MSE/RPE palate expansion creates ogres (and what is better for facial aesthetics)

monecel

monecel

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I have been discussing with some acquaintances about how beneficial MSE (Maxillary Skeletal Expander) actually is, if beneficial at all. A narrow palate is commonly seen as a major failing point, however if you look at the many examples of MSE expansions, a lot of the time the definition in the face worsens and other facial features get impacted (lip shape, nose width, face width, nose height etc.).

Here is an example of how RPE (Rapid Palate Expansion) can change other facial features negatively:

1729549604416


A lot of the people who get MSE done have an average palate width and average maxilla width as well, turning them into a gapped-tooth ogre at a great monetary expense. Also it can cause asymmetry due to the different forces due to random bone structure differences, and with greater expansion this becomes more obvious.

Some examples of negative RPE/MSE before and afters:

1729548081803


1729548301924

1729548379625

1729548604863


1729549095473


1729549187358


Seen enough? lol

While for a few select individuals with severe palate deformity or breathing issues, standard MSE is NOT OPTIMAL or at minimum not predictable for facial aesthetics. What should also be mentioned is that a lot of the RPE/MSE before-and-afters include other alterations like fixing crooked teeth and/or an over or underbite. It may often be the case that the major failing point may have been unrelated to the frontal palate width and the other changes make people think it is a good idea.

I propose that MSE should not be done for individuals who have front palates with a width of above ~3cm. What is more ideal (as discussed in some other posts) is an expansion of the back palate. What has not really been discussed in detail however is the best way to do this.

Appliances which apply angular pressured rotative force to all of the molars and biscupids to increase back palate width are the most ideal for those with narrow palates / 6-teeth smiles. Rather than an implanted device into the hard palate, such devices are attached to the molars. These come with numerous advantages, first being aesthetics.

Example of optimal rotation:
Example of


The continued rotated force on the molars causes a back-expansion of the alveolar process of the maxilla, rather than an artificial and forced frontal canine fossa split and seperation.

Due to the angular process of the back of the palate, I propose that there may also be secondary modulation of the zygomatic bones, as they connect further to the back of the maxilla, expansion may affect zygomatic prominance. Rather than creating a suture in the processus alveolaris, an expansion at the back of the palate looks more likely to positively improve facial aesthetics.

The two appliances I have personally researched and plan to use consists of the Bihelix appliance and Nitanium Palate Expander2 appliance. Unlike something like the quad helix, the two seem to almost selectively increase the width of the back-palate compared to the front.


Bi-Helix Appliance (Lower):




Nitanium Palate Expander2 Appliance (Upper):



A shape like below (in red) seems more optimal for facial aesthetics than the blue:

1729550119710


I will report my experiences with these two appliances when I get my hands on them, or if I discover a more suitable device.

Thx for read :feelshehe:
 

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IMG 2340
 
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guy looks better after idk if its the expansion
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no way either sth went terribly wrong or morphed
 
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I have been discussing with some acquaintances about how beneficial MSE (Maxillary Skeletal Expander) actually is, if beneficial at all. A narrow palate is commonly seen as a major failing point, however if you look at the many examples of MSE expansions, a lot of the time the definition in the face worsens and other facial features get impacted (lip shape, nose width, face width, nose height etc.).

Here is an example of how RPE (Rapid Palate Expansion) can change other facial features negatively:

View attachment 3251443

A lot of the people who get MSE done have an average palate width and average maxilla width as well, turning them into a gapped-tooth ogre at a great monetary expense. Also it can cause asymmetry due to the different forces due to random bone structure differences, and with greater expansion this becomes more obvious.

Some examples of negative RPE/MSE before and afters:

View attachment 3251397

View attachment 3251401
View attachment 3251406
View attachment 3251412


While for a few select individuals with severe palate deformity or breathing issues, standard MSE is NOT OPTIMAL or at minimum not predictable for facial aesthetics. What should also be mentioned is that a lot of the RPE/MSE before-and-afters include other alterations like fixing crooked teeth and/or an over or underbite. It may often be the case that the major failing point may have been unrelated to the frontal palate width and the other changes make people think it is a good idea.

I propose that MSE should not be done for individuals who have front palates with a width of above ~3cm. What is more ideal (as discussed in some other posts) is an expansion of the back palate. What has not really been discussed in detail however is the best way to do this.

Appliances which apply angular pressured rotative force to all of the molars and biscupids to increase back palate width are the most ideal for those with narrow palates / 6-teeth smiles. Rather than an implanted device into the hard palate, such devices are attached to the molars. These come with numerous advantages, first being aesthetics.

Example of optimal rotation:
View attachment 3251393

The continued rotated force on the molars causes a back-expansion of the alveolar process of the maxilla, rather than an artificial and forced frontal canine fossa split and seperation.

Due to the angular process of the back of the palate, I propose that there may also be secondary modulation of the zygomatic bones, as they connect further to the back of the maxilla, expansion may affect zygomatic prominance. Rather than creating a suture in the processus alveolaris, an expansion at the back of the palate looks more likely to positively improve facial aesthetics.

The two appliances I have personally researched and plan to use consists of the Bihelix appliance and Nitanium Palate Expander2 appliance. Unlike something like the quad helix, the two seem to almost selectively increase the width of the back-palate compared to the front.


Bi-Helix Appliance (Lower):




Nitanium Palate Expander2 Appliance (Upper):



A shape like below (in red) seems more optimal for facial aesthetics than the blue:

View attachment 3251466

I will report my experiences with these two appliances when I get my hands on them, or if I discover a more suitable device.

Thx for read :feelshehe:

The second one good wide palate it mogs
 
I have been discussing with some acquaintances about how beneficial MSE (Maxillary Skeletal Expander) actually is, if beneficial at all. A narrow palate is commonly seen as a major failing point, however if you look at the many examples of MSE expansions, a lot of the time the definition in the face worsens and other facial features get impacted (lip shape, nose width, face width, nose height etc.).

Here is an example of how RPE (Rapid Palate Expansion) can change other facial features negatively:

View attachment 3251443

A lot of the people who get MSE done have an average palate width and average maxilla width as well, turning them into a gapped-tooth ogre at a great monetary expense. Also it can cause asymmetry due to the different forces due to random bone structure differences, and with greater expansion this becomes more obvious.

Some examples of negative RPE/MSE before and afters:

View attachment 3251397

View attachment 3251401
View attachment 3251406
View attachment 3251412


While for a few select individuals with severe palate deformity or breathing issues, standard MSE is NOT OPTIMAL or at minimum not predictable for facial aesthetics. What should also be mentioned is that a lot of the RPE/MSE before-and-afters include other alterations like fixing crooked teeth and/or an over or underbite. It may often be the case that the major failing point may have been unrelated to the frontal palate width and the other changes make people think it is a good idea.

I propose that MSE should not be done for individuals who have front palates with a width of above ~3cm. What is more ideal (as discussed in some other posts) is an expansion of the back palate. What has not really been discussed in detail however is the best way to do this.

Appliances which apply angular pressured rotative force to all of the molars and biscupids to increase back palate width are the most ideal for those with narrow palates / 6-teeth smiles. Rather than an implanted device into the hard palate, such devices are attached to the molars. These come with numerous advantages, first being aesthetics.

Example of optimal rotation:
View attachment 3251393

The continued rotated force on the molars causes a back-expansion of the alveolar process of the maxilla, rather than an artificial and forced frontal canine fossa split and seperation.

Due to the angular process of the back of the palate, I propose that there may also be secondary modulation of the zygomatic bones, as they connect further to the back of the maxilla, expansion may affect zygomatic prominance. Rather than creating a suture in the processus alveolaris, an expansion at the back of the palate looks more likely to positively improve facial aesthetics.

The two appliances I have personally researched and plan to use consists of the Bihelix appliance and Nitanium Palate Expander2 appliance. Unlike something like the quad helix, the two seem to almost selectively increase the width of the back-palate compared to the front.


Bi-Helix Appliance (Lower):




Nitanium Palate Expander2 Appliance (Upper):



A shape like below (in red) seems more optimal for facial aesthetics than the blue:

View attachment 3251466

I will report my experiences with these two appliances when I get my hands on them, or if I discover a more suitable device.

Thx for read :feelshehe:

I wish I could get a mse I’m to old for one tbh
 
You are an idiot. Expanding the front of the palate is more important than the back. It makes your nostrils more symmetrical. :blackpill:
 
"What are the visible effects of MSE palatal expansion on facial structure? You may notice a mild to moderate change in your facial structure following MSE palatal expansion. This typically involves an increase in mid-facial width and, potentially, an improvement in the overall facial symmetry."
 
MSE was great for breathing but horrible for aesthetics.
I got approached frequently before. Not anymore.
Many features of mine were borderline ideal before like nosed facial width, IPD, so treatment altered them into an abnormal range.
And the worst. It expands asymmetrical and accentuates already present asymmetry.
Also the jaw will look narrower in consequence.

However it depends. If you have a narrow skull, narrow nose or non existent cheekbones to begin with, it can actually improve your appearance.
 
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MSE was great for breathing but horrible for aesthetics.
I got approached frequently before. Not anymore.
Many features of mine were borderline ideal before like nosed facial width, IPD, so treatment altered them into an abnormal range.
And the worst. It expands asymmetrical and accentuates already present asymmetry.
Also the jaw will look narrower in consequence.

However it depends. If you have a narrow skull, narrow nose or non existent cheekbones to begin with, it can actually improve your appearance.
Was the palate split surgically assisted in your case? Like piezielectric split.
 
MSE was great for breathing but horrible for aesthetics.
I got approached frequently before. Not anymore.
Many features of mine were borderline ideal before like nosed facial width, IPD, so treatment altered them into an abnormal range.
And the worst. It expands asymmetrical and accentuates already present asymmetry.
Also the jaw will look narrower in consequence.

However it depends. If you have a narrow skull, narrow nose or non existent cheekbones to begin with, it can actually improve your appearance.
will rpe at 19 be effective my checkbones narrow from narrow palate
 
I have been discussing with some acquaintances about how beneficial MSE (Maxillary Skeletal Expander) actually is, if beneficial at all. A narrow palate is commonly seen as a major failing point, however if you look at the many examples of MSE expansions, a lot of the time the definition in the face worsens and other facial features get impacted (lip shape, nose width, face width, nose height etc.).

Here is an example of how RPE (Rapid Palate Expansion) can change other facial features negatively:

View attachment 3251443

A lot of the people who get MSE done have an average palate width and average maxilla width as well, turning them into a gapped-tooth ogre at a great monetary expense. Also it can cause asymmetry due to the different forces due to random bone structure differences, and with greater expansion this becomes more obvious.

Some examples of negative RPE/MSE before and afters:

View attachment 3251397

View attachment 3251401
View attachment 3251406
View attachment 3251412


While for a few select individuals with severe palate deformity or breathing issues, standard MSE is NOT OPTIMAL or at minimum not predictable for facial aesthetics. What should also be mentioned is that a lot of the RPE/MSE before-and-afters include other alterations like fixing crooked teeth and/or an over or underbite. It may often be the case that the major failing point may have been unrelated to the frontal palate width and the other changes make people think it is a good idea.

I propose that MSE should not be done for individuals who have front palates with a width of above ~3cm. What is more ideal (as discussed in some other posts) is an expansion of the back palate. What has not really been discussed in detail however is the best way to do this.

Appliances which apply angular pressured rotative force to all of the molars and biscupids to increase back palate width are the most ideal for those with narrow palates / 6-teeth smiles. Rather than an implanted device into the hard palate, such devices are attached to the molars. These come with numerous advantages, first being aesthetics.

Example of optimal rotation:
View attachment 3251393

The continued rotated force on the molars causes a back-expansion of the alveolar process of the maxilla, rather than an artificial and forced frontal canine fossa split and seperation.

Due to the angular process of the back of the palate, I propose that there may also be secondary modulation of the zygomatic bones, as they connect further to the back of the maxilla, expansion may affect zygomatic prominance. Rather than creating a suture in the processus alveolaris, an expansion at the back of the palate looks more likely to positively improve facial aesthetics.

The two appliances I have personally researched and plan to use consists of the Bihelix appliance and Nitanium Palate Expander2 appliance. Unlike something like the quad helix, the two seem to almost selectively increase the width of the back-palate compared to the front.


Bi-Helix Appliance (Lower):




Nitanium Palate Expander2 Appliance (Upper):



A shape like below (in red) seems more optimal for facial aesthetics than the blue:

View attachment 3251466

I will report my experiences with these two appliances when I get my hands on them, or if I discover a more suitable device.

Thx for read :feelshehe:

@monecel would you need to talk to an orthodontist to apply this? Or can it be done alone.
 
I will consult an orthodontist
What are you gonna say to him to convince to listen to some kid about his 'aesthetics'. He's only going to give you his standard treatment according to his knowledge
 
Why not ALF or DNA? DNA seem to produce most results
 
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I have been discussing with some acquaintances about how beneficial MSE (Maxillary Skeletal Expander) actually is, if beneficial at all. A narrow palate is commonly seen as a major failing point, however if you look at the many examples of MSE expansions, a lot of the time the definition in the face worsens and other facial features get impacted (lip shape, nose width, face width, nose height etc.).

Here is an example of how RPE (Rapid Palate Expansion) can change other facial features negatively:

View attachment 3251443

A lot of the people who get MSE done have an average palate width and average maxilla width as well, turning them into a gapped-tooth ogre at a great monetary expense. Also it can cause asymmetry due to the different forces due to random bone structure differences, and with greater expansion this becomes more obvious.

Some examples of negative RPE/MSE before and afters:

View attachment 3251397

View attachment 3251401
View attachment 3251406
View attachment 3251412


While for a few select individuals with severe palate deformity or breathing issues, standard MSE is NOT OPTIMAL or at minimum not predictable for facial aesthetics. What should also be mentioned is that a lot of the RPE/MSE before-and-afters include other alterations like fixing crooked teeth and/or an over or underbite. It may often be the case that the major failing point may have been unrelated to the frontal palate width and the other changes make people think it is a good idea.

I propose that MSE should not be done for individuals who have front palates with a width of above ~3cm. What is more ideal (as discussed in some other posts) is an expansion of the back palate. What has not really been discussed in detail however is the best way to do this.

Appliances which apply angular pressured rotative force to all of the molars and biscupids to increase back palate width are the most ideal for those with narrow palates / 6-teeth smiles. Rather than an implanted device into the hard palate, such devices are attached to the molars. These come with numerous advantages, first being aesthetics.

Example of optimal rotation:
View attachment 3251393

The continued rotated force on the molars causes a back-expansion of the alveolar process of the maxilla, rather than an artificial and forced frontal canine fossa split and seperation.

Due to the angular process of the back of the palate, I propose that there may also be secondary modulation of the zygomatic bones, as they connect further to the back of the maxilla, expansion may affect zygomatic prominance. Rather than creating a suture in the processus alveolaris, an expansion at the back of the palate looks more likely to positively improve facial aesthetics.

The two appliances I have personally researched and plan to use consists of the Bihelix appliance and Nitanium Palate Expander2 appliance. Unlike something like the quad helix, the two seem to almost selectively increase the width of the back-palate compared to the front.


Bi-Helix Appliance (Lower):




Nitanium Palate Expander2 Appliance (Upper):



A shape like below (in red) seems more optimal for facial aesthetics than the blue:

View attachment 3251466

I will report my experiences with these two appliances when I get my hands on them, or if I discover a more suitable device.

Thx for read :feelshehe:

The two devices you said look like my lower and upper alf,
Are you familiar with FME?
 
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I have been discussing with some acquaintances about how beneficial MSE (Maxillary Skeletal Expander) actually is, if beneficial at all. A narrow palate is commonly seen as a major failing point, however if you look at the many examples of MSE expansions, a lot of the time the definition in the face worsens and other facial features get impacted (lip shape, nose width, face width, nose height etc.).

Here is an example of how RPE (Rapid Palate Expansion) can change other facial features negatively:

View attachment 3251443

A lot of the people who get MSE done have an average palate width and average maxilla width as well, turning them into a gapped-tooth ogre at a great monetary expense. Also it can cause asymmetry due to the different forces due to random bone structure differences, and with greater expansion this becomes more obvious.

Some examples of negative RPE/MSE before and afters:

View attachment 3251397

View attachment 3251401
View attachment 3251406
View attachment 3251412


While for a few select individuals with severe palate deformity or breathing issues, standard MSE is NOT OPTIMAL or at minimum not predictable for facial aesthetics. What should also be mentioned is that a lot of the RPE/MSE before-and-afters include other alterations like fixing crooked teeth and/or an over or underbite. It may often be the case that the major failing point may have been unrelated to the frontal palate width and the other changes make people think it is a good idea.

I propose that MSE should not be done for individuals who have front palates with a width of above ~3cm. What is more ideal (as discussed in some other posts) is an expansion of the back palate. What has not really been discussed in detail however is the best way to do this.

Appliances which apply angular pressured rotative force to all of the molars and biscupids to increase back palate width are the most ideal for those with narrow palates / 6-teeth smiles. Rather than an implanted device into the hard palate, such devices are attached to the molars. These come with numerous advantages, first being aesthetics.

Example of optimal rotation:
View attachment 3251393

The continued rotated force on the molars causes a back-expansion of the alveolar process of the maxilla, rather than an artificial and forced frontal canine fossa split and seperation.

Due to the angular process of the back of the palate, I propose that there may also be secondary modulation of the zygomatic bones, as they connect further to the back of the maxilla, expansion may affect zygomatic prominance.

Rather than creating a suture in the processus alveolaris, an expansion at the back of the palate looks more likely to positively improve facial aesthetics.
you don’t create a suture you break/open it
and what you said all isn’t concerned with aesthetics at all
MSE is and never was a aesthetic device
yes u can gain some changes from it but mostly people are using it for airways

The two appliances I have personally researched and plan to use consists of the Bihelix appliance and Nitanium Palate Expander2 appliance. Unlike something like the quad helix, the two seem to almost selectively increase the width of the back-palate compared to the front.
They will only tip out the teeths like damon braces as they are tooth borne and only will damage the existing base rather than improving it

Bi-Helix Appliance (Lower):




Nitanium Palate Expander2 Appliance (Upper):



A shape like below (in red) seems more optimal for facial aesthetics than the blue:

View attachment 3251466

I will report my experiences with these two appliances when I get my hands on them, or if I discover a more suitable device.

Thx for read :feelshehe:
 

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