MUSLIMS GTFIH

[BrrBrrPatapimTralle]

The most popular dilemma is simply called "the Islamic dilemma." It can be summarized very easily. The Quran affirms the Bible; the Bible doesn't affirm the Quran (Surah Al-Ma'idah 5:44, Surah Al-Ma'idah 5:46, Galatians 1:8-9). This dilemma isn't new and can be dated back to the 8th century (George of B'eltan). The second dilemma I call the "love dilemma". This is more of a dilemma with non-Triune Gods in general, but the argument goes something like this: if God is love, then who does he love from eternity? In a Trinity, you have an eternal bond of love, the Father loves the Son, and the Holy Spirit is a bond of that love, but in a non-Triune God, it needs creation to love, meaning love is an attribute added to a non-Triune God after creation, which means God's attributes change with creation, which creates two dilemmas. 1. How can an eternal, unchanging God change with creation, and 2. How can God be love if love isn't a part of its identity? The third dilemma is similar to the first and is called the "talmudic dilemma." Basically, there is more than enough evidence to support the idea that the Quran copied some parts of the Talmud (Qur'an 21:51-67 - Avodah Zarah 54b, Qur'an 27:16-19 - Gittin 68b, Qur'an 2:30-34 -Sanhedrin 38b, Qur'an 21:68-70 - Pesachim 118a, Qur'an 2:31 - Chullin 60a). This creates a dilemma: not only does the Quran contradict the Talmud, but the Talmud is also not recognized in the Islamic canon. Creating a dilemma, how can an uninspired text make its way into the Quran? (Assuming the Quran is from God and eternal) Allah somehow made a mistake and used an uninspired, blasphemous text in his eternal, undying, and uncorrupted word or the Talmud is the inspired word of Allah not only does this make no sense because the Talmud says Isa or Jesus is burning in fecal matter in hell (Gittin 57a) but the Talmud spefically warns of a prophet that contradicts the Torah which fits Muhammad perfectly (Sanhedrin 90a). (Assuming the Quran is written) The writers of the Quran used an uninspired text that blasphemes prophets and warns of false prophets like Muhammad in the holy word of Allah, meaning the Quran is not perfect and is liable for mistakes, making it unreliable. The fourth dilemma I call the "miracles dilemma". It's pretty simple: According to the Quran Jesus performed miracles and was sinless (Qur'an 3:49, Qur'an 5:110, Qur'an 3:36, Qur'an 19:19). Muhammad, however, the final and greatest prophet, not only performed zero miracles (Qur'an 6:37, Qur'an 6:109, Qur'an 17:90-93), but also sinned (Qur'an 47:19, Qur'an 48:1-2, Qur'an 93:7, Qur'an 66:1) according to Sahih al-Bukhari 6307 Muhammad was sinning 70 times a day on average. Basically, the point of this argument is that even in the Quran itself and hadiths, Muhammad is less great than Jesus because Jesus was sinless and performed miracles, while Muhammad did neither. The fifth dilemma is called the "Uthman dilemma". This argument questions the claim that the Quran is perfectly preserved and unchanging. According to Sahih al-Bukhari 4987, Uthman burned a bunch of Qurans for being "unreliable." This creates a dilemma. How did he know which Quran was reliable without the divine messenger of Allah? This dilemma, in my opinion, is probably the weakest so far, but I digress. These are separate arguments not really dilemmas but point out contradictions in the Quran and Hadiths
1. Child marriage and Aisha. This is probably the most popular argument against Islam and is the hardest to defend if you live in the West and not some third-world shithole that still practices child marriage. Aisha was 6, Muhammad was 53.
2. Quran and Hadith contradictions. The first one is apostasy, which in the Quran is not punishable by death (Quran 2:256), but later hadiths claim it is (Bukhari 6922). Sharia law requires death for apostates, overriding the Quran and putting man-written text over the Holy and Inspired word of Allah.
3. The Quran, early on, not only affirmed pagan gods (the satanic verses) but was very peace orinated as Muhammad gained power, though it focused more on the sword and spreading the religion by force (Qur'an 9:5, Qur'an 9:29). The argument basically goes like this: Muhammad, once he gained power, overrode the earlier revelations of Allah, and became more power-hungry filled with murder and decite and became the very thing he preached against.
4. The Quran has multiple scientific errors, such as claiming the earth is flat (Qur'an 15:19, 79:30), claiming the sun sets in "murky water" (Qur'an 18:86), claiming humans are created from a blood clot (Qur'an 23:12-14), claiming mountains hold up the earth (Qur'an 78:6-7, 16:15), claiming salt and fresh water can never mix which is false (Qur'an 55:19-20), claiming sperm comes the spine (Qur'an 23:12-14).
5. The "angel" argument. Basically, the Bible in the New Testament warns of false prophets receiving messages from "angels of light" (2 Corinthians 11:14, Galatians 1:8-9). Muhammad received his revelation from an angel. The New Testament is very clear that Jesus was the fulfillment of the Messiah, meaning no prophets are needed after Him (Hebrews 1:1-2, John 14:6, Acts 3:22-23). And warns against false prophets receiving messages from "angels". Muhammad fits this category perfectly.
6. The "aorta" argument. Qur'an 69:44-46 states, "And if he had fabricated about Us some sayings, We would have seized him by the right hand; then We would have cut his aorta (or main artery); and there is no one of you who could prevent it." claiming that Muhammad, if he is lying about Allah, will have his aorta cut. Then, in a later Aishan Hadith, it states "The revelation comes to me like the ringing of a bell; sometimes it is so heavy that I feel as if my aorta is being cut." (Sahih Muslim 2316, Sahih Bukhari 7437). Muhammad literally said that he is lying, his aorta will be cut, then on his deathbed says, "I feel as if my aorta is being cut". Basically condemning himself and admitting he's a false prophet.
7. The crucifixion denial. According to Qur'an 4:157-158 Jesus was never crucified. This creates a lot of problems. The first one is that this simply is just false; there isn't a single non-Islamic source that claims this. Literally zero. Two, the Quran never says who replaced Jesus on the cross; it just says "another was made to resemble him". Three, why would God trick humanity, not only created the worlds largest religion but biggest threat to Islam? Fourth, this implies the resurrection never happens, which is also false because we have hundreds of witnesses and dozens of matyrs that went to their death preaching it. Five, if Jesus was never cruificed that He failed His mission on earth, which was to forgive humanity's sins and fulfill scripture. The Bible is very clear that a suffering servant will arise (Isaiah 53) and will die for humanity's sins (Psalm 22:16-18, Zechariah 12:10, Hosea 6:2, Psalm 32:1-2, Micah 7:18-19). If Jesus never did this, then how are humanity's sins forgiven? This means Allah just forgives sins without any justice or sacrifice. Islam basically believes in a purely works-based salvation because they have no savior who bore the sins of humanity.

 

[BrrBrrPatapimTralle]

@PrinceLuenLeoncur

 

[Histy]

Give TL'DR

 

[looksovernt]

@grok summarize

 

[ccwb]

The most popular dilemma is simply called "the Islamic dilemma." It can be summarized very easily. The Quran affirms the Bible; the Bible doesn't affirm the Quran (Surah Al-Ma'idah 5:44, Surah Al-Ma'idah 5:46, Galatians 1:8-9). This dilemma isn't new and can be dated back to the 8th century (George of B'eltan). The second dilemma I call the "love dilemma". This is more of a dilemma with non-Triune Gods in general, but the argument goes something like this: if God is love, then who does he love from eternity? In a Trinity, you have an eternal bond of love, the Father loves the Son, and the Holy Spirit is a bond of that love, but in a non-Triune God, it needs creation to love, meaning love is an attribute added to a non-Triune God after creation, which means God's attributes change with creation, which creates two dilemmas. 1. How can an eternal, unchanging God change with creation, and 2. How can God be love if love isn't a part of its identity? The third dilemma is similar to the first and is called the "talmudic dilemma." Basically, there is more than enough evidence to support the idea that the Quran copied some parts of the Talmud (Qur'an 21:51-67 - Avodah Zarah 54b, Qur'an 27:16-19 - Gittin 68b, Qur'an 2:30-34 -Sanhedrin 38b, Qur'an 21:68-70 - Pesachim 118a, Qur'an 2:31 - Chullin 60a). This creates a dilemma: not only does the Quran contradict the Talmud, but the Talmud is also not recognized in the Islamic canon. Creating a dilemma, how can an uninspired text make its way into the Quran? (Assuming the Quran is from God and eternal) Allah somehow made a mistake and used an uninspired, blasphemous text in his eternal, undying, and uncorrupted word or the Talmud is the inspired word of Allah not only does this make no sense because the Talmud says Isa or Jesus is burning in fecal matter in hell (Gittin 57a) but the Talmud spefically warns of a prophet that contradicts the Torah which fits Muhammad perfectly (Sanhedrin 90a). (Assuming the Quran is written) The writers of the Quran used an uninspired text that blasphemes prophets and warns of false prophets like Muhammad in the holy word of Allah, meaning the Quran is not perfect and is liable for mistakes, making it unreliable. The fourth dilemma I call the "miracles dilemma". It's pretty simple: According to the Quran Jesus performed miracles and was sinless (Qur'an 3:49, Qur'an 5:110, Qur'an 3:36, Qur'an 19:19). Muhammad, however, the final and greatest prophet, not only performed zero miracles (Qur'an 6:37, Qur'an 6:109, Qur'an 17:90-93), but also sinned (Qur'an 47:19, Qur'an 48:1-2, Qur'an 93:7, Qur'an 66:1) according to Sahih al-Bukhari 6307 Muhammad was sinning 70 times a day on average. Basically, the point of this argument is that even in the Quran itself and hadiths, Muhammad is less great than Jesus because Jesus was sinless and performed miracles, while Muhammad did neither. The fifth dilemma is called the "Uthman dilemma". This argument questions the claim that the Quran is perfectly preserved and unchanging. According to Sahih al-Bukhari 4987, Uthman burned a bunch of Qurans for being "unreliable." This creates a dilemma. How did he know which Quran was reliable without the divine messenger of Allah? This dilemma, in my opinion, is probably the weakest so far, but I digress. These are separate arguments not really dilemmas but point out contradictions in the Quran and Hadiths
1. Child marriage and Aisha. This is probably the most popular argument against Islam and is the hardest to defend if you live in the West and not some third-world shithole that still practices child marriage. Aisha was 6, Muhammad was 53.
2. Quran and Hadith contradictions. The first one is apostasy, which in the Quran is not punishable by death (Quran 2:256), but later hadiths claim it is (Bukhari 6922). Sharia law requires death for apostates, overriding the Quran and putting man-written text over the Holy and Inspired word of Allah.
3. The Quran, early on, not only affirmed pagan gods (the satanic verses) but was very peace orinated as Muhammad gained power, though it focused more on the sword and spreading the religion by force (Qur'an 9:5, Qur'an 9:29). The argument basically goes like this: Muhammad, once he gained power, overrode the earlier revelations of Allah, and became more power-hungry filled with murder and decite and became the very thing he preached against.
4. The Quran has multiple scientific errors, such as claiming the earth is flat (Qur'an 15:19, 79:30), claiming the sun sets in "murky water" (Qur'an 18:86), claiming humans are created from a blood clot (Qur'an 23:12-14), claiming mountains hold up the earth (Qur'an 78:6-7, 16:15), claiming salt and fresh water can never mix which is false (Qur'an 55:19-20), claiming sperm comes the spine (Qur'an 23:12-14).
5. The "angel" argument. Basically, the Bible in the New Testament warns of false prophets receiving messages from "angels of light" (2 Corinthians 11:14, Galatians 1:8-9). Muhammad received his revelation from an angel. The New Testament is very clear that Jesus was the fulfillment of the Messiah, meaning no prophets are needed after Him (Hebrews 1:1-2, John 14:6, Acts 3:22-23). And warns against false prophets receiving messages from "angels". Muhammad fits this category perfectly.
6. The "aorta" argument. Qur'an 69:44-46 states, "And if he had fabricated about Us some sayings, We would have seized him by the right hand; then We would have cut his aorta (or main artery); and there is no one of you who could prevent it." claiming that Muhammad, if he is lying about Allah, will have his aorta cut. Then, in a later Aishan Hadith, it states "The revelation comes to me like the ringing of a bell; sometimes it is so heavy that I feel as if my aorta is being cut." (Sahih Muslim 2316, Sahih Bukhari 7437). Muhammad literally said that he is lying, his aorta will be cut, then on his deathbed says, "I feel as if my aorta is being cut". Basically condemning himself and admitting he's a false prophet.
7. The crucifixion denial. According to Qur'an 4:157-158 Jesus was never crucified. This creates a lot of problems. The first one is that this simply is just false; there isn't a single non-Islamic source that claims this. Literally zero. Two, the Quran never says who replaced Jesus on the cross; it just says "another was made to resemble him". Three, why would God trick humanity, not only created the worlds largest religion but biggest threat to Islam? Fourth, this implies the resurrection never happens, which is also false because we have hundreds of witnesses and dozens of matyrs that went to their death preaching it. Five, if Jesus was never cruificed that He failed His mission on earth, which was to forgive humanity's sins and fulfill scripture. The Bible is very clear that a suffering servant will arise (Isaiah 53) and will die for humanity's sins (Psalm 22:16-18, Zechariah 12:10, Hosea 6:2, Psalm 32:1-2, Micah 7:18-19). If Jesus never did this, then how are humanity's sins forgiven? This means Allah just forgives sins without any justice or sacrifice. Islam basically believes in a purely works-based salvation because they have no savior who bore the sins of humanity.

Overused argument the Quran affirms the bible already debunked go to debate vids

 

[BrrBrrPatapimTralle]

Give TL'DR
View attachment 4535245

Here is a concise, neutral summary of the arguments presented, organized by theme rather than repetition of all citations:

---

Core “Dilemmas”​

1. Islamic Dilemma
   The Quran affirms the Bible as revelation, but the Bible explicitly rejects later revelations that contradict its gospel. This creates a tension: if the Bible is trustworthy, Islam is false; if it is corrupted, the Quran’s affirmation of it is problematic.
2. Love Dilemma (Trinity Argument)
   If God is eternally love, love must exist within God eternally. A Trinitarian God has eternal interpersonal love, while a non-Trinitarian God would require creation to express love, implying God’s attributes change or that love is not essential to God’s nature.
3. Talmudic Dilemma
   The Quran appears to parallel stories found in the Jewish Talmud, which Islam does not recognize as inspired and which contains material Islam would consider blasphemous. This raises the question of how uninspired or contradictory sources could appear in a supposedly eternal, perfect revelation.
4. Miracles Dilemma
   The Quran portrays Jesus as sinless and miracle-working, while Muhammad is depicted as sinful and performing no miracles. This raises the question of why Jesus appears superior to Islam’s final prophet.
5. Uthman Dilemma
   The burning of variant Qurans under Caliph Uthman challenges the claim of perfect, unchanged preservation, since it is unclear how textual reliability was determined without prophetic authority.

---

Additional Contradiction Arguments​

1. Child Marriage (Aisha)
   Muhammad’s marriage to Aisha at a young age is cited as morally indefensible by modern standards and difficult to reconcile with prophetic moral perfection.
2. Quran vs. Hadith Conflicts
   The Quran teaches religious freedom (e.g., no compulsion in religion), while later hadiths and Islamic law prescribe death for apostasy, elevating later tradition over the Quran.
3. Abrogation and Violence
   Early peaceful Quranic verses are argued to be overridden by later violent ones after Muhammad gained power, suggesting political rather than divine development.
4. Scientific Errors
   The Quran is claimed to contain incorrect statements about cosmology, embryology, geography, and natural phenomena, undermining divine authorship.
5. Angel of Light Argument
   The New Testament warns against false revelations delivered by angels and states Jesus is God’s final revelation. Muhammad receiving revelation from an angel is argued to fit this warning.
6. Aorta Argument
   The Quran says a false prophet would have his aorta cut; hadiths describe Muhammad feeling as if his aorta were being severed near death, interpreted as self-condemnation.
7. Crucifixion Denial
   The Quran denies Jesus’ crucifixion, contradicting all non-Islamic historical sources and undermining Christian theology of atonement, resurrection, and fulfilled prophecy. This leads to the claim that Islam lacks a coherent mechanism for divine justice and forgiveness.

---

Overall Claim​

Taken together, these arguments aim to show that Islam is internally inconsistent, historically unreliable, theologically inferior to Christianity, and incompatible with earlier biblical revelation.

If you want, I can:

• Compress this further into a one-paragraph summary
• Rewrite it in a formal academic tone
• Rewrite it as a debate outline or apologetics cheat sheet
• Or steelman the strongest Muslim responses to each point

 

[Bl0odKn1ght]

Bro, you need to seperate your text into multiple paragraphs, im not reading ts

 

[tomahawk]

The Qur'an doesn't affirm the bible, you should read the refutations to whatever you posted here.
Its easily refuted
Crucifixion isnt denied but claimed that they were just of thought it happened yet it didnt in relation to Jesus (alayhi salam)
The aorta argument was debunked so many times jfl
Death for apostates
Define apostates?
Child marriage is fake cuz the transmitter of the hadith is unreliable (Hisham ibn Urwa had memory issues when old)
She was 17 cuz her sister was 10 years older than her and was 27 when marriage

 

[Histy]

Here is a concise, neutral summary of the arguments presented, organized by theme rather than repetition of all citations:

---

Core “Dilemmas”​

1. Islamic Dilemma
   The Quran affirms the Bible as revelation, but the Bible explicitly rejects later revelations that contradict its gospel. This creates a tension: if the Bible is trustworthy, Islam is false; if it is corrupted, the Quran’s affirmation of it is problematic.
2. Love Dilemma (Trinity Argument)
   If God is eternally love, love must exist within God eternally. A Trinitarian God has eternal interpersonal love, while a non-Trinitarian God would require creation to express love, implying God’s attributes change or that love is not essential to God’s nature.
3. Talmudic Dilemma
   The Quran appears to parallel stories found in the Jewish Talmud, which Islam does not recognize as inspired and which contains material Islam would consider blasphemous. This raises the question of how uninspired or contradictory sources could appear in a supposedly eternal, perfect revelation.
4. Miracles Dilemma
   The Quran portrays Jesus as sinless and miracle-working, while Muhammad is depicted as sinful and performing no miracles. This raises the question of why Jesus appears superior to Islam’s final prophet.
5. Uthman Dilemma
   The burning of variant Qurans under Caliph Uthman challenges the claim of perfect, unchanged preservation, since it is unclear how textual reliability was determined without prophetic authority.

---

Additional Contradiction Arguments​

1. Child Marriage (Aisha)
   Muhammad’s marriage to Aisha at a young age is cited as morally indefensible by modern standards and difficult to reconcile with prophetic moral perfection.
2. Quran vs. Hadith Conflicts
   The Quran teaches religious freedom (e.g., no compulsion in religion), while later hadiths and Islamic law prescribe death for apostasy, elevating later tradition over the Quran.
3. Abrogation and Violence
   Early peaceful Quranic verses are argued to be overridden by later violent ones after Muhammad gained power, suggesting political rather than divine development.
4. Scientific Errors
   The Quran is claimed to contain incorrect statements about cosmology, embryology, geography, and natural phenomena, undermining divine authorship.
5. Angel of Light Argument
   The New Testament warns against false revelations delivered by angels and states Jesus is God’s final revelation. Muhammad receiving revelation from an angel is argued to fit this warning.
6. Aorta Argument
   The Quran says a false prophet would have his aorta cut; hadiths describe Muhammad feeling as if his aorta were being severed near death, interpreted as self-condemnation.
7. Crucifixion Denial
   The Quran denies Jesus’ crucifixion, contradicting all non-Islamic historical sources and undermining Christian theology of atonement, resurrection, and fulfilled prophecy. This leads to the claim that Islam lacks a coherent mechanism for divine justice and forgiveness.

---

Overall Claim​

Taken together, these arguments aim to show that Islam is internally inconsistent, historically unreliable, theologically inferior to Christianity, and incompatible with earlier biblical revelation.

If you want, I can:

• Compress this further into a one-paragraph summary
• Rewrite it in a formal academic tone
• Rewrite it as a debate outline or apologetics cheat sheet
• Or steelman the strongest Muslim responses to each point

Ok, bro, I won't argue with you .

Why tf did you use AI to give TL'DR

 

[tarkdriad33]

Dnr broski

 

[Histy]

The Qur'an doesn't affirm the bible, you should read the refutations to whatever you posted here.
Its easily refuted
Crucifixion isnt denied but claimed that they were just of thought it happened yet it didnt in relation to Jesus (alayhi salam)
The aorta argument was debunked so many times jfl
Death for apostates
Define apostates?
Child marriage is fake cuz the transmitter of the hadith is unreliable (Hisham ibn Urwa had memory issues when old)
She was 17 cuz her sister was 10 years older than her and was 27 when marriage

True Muslim

 

[BrrBrrPatapimTralle]

The Qur'an doesn't affirm the bible, you should read the refutations to whatever you posted here.
Its easily refuted
Crucifixion isnt denied but claimed that they were just of thought it happened yet it didnt in relation to Jesus (alayhi salam)
The aorta argument was debunked so many times jfl
Death for apostates
Define apostates?
Child marriage is fake cuz the transmitter of the hadith is unreliable (Hisham ibn Urwa had memory issues when old)
She was 17 cuz her sister was 10 years older than her and was 27 when marriage

Not christian just trying to generate conversation

 

[tomahawk]

True Muslim

Meh wouldn't argue with the guy
Lakum deenukum wa liya deen

 

[Light_Kira]

Meh wouldn't argue with the guy
Lakum deenukum wa liya deen

Are u a Salafi or nah?

 

[tomahawk]

Are u a Salafi or nah?

I don't like taqlid
I do not identify with Salafism

 

[StuntmanMike]

Not gonna read that shit is too long
Anyway Mo is certificated pedo and every muslims know this

 

[Light_Kira]

Child marriage is fake cuz the transmitter of the hadith is unreliable (Hisham ibn Urwa had memory issues when old)
She was 17 cuz her sister was 10 years older than her and was 27 when marriage

more then one hadith about her being 9 where she says it herself bro dont tell me ur claiming sahih narrations are weak now

https://sunnah.com/muslim:1422c

Sahih al-Bukhari 3894 - Merits of the Helpers in Madinah (Ansaar) - كتاب مناقب الأنصار - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) in English and Arabic

sunnah.com

and them having a age dif of 10 years isnt proven bro
stop trying to conform to kafir
Ideologies bra

 

[tomahawk]

more then one hadith about her being 9 where she says it herself bro dont tell me ur claiming sahih narrations are weak now

https://sunnah.com/muslim:1422c

Sahih al-Bukhari 3894 - Merits of the Helpers in Madinah (Ansaar) - كتاب مناقب الأنصار - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) in English and Arabic

sunnah.com

and them having a age dif of 10 years isnt proven bro
stop trying to conform to kafir
Ideologies bra

Brah show proof brah
Show chains of narrations then talk brah

 

[tomahawk]

more then one hadith about her being 9 where she says it herself bro dont tell me ur claiming sahih narrations are weak now

https://sunnah.com/muslim:1422c

Sahih al-Bukhari 3894 - Merits of the Helpers in Madinah (Ansaar) - كتاب مناقب الأنصار - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) in English and Arabic

sunnah.com

and them having a age dif of 10 years isnt proven bro
stop trying to conform to kafir
Ideologies bra

Age dif is completely proven

 

[Light_Kira]

I don't like taqlid
I do not identify with Salafism

Whats ur Aqeedah bra

 

[abzz]

The most popular dilemma is simply called "the Islamic dilemma." It can be summarized very easily. The Quran affirms the Bible; the Bible doesn't affirm the Quran (Surah Al-Ma'idah 5:44, Surah Al-Ma'idah 5:46, Galatians 1:8-9). This dilemma isn't new and can be dated back to the 8th century (George of B'eltan). The second dilemma I call the "love dilemma". This is more of a dilemma with non-Triune Gods in general, but the argument goes something like this: if God is love, then who does he love from eternity? In a Trinity, you have an eternal bond of love, the Father loves the Son, and the Holy Spirit is a bond of that love, but in a non-Triune God, it needs creation to love, meaning love is an attribute added to a non-Triune God after creation, which means God's attributes change with creation, which creates two dilemmas. 1. How can an eternal, unchanging God change with creation, and 2. How can God be love if love isn't a part of its identity? The third dilemma is similar to the first and is called the "talmudic dilemma." Basically, there is more than enough evidence to support the idea that the Quran copied some parts of the Talmud (Qur'an 21:51-67 - Avodah Zarah 54b, Qur'an 27:16-19 - Gittin 68b, Qur'an 2:30-34 -Sanhedrin 38b, Qur'an 21:68-70 - Pesachim 118a, Qur'an 2:31 - Chullin 60a). This creates a dilemma: not only does the Quran contradict the Talmud, but the Talmud is also not recognized in the Islamic canon. Creating a dilemma, how can an uninspired text make its way into the Quran? (Assuming the Quran is from God and eternal) Allah somehow made a mistake and used an uninspired, blasphemous text in his eternal, undying, and uncorrupted word or the Talmud is the inspired word of Allah not only does this make no sense because the Talmud says Isa or Jesus is burning in fecal matter in hell (Gittin 57a) but the Talmud spefically warns of a prophet that contradicts the Torah which fits Muhammad perfectly (Sanhedrin 90a). (Assuming the Quran is written) The writers of the Quran used an uninspired text that blasphemes prophets and warns of false prophets like Muhammad in the holy word of Allah, meaning the Quran is not perfect and is liable for mistakes, making it unreliable. The fourth dilemma I call the "miracles dilemma". It's pretty simple: According to the Quran Jesus performed miracles and was sinless (Qur'an 3:49, Qur'an 5:110, Qur'an 3:36, Qur'an 19:19). Muhammad, however, the final and greatest prophet, not only performed zero miracles (Qur'an 6:37, Qur'an 6:109, Qur'an 17:90-93), but also sinned (Qur'an 47:19, Qur'an 48:1-2, Qur'an 93:7, Qur'an 66:1) according to Sahih al-Bukhari 6307 Muhammad was sinning 70 times a day on average. Basically, the point of this argument is that even in the Quran itself and hadiths, Muhammad is less great than Jesus because Jesus was sinless and performed miracles, while Muhammad did neither. The fifth dilemma is called the "Uthman dilemma". This argument questions the claim that the Quran is perfectly preserved and unchanging. According to Sahih al-Bukhari 4987, Uthman burned a bunch of Qurans for being "unreliable." This creates a dilemma. How did he know which Quran was reliable without the divine messenger of Allah? This dilemma, in my opinion, is probably the weakest so far, but I digress. These are separate arguments not really dilemmas but point out contradictions in the Quran and Hadiths
1. Child marriage and Aisha. This is probably the most popular argument against Islam and is the hardest to defend if you live in the West and not some third-world shithole that still practices child marriage. Aisha was 6, Muhammad was 53.
2. Quran and Hadith contradictions. The first one is apostasy, which in the Quran is not punishable by death (Quran 2:256), but later hadiths claim it is (Bukhari 6922). Sharia law requires death for apostates, overriding the Quran and putting man-written text over the Holy and Inspired word of Allah.
3. The Quran, early on, not only affirmed pagan gods (the satanic verses) but was very peace orinated as Muhammad gained power, though it focused more on the sword and spreading the religion by force (Qur'an 9:5, Qur'an 9:29). The argument basically goes like this: Muhammad, once he gained power, overrode the earlier revelations of Allah, and became more power-hungry filled with murder and decite and became the very thing he preached against.
4. The Quran has multiple scientific errors, such as claiming the earth is flat (Qur'an 15:19, 79:30), claiming the sun sets in "murky water" (Qur'an 18:86), claiming humans are created from a blood clot (Qur'an 23:12-14), claiming mountains hold up the earth (Qur'an 78:6-7, 16:15), claiming salt and fresh water can never mix which is false (Qur'an 55:19-20), claiming sperm comes the spine (Qur'an 23:12-14).
5. The "angel" argument. Basically, the Bible in the New Testament warns of false prophets receiving messages from "angels of light" (2 Corinthians 11:14, Galatians 1:8-9). Muhammad received his revelation from an angel. The New Testament is very clear that Jesus was the fulfillment of the Messiah, meaning no prophets are needed after Him (Hebrews 1:1-2, John 14:6, Acts 3:22-23). And warns against false prophets receiving messages from "angels". Muhammad fits this category perfectly.
6. The "aorta" argument. Qur'an 69:44-46 states, "And if he had fabricated about Us some sayings, We would have seized him by the right hand; then We would have cut his aorta (or main artery); and there is no one of you who could prevent it." claiming that Muhammad, if he is lying about Allah, will have his aorta cut. Then, in a later Aishan Hadith, it states "The revelation comes to me like the ringing of a bell; sometimes it is so heavy that I feel as if my aorta is being cut." (Sahih Muslim 2316, Sahih Bukhari 7437). Muhammad literally said that he is lying, his aorta will be cut, then on his deathbed says, "I feel as if my aorta is being cut". Basically condemning himself and admitting he's a false prophet.
7. The crucifixion denial. According to Qur'an 4:157-158 Jesus was never crucified. This creates a lot of problems. The first one is that this simply is just false; there isn't a single non-Islamic source that claims this. Literally zero. Two, the Quran never says who replaced Jesus on the cross; it just says "another was made to resemble him". Three, why would God trick humanity, not only created the worlds largest religion but biggest threat to Islam? Fourth, this implies the resurrection never happens, which is also false because we have hundreds of witnesses and dozens of matyrs that went to their death preaching it. Five, if Jesus was never cruificed that He failed His mission on earth, which was to forgive humanity's sins and fulfill scripture. The Bible is very clear that a suffering servant will arise (Isaiah 53) and will die for humanity's sins (Psalm 22:16-18, Zechariah 12:10, Hosea 6:2, Psalm 32:1-2, Micah 7:18-19). If Jesus never did this, then how are humanity's sins forgiven? This means Allah just forgives sins without any justice or sacrifice. Islam basically believes in a purely works-based salvation because they have no savior who bore the sins of humanity.

you are so fucking retarded it hurts to read this shit. i would debunk these shitty arguments one by one, but i can tell you're a close minded retarded piece of shit who doesn't learn anything. you are the epitome of this:

 

[tomahawk]

Whats ur Aqeedah bra

I'm not of any certain creed

 

[tomahawk]

you are so fucking retarded it hurts to read this shit. i would debunk these shitty arguments one by one, but i can tell you're a close minded retarded piece of shit who doesn't learn anything. you are the epitome of this:

View attachment 4535492

I love you

 

[abzz]

I love you

i love you more akhi

 

[rynx]

Here is a concise, neutral summary of the arguments presented, organized by theme rather than repetition of all citations:

---

Core “Dilemmas”​

1. Islamic Dilemma
   The Quran affirms the Bible as revelation, but the Bible explicitly rejects later revelations that contradict its gospel. This creates a tension: if the Bible is trustworthy, Islam is false; if it is corrupted, the Quran’s affirmation of it is problematic.
2. Love Dilemma (Trinity Argument)
   If God is eternally love, love must exist within God eternally. A Trinitarian God has eternal interpersonal love, while a non-Trinitarian God would require creation to express love, implying God’s attributes change or that love is not essential to God’s nature.
3. Talmudic Dilemma
   The Quran appears to parallel stories found in the Jewish Talmud, which Islam does not recognize as inspired and which contains material Islam would consider blasphemous. This raises the question of how uninspired or contradictory sources could appear in a supposedly eternal, perfect revelation.
4. Miracles Dilemma
   The Quran portrays Jesus as sinless and miracle-working, while Muhammad is depicted as sinful and performing no miracles. This raises the question of why Jesus appears superior to Islam’s final prophet.
5. Uthman Dilemma
   The burning of variant Qurans under Caliph Uthman challenges the claim of perfect, unchanged preservation, since it is unclear how textual reliability was determined without prophetic authority.

---

Additional Contradiction Arguments​

1. Child Marriage (Aisha)
   Muhammad’s marriage to Aisha at a young age is cited as morally indefensible by modern standards and difficult to reconcile with prophetic moral perfection.
2. Quran vs. Hadith Conflicts
   The Quran teaches religious freedom (e.g., no compulsion in religion), while later hadiths and Islamic law prescribe death for apostasy, elevating later tradition over the Quran.
3. Abrogation and Violence
   Early peaceful Quranic verses are argued to be overridden by later violent ones after Muhammad gained power, suggesting political rather than divine development.
4. Scientific Errors
   The Quran is claimed to contain incorrect statements about cosmology, embryology, geography, and natural phenomena, undermining divine authorship.
5. Angel of Light Argument
   The New Testament warns against false revelations delivered by angels and states Jesus is God’s final revelation. Muhammad receiving revelation from an angel is argued to fit this warning.
6. Aorta Argument
   The Quran says a false prophet would have his aorta cut; hadiths describe Muhammad feeling as if his aorta were being severed near death, interpreted as self-condemnation.
7. Crucifixion Denial
   The Quran denies Jesus’ crucifixion, contradicting all non-Islamic historical sources and undermining Christian theology of atonement, resurrection, and fulfilled prophecy. This leads to the claim that Islam lacks a coherent mechanism for divine justice and forgiveness.

---

Overall Claim​

Taken together, these arguments aim to show that Islam is internally inconsistent, historically unreliable, theologically inferior to Christianity, and incompatible with earlier biblical revelation.

If you want, I can:

• Compress this further into a one-paragraph summary
• Rewrite it in a formal academic tone
• Rewrite it as a debate outline or apologetics cheat sheet
• Or steelman the strongest Muslim responses to each point

ts is still wayy too long

 

[Light_Kira]

Brah show proof brah
Show chains of narrations then talk brah

My nigga sahih muslim and sahih bukhari have been proofread by scholars for hundreds pf years bro this is ijma i showed u the chains of narrations ur ass wont know any of those guys
but bro the chains of narrations are in the link i sent but in arabic in those 2 i sent hashim guy isnt in them
hes still seen as a good narrator tho
Let me ask u this Is it a problem if The prophet saw married aisha at 9 if she reached puberty and mental maturity at that time?

Asma thing isnt proven my nigga
That is not proven in terms of the isnad or chain of narrators. If its isnad is proven, then it may be understood in a manner that is in accordance with the definitive evidence mentioned above.

With regard to the isnad or chain of narrators, it was narrated from ‘Abd ar-Rahman ibn Abi’z-Zinnad that he said: Asma bint Abi Bakr was ten years older than ‘Aishah.

This report was narrated via two isnads from al-Asma‘i from ‘Abd ar-Rahman ibn Abi’z-Zinnad.

The first isnad was narrated by Ibn ‘Asakir in Tarikh Dimashq (69/10). He said: Abu’l-Hasan ‘Ali ibn Ahmad al-Maliki told us: Ahmad ibn ‘Abd al-Wahid as-Sulami told us: My grandfather Abu Bakr told us: Abu Muhammad ibn Zabr told us: Ahmad ibn Sa‘d ibn Ibrahim az-Zuhri told us: Muhammad ibn Abi Safwan told us: al-Asma‘i told us, that Ibn Abi’z-Zinnad said: … and he quoted the report.

The second isnad was narrated by Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr in al-Isti‘ab fi Ma‘rifat al-Ashab (2/616): Ahmad ibn Qasim told us: Muhammad ibn Mu‘awiyah told us; Ibrahim ibn Musa ibn Jamil told us: Isma’i ibn Ishaq al-Qadi told us: Nasr ibn ‘Ali told us: al-Asma‘i told us: Ibn Abi’z-Zinnad told us: Asma bint Abi Bakr, who was ten years or so older than ‘Aishah, said:…

If the fair-minded researcher thinks about this report it will become clear to him that accepting its apparent meaning and rejecting all the proven evidence to the contrary is an offense against knowledge and scholarship, for the following reasons:

• ‘Abd ar-Rahman ibn Abi’z-Zinnad (100-174 AH) is the only one who stated that the difference in age between Asma and ‘Aishah (may Allah be pleased with them both) was ten years. The evidence mentioned above, on the other hand, is abundant and was narrated from more than one of the Tabi‘in. It is known that what is abundant takes precedence over that which is smaller.
• Most of the scholars regarded ‘Abd ar-Rahman ibn Abi’z-Zinnad himself as da‘if (weak). In his biography of him in Tahdhib al-Tahdhib (6/172), Imam Ahmad is quoted as saying concerning him: He is mudtarab al-hadith (his hadeeth is faulty). Ibn Ma‘in is quoted as saying: He is not one of those whom the scholars of hadith quote as evidence. ‘Ali ibn al-Madini is quoted as saying: Whatever he narrated in Madinah is sahih, but whatever he narrated in Baghdad was corrupted by the Baghdadis. I saw ‘Abd ar-Rahman – i.e., Ibn Mahdi – draw a line through the hadith of ‘Abd ar-Rahman ibn Abi’z-Zinnad. Abu Hatim said: His hadith may be written down but it may not be quoted as evidence. An-Nasai said: His hadith cannot be quoted as evidence.

With regard to at-Tirmidhi describing him as thiqah (trustworthy) in his Sunan, following hadith no. 1755, this contradicts the criticism of the previous commentator, and criticism (of a narrator) takes precedence over praise, especially with regard to the reports that were narrated only by ‘Abd ar-Rahman ibn Abi’z-Zinnad , especially when he says something that is contrary to what is well-known in the books of the Sunnah and history.

• According to the report of Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr, he said: “She (Asma) was ten years or so older than ‘Aishah.” This report is more sound than the report of Ibn ‘Asakir, because Nasr ibn ‘Ali, who narrated it from al-Asma‘i in the isnad of Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr is thiqah (trustworthy), as it says in Tahdhib al-Tahdhib, 10/431. With regard to Muhammad ibn Abi Safwan, the narrator from al-Asma‘i in the isnad of Ibn ‘Asakir, no one described him as trustworthy.

The words in the report of Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr, “or so”, indicate that he was not certain about (the difference in age) being ten years. This makes his report weak and it is not permissible for the fair-minded researcher to reject the evidence quoted above for the sake of this uncertainty.

• Moreover, it is possible to reconcile this report with the other reports by saying that Asma was born six years or five years before the Prophet’s mission began, and ‘Aishah was born four or five years after his mission began. When Asma died in 73 AH, she was ninety-one or ninety-two years old, as was mentioned by adh-Dhahabi in Siyar A‘lam an-Nubala, 3/380: Ibn Abi’z-Zinnad said: She was ten years older than ‘Aishah. I (adh-Dhahabi) say: Based on that, her age would have been ninety-one years. Hisham ibn ‘Urwah, on the other hand, said: She lived for one hundred years and not one of her teeth fell out. End quote.
• It may also be said that Asma was born approximately 14 years before the Prophet’s mission began – which is what is affirmed by the author himself in his previous article – and that in the year of the Hijrah she was twenty-seven years old, and her age at the time of her death in 73 AH was one hundred years, so as to be in harmony with what the historical sources are agreed upon with regard to Asma bint Abi Bakr, that she died in the same year in which her son ‘Abdullah ibn az-Zubayr was killed (73 AH), and that she died at the age of one hundred years. Hisham ibn ‘Urwah said, narrating from his father: Asma reached the age of one hundred years and not one of her teeth fell out and she remained alert all her life.

There follow the names of the sources that mention that:

• Hilyat al-Awliya, 2/56
• Mu‘jam as-Sahabah by Abi Na‘im al-Asbahani
• Al-Isti‘ab by Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr, 4/1783
• Tarikh Dimashq by Ibn ‘Asakir, 69/8
• Usd al-Ghabah by Ibn al-Athir, 7/12
• Al-Isabah by Ibn Hajar, 7/487
• Tahdhib al-Kamal, 35/125

With regard to the idea of her having been born ten years before the Prophet’s mission began, this was only stated by Abu Na‘im al-Asbahani, in a statement in which he said:

"She – i.e., Asma – was the sister of ‘Aishah through her father. She was older than ‘Aishah; she was born twenty-seven years before the Hijrah, and ten years before the mission of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) began. When she was born, her father (Abu Bakr) as-Siddiq was twenty-one years old. Asma died in 73 AH in Makkah, a few days after her son ‘Abdullah ibn az-Zubayr was killed, at the age of one hundred years, having lost her sight.”

It is as if Abu Na‘im meant that the Makkan period (of the Prophet’s mission) lasted for seventeen years, which is the view of some of the scholars of sirah; it is a da‘if (weak) view, but it should be pointed out when trying to understand the opinion of Abu Na‘im.

 

[Light_Kira]

I love you

you are so fucking retarded it hurts to read this shit. i would debunk these shitty arguments one by one, but i can tell you're a close minded retarded piece of shit who doesn't learn anything. you are the epitome of this:

View attachment 4535492

jfl at u akhis if u read even one molecule of ts

 

[larpslayer1488]

Muslims are so braindead

 

[Light_Kira]

I'm not of any certain creed

bro this reminds me of a ahmadi guy hiding him being a ahmadi tard just tell us what u believe bro

 

[abzz]

jfl at u akhis if u read even one molecule of ts

i read the first sentence and immediately wanted to kill myself

muhh islamic dilemma, quran affirms bible. just reused rewashed arguments, more used than a slut called tiffany at the club. fucking stupid cunt

 

[tomahawk]

Will read

My nigga sahih muslim and sahih bukhari have been proofread by scholars for hundreds pf years bro this is ijma i showed u the chains of narrations ur ass wont know any of those guys
but bro the chains of narrations are in the link i sent but in arabic in those 2 i sent hashim guy isnt in them
hes still seen as a good narrator tho
Let me ask u this Is it a problem if The prophet saw married aisha at 9 if she reached puberty and mental maturity at that time?

Asma thing isnt proven my nigga
That is not proven in terms of the isnad or chain of narrators. If its isnad is proven, then it may be understood in a manner that is in accordance with the definitive evidence mentioned above.

With regard to the isnad or chain of narrators, it was narrated from ‘Abd ar-Rahman ibn Abi’z-Zinnad that he said: Asma bint Abi Bakr was ten years older than ‘Aishah.

This report was narrated via two isnads from al-Asma‘i from ‘Abd ar-Rahman ibn Abi’z-Zinnad.

The first isnad was narrated by Ibn ‘Asakir in Tarikh Dimashq (69/10). He said: Abu’l-Hasan ‘Ali ibn Ahmad al-Maliki told us: Ahmad ibn ‘Abd al-Wahid as-Sulami told us: My grandfather Abu Bakr told us: Abu Muhammad ibn Zabr told us: Ahmad ibn Sa‘d ibn Ibrahim az-Zuhri told us: Muhammad ibn Abi Safwan told us: al-Asma‘i told us, that Ibn Abi’z-Zinnad said: … and he quoted the report.

The second isnad was narrated by Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr in al-Isti‘ab fi Ma‘rifat al-Ashab (2/616): Ahmad ibn Qasim told us: Muhammad ibn Mu‘awiyah told us; Ibrahim ibn Musa ibn Jamil told us: Isma’i ibn Ishaq al-Qadi told us: Nasr ibn ‘Ali told us: al-Asma‘i told us: Ibn Abi’z-Zinnad told us: Asma bint Abi Bakr, who was ten years or so older than ‘Aishah, said:…

If the fair-minded researcher thinks about this report it will become clear to him that accepting its apparent meaning and rejecting all the proven evidence to the contrary is an offense against knowledge and scholarship, for the following reasons:

• ‘Abd ar-Rahman ibn Abi’z-Zinnad (100-174 AH) is the only one who stated that the difference in age between Asma and ‘Aishah (may Allah be pleased with them both) was ten years. The evidence mentioned above, on the other hand, is abundant and was narrated from more than one of the Tabi‘in. It is known that what is abundant takes precedence over that which is smaller.
• Most of the scholars regarded ‘Abd ar-Rahman ibn Abi’z-Zinnad himself as da‘if (weak). In his biography of him in Tahdhib al-Tahdhib (6/172), Imam Ahmad is quoted as saying concerning him: He is mudtarab al-hadith (his hadeeth is faulty). Ibn Ma‘in is quoted as saying: He is not one of those whom the scholars of hadith quote as evidence. ‘Ali ibn al-Madini is quoted as saying: Whatever he narrated in Madinah is sahih, but whatever he narrated in Baghdad was corrupted by the Baghdadis. I saw ‘Abd ar-Rahman – i.e., Ibn Mahdi – draw a line through the hadith of ‘Abd ar-Rahman ibn Abi’z-Zinnad. Abu Hatim said: His hadith may be written down but it may not be quoted as evidence. An-Nasai said: His hadith cannot be quoted as evidence.

With regard to at-Tirmidhi describing him as thiqah (trustworthy) in his Sunan, following hadith no. 1755, this contradicts the criticism of the previous commentator, and criticism (of a narrator) takes precedence over praise, especially with regard to the reports that were narrated only by ‘Abd ar-Rahman ibn Abi’z-Zinnad , especially when he says something that is contrary to what is well-known in the books of the Sunnah and history.

• According to the report of Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr, he said: “She (Asma) was ten years or so older than ‘Aishah.” This report is more sound than the report of Ibn ‘Asakir, because Nasr ibn ‘Ali, who narrated it from al-Asma‘i in the isnad of Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr is thiqah (trustworthy), as it says in Tahdhib al-Tahdhib, 10/431. With regard to Muhammad ibn Abi Safwan, the narrator from al-Asma‘i in the isnad of Ibn ‘Asakir, no one described him as trustworthy.

The words in the report of Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr, “or so”, indicate that he was not certain about (the difference in age) being ten years. This makes his report weak and it is not permissible for the fair-minded researcher to reject the evidence quoted above for the sake of this uncertainty.

• Moreover, it is possible to reconcile this report with the other reports by saying that Asma was born six years or five years before the Prophet’s mission began, and ‘Aishah was born four or five years after his mission began. When Asma died in 73 AH, she was ninety-one or ninety-two years old, as was mentioned by adh-Dhahabi in Siyar A‘lam an-Nubala, 3/380: Ibn Abi’z-Zinnad said: She was ten years older than ‘Aishah. I (adh-Dhahabi) say: Based on that, her age would have been ninety-one years. Hisham ibn ‘Urwah, on the other hand, said: She lived for one hundred years and not one of her teeth fell out. End quote.
• It may also be said that Asma was born approximately 14 years before the Prophet’s mission began – which is what is affirmed by the author himself in his previous article – and that in the year of the Hijrah she was twenty-seven years old, and her age at the time of her death in 73 AH was one hundred years, so as to be in harmony with what the historical sources are agreed upon with regard to Asma bint Abi Bakr, that she died in the same year in which her son ‘Abdullah ibn az-Zubayr was killed (73 AH), and that she died at the age of one hundred years. Hisham ibn ‘Urwah said, narrating from his father: Asma reached the age of one hundred years and not one of her teeth fell out and she remained alert all her life.

There follow the names of the sources that mention that:

• Hilyat al-Awliya, 2/56
• Mu‘jam as-Sahabah by Abi Na‘im al-Asbahani
• Al-Isti‘ab by Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr, 4/1783
• Tarikh Dimashq by Ibn ‘Asakir, 69/8
• Usd al-Ghabah by Ibn al-Athir, 7/12
• Al-Isabah by Ibn Hajar, 7/487
• Tahdhib al-Kamal, 35/125

With regard to the idea of her having been born ten years before the Prophet’s mission began, this was only stated by Abu Na‘im al-Asbahani, in a statement in which he said:

"She – i.e., Asma – was the sister of ‘Aishah through her father. She was older than ‘Aishah; she was born twenty-seven years before the Hijrah, and ten years before the mission of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) began. When she was born, her father (Abu Bakr) as-Siddiq was twenty-one years old. Asma died in 73 AH in Makkah, a few days after her son ‘Abdullah ibn az-Zubayr was killed, at the age of one hundred years, having lost her sight.”

It is as if Abu Na‘im meant that the Makkan period (of the Prophet’s mission) lasted for seventeen years, which is the view of some of the scholars of sirah; it is a da‘if (weak) view, but it should be pointed out when trying to understand the opinion of Abu Na‘im.

 

[tomahawk]

bro this reminds me of a ahmadi guy hiding him being a ahmadi tard just tell us what u believe bro

I believe God is one it's hard to elaborate
I do not agree with the Asharis and the Maturidis nor do I with Atharis

 

[abzz]

nor do I with Atharis

interesting, how come?

 

[tomahawk]

i read the first sentence and immediately wanted to kill myself

muhh islamic dilemma, quran affirms bible. just reused rewashed arguments, more used than a slut called tiffany at the club. fucking stupid cunt

Hes not the op tard..

 

[Light_Kira]

i read the first sentence and immediately wanted to kill myself

muhh islamic dilemma, quran affirms bible. just reused rewashed arguments, more used than a slut called tiffany at the club. fucking stupid cunt

CHortisol spike

Will read

rep me or pm me i dont wanna lose more i just want a 2x rep ratio

I believe God is one it's hard to elaborate
I do not agree with the Asharis and the Maturidis nor do I with Atharis

Do u believe Allah being above the throne is a literal thing or meant metaphorically

 

[tomahawk]

Do u believe Allah being above the throne is a literal thing or meant metaphorically

Partial
Unsure

 

[abzz]

Muslims are so braindead

https://looksmax.org/threads/how-do-yall-even-make-friends.1819801/

maybe this is why you can't make friends, because of the hatred in your heart. enjoy being a retarded loser jew

 

[abzz]

Hes not the op tard..

i know i know hahaa, i was referring to op as a cunt, not the dude

 

[Light_Kira]

Partial
Unsure

do u believe aisha being 9 years old while marrying the prophet saw is wrong and pedo action or allowed if she reached puberty and mental maturity

 

[Light_Kira]

Hes not the op tard..

i think he knows bro

 

[tomahawk]

do u believe aisha being 9 years old while marrying the prophet saw is wrong and pedo action or allowed if she reached puberty and mental maturity

If Allah allows it then why bother

 

[Light_Kira]

If Allah allows it then why bother

but do u believe he does or not

 

[unknownincel]

dnr

 

[larpslayer1488]

https://looksmax.org/threads/how-do-yall-even-make-friends.1819801/

maybe this is why you can't make friends, because of the hatred in your heart. enjoy being a retarded loser jew

i'm just being honest and if that's why i can't make friends then be it. i'm not tryna act all kind and buddy buddies with someone that follows someone who groomed and raped a 6 year old

 

[abzz]

i'm just being honest and if that's why i can't make friends then be it. i'm not tryna act all kind and buddy buddies with someone that follows someone who groomed and raped a 6 year old

I mean, this debate is pointless with people that are your kind. but ill ask you. what's your definition of rape?

 

[tomahawk]

but do u believe he does or not

No its not pedo

 

[larpslayer1488]

I mean, this debate is pointless with people that are your kind. but ill ask you. what's your definition of rape?

people who cant or don't consent being forced/groomed into sex

 

[abzz]

people who cant or don't consent being forced/groomed into sex

correct, and do you have proof that there was no consent / force?

 

[larpslayer1488]

correct, and do you have proof that there was no consent / force?

A child at 6 lacks the cognitive and emotional capacity for valid consent. At that age, kids are highly susceptible to grooming, they trust adults easily, can't fully understand intentions, and are vulnerable to power imbalances and manipulation. Reflecting on your own childhood at 6 shows how easy it would be to fool or influence a child.
True informed consent requires sufficient brain maturity, especially in the prefrontal cortex for understanding consequences and resisting manipulation

 

[abzz]

A child at 6 lacks the cognitive and emotional capacity for valid consent. At that age, kids are highly susceptible to grooming, they trust adults easily, can't fully understand intentions, and are vulnerable to power imbalances and manipulation. Reflecting on your own childhood at 6 shows how easy it would be to fool or influence a child.
True informed consent requires sufficient brain maturity, especially in the prefrontal cortex for understanding consequences and resisting manipulation

you can't assume that lmao. there are plenty of adults who aren't mentally fit to consent, and who are easily fooled/manipulated by greater society. you can clearly see from historical records that aish R.A was smarter than both me and you, let's be honest

i think that you're just trying to place modern societal norms, mixed with some hasty generalisation, on a very specific situation that occurred 1400+ years ago jfl