My ES ratio is even less than I thought

[Deleted member 1901]

I thought it was 0.45, now I’d need and increase of 0.06 ES to have the ideal

 

[Deleted member 23115]

now i understand why u have that avi

 

[Deleted member 1901]

now i understand why u have that avi

Why? Fogger ES ratio? I’m autistic, so I don’t understand what you mean.

 

[Deleted member 23115]

Why? Fogger ES ratio? I’m autistic, so I don’t understand what you mean.

ethnics are obsessed with the blondest women thats why they even like average ones

 

[Deleted member 26642]

Fucking brutal, low ipd is a key part of a beta male pheno

 

[Deleted member 1901]

ethnics are obsessed with the blondest women thats why they even like average ones

Average? She’s a fogger aryan Afghani girl with hunter eyes and perfect coloring. I agree bones are average but average bones is more feminine than the robust tranny-looking woMEN a lot of users worship.
also, young blonde Aryan girls > all other girls

 

[Deleted member 1901]

Fucking brutal, low ipd is a key part of a beta male pheno

How can cyclopscels cope? Brutal.

 

[Octavian_Augustus]

Glad you have freed yourself from your delusions of a 0.45 ESR. There is only one solution: OBO.

 

[Deleted member 24427]

If it was 0.45 it wouldnt look so small, you measured wrong before somehow
Widen palate it can increase the ipd by a Lil not significant tho
Or if you are gay you can use mascara to make the long cat like eyes it can give illusion of good ipd jfl

 

[FrenchChad]

Glad you have freed yourself from your delusions of a 0.45 ESR. There is only one solution: OBO.

Absolutely not, he can get zygos shaving and a noticeable increase from bad to decent, OBO is a pipe dream for most people and it's aesthetical tradeoffs (severe bone assymetries for instance) and risks makes this surgery worth it only if you have extreme measurements (+70mm or sub 59mm).

I would recommand MSE first; slow expansion chewing along could give you 1-2mm which would be a good improvement, and then if it's bad Zygos shaving, OBO if you really want it but it's not like you were severely deformed, you just have a common facial flaws and the two things listed above should partially fix your problem.

 

[FrenchChad]

Also considering the fact that your zygos are wider than your temples zygo shaving would perfectly works (you seem to have a mongoloid skull, it doesn't always work the same way on caucasian ones).
Even if you will age badly tho

 

[Octavian_Augustus]

Absolutely not, he can get zygos shaving and a noticeable increase from bad to decent, OBO is a pipe dream for most people and it's aesthetical tradeoffs (severe bone assymetries for instance) and risks makes this surgery worth it only if you have extreme measurements (+70mm or sub 59mm).

I would recommand MSE first; slow expansion chewing along could give you 1-2mm which would be a good improvement, and then if it's bad Zygos shaving, OBO if you really want it but it's not like you were severely deformed, you just have a common facial flaws and the two things listed above should partially fix your problem.

Even if he shaves zygos to match temples he will have ~0.435 per my measurements and calculations.

MSE will increase his IPD by a very marginal amount (maybe 1mm) which wouldn't be bad if it didn't also increase facial width and nasal width (countering to a certain extent the impact of the IPD increase and making his large nose even larger)

He doesn't need to fix this flaw obviously. But if he wanted to he'd need an OBO. Even then his PFL is quite low so it wouldn't be a perfect fix.

In terms of the side effects of OBO there is a level of complexity in that procedure that I think most of us don't have the expertise to comment on. Hypertelorism OBOs with vast reductions in IPD have led to complications, deformities etc but have also turned out fine in some cases. Smaller OBOs for expansion on non-deformed patients have led to totally different outcomes and is said to lead to more aesthetic results.

I'm personally interested in this procedure (I have 63mm IPD on 145mm face so a 0.435 ESR) and will go through consults to learn more about it. Hopefully it won't be a pipe-dream forever.

 

[FrenchChad]

Even if he shaves zygos to match temples he will have ~0.435 per my measurements and calculations.

MSE will increase his IPD by a very marginal amount (maybe 1mm) which wouldn't be bad if it didn't also increase facial width and nasal width (countering to a certain extent the impact of the IPD increase and making his large nose even larger)

He doesn't need to fix this flaw obviously. But if he wanted to he'd need an OBO. Even then his PFL is quite low so it wouldn't be a perfect fix.

In terms of the side effects of OBO there is a level of complexity in that procedure that I think most of us don't have the expertise to comment on. Hypertelorism OBOs with vast reductions in IPD have led to complications, deformities etc but have also turned out fine in some cases. Smaller OBOs for expansion on non-deformed patients have led to totally different outcomes and is said to lead to more aesthetic results.

I'm personally interested in this procedure (I have 63mm IPD on 145mm face so a 0.435 ESR) and will go through consults to learn more about it. Hopefully it won't be a pipe-dream forever.

For his temples he could still hair fraud, as for his zygos simply taking up to 3-4mm each side could bring him from bad to decent (e.g : 63/145 = 0.43 and 63/(145-8) = 0.45) with ratios it's always more important to not be in the extremes than to have a perfect ideal value.

Combined with chewing and slow expansion he could hope to get a 2mm increase (since masseters are linked with the zygomatico-maxillary complex which would be widened by chewing once the sutures are broken) and you have to heavily consider that he is not an adult and is upper maxilla is thus much more malleable.
Sure once the expansion is done he could get Zygos shaving and rhino which are both infinitely less expensive and risky than OBO and combined with the IPD increase from MSE he would have a good es ratio, add hair fraud to that and minox on the outer parts of the eyebrows and that's closed.

And 1mm is not marginal at all, IPD and philtrum length are the two main measurements where the "few mm" applies the most, 2mm would make a huge difference.


OBO does touch the optical nerves and there was unfortunately severely cases of partial or total blindness, which is the bigger risk of this surgery, obviously most cases don't end up blind but it's a risk to consider nevertheless, the thing is that when you are heavily deformed and your life have been utter shit since birth the risk and the aesthetical tradeoffs are worth it, they aren't when you are facially a normie who could eventually get some beckys by bodymaxxing and ntmaxxing.

As for the smaller OBO's for aesthetic results i've seen only two people doing it and the sample is really too low to make a proper analysis tbh, very few people have done an OBO for cosmetic reasons yet even if it's growing i've seen only two cases so far here and on lookism.

 

[Deleted member 24333]

Fucking brutal, low ipd is a key part of a beta male pheno

High ipd is way more beta

 

[Deleted member 21048]

I don't know my ratios but probably deformed in all of them

 

[Deleted member 1901]

For his temples he could still hair fraud, as for his zygos simply taking up to 3-4mm each side could bring him from bad to decent (e.g : 63/145 = 0.43 and 63/(145-8) = 0.45) with ratios it's always more important to not be in the extremes than to have a perfect ideal value.

Combined with chewing and slow expansion he could hope to get a 2mm increase (since masseters are linked with the zygomatico-maxillary complex which would be widened by chewing once the sutures are broken) and you have to heavily consider that he is not an adult and is upper maxilla is thus much more malleable.
Sure once the expansion is done he could get Zygos shaving and rhino which are both infinitely less expensive and risky than OBO and combined with the IPD increase from MSE he would have a good es ratio, add hair fraud to that and minox on the outer parts of the eyebrows and that's closed.

And 1mm is not marginal at all, IPD and philtrum length are the two main measurements where the "few mm" applies the most, 2mm would make a huge difference.


OBO does touch the optical nerves and there was unfortunately severely cases of partial or total blindness, which is the bigger risk of this surgery, obviously most cases don't end up blind but it's a risk to consider nevertheless, the thing is that when you are heavily deformed and your life have been utter shit since birth the risk and the aesthetical tradeoffs are worth it, they aren't when you are facially a normie who could eventually get some beckys by bodymaxxing and ntmaxxing.

As for the smaller OBO's for aesthetic results i've seen only two people doing it and the sample is really too low to make a proper analysis tbh, very few people have done an OBO for cosmetic reasons yet even if it's growing i've seen only two cases so far here and on lookism.

I don’t know if chewing will work but I’m doing towel clenching rn so I’ll see if it does anything

 

[Deleted member 26642]

High ipd is way more beta

Depends how high, slightly over ideal mogs slightly below

 

[FrenchChad]

I don’t know if chewing will work but I’m doing towel clenching rn so I’ll see if it does anything

Masseter insertions are located in the upper maxilla part which is responsible for IPD; with towel clenching (also you do it only on one side iirc) you are simply changing the projection of the maxilla if anything not his width which is what affect ipd.

 

[Octavian_Augustus]

For his temples he could still hair fraud, as for his zygos simply taking up to 3-4mm each side could bring him from bad to decent (e.g : 63/145 = 0.43 and 63/(145-8) = 0.45) with ratios it's always more important to not be in the extremes than to have a perfect ideal value.

Combined with chewing and slow expansion he could hope to get a 2mm increase (since masseters are linked with the zygomatico-maxillary complex which would be widened by chewing once the sutures are broken) and you have to heavily consider that he is not an adult and is upper maxilla is thus much more malleable.
Sure once the expansion is done he could get Zygos shaving and rhino which are both infinitely less expensive and risky than OBO and combined with the IPD increase from MSE he would have a good es ratio, add hair fraud to that and minox on the outer parts of the eyebrows and that's closed.

And 1mm is not marginal at all, IPD and philtrum length are the two main measurements where the "few mm" applies the most, 2mm would make a huge difference.


OBO does touch the optical nerves and there was unfortunately severely cases of partial or total blindness, which is the bigger risk of this surgery, obviously most cases don't end up blind but it's a risk to consider nevertheless, the thing is that when you are heavily deformed and your life have been utter shit since birth the risk and the aesthetical tradeoffs are worth it, they aren't when you are facially a normie who could eventually get some beckys by bodymaxxing and ntmaxxing.

As for the smaller OBO's for aesthetic results i've seen only two people doing it and the sample is really too low to make a proper analysis tbh, very few people have done an OBO for cosmetic reasons yet even if it's growing i've seen only two cases so far here and on lookism.

Constant hair frauding is not a viable solution.

There is no way he gets to 0.45 with zygos shaving until zygos = temples (you don't want to go lower than that). I measured he'd get to 0.435 from 0.43. Shaving 4mm on each side is massive and unrealistic (also you are using my measurements which are slightly better than his) Also from what I've seen even 0.45 ESR suffers from some mild aesthetic degradation. 0.46-0.465 is slightly better.

In general increasing IPD has a much more meaningful impact on this ratio than reducing facial width (which also reduces fwhr) 2mm expansion with MSE is huge I don't know if that's achievable. That would make a big difference though. Idk if the verdict is out on MSE actually increasing IPD I thought that had been debunked on this website as a cope. Do you have sources? Even though might be slightly offset if your face gets wider.

Agreed that OBO is no joke. Even if your ESR is sub-optimal you don't need to get it. But in theory if you were obsessed and determined to fix your eye spacing issue I don't see much of an alternative (especially in cases where your ESR is 0.43 or below. If your ESR was 0.448 and you had massive zygos you could maybe just go for zygos shaving) There are sub-cranial modifications that are less dangerous. I've seen 4 cases of mild expansion and they looked mostly good. The risk for blindness is there (all surgeries carry risk, your artery can get sliced during bimax, you can get brain bleed during rhino, can die from lipo. If you are afraid of these surgeries are not for you) but marginal, and probably much more marginal if you aren't deformed, are going for mild expansion, and have a competent doctor.

There probably are more people out there who have done cosmetic OBOs but haven't made it public. Only solution is to get doctors' opinions on the matter as they probably know best.

 

[FrenchChad]

High ipd is way more beta

It's the opposite, a high es ratio is much more forgivable than a low one
In the first case you'll look alien at worst feminine at best, sometimes if you have the skull for it a wide ipd can brings your aesthetic to a whole next level (see Jordan Barrett, Elias de Poot, Gandy..)
On the other hand the latter looks low iq and inbred.

 

[FrenchChad]

Constant hair frauding is not a viable solution.

There is no way he gets to 0.45 with zygos shaving until zygos = temples (you don't want to go lower than that). I measured he'd get to 0.435 from 0.43. Shaving 4mm on each side is massive and unrealistic (also you are using my measurements which are slightly better than his) Also from what I've seen even 0.45 ESR suffers from some mild aesthetic degradation. 0.46-0.465 is slightly better.

In general increasing IPD has a much more meaningful impact on this ratio than reducing facial width (which also reduces fwhr) 2mm expansion with MSE is huge I don't know if that's achievable. That would make a big difference though. Idk if the verdict is out on MSE actually increasing IPD I thought that had been debunked on this website as a cope. Do you have sources? Even though might be slightly offset if your face gets wider.

Agreed that OBO is no joke. Even if your ESR is sub-optimal you don't need to get it. But in theory if you were obsessed and determined to fix your eye spacing issue I don't see much of an alternative (especially in cases where your ESR is 0.43 or below. If your ESR was 0.448 and you had massive zygos you could maybe just go for zygos shaving) There are sub-cranial modifications that are less dangerous. I've seen 4 cases of mild expansion and they looked mostly good. The risk for blindness is there (all surgeries carry risk, your artery can get sliced during bimax, you can get brain bleed during rhino, can die from lipo. If you are afraid of these surgeries are not for you) but marginal, and probably much more marginal if you aren't deformed, are going for mild expansion, and have a competent doctor.

There probably are more people out there who have done cosmetic OBOs but haven't made it public. Only solution is to get doctors' opinions on the matter as they probably know best.

1mm of ipd expansion have been commonly reported by people who got MSE, 2mm is not MSE alone it's MSE combined with all the things that i've mentioned (some members here like Mark Corrigan, SayNoToRotting and another dude claimed that their IPD widened after several months (one year for Mark Corrigan) of constant chewing alone), which theoretically makes sense even in adult since our bones keep remodeling and the broke of the suture would facilitate this.
There was a thread on it right here : https://looksmax.org/threads/mse-chewing-widens-the-ipd-upper-maxilla.214593/

Hair frauding is legit, at least you can keep it for your prime years (teen years to mid-twenties), although i do agree that you don't want to get your zygos narrower than your temples.

0.45 is good, not ideal but good, you have to keep in mind that it's all about averageness, this is why as long as you are not in the extremes not having ideal ratios won't hurt you by much, the only thing that will really make a difference between a .45 and a .46 eye area is not that mere 0.1 difference in ES ratio but the features of the said eye area.

Sure, and there is a shit ton of LF3 results who looks really good after also, but the aesthetical tradeoffs (bone assymetries which can be quite severe but are worth it when you are deformed) and the risks makes it not really worth it imo, although if you get a good surgeon it could end up well without any blindness and a good esr at the end of the day, if you get it i hope that you'll be fine, and iirc the prevalence of blindness and optical nerve damage was not high but not marginal either even if yes obviously all surgeries carry risk; but again it's all about pros and cons; if the benefits outweight the risks and in the case of extreme surgeries like LF3 or OBO they don't most of the time unfortunately.

 

[Deleted member 21252]

My es ratio is perfect .457 which is basically .46 but my eyes are 1.315 apart and it pisses me off so much

 

[Deleted member 27219]

Average? She’s a fogger aryan Afghani girl with hunter eyes and perfect coloring. I agree bones are average but average bones is more feminine than the robust tranny-looking woMEN a lot of users worship.
also, young blonde Aryan girls > all other girls

Preach brother, preach

 

[BongMog]

Jesus Christ you have insane temporals , maybe that's why it looks worse

 

[Alton]

I thought it was 0.45, now I’d need and increase of 0.06 ES to have the ideal
View attachment 2110352

Likewise, friend. I also now realize that I need better "PFL" as well.