spark
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bro it lengthens by one mm and widens your face like hell
yes a girl wrote this.seems like a girl wrote this right? having a higher top heavy face is a very good aesthetic outcome for any male (look at the zygos of most models) and the discrepancy is ez fixed thru jaw surgery afterwards.
idg how her face got longer tho? every person that had mse done that ive talked said it appeared short but that could just be a cancelling illusion from width increase.
Couldn't you shorten it by inducing CCW?bro it lengthens by one mm and widens your face like hell
mse and fm is not good for CCW rotation. It doesn’t shorten midface but it increases facial width which might create a better illusion for your long midfaceCouldn't you shorten it by inducing CCW?
Shorter midface was a big reason why i was getting MSE,
I guess that kinda makes sense that she doesn’t like it then, flanged zygos on a girl would look weird/masc af without the right harmonyyes a girl wrote this.
sadly doesn’t seem very possibleCouldn't you shorten it by inducing CCW?
Shorter midface was a big reason why i was getting MSE,
hmmm tbh my midface isn't long anyway, my ratio is 1.08, but i'm aiming for 1.2mse and fm is not good for CCW rotation. It doesn’t shorten midface but it increases facial width which might create a better illusion for your long midface
lefortshmmm tbh my midface isn't long anyway, my ratio is 1.08, but i'm aiming for 1.2
What do you think is the best protocol for CCW and achieving a shorter midface?
hmmm tbh my midface isn't long anyway, my ratio is 1.08, but i'm aiming for 1.2
What do you think is the best protocol for CCW and achieving a shorter midface?
FUAAAAAAAAARKleforts
My midface ratio is 1.08 but my fwhr is 1.6, my fwhr is low/subhuman due to my high set eyebrows and terrible bizygomatic width, those don't influence your midface ratioWhy would u want to shorten a 1.08 midface lmao? On most people that’s more compact than ideal. Didn’t u also say u had low fwhr, very contradictory?
So is lefort really the only way to achieve a ccw rotation?mse and fm is not good for CCW rotation. It doesn’t shorten midface but it increases facial width which might create a better illusion for your long midface
while mse on its own doesnt shorten midface, you can manipulate the bones easily due to weak sutures, incisor chewing with mse would do work for midface reductionCouldn't you shorten it by inducing CCW?
Shorter midface was a big reason why i was getting MSE,
a really good way would also be MARPE positioned in the anterior maxilla and pulling upward (30° force vector) like this pictureSo is lefort really the only way to achieve a ccw rotation?
MSE is just a type of MARPE right? Also where did you get this idea from? Has this even ever been done before?a really good way would also be MARPE positioned in the anterior maxilla and pulling upward (30° force vector) like this picture
And simulation (not real) says it will look like this
But who would be willing to install this. It’s hard enough trying to find someone willing to give msea really good way would also be MARPE positioned in the anterior maxilla and pulling upward (30° force vector) like this picture
And simulation (not real) says it will look like this
This was from a study by Won Moon. Yes, MSE is a type of MARPE. I have no idea, but it looks like a good idea for CCW rotation, although we may need a good suture split for faster movementMSE is just a type of MARPE right? Also where did you get this idea from? Has this even ever been done before?
Idk tbh. Most orthodontists use MSE, if they want to do a mini implanted expansion instead of the outdated shitty MARPE which involves unparalleled splits. This idea is most likely never gonna happen. So we mind as well just say leforts are the only good way to get CCW rotationBut who would be willing to install this. It’s hard enough trying to find someone willing to give mse
What is the facemask really for if it can't create a CCW rotation?This was from a study by Won Moon. Yes, MSE is a type of MARPE. I have no idea, but it looks like a good idea for CCW rotation, although we may need a good suture split for faster movement
It’s for class III patients (underbites). But Dr. Ting told me that the lower jaw auto rotates when the maxilla goes forward. But idk if it actually does. I convinced my doctor it does, still don’t know if I should wear it, maybe I’ll get lower jaw surgery for free with my huge overjet jflWhat is the facemask really for if it can't create a CCW rotation?
misread questionWhat is the facemask really for if it can't create a CCW rotation?
At what angle would you pull? I have heard some people claim that since the MSE is more at the back of maxilla it should be pulled at a downward angle. Sounds kind of like bs to me but I really am clueless. I have never seen anyone pull at an upward angle while using MSE.It’s for class III patients (underbites). But Dr. Ting told me that the lower jaw auto rotates when the maxilla goes forward. But idk if it actually does. I convinced my doctor it does, still don’t know if I should wear it, maybe I’ll get lower jaw surgery for free with my huge overjet jfl
-30° to the occlusal plane. results are slight anterior tipping, said on the study this is the best angle for posterior micro implant fm’s (mse)At what angle would you pull? I have heard some people claim that since the MSE is more at the back of maxilla it should be pulled at a downward angle. Sounds kind of like bs to me but I really am clueless. I have never seen anyone pull at an upward angle while using MSE.
It increases IPD so the midface isn’t going to be that affected.
I am looking at the paper-30° to the occlusal plane. results are slight anterior tipping, said on the study this is the best angle for posterior micro implant fm’s (mse)
The zygos only bend during fast expansion right?while mse on its own doesnt shorten midface, you can manipulate the bones easily due to weak sutures, incisor chewing with mse would do work for midface reduction
MARPE can give ccw rotationCouldn't you shorten it by inducing CCW?
Shorter midface was a big reason why i was getting MSE,
yeah im considering that, I might get MSE and just have a facepuller that only comes in contact with the anterior/front palate. My midface isn't long anywayMARPE can give ccw rotation
Me too, but it could be more compact eitheryeah im considering that, I might get MSE and just have a facepuller that only comes in contact with the anterior/front palate. My midface isn't long anyway
It would be enough to shorten it by 2mm in my caseMe too, but it could be more compact either
View attachment 496168
Such movement would be able to shorten midface by 5-6mm at least
fuck man that simulation looks amazing, srs goals tbhMe too, but it could be more compact either
View attachment 496168
Such movement would be able to shorten midface by 5-6mm at least
True but its only available with MARPE since MSE can't be placed at the front of palatefuck man that simulation looks amazing, srs goals tbh
Do you think i'd be able to get MARPE at 45/44mm IMW? I'm thinking to get around 10mm of MSE mostly for a wider face, my current IMW is 34mm. Then MARPE for CCW.True but its only available with MARPE since MSE can't be placed at the front of palate
How do we know MSE can't produce anything remotely similar? The study only used downward force with MSE and also showed that the -45 degree did a lot more lengthening than the -30 degree force:True but its only available with MARPE since MSE can't be placed at the front of palate
MSE can't be placed at front because MSE is created to split all sutures in the back of maxilla when MARPE only give "V" shape split at the front. Theoretically MARPE is worse than MSE but on my case I need ccw do much and unfortunately MSE can't give me that.How do we know MSE can't produce anything remotely similar? The study only used downward force with MSE and also showed that the -45 degree did a lot more lengthening than the -30 degree force:
View attachment 496224
I was thinking the same-first split sutures with MSE then remove and get MARPE at the front. I would be possible but probably MSDO will be needed and I don't know how many mm you can widen without joint problemsDo you think i'd be able to get MARPE at 45/44mm IMW? I'm thinking to get around 10mm of MSE mostly for a wider face, my current IMW is 34mm. Then MARPE for CCW.
I was thinking the same-first split sutures with MSE then remove and get MARPE at the front. I would be possible but probably MSDO will be needed and I don't know how many mm you can widen without joint problems
Bruh mse has 4 screws, and placed in the middle and the back maxilla. So where tf should we pull wtf??nvm confused
which one would be mse though?
@curryslayerordeath @Dr Shekelberg @retard @Elias
If mse is on the middle of the palate. We should pull upward right @spark
Fuarkkkk I am so confused
You can just install it as an anchor for the facemask without any additional splitting.I was thinking the same-first split sutures with MSE then remove and get MARPE at the front. I would be possible but probably MSDO will be needed and I don't know how many mm you can widen without joint problems
That's a good tradeoffbro it lengthens by one mm and widens your face like hell
This is why you're supposed to do MSE+Facemask THEN combine it with IMDO or Bimax for optimal results aesthetically and functionally