer MSE in Europe?

 

[Sergio-OMS]

Many, it is a quite common device.

 

[Golden Glass]

Many, it is a quite common device.

Definitely not a “quite common device”.

MSE has only been around for a few years. And it’s mainly being used in the Western Hemisphere and Asia.

 

[Nrrr15]

Whats MSE?

 

[Sergio-OMS]

Definitely not a “quite common device”.

MSE has only been around for a few years. And it’s mainly being used in the Western Hemisphere and Asia.

Ok maybe not as common as others, but still, not rare.

 

[Golden Glass]

Ok maybe not as common as others, but still, not rare.

The most experienced private practioner of MSE in North America (which is the continent with the most MSE practitioners), hasn’t even had 100 MSE patients yet.

So either you’re confusing what MSE is, or Europe has far more MSE practitioners than I know about.

 

[Sergio-OMS]

Many more than you know about. Even I am doing some cases with my orthodontist. They’re are several labs working with MSE in Spain.

 

[Golden Glass]

Many more than you know about. Even I am doing some cases with my orthodontist. They’re are several labs working with MSE in Spain.

No i know there’s MSE in Spain, but in central and Western Europe there’s far less.

And unless you show me that there’s like 75-100 clinics doing MSE in Europe , with each clinic having done at least dozens of patients, then no, MSE is not “quite common”.

It would definitely be helpful to European forum members if you list all the European doctors that do MSE

 

[Deleted member 1106]

Ok maybe not as common as others, but still, not rare.

Do you know if there are any in UK?

 

[Solo]

Many more than you know about. Even I am doing some cases with my orthodontist. They’re are several labs working with MSE in Spain.

Could MSE with face mask be an alternative to lefort 1 surgery?

Did you ever have a patient who need bimax and get MSE then BSSO only?

 

[Golden Glass]

Could MSE with face mask be an alternative to lefort 1 surgery?

Did you ever have a patient who need bimax and get MSE then BSSO only?

Yeah it’s been done. The latest age I’ve seen is on a 24 year old.

 

[Sergio-OMS]

Could MSE with face mask be an alternative to lefort 1 surgery?

I heard from others (and read) that only in very very VERY mild cases and late teens / early 20s, and only if no facial changes are wanted.

Did you ever have a patient who need bimax and get MSE then BSSO only?

I had some (but were teens) that had MSE + IMDO

 

[Ibuprefen650mg]

Many more than you know about. Even I am doing some cases with my orthodontist. They’re are several labs working with MSE in Spain.

Any recommended in Spain?

 

[Sergio-OMS]

Any recommended in Spain?

Haha, well, I'm using it I can recommend myself, of course.

 

[Ibuprefen650mg]

Haha, well, I'm using it I can recommend myself, of course.

Are you a dentist of some sorts? I'll PM you later.

 

[freeone12]

whats the diffrenece MSE vs SARPE?

 

[Sergio-OMS]

Are you a dentist of some sorts? I'll PM you later.

Maxfax surgeon. Feel free to PM.

whats the diffrenece MSE vs SARPE?

Several differences. I could write a very long post about it. Let’s say that MSE, if it works, it’s cheaper, less aggressive (fewer risks) and more effective. It doesn’t always work.

 

[OCDMaxxing]

Several differences. I could write a very long post about it. Let’s say that MSE, if it works, it’s cheaper, less aggressive (fewer risks) and more effective. It doesn’t always work.

What prevents MSE from working in some cases?

 

[Sergio-OMS]

What prevents MSE from working in some cases?

basically age and the maturation of the sutures of the skull

 

[OCDMaxxing]

basically age and the maturation of the sutures of the skull

But isn't there an easy fix for it by drilling a few holes along the middle suture of palate to allow easy separation with extra force applied from MSE?

I think they are called cortical punctures or something of that sort? The patient Ronald Ead said that that is an easy guranteed fix for these cases, so why not use that in older patients?

 

[Sergio-OMS]

There are more sutures around, you know. All of them offering resistance. Cortipunctures doesn’t always work.

 

[freeone12]

If im over 25 mse is not recommended?

 

[Sergio-OMS]

If im over 25 mse is not recommended? Sergio where are come from?

There are no written rules about it. Let’s say that I wouldn’t do MSE without any surgical assistance in males over 25 ( and maybe even younger )

I’m in Madrid, Spain

 

[OCDMaxxing]

There are more sutures around, you know. All of them offering resistance. Cortipunctures doesn’t always work.

Right ,but primary split that MSE achieves is midpalate right? So once that is done it should be smooth sailing? And as long as you give it enough punctures it HAS TO split, doesn't it? More surgical intervention, but it can't "not work" in terms of splitting palate if you give enough punctures.

There are no written rules about it. Let’s say that I wouldn’t do MSE without any surgical assistance in males over 25 ( and maybe even younger )

Why not? If you do cortipuncture, what could go wrong exactly?

 

[Sergio-OMS]

Right ,but primary split that MSE achieves is midpalate right? So once that is done it should be smooth sailing? And as long as you give it enough punctures it HAS TO split, doesn't it? More surgical intervention, but it can't "not work" in terms of splitting palate if you give enough punctures.

Why not? If you do cortipuncture, what could go wrong exactly?

In one word: relapse.

that can happen. it’s not about splitting the midpalatal suture, it’s about expanding the maxilla in an stable way by transmitting forces to several other bones and sutures.

 

[OCDMaxxing]

In one word: relapse.

that can happen. it’s not about splitting the midpalatal suture, it’s about expanding the maxilla in an stable way by transmitting forces to several other bones and sutures.

Couldn't you protect from relapse by keeping the MSE devices installed for longer amounts of time?

Have you worked with facemasks as well? Wouldn't using a face mask LONGER and then practicing proper oral posture prevent relapse?

In orthodontics retainers are also used to prevent relapse.

Thoughts?

 

[MogTheMogger]

its over, only bimax can save me, when the times come when i have money i will only surgery and bimaxxing.

 

[Sergio-OMS]

Couldn't you protect from relapse by keeping the MSE devices installed for longer amounts of time?

Have you worked with facemasks as well? Wouldn't using a face mask LONGER and then practicing proper oral posture prevent relapse?

In orthodontics retainers are also used to prevent relapse.

Thoughts?

I wish I had a reliable answer. MSE is rather new for most of us. To me it means I have a good tool to try to treat my patients, but I’m lucky I can offer other things as well in an integrated way.

I’m sure Won Moon could gather the data from all patients treated at UCLA to clarify a bit this subjects.

I agree with your comments. Proper oral muscle function is important to prevent relapse in any surgical or orthodontic treatment. But I’m not sure of that is enough.