MUDSLIMES ARE COPING DOGS

[reptiles]

Picking between Christianity and Islam is funny because if you pick wrong one your gonna burn burn burn bun bun bun hot fire bun lmfao

i like to belive that god feels bad to he just makes desperate heavens for both faiths OR when islam and Christian’s die he brings them together and says “yeah you both worship me anywyas stop the hate”

Christianty faith wise makes no sense. Let me phase a question to you.

If some 1 raped your child killed your wife and poured acid. Onto you would you send your twin to die for the guy who did all these things if the guy doesnt even care.


Simiarly is thst how god works he sends an incarnation of himself to sacrifice himself to us so that he may forgive us.

Does not sound logically incoheret to you?

Also i think hell isnt eternal tbqh.

 

[PrinceLuenLeoncur]

according to unbiased study of koran islam is an abstract noun which means submittion to god or peace typically with god..its not a proper noun like most people have misunderstood it..its a way of life and muslim is a person who submitts to god..it can be anyone like ABraham is called Muslim in koran although he probably didnt knew who Mhuammad was..to enter gods kindom u need to do 3 things and its written in koran 2:62
its as simple as that

Hmm I get it, makes sense

Global map of genetic diversity:

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Pattern-of-genetic-diversity-in-worldwide-human-populations-The-distribution-of-STR_fig3_303388742

here’s a real map

Mad you can see South American is both the least diverse and most diverse place (outside of Africa) in fact according to this map most places are equal in diveristy with only africa being diverse

 

[Persian]

Christianty faith wise makes no sense. Let me phase a question to you.

If some 1 raped your child killed your wife and poured acid. Onto you would you send your twin to die for the guy who did all these things if the guy doesnt even care.


Simiarly is thst how god works he sends an incarnation of himself to sacrifice himself to us so that he may forgive us.

Does not sound logically incoheret to you?

Also i think hell isnt eternal tbqh.

I miss you, brother. Don't know if you remember me, though.

 

[TeraCope54]

Oh viking paganism mogged loki the cross dressing bestiality fuck.

Fake jewish crap.

Gender & Homosexuality in Norse Culture

Liberals today use Norse mythology and our heritage to justify their LGBT+ agenda. For legal reasons I will not argue against their agenda here, but I will show you how here they err in this contex…

thuleanperspective.com

 

[Deleted member 16384]

Hell is an spiritual place not an pit of fire god is all loving merceiful and just it also says in the quran hell will be eventually be empty all this implies is the fate of the damned eternal resting place is hell but its not conscious torment for eternity god is to loving for that.

No, they will physically suffer and this suffering will last forever. It clearly says, they will burn in hell for eternity. Find me a single quotation where it says, hell will be empty. No, hell will be filled with disbelievers.

 

[reptiles]

Fake jewish crap.

Gender & Homosexuality in Norse Culture

Liberals today use Norse mythology and our heritage to justify their LGBT+ agenda. For legal reasons I will not argue against their agenda here, but I will show you how here they err in this contex…

thuleanperspective.com

I dont trust his sources for anything hes been debunked by many phd graduates unless its cited by a scholar im not reading it.

 

[Ryan]

Hell is an spiritual place not an pit of fire god is all loving merceiful and just it also says in the quran hell will be eventually be empty all this implies is the fate of the damned eternal resting place is hell but its not conscious torment for eternity god is to loving for that.

its perma but exception is made that if god wills otherwise he can abolish it and i think he will do it in the end

 

[reptiles]

its perma but exception is made that if god wills otherwise he can abolish it and i think he will do it in the end
View attachment 1478799

The word for eternal. In arabic abada which means age i dont think the damned are ever gonna get paradise but i dont think god is gonna consiously torment some 1 until the the end of time.

Like that makes no sense finite sin cannot recompense infinite punishment.

 

[ropemax]

No, they will physically suffer and this suffering will last forever. It clearly says, they will burn in hell for eternity. Find me a single quotation where it says, hell will be empty. No, hell will be filled with disbelievers.

You should be caged like the abused dog you are and your religion outlawed.

 

[Detona]

Hmm I get it, makes sense

here’s a real map View attachment 1478794

Mad you can see South American is both the least diverse and most diverse place (outside of Africa) in fact according to this map most places are equal in diveristy with only africa being diverse

No, that is not in fact a real map and it does not say what you think it does.
The map I posted is from a peer reviewed study published by an actual scientist. Your map is from an anonymous Reddit cuck, and still shows that there is less genetic variability in South America than North America.

 

[PrinceLuenLeoncur]

No, that is not in fact a real map and it does not say what you think it does.
The map I posted is from a peer reviewed study published by an actual scientist. Your map is from an anonymous Reddit cuck, and still shows that there is less genetic variability in South America than North America.

Actually my map shows SA is more diverse than Europe and NA


STILL WHH ARE EAST ASIANS NOT INBRED THEN THEIR GENTIC DIVERSITY IS SMALL AF

 

[Detona]

Hmm I get it, makes sense

here’s a real map View attachment 1478794

Mad you can see South American is both the least diverse and most diverse place (outside of Africa) in fact according to this map most places are equal in diveristy with only africa being diverse

No, that is not in fact a real map and it does not say what you think it does.
The map I posted is from a peer reviewed study published by an actual scientist. Your map is from an anonymous Reddit cuck, and still shows that there is less genetic variability in South America. However it's still a fake map and my map is the only real one.

 

[Ryan]

The word for eternal. In arabic abada which means age i dont think the damned are ever gonna get paradise but i dont think god is gonna consiously torment some 1 until the the end of time.

Like that makes no sense finite sin cannot recompense infinite punishment.

yh bro like i said if u even consider that word as eternal then agin in koran 11:106-108 god makes an exception that if he wills otherwise he can abolish it

 

[Detona]

Actually my map shows SA is more diverse than Europe and NA


STILL WHH ARE EAST ASIANS NOT INBRED THEN THEIR GENTIC DIVERSITY IS SMALL AF

No, your map says that South America is substantially less diverse than Europe and North America.


Your problem is that you don't understand how to read your own map.

 

[Pendejo]

I miss you, brother. Don't know if you remember me, though.

 

[TeraCope54]

I dont trust his sources for anything hes been debunked by many phd graduates unless its cited by a scholar im not reading it.

He hasn't been debunked by anyone, his interpretation is the correct one, as jewish and tranny "historians" interpret in a way to tarnish european history. Also jfl at you "not reading if it isn't from a scholar or phd" and then read the quran, the single most debunked book in history.

 

[Deleted member 16279]

I think op is taking the piss on the wrong people
didn't he get bullied by the africans on here?

 

[PrinceLuenLeoncur]

Christianty faith wise makes no sense. Let me phase a question to you.

If some 1 raped your child killed your wife and poured acid. Onto you would you send your twin to die for the guy who did all these things if the guy doesnt even care.


Simiarly is thst how god works he sends an incarnation of himself to sacrifice himself to us so that he may forgive us.

Does not sound logically incoheret to you?

Also i think hell isnt eternal tbqh.

It’s about forgiveness JFL @ u chatting shit. Jesus didn’t die on purpose he tried to lead people and teach them about god but he was killed and whislt HE DIED HE BEGGED GOD TO FORGIVE THE HERETICS AND PAGANS KILLING HIM

the new testimony is edited and has a lot of nonesne in it but the old testiment makes it clear gods stance on such affairs which is what I follow not the new testiment “AN EYE FOR AN EYE”
Implying you kill my son I can kill yours

Islam could arguably make no sense if PBUH was so great why did he have to become a warlord to conquer people and then calm himself the religion of peace? How TF do people belive he flew off on a unicorn when he died and that he split the moon Like piccolo from DBZ. I can go on but islam also have some nonesne in it just like Christianity the differnce is Christians are wiling too accept this Muslims are not

 

[PrinceLuenLeoncur]

No, your map says that South America is substantially less diverse than Europe and North America.


Your problem is that you don't understand how to read your own map.

Once again if it’s so deep why are gooks not inbred jokes as they have lowest genetic diversity (prob explaining why they all look alike)

inbreds are lower IQ and they are not dumb

 

[Detona]

Once again if it’s so deep why are gooks not inbred jokes as they have lowest genetic diversity (prob explaining why they all look alike)

inbreds are lower IQ and they are not dumb

You can be inbred and have high IQ. Jews are inbred and have high IQ.

 

[TeraCope54]

I dont trust his sources for anything hes been debunked by many phd graduates unless its cited by a scholar im not reading it.

Quran has countless scientific errors.

Scientific Errors in the Quran

wikiislam.net

 

[reptiles]

He hasn't been debunked by anyone, his interpretation is the correct one, as jewish and tranny "historians" interpret in a way to tarnish european history. Also jfl at you "not reading if it isn't from a scholar or phd" and then read the quran, the single most debunked book in history.

Lets see scholars have 30 years of experience in the field there talking about.

Any time something negative comes up about european history you day its tarnishing again your not an neautral source.

This guy has been debunked multiple times by kevin bird.


The tranny loki thing isnt an swedosh feminist thing in the norse mythology loki shape shifts into a literal fucking donkey and has sex with an horse and gives birth with spider like thing or some wierd abomination.

But even if this wasn't a fact the creation myth alone makes it 10x dumber than anything muslims or christians believe.

And unlike your bullshit that relies on oral tradition ours is solidified and consistent and follows an coherent world view.

Also nice fucking try you hypocrite any time an brow. Person does something bad you wanna call them mudslimes but whenever your retarded ancestors practice pederasty or homosexuality then its tarnishing european history.

 

[reptiles]

Quran has countless scientific errors.

Scientific Errors in the Quran

wikiislam.net

Because its not a scientific book you dumb fuck your not gonna use an instrument to measure the the volume of light.

Its an book on theology god works within a cultural frame work and the writers of the quran were human beings with there own belifs and doubts.

Your only supposed use the quran for theological perspectives. Also even still it mogs the flying fuck out of norse myths.

 

[reptiles]

It’s about forgiveness JFL @ u chatting shit. Jesus didn’t die on purpose he tried to lead people and teach them about god but he was killed and whislt HE DIED HE BEGGED GOD TO FORGIVE THE HERETICS AND PAGANS KILLING HIM

the new testimony is edited and has a lot of nonesne in it but the old testiment makes it clear gods stance on such affairs which is what I follow not the new testiment “AN EYE FOR AN EYE”
Implying you kill my son I can kill yours

Islam could arguably make no sense if PBUH was so great why did he have to become a warlord to conquer people and then calm himself the religion of peace? How TF do people belive he flew off on a unicorn when he died and that he split the moon Like piccolo from DBZ. I can go on but islam also have some nonesne in it just like Christianity the differnce is Christians are wiling too accept this Muslims are not

So the unicorn thing happened in a vision its like when ezekiel saw an device that hsd wheels within wheels.


You hate to best mind vision snd reality. Also what im saying is typical christain theology.

They think christ came in the flesh sacrififed himself for us so we can be redemmed through his sacrifice.

Its called the justification by faith its 1 of the articles of modern orthadox Christianty.

 

[TeraCope54]

Lets see scholars have 30 years of experience in the field there talking about.

Any time something negative comes up about european history you day its tarnishing again your not an neautral source.

This guy has been debunked multiple times by kevin bird.


The tranny loki thing isnt an swedosh feminist thing in the norse mythology loki shape shifts into a literal fucking donkey and has sex with an horse and gives birth with spider like thing or some wierd abomination.

But even if this wasn't a fact the creation myth alone makes it 10x dumber than anything muslims or christians believe.

And unlike your bullshit that relies on oral tradition ours is solidified and consistent and follows an coherent world view.

Also nice fucking try you hypocrite any time an brow. Person does something bad you wanna call them mudslimes but whenever your retarded ancestors practice pederasty or homosexuality then its tarnishing european history.

You have to understand, nothing from these poozed historians can be taken as honest interpretation when it comes to norse culture. What is more likely? That loki dressed once as a woman because he is a tranny, or because he wanted to camouflage, like he usually does as a shapeshifter? These tranny historian intepretations don't make sense. Not to mention that a lot of their shitty sources are christian texts, from christcucks who hated pagans.

Let’s take the last thing first. Gudmundar Saga. This is not the full name of that saga, so let us first call it by it’s real name: Prestssaga Guðmundar byskups. This translates approximately as “The Priest Saga of the Bishop Gudmund”, who died in 1237 on Iceland.

Iceland was converted to Christianity in the year 1000, and as the title of the saga in question suggests, this was not a saga about Pagans in a Pagan Iceland. This was a saga about Christians in a country that had officially converted to Christianity some 200+ years before, and 300+ years before the saga was written, much of it in a Benedictine School of writing, I may add (so at least much of it was written by Benedictine monks).

The opinions and world view in that saga are wholly that of the Christian monks who wrote it, and not that of the Pagan society that had existed 300+ years before. This is also the only saga where anything like this is written about.

It is clear that many places, even in Europe, a man is not considered to be homosexual if he rapes another man. It is not considered to be homosexual to “give”, but only to “receive”. This however is not and has never been the case in Scandinavia, where both the “giver” and the “receiver” are considered to be homosexual. Therefore, for example, you find no sexualized violence in Scandinavian prisons, because the rapist would have been seen as a homosexual just as much as the rape victim – and yes, that would have been seen as extremely shameful for him. The last thing you want to be in a prison, save perhaps except a rapist, is a homosexual. They are not treated well by the other prisoners at all, so to speak. Outside of modern liberals, there is and never was a culture of or tolerance for homosexuality in Scandinavia.

Ergi translates as “immoral lust”, “fornication”, “madness”, “anger” and “evil (or “bad force”)”. The verb ergjast, from the same root, means “become unmanly”, “become weak” or simply “weaken”, known from the Norse proverb: Svá ergjast hverr sem eldist (“Every man who grows old grows weak”).

The term still exists in modern Norwegian ergelig, meaning “annoying”, “irritating” or “vexatious” and ergre, “to annoy” etc. It appears in modern Icelandic as ergeligur, meaning “to seem irritable” or “to appear irritable”.

David F. Greenberg, who did the original studies on this, concludes that only the “taker” was ergi (“had immoral lust”), and not the giver, but he comes to this conclusion based on a Christian saga written at least partly by Benedictine monks 300+ years after Iceland was Christianized. I don’t see how this should prove anything in relation to Pagan Scandinavia, or Pagan Iceland.

Then we arrive at the first mentioned group of arguments they have, with reference to different myths in the Norse mythology. Their problem is that they take the myths literally, when we know they are actually metaphorical, filled to the brim with kenningar (“metaphors”). They come to their conclusions because they don’t understand the myths, their meaning or purpose; they don’t understand what the deities represent or indeed what a Norse deity is to begin with.

As demonstrated in our Paganism Explained series, and as demonstrated by Marie Cachet in her The Secret of the She-Bear, our mythology revolves around reincarnation. When the deities return to life, when they reincarnate, they need the mother to panic, to become afraid, at the end of the birth. As the term suggests, it is related to the deity Pan, known in Norse mythology by the name Víðarr and Loki. This is adrenaline, or what causes adrenaline to come. Called Panic.

The myth about Loki changing into a mare and giving birth to Sleipnir, is a myth describing the pregnancy and it’s end. The Ettin mason hired to build a wall is the womb, building the foetus, with help from a horse, the placenta. After some time “the building of the wall” (the pregnancy) has to end, for the child to be born, and this is where adrenaline, Loki, comes in, provoking the birth and thus getting rid of the placenta.

It is even suggested in the myth, that fear is what drives Loki to take action. The other deities threaten to beat him to death unless he does something. Terrified, he… panics, and does his job.

No, they did not know about adrenaline, but they knew about the feeling caused by adrenaline, and they knew about fear and panic, and how important this was for the woman to give birth. And no, Loki is not “genderfluid”. Adrenaline, fear and panic, has no sex. Both men and women, young and old, can panic.

The “cross-dressing” of Þórr is a myth about how Ettins have stolen his hammer, and he needs to get it back. To do so, he needs to pretend to be Freyja. Again, it’s a myth about reincarnation. Þórr is the spark of life, his hammer is his beating heart, life itself. He is dead, and needs to be reborn. So he travels to the Ettins, the womb, in form of a fertilized egg: the male deity Þórr as Freyja (“[female] seed [i. e. egg])”. There he eats and drinks greedily, in order to grow as a foetus, and when he is finally ready to be reborn, he grabs his hammer and kills the Ettins. Note that when a child is born and starts to breathe, when his heart starts to work sans assistance from the mother, this “kills” the placenta. Also, when still a foetus, the child has no sex. It is neither male nor female. It will become a male or a female later on in the pregnancy.

Note that he is accompanied by Loki, adrenaline, panic, because he cannot be reborn and get his heart back without him!

This has nothing to do with cross-dressing…

Then their final piece of evidence: Óðinn’s “shameful” female sorcery. You can read what I said about Sorcery, to know more about this, but first let me explain a few things: when a woman is pregnant and is ready to give birth, she is assisted by midwives. Women who dress in white robes, wise women, known as the Norns in Norse mythology, able to examine the placenta and by doing so tell if the child will suffer from this or that illness in life, or have this or that quality in life (they are thus called “goddesses of destiny”, not because they give a destiny to the child, but because they can predict it, by analysing the placenta after birth).

Well, they were the midwives alright, but in Pagan Europe they also had something called the midwives of the mind. Yes, we know this from Ancient Greek philosophy as maïeutics – commonly known as “the Socratic method”. As you can understand, the term comes from the goddess Maïa, the midwife of the gods. The midwives of the mind of the ancient world are commonly known as the Druids today, and they dressed in white robes, just like “real” midwives. Yes, they were taught about midwifery from the goddess of midwifery, Maïa…

This is the “shameful” midwifery of Óðinn – the god of the mind in Scandinavia. As I explain in my blog post about Sorcery, this has nothing to do with homosexual practises and it is not shameful at all, save perhaps in Christian eyes. It was not unmanly to be a Druid.

 

[Lihito]

Christianity, Islam and Judaism are the same sandnigger semitic bullshit.

A mere separation by The reptilian overlorda

 

[TeraCope54]

Because its not a scientific book

Many muslims claim it is, and quran itself makes claims. Muslims are always performing mental gymnastics when something in quran gets debunked. It's scientific, but it also isn't when it gets debunked.

 

[PrinceLuenLeoncur]

So the unicorn thing happened in a vision its like when ezekiel saw an device that hsd wheels within wheels.


You hate to best mind vision snd reality. Also what im saying is typical christain theology.

They think christ came in the flesh sacrififed himself for us so we can be redemmed through his sacrifice.

Its called the justification by faith its 1 of the articles of modern orthadox Christianty.

Yes Jesus sacrificed himself HE BEGGED GOD TO NOT SMITE DOWN MAN AND ASKED GOD TO FORGIVE MAN SO HE CAN LESD THEM EVEN IN DEATH THATS THE WHOLE POINT CHRISTIANJTY IS ABOUT REDEMTION AND FOLLOWING JESUS TO REACB GODS KINGDOM

Jesus didn’t want to die nor did he know he was going to die like that nor did he went to sacrifice himself point is Jesus died due to man and this opened up man to the chance to atone for their sins of killing him and Jesus being a teacher will guide people into god kingdom

If you knew about Christianity you’d know this

the crucifix isn’t warn as a sign Jesus died it’s warn as a sign of his sacrifice and GODS love for his son to forgive man despite putting his prophet through so much pain

 

[Ryan]

Because its not a scientific book you dumb fuck your not gonna use an instrument to measure the the volume of light.

Its an book on theology god works within a cultural frame work and the writers of the quran were human beings with there own belifs and doubts.

Your only supposed use the quran for theological perspectives. Also even still it mogs the flying fuck out of norse myths.

yh its a book of philosophy and theology and a book of guidence but most nigs are low iq to get this

 

[reptiles]

You have to understand, nothing from these poozed historians can be taken as honest interpretation when it comes to norse culture. What is more likely? That loki dressed once as a woman because he is a tranny, or because he wanted to camouflage, like he usually does as a shapeshifter? These tranny historian intepretations don't make sense. Not to mention that a lot of their shitty sources are christian texts, from christcucks who hated pagans.


It's because of those Christ cucks your faith isn't fucking lost to the dark ages we only know odin or these mother fuckers exist because of Christian monks also if you studied indo European myths most of the people believed in retarded creation myths like this even the Hindus the Iranians they all thought like this.

A common motif was a council of gods creation from nothingness and void people aren't scared to look at European history just look at it yourself the Vikings were a culture of bloodthirsty monsters nothing about the myths seem that out of place with the way they live.

 

[TeraCope54]

Its an book on theology god works within a cultural frame work and the writers of the quran were human beings with there own belifs and d.

>Islamic historians Patricia Crone, Michael Cook, John Wansbrough, and archaeologist Yehuda D. Nevo all argue that all the primary Islamic historical sources which exist are from 150 to 300 years after the events which they describe, leaving several generations for events to be forgotten, misinterpreted, distorted, garbled, etc.[69][70][71] They contend that Islam was formed gradually over a number of centuries after the Muslim conquests, as the Islamic conquerors elaborated and backdated their beliefs and history in response to Jewish and Christian challenges.[72]

In 1999, Cook and Crone argued that "there is no hard evidence for the existence of the Koran in any form before the last decade of the seventh century."[73]

 

[reptiles]

>Islamic historians Patricia Crone, Michael Cook, John Wansbrough, and archaeologist Yehuda D. Nevo all argue that all the primary Islamic historical sources which exist are from 150 to 300 years after the events which they describe, leaving several generations for events to be forgotten, misinterpreted, distorted, garbled, etc.[69][70][71] They contend that Islam was formed gradually over a number of centuries after the Muslim conquests, as the Islamic conquerors elaborated and backdated their beliefs and history in response to Jewish and Christian challenges.[72]

In 1999, Cook and Crone argued that "there is no hard evidence for the existence of the Koran in any form before the last decade of the seventh century."[73]

>Citing Wikipedia as a final source.

Also, the dating is around 150 years give or take we know this because the sources used for Muhammad's invasion into some parts of Syria were later than thought and that was the oldest source we have of him.

 

[TeraCope54]

It's because of those Christ cucks your faith isn't fucking lost to the dark ages we only know odin or these mother fuckers exist b

It wouldn't be lost if christcucks didn't burn down entire villages and scripts, they have written some things, but even more is lost because of them.

 

[reptiles]

It wouldn't be lost if christcucks didn't burn down entire villages and scripts, they have written some things, but even more is lost because of them.

Actual fucking cope the Vikings raided and murdered innocent Christian monks there like the Ancient Isis and they wanna cry, victim.

 

[TeraCope54]

>Citing Wikipedia as a final source.

Also, the dating is around 150 years give or take we know this because the sources used for Muhammad's invasion into some parts of Syria were later than thought and that was the oldest source we have of him.

There is no mention of the "Quran" nor "Islam",[78] nor "rightly guided caliphs", nor any of the famous futūḥbattles by Christian Byzantines in their historical records describing the Arab invaders advance, leaders or religion; the lack of any surviving documents by those Arabs who "lived through the establishment of the Caliphate";[79] the fact that coins of the region and era did not use Islamic iconography until sometime after 685 CE.[80][81] Evidence to suggest there was a break in the transmission of the knowledge of the meaning of much of the Quran not accounted for by Islamic historical tradition, a break somewhere after the time of the Quran's revelation and before its earliest commentators, includes the "mystery letters" and unintelligible words and phrases.

According to tradition, the Quran was composed in the early 7th century CE, but according to historian Tom Holland, "only in the 690's did a Caliph finally get around to inscribing the Prophet's name on a public monument; only decades after that did the first tentative references to him start to appear in private inscriptions".[79]

 

[reptiles]

>Islamic historians Patricia Crone, Michael Cook, John Wansbrough, and archaeologist Yehuda D. Nevo all argue that all the primary Islamic historical sources which exist are from 150 to 300 years after the events which they describe, leaving several generations for events to be forgotten, misinterpreted, distorted, garbled, etc.[69][70][71] They contend that Islam was formed gradually over a number of centuries after the Muslim conquests, as the Islamic conquerors elaborated and backdated their beliefs and history in response to Jewish and Christian challenges.[72]

In 1999, Cook and Crone argued that "there is no hard evidence for the existence of the Koran in any form before the last decade of the seventh century."[73]

OH and btw the later dating of the texts was because they needed to compile the texts in a standard orthodox tradition what do you think the council of Nicaea was also the Hadiths are secondary sources on the words of Muhammad these are not words of God or revelation and Muhammad doesn't speak for god.

 

[TeraCope54]

Actual fucking cope the Vikings raided and murdered innocent Christian monks there like the Ancient Isis and they wanna cry, victim.

Christcucks were always the attacking side, they were the ones who spread their religion to people who didn't want it.

 

[ThatDjangoWalk]

>Islamic historians Patricia Crone, Michael Cook, John Wansbrough, and archaeologist Yehuda D. Nevo all argue that all the primary Islamic historical sources which exist are from 150 to 300 years after the events which they describe, leaving several generations for events to be forgotten, misinterpreted, distorted, garbled, etc.[69][70][71] They contend that Islam was formed gradually over a number of centuries after the Muslim conquests, as the Islamic conquerors elaborated and backdated their beliefs and history in response to Jewish and Christian challenges.[72]

In 1999, Cook and Crone argued that "there is no hard evidence for the existence of the Koran in any form before the last decade of the seventh century."[73]

Now go lie to the church since they seek for more people like you. You quoted 3 random orientalist scholars with interest at hands and forgot the rest.

Just your last sentence and all the theories of those western """scholars""" got debunked with the recently discovered Birmingham manuscript, which is estimated to be from 568 to 645 (exactly the time of the Prophet). Now suddenly those 3 western oriemtalist have to change their entire story.

I can give the history of the preservation of the Qur'an from A to Z, and it is the standard accepted version by both Muslim and Orientalist scholars

During the Prophet Muhammad (alayhi a salat wa salam/blessings and peace be upon him) time as a prophet, the verses of the Qur'an were memorized as they were revealed, and about 42 scribes wrote the verses on different materials such as paper, cloth, bone fragments and leather. In ancient times, literacy was a skill that few people had and prophet Muhammad (alayhi a salat wa salam) himself did not know how to read or write.

During the time of Caliph Abu Bakr, when 70 people who knew the Quran by heart (qari), were killed in the Battle of Yamama, Umar ibn al-Khattab became concerned and appealed to Abu Bakr in order to compile the Quran into a book. Abu Bakr formed a delegation under the leadership of Zaid ibn Thabit, one of the leading scribes. This delegation of 12 people, including famous figures such as Uthman ibn Affan, Ali ibn Abi Talib, Talha ibn Ubaydullah, Abdullah ibn Masood, Ubayy ibn Kab, Khalid ibn al-Walid, Hudhaifah and Saleem, came together in Umar's house and collected all the materials on which verses from the Quran were written. In addition, the verses memorized by the companions were heard as well. Each of them was asked to show two witnesses for the verse they read.

Thus, all the verses of the Quran that describe the creation of the universe and people, judgment day, exemplary stories of the people who lived before and the beliefs, worship, morals and legal bases that believers should obey were collected together into a single-volume book. Each of the verses was taught by the archangel Gabriel and declared by Prophet Muhammad.

The verse is the name given to each sentence of the Quran and the surah is the name given to each part of the holy book. There are 6,236 verses, 114 surahs and about 323,000 letters in the Quran. Saeed ibn al-Aas, who was renowned for the beauty of his handwriting, wrote them down on gazelle skin. The writing used was the Arabic script of the time, which was already old and used commonly at that time in Hejaz. The companions reached a consensus that this writing, which was used by Prophet Ismail in Hejaz, is the writing of Muslims. The copy of the Quran was recited to the companions at a general meeting. There was no objection. So, a book called "mushaf" emerged, which means written verses. A total of 33,000 companions agreed that every letter of the Quran was in the right place. Then this mushaf was sent to Umar ibn al-Khattab. After his death, this book passed on to Hazrat Hafsah, the daughter of Umar and a wife of Prophet Muhammad.

A difference was observed in the recitation of the Quran in the Armenia battles between Muslims from Damascus and Iraq during the period of the third caliph, Uthman. Hudhaifah, one of the companions, went before the caliph on his way back from an expedition and asked him to prevent this. On the 25th year of the hijra (647), Uthman gathered a delegation attended by Abdullah ibn al-Zubair, Saeed ibn al-Aas and Abd al-Rahman ibn Harith under the leadership of Zaid ibn Thabit. All of them, except for Zaid, were from Quraysh. Uthman said that the dialect of Quraysh should be preferred if they were to fall into conflict with Zaid regarding the dialect, since Muhammad was from the Quraysh tribe. The Quran had been revealed in seven dialects of the Arabic language of the time. The first Muslims who were literate could easily read the writing of their own language, but somewhat differently, since at the time the Arabic script did not have diacritical marks to differentiate letters or vowel symbols.

For example, those from the Tameem tribe pronounced the letter "sin" as "te" and read the word "nas" as "nat." It was diverse and convenient, and did not change the meaning or message. The delegation brought the original mushaf from Hafsah. In this mushaf, the surahs were not separated from each other. The surahs were sorted according to the order of their descent in Ali's manuscript and according to their lengths in the manuscript of Abdullah ibn Masood. Now the verses were written in the Quraysh dialect.

The surahs were arranged in rows, separated from each other regarding their length and alignment with each other. The order of the surahs was not based on the order the archangel Gabriel gave them to Prophet Muhammad, but on the consensus of the companions. From the new copy, some mushafs were also written on parchment and sent to different places such as Bahrain, Damascus, Basra, Kufa, Yemen and Mecca, accompanied by a qari. There are also rumors that copies were sent to Egypt and Jazeera.

The copy that stayed with the caliph was called al-Mushaf al-Imam (the head mushaf). There is no difference between the mushafs recited around the world to this day, since they were all copied from original copies. Thus, the Quran was written during Muhammad's lifetime, while its compilation was done during the caliphate of Abu Bakr and it was copied during the caliphate of Uthman. In Topkapı Palace and the Museum of Turkish-Islamic Arts in Istanbul, there are mushafs from Uthman and Ali's period.

The standard academic historical narrative about the collection and codification of the Qur'an is still Theodore's Nöldeke book "The history of the Qur'an", and his 2nd volume is completely in line with the Muslim historical narrative in this aspect. There is virtually a consensus among the vast majority of historians in regards to this.

 

[TeraCope54]

OH and btw the later dating of the texts was because they needed to compile the texts in a standard orthodox tradition

Source?

and Muhammad doesn't speak for god.

Didn't angel gabriel cite to him?

 

[reptiles]

Source?

Didn't angel gabriel cite to him?

Yeah but angels are messengers of god they are still God's words. The fact that they are compiled 150 years after his death there were many different schools arguing what was trusted what was not what is gods word what is not like again you don't believe in the Quran to start with so your gonna say some mother fucker compiled the Quran to fit with his agenda .

But again if your a Muslim you believe in the divine providence that god was acting through people to compile his word. Early muslims even had different sects Islam is not a monolith nor did it come about without humans acting on the book. but there was intense debate on what hadiths are real and are forgeries.

 

[TeraCope54]

Birmingham manuscript

Saud al-Sarhan, Director of Center for Research and Islamic Studies in Riyadh, has been more sceptical, questioning whether the parchment might have been reused as a palimpsest, and also noting that the writing had chapter separators and dotted verse endings – features in Arabic scripts which are believed not to have been introduced to the Quran until later.[26]

 

[reptiles]

Christcucks were always the attacking side, they were the ones who spread their religion to people who didn't want it.

Actual cope in fact people converted by choice in the ancient Norse tribe's religion wasn't as big a deal as Christianity they became assimilated super easily because they only cared about their way of life it was Christianity that civilized them.

 

[TeraCope54]

Actual cope in fact people converted by choice in the ancient Norse tribe's religion wasn't as big a deal as Christianity they became assimilated super easily because they only cared about their way of life it was Christianity that civilized them.

Charlemange's invasions into the north disagree with you. The north was forcibly converted under him for 30 years.
Btw, was africa civilised by christianity then?

 

[reptiles]

Charlemange's invasions into the north disagree with you. The north was forcibly converted under him for 30 years.
Btw, was africa civilised by christianity then?

Your implying the colonialism Europe did to Africa is connected with Christianity so by practicing slavery dishonoring the image of god you were honoring them right?.

Also the vikings weren't innocent in this they were just as barbarous it's not like they were trying to oppose impearialism

 

[reptiles]

Saud al-Sarhan, Director of Center for Research and Islamic Studies in Riyadh, has been more skeptical, questioning whether the parchment might have been reused as a palimpsest, and also noting that the writing had chapter separators and dotted verse endings – features in Arabic scripts which are believed not to have been introduced to the Quran until later.[26]

that doesn't mean much it's small grammar changes the earliest quran is around 570 ce there are slight differences between grammatical tones but humans wrote the Quran that's to be expected. regardless though it's within the lifetime range of the prophet

>>The Prophet Muhammad is thought to have lived between A.D. 570 and A.D. 632, and according to Muslim tradition, he received the revelations that make up the Quran between A.D. 610 and A.D. 632. The divine message was not written at that time, though. "Instead, the revelations were preserved in the 'memories of men,'" said David Thomas and Nadir Dinshaw, both religious professors at the University of Birmingham.>>

 

[TeraCope54]

Your implying the colonialism Europe did to Africa is connected with Christianity

It is.

 

[ThatDjangoWalk]

Saud al-Sarhan, Director of Center for Research and Islamic Studies in Riyadh, has been more sceptical, questioning whether the parchment might have been reused as a palimpsest, and also noting that the writing had chapter separators and dotted verse endings – features in Arabic scripts which are believed not to have been introduced to the Quran until later.[26]

Looks like you forgot to continue the copy paste from Wikipedia

Joseph E. B. Lumbard of Brandeis University has written in the Huffington Post in support of the dates proposed by the Birmingham scholars. Lumbard notes that the discovery of a Quranic text that may be confirmed by radiocarbon dating as having been written in the first decades of the Islamic era, while presenting a text substantially in conformity with that traditionally accepted, reinforces a growing academic consensus that many Western sceptical and 'revisionist' theories of Quranic origins are now untenable in the light of empirical findings – whereas, on the other hand, counterpart accounts of Quranic origins within classical Islamic traditions stand up well in the light of ongoing scientific discoveries.[30]

Jamal bin Huwareib, managing director of the Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum Foundation, has proposed that, were the radiocarbon dates to be confirmed, the Birmingham/Paris Quran might be identified with the text known to have been assembled by the first Caliph Abu Bakr, between 632 and 634 CE.[31]

So now suddenly, you have a Qur'an manuscript that dates between the death of the Prophet and the lifetime of Uthman (alayhim a salat wa salam), and let alone other Islamic texts. Now suddenly the theory of the 3 random orientalists you chosed to somehow support which is "Primary sources date from 150 to 300 years after the events which they describe" completely crumbles.

Ridiculous, now continue your copy pasting and keep ignoring the standard opinions, the chains of narrations of completely different people from different cities, the fact that you can go to Senegal and Indonesia and read the same Qur'an, and also keep avoiding learning about the standard scholarly position of the Bible's preservation amd how even some of the most famous verses are accepted to be fabrications by 99.9% of christian priests themselves, lile the history of Jesus forgiving the prostitute and others, or how the 4 canonical gospels contradict each other, etc etc etc. Go ahead, continue your selective copy and pasting and we will both play.

 

[reptiles]

It is.

Wait how is calling another human being monkeys and saying they are not descended from Adam linked with the idea of Christian theology in Christian, Muslim theology all human beings are divinely created by God to enslave to mock and to ridicule another human is extreme blasphemy also if Europe was pagan do you think paganism wouldn't have lead to the same thing? there is no sanctity of life in pagan myths.

In greek myths were all the sweat of the titans. in Norse myths were made from tree oaks. In Islamic faith or you can call it myth cause your an atheist man is a divine being with divine attributes 1 one cannot harm another man as that would be harming another divine being. We have a very high place in creation.

 

[Almost Chadlite]

itt OP crying cuz muslim do not suck jew dick unlike christianmutts

 

[TeraCope54]

Looks like you forgot to continue the copy paste from Wikipedia

Joseph E. B. Lumbard of Brandeis University has written in the Huffington Post in support of the dates proposed by the Birmingham scholars. Lumbard notes that the discovery of a Quranic text that may be confirmed by radiocarbon dating as having been written in the first decades of the Islamic era, while presenting a text substantially in conformity with that traditionally accepted, reinforces a growing academic consensus that many Western sceptical and 'revisionist' theories of Quranic origins are now untenable in the light of empirical findings – whereas, on the other hand, counterpart accounts of Quranic origins within classical Islamic traditions stand up well in the light of ongoing scientific discoveries.[30]

Jamal bin Huwareib, managing director of the Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum Foundation, has proposed that, were the radiocarbon dates to be confirmed, the Birmingham/Paris Quran might be identified with the text known to have been assembled by the first Caliph Abu Bakr, between 632 and 634 CE.[31]

So now suddenly, you have a Qur'an manuscript that dates between the death of the Prophet and the lifetime of Uthman (alayhim a salat wa salam), and let alone other Islamic texts. Now suddenly the theory of the 3 random orientalists you chosed to somehow support which is "Primary sources date from 150 to 300 years after the events which they describe" completely crumbles.

Ridiculous, now continue your copy pasting and keep ignoring the standard opinions, the chains of narrations of completely different people from different cities, the fact that you can go to Senegal and Indonesia and read the same Qur'an, and also keep avoiding learning about the standard scholarly position of the Bible's preservation amd how even some of the most famous verses are accepted to be fabrications by 99.9% of christian priests themselves, lile the history of Jesus forgiving the prostitute and others, or how the 4 canonical gospels contradict each other, etc etc etc. Go ahead, continue your selective copy and pasting and we will both play.

All that is only true if you assume carbon dating gives a 100% accurate year. It doesn't. It gives a range from 568 - 645 AD. And that is the dating of the MATERIAL it was written on, not the writing itself.