Agentof Evolution
Iron
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2020
- Posts
- 112
- Reputation
- 76
Ok, so I’m going to lay out my plans to improve my looks. I’m being careful to avoid the word ‘ascension’, as I’ve long accepted that I’m never going to look like a male model. My goal is humbler. Look as good as I can, even if this means just looking above average.
Currently, my face is plagued with problem. But, mostly noticeably, really bad retrogenia (I measured it at about 12mm recessed!).
Initially, I contacted as many surgeons in my area (Scotland) as I could. They were ALL garbage! Every single one of them just offered me an ‘off-the-shelf’ chin implant. I think it’s fair to say that no surgeon should be trying to tackle 12mms of recession with a standard chin implant.
Consequently, I expanded my search into England, which basically meant London. Most ignored my messages, I think they expected me to just pay around £200 (that’s an average, and around $260) for a consultation and then jump on a train for 13 hours total (6.5 hours there and 6.5 hours back) for a 10 minutes chat where they could say, ‘You need a sliding genioplasty which I can do’. Luckily, one surgeon replied to me. We spoke on the phone and he suggested I come down to London for facial analysis where he could use 3D imaging to assess the area and treatment. Sounded good.
When I arrived at consultation, the surgeon had a laptop and a standard camera. No 3D imaging was used, unless that’s what he calls using his camera to take phones from different angles. I’ll summarise the consultation and following weeks of email correspondence into a few bullet points:
- The surgeon thought my face was fine in the front view, and only my profile needed adjustment.
-We spoke a little about jaw surgery. I’ve copied and pasted his final opinion on this matter from one of his emails:
‘you've only got a slight anterior open bite. In that regard, I do not think combining the genioplasty with orthognathic surgery will really be of any significant benefit’
- I’m a little bit sceptical of his view on jaw surgery as I know he doesn’t perform it. Thus, he has a financial incentive to push a sliding genioplasty.
- I asked about jaw implants to create jaw angles. Initially, he told me that he didn’t think I needed any jaw enhancement as he felt my jaw was “wide enough” and thus “perfectly fine”. This was a good sign, as it showed that he wasn’t just trying to push multiple surgeries to make more money.
- I had no intention of making my jaw wider. Rather, I was thinking about making my jaw lower. Once this was explained, he said I could do this. However, he suggested that I have a sliding genioplasty on its own, wait for it to completely heal, and then reassess my face and the need for further surgery.
- He felt that the overall facial harmony produced by a sliding genioplasty would be so positive that it would negate any desire for further surgery. I thought this was also a good sign.
This is when things went a bit wrong.
My own measurements indicate I’m about 12mm recessed. Eppley saw my profile picture and suggested I needed, ‘12mms or more’ forward advancement. The surgeon from London initially suggested:
‘The vertical length of your chin is satisfactory, though you also present with retrognathia. A sliding genioplasty with a 10mm advancement would certainly provide the facial balance and harmony that you are seeking.’
I asked for morphs, then the following happened:
Reply 1: ‘I am also sending you images from the 3D analysis’- I was still guessing this was his terminology for taking photos.
No images arrived, so I asked again:
Reply 2: ‘I will resend the images, - no problem’
Still no images arrived, so I asked again:
Reply 3: ‘I do not seem to have your 3D images’ and ‘Do you recall if I took 3D images on the day when we did the consultation?’
A few months later (once I had the money saved) I contacted him to say I could now afford the surgery but would need more details before moving forward. He told that under normal circumstances I would need to return to London to make some measurements since he didn’t have any. However, this was unnecessary in my case as I simply needed the maximum genio advancement which was 10mm. I’m pretty confident this is not the max movement. Even if it was (due to a small jaw), there are ways to get extra mm’s, i.e. chin implant overlay, combine the genio with jaw surgery. He’s tried to defend the 10mm movement by saying that the soft tissue adaptation is unpredictable following a genio, so there needs to be a 2mm error.
Also, his new recommendation was, ‘advancement of 10mm, with a vertical lengthening of the chin by 3mm’. I don’t know where the 3mm came from since he previously said the ‘vertical length of your chin is satisfactory’, and I don’t know how he performed any calculations without any images/ measurements, etc?!!
I’ve since lost a bit of confidence in this guy. So, I’m going try and contact some maxfax surgeons to determine if I’m a good candidate for jaw surgery. If I’m not, I’m going to contact Dr Wittenberg in Canada as his before/ after chin/ jawline pics are great.
Any thoughts or opinions?
Currently, my face is plagued with problem. But, mostly noticeably, really bad retrogenia (I measured it at about 12mm recessed!).
Initially, I contacted as many surgeons in my area (Scotland) as I could. They were ALL garbage! Every single one of them just offered me an ‘off-the-shelf’ chin implant. I think it’s fair to say that no surgeon should be trying to tackle 12mms of recession with a standard chin implant.
Consequently, I expanded my search into England, which basically meant London. Most ignored my messages, I think they expected me to just pay around £200 (that’s an average, and around $260) for a consultation and then jump on a train for 13 hours total (6.5 hours there and 6.5 hours back) for a 10 minutes chat where they could say, ‘You need a sliding genioplasty which I can do’. Luckily, one surgeon replied to me. We spoke on the phone and he suggested I come down to London for facial analysis where he could use 3D imaging to assess the area and treatment. Sounded good.
When I arrived at consultation, the surgeon had a laptop and a standard camera. No 3D imaging was used, unless that’s what he calls using his camera to take phones from different angles. I’ll summarise the consultation and following weeks of email correspondence into a few bullet points:
- The surgeon thought my face was fine in the front view, and only my profile needed adjustment.
-We spoke a little about jaw surgery. I’ve copied and pasted his final opinion on this matter from one of his emails:
‘you've only got a slight anterior open bite. In that regard, I do not think combining the genioplasty with orthognathic surgery will really be of any significant benefit’
- I’m a little bit sceptical of his view on jaw surgery as I know he doesn’t perform it. Thus, he has a financial incentive to push a sliding genioplasty.
- I asked about jaw implants to create jaw angles. Initially, he told me that he didn’t think I needed any jaw enhancement as he felt my jaw was “wide enough” and thus “perfectly fine”. This was a good sign, as it showed that he wasn’t just trying to push multiple surgeries to make more money.
- I had no intention of making my jaw wider. Rather, I was thinking about making my jaw lower. Once this was explained, he said I could do this. However, he suggested that I have a sliding genioplasty on its own, wait for it to completely heal, and then reassess my face and the need for further surgery.
- He felt that the overall facial harmony produced by a sliding genioplasty would be so positive that it would negate any desire for further surgery. I thought this was also a good sign.
This is when things went a bit wrong.
My own measurements indicate I’m about 12mm recessed. Eppley saw my profile picture and suggested I needed, ‘12mms or more’ forward advancement. The surgeon from London initially suggested:
‘The vertical length of your chin is satisfactory, though you also present with retrognathia. A sliding genioplasty with a 10mm advancement would certainly provide the facial balance and harmony that you are seeking.’
I asked for morphs, then the following happened:
Reply 1: ‘I am also sending you images from the 3D analysis’- I was still guessing this was his terminology for taking photos.
No images arrived, so I asked again:
Reply 2: ‘I will resend the images, - no problem’
Still no images arrived, so I asked again:
Reply 3: ‘I do not seem to have your 3D images’ and ‘Do you recall if I took 3D images on the day when we did the consultation?’
A few months later (once I had the money saved) I contacted him to say I could now afford the surgery but would need more details before moving forward. He told that under normal circumstances I would need to return to London to make some measurements since he didn’t have any. However, this was unnecessary in my case as I simply needed the maximum genio advancement which was 10mm. I’m pretty confident this is not the max movement. Even if it was (due to a small jaw), there are ways to get extra mm’s, i.e. chin implant overlay, combine the genio with jaw surgery. He’s tried to defend the 10mm movement by saying that the soft tissue adaptation is unpredictable following a genio, so there needs to be a 2mm error.
Also, his new recommendation was, ‘advancement of 10mm, with a vertical lengthening of the chin by 3mm’. I don’t know where the 3mm came from since he previously said the ‘vertical length of your chin is satisfactory’, and I don’t know how he performed any calculations without any images/ measurements, etc?!!
I’ve since lost a bit of confidence in this guy. So, I’m going try and contact some maxfax surgeons to determine if I’m a good candidate for jaw surgery. If I’m not, I’m going to contact Dr Wittenberg in Canada as his before/ after chin/ jawline pics are great.
Any thoughts or opinions?
