Natural Indian bodybuilding

[Reckless Turtle]

That’s 5 whole cups my brother don’t think most people could come close to that amount if they tried

That's reasonable over an entire day and certainly isn't an "absurd amount."

 

[sub6manletnozygos]

Cop out.


The sentence implies that he was eating meat and eggs in moderate amounts relative to other things, which certainly does not imply that those were the majority items.

The language in the sentence, particularly the emphasis on 'protein requirements' and 'proponent', implies that Sandow's diet relied primarily on raw eggs and meat—more than 50%—while 'moderation' signals he consumed amounts appropriate to his needs, not excessive quantities.

No, and ironic.

Cope. Then why don't you understand the above? Read the above sentence while assuming he eats meat at a 25% ratio. How does the sentence make sense?

None of this indicates the necessity of raw milk (at least past infancy).

It's not a necessity; it should be a legal preference. In a free world (democracy), one should do there best to lower any social structure that causes centralization or unnecessary corporate waste, which is what pasteurization does (centralizes the food supply as only those who pasteurize milk can sell it, and which creates a multi billion dollar industry which impedes small farmers and centralizes the food supply. Why do you understate the social concern of these issues? Or do you don't care about these social issues?

As an aside, do you believe in medical freedom and the Hippocratic oath? What's your opinion of vaccine mandates? Should we all be forced to get medical treatment even if it is established that regulatory take bribes from vaccine manufactures and may be indemnified by the government for law suits?

None of these bodybuilders lived during the medieval era. You're assuming that they couldn't afford to eat more meat. And you're also assuming that even if they could then they would have.

Yes.

Your anecdote has negligible merit due to the aforementioned reason.


I was asking for a source with some scientific merit.

I don't know of any studies that study mass consumption of milk and osteoclast or osteoblast proliferation.
However, we do know that herbivores are big and their nutrition is satisfied to grow big mass consumption of milk (calves turning into calves).

I like the taste of milk, I like the way it makes me feel, so I will continue to drink lots of milk.

Probably.

Lol? So if the 'science' said that a pharma medication was safe and effective, and you suffered a outlier medical side effect, you would continue to take the medicaiton? Most would stop the medication and other habits related to it.
Similarly, if one enjoy consuming a food (like meat and milk), and can determine that they feel better (mentally, spiritiually) then they should be able to consume what they want.

That depends on how long the directive has been studied for, the scale of the research, and the quality of the studies.

Conflicts of interests are mitigated by multiple researchers with various biases researching the topic and publishing a variety of findings.

Cope. Spoken like a regulatory who takes bribes from big pharma. Biases in academia is largely homogenous and binary (publish x - a favorable finding to shill y medication, and you will get more funding).

The Industry Agenda: Big Pharma | Revolving Door Project

Introduction “Big Pharma” is a broad term that refers to large pharmaceutical companies with significant market power in the industry. The term generally includes Johnson & Johnson, Eli Lilly, Pfizer, and Sanofi, among others. In 2019, Gallup found that the pharmaceutical industry was “the most...

therevolvingdoorproject.org

Probably because you edited your commented after I started responding. Also, that's a comment, not a question.

A moderate amount of olive oil consumption on a WFPB diet is unlikely to cause heart disease. That Israeli paradox doesn't seem to control for other factors very well.

Thank you for that answer. What happens if I already eat 80-90% meat, milk and eggs, and then consume a table spoon of olive oil a day. How much damage is that linolic acid going to do to me. It's ogre.

 

[asdvek]

Caged at 7-9gram protein per 100g

Also how does looking like that win u a title jfl

They probably dont get paid jack shit or anything at all just that fake gold trophy

 

[Mess]

@TechnoBoss @ascension lifefuel for people like me who are in the middle of their bulk.

 

[mogtivism]

Sustenance of boiled lentils (7-9 grams protein per 100g) and white rice mixed with famine genetics will get you.

This has got to be a joke of sorts, why would someone with a absolute dyel beginner build get on stage? Like JFL if that’s his natural genetic potential, thats the type of physique a very unfit european who has never lifted weights or exercised has before his first day in the gym….

He just needs to eat more cuscus, lentils and black beans, right?
To vegetarians' credit I did once meet a vegetarian who ate 500g-1kg of cuscus, lentils and black beans a day and was shredded. However, he also ate 10-20 eggs a day and 1 litre of milk a day.
What is an example of a vegan body builder who doesn't use PEDs?

Only reason that vegetarian was swole is thanks to the protein from eggs and helpful saturated fats/ protein from milk. IK a vegetarian irl who has been gyming seriously 3 years but still eats indian diet and he looks like crap, but I also know indians who adopt normal, balanced diets with meat/dairy and make good progress in the gym.

 

[sub5outsider]

indians are obsessed with bodybuilding competitions

 

[Reckless Turtle]

The language in the sentence, particularly the emphasis on 'protein requirements' and 'proponent', implies that Sandow's diet relied primarily on raw eggs and meat—more than 50%—while 'moderation' signals he consumed amounts appropriate to his needs, not excessive quantities.

No, it doesn't. And the sentences prior indicate that he did not consume a large amount of protein, which would fundamentally cap the amount of meat and raw eggs he was consuming.

Cope. Then why don't you understand the above? Read the above sentence while assuming he eats meat at a 25% ratio. How does the sentence make sense?

Why would I assume some arbitrary ratio that I never mentioned?

It's not a necessity; it should be a legal preference. In a free world (democracy), one should do there best to lower any social structure that causes centralization or unnecessary corporate waste, which is what pasteurization does (centralizes the food supply as only those who pasteurize milk can sell it, and which creates a multi billion dollar industry which impedes small farmers and centralizes the food supply. Why do you understate the social concern of these issues? Or do you don't care about these social issues?

I don't care about pasteurization of milk because I don't drink it.

Yes.

Unsupported speculation

However, we do know that herbivores are big and their nutrition is satisfied to grow big mass consumption of milk (calves turning into calves).

That's during early development and many herbivores eat plants with little protein (grass).

So if the 'science' said that a pharma medication was safe and effective, and you suffered a outlier medical side effect, you would continue to take the medicaiton?

Probably not.

Similarly, if one enjoy consuming a food (like meat and milk), and can determine that they feel better (mentally, spiritiually) then they should be able to consume what they want.

Strawman

Cope. Spoken like a regulatory who takes bribes from big pharma. Biases in academia is largely homogenous and binary (publish x - a favorable finding to shill y medication, and you will get more funding).

The Industry Agenda: Big Pharma | Revolving Door Project

Introduction “Big Pharma” is a broad term that refers to large pharmaceutical companies with significant market power in the industry. The term generally includes Johnson & Johnson, Eli Lilly, Pfizer, and Sanofi, among others. In 2019, Gallup found that the pharmaceutical industry was “the most...

therevolvingdoorproject.org

There's also an incentive to discover side effects of drugs and sue pharmaceutical companies.

Thank you for that answer. What happens if I already eat 90% meat and then consume a table spoon of olive oil a day. How much damage is that linolic acid going to do to me. It's ogre.

Very little. Most of the damage is from the meat.

 

[sub6manletnozygos]

I don't care about pasteurization of milk because I don't drink it.

Do you think it should be banned? If so, then you support government centralization of farms, unnecessary industry (pasteurization) and centralization of the food supply.

Unsupported speculation

No. As evidenced above, it was typical of poor people to consume less meat than the wealthy.

That's during early development and many herbivores eat plants with little protein (grass).

Most herbivores drink milk during their infancy or early stages of life, as milk is a vital source of nutrition for mammalian young, regardless of their adult diet. If you want to encourage continued growth you should continue drinking milk.

Probably not.

Good. So veganism and vegetarianism might broadly be considered 'treatment', and therefore the international mandate aimed at reducing meat, fish, milk and egg consumption, is an implied treatment. As this treatment (lowered animal intake) makes me feel bad (sideeffects) I should have the right to consume as much animal products as I can, if I can afford to do so, without government intervention. Do you agree?

Strawman

No it is about listening to one's body and having autonomy over one's body. It's also about social issues described above.

There's also an incentive to discover side effects of drugs and sue pharmaceutical companies.

Not when they are indemnified by the government, and less so with the aforementioned revolving door. Why do you ignore the impact of a revolving door and indemnification of liability, like with vaccines, which I raised earlier?

Very little. Most of the damage is from the meat.

I will copy your argumentation style and say: 'Source?'

 

[St.TikTokcel]

Guess I'm indian then

Too real

 

[Reckless Turtle]

Do you think it should be banned? If so, then you support government centralization of farms, unnecessary industry (pasteurization) and centralization of the food supply.

I don't care. I don't support animal agriculture in general.

No. As evidenced above, it was typical of poor people to consume less meat than the wealthy.

Your "evidence" was a Wikipedia page from the medieval period.

Most herbivores drink milk during their infancy or early stages of life, as milk is a vital source of nutrition for mammalian young, regardless of their adult diet. If you want to encourage continued growth you should continue drinking milk.

Drinking milk past maturation won't cause continued growth in any meaningful amount.

Good. So veganism and vegetarianism might broadly be considered 'treatment', and therefore the international mandate aimed at reducing meat, fish, milk and egg consumption, is an implied treatment. As this treatment (lowered animal intake) makes me feel bad (sideeffects) I should have the right to consume as much animal products as I can, if I can afford to do so, without government intervention. Do you agree?

Stop being solipsistic. This discussion was never about what makes you feel bad. It was about you specifying the details of your conditions so that others can assess whether your rambling anecdotes are even worth caring about.

No it is about listening to one's body and having autonomy over one's body. It's also about social issues described above.

You're just arguing with yourself at this point.

Not when they are indemnified by the government, and less so with the aforementioned revolving door. Why do you ignore the impact of a revolving door and indemnification of liability, like with vaccines, which I raised earlier?

What are you talking about? There are constantly major lawsuits against pharmaceutical companies.

I will copy your argumentation style and say: 'Source?'

Non-heme iron absorbs less proficiently, but there is a positive correlation between heme iron consumption and cancer risk.

Heme - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Meanwhile, increased dietary cholesterol consumption positively correlates with ED. It's over for animal product eaters who think that nofap/noporn is going to cure their ED.

The relationship between lipid profile and erectile dysfunction - International Journal of Impotence Research

The objective of this study is to investigate the relation between serum lipids (cholesterol, LDL, HDL, triglyceride (TG)) and erectile dysfunction (ED). The experimental methods involved comparison of 100 patients with organic ED (mean age of 43.59±10.51 y), with 100 healthy individuals (mean...

www.nature.com

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7666422/

Enjoy your naturally elevated risk of various cancers and complications associated with dietary heme iron and cholesterol then.

Plant-based diet correlates with greater sperm mobility, density, and overall fertility

It's over for spermcel animal product eaters. Results of this study stated that greater adherence to the healthful plant-based diet index (hPDI), can significantly increase sperm density and motility in men, as well as greater adherence to the PDI dietary pattern is related to a lower risk of...

looksmax.org

 

[sub6manletnozygos]

I don't care. I don't support animal agriculture in general.

Nihilist, defeatist cope. As people do eat animal products, and will continue to eat animal products for the foreseeable future, ancillary issues like centralization of the food supple (and authoritarianism) should remain a concern, just as I would care if plant based, agriculture was centralized.

Your "evidence" was a Wikipedia page from the medieval period.

Yes, and the sources inside it.

Drinking milk past maturation won't cause continued growth in any meaningful amount.

I will try your style of argumentation. Source?

Just as you define 'mainly' and 'moderation' as an undefined ratio, I define 'meaningful' amount as any amount more than 0.0001% and therefore drinking milk is worth doing as my lactase persistence distinguishes itself from fully growth cows, and means that I can gain benefits from mass, affordable milk consumption.

Stop being solipsistic. This discussion was never about what makes you feel bad. It was about you specifying the details of your conditions so that others can assess whether your rambling anecdotes are even worth caring about.

Stop being a nihilist, where something only matters if there's a source, and denigrating the importance of feeling good in relation to diet.

People eat meat in mass amounts currently because of improved resource extraction in society, they like the way it makes them feel and they get results from it (mental effects, weight lifting results). If this wasn't the case, people would go on grain based diets with 0 meat but they don't.

You're just arguing with yourself at this point.


What are you talking about? There are constantly major lawsuits against pharmaceutical companies.

And there would be even more of them but for medical indemnification and the revolving door. The point is governments and banks do not want a society that is healthy because a healthy society is less profitable and easier to control. They also fear that Malthusian collapse could occur due to population 'overconsumption' and argue plant based foods are more sustainable (they are if you create GMO hydroponics, and you can effect insert GMO vaccine into them). In comparison, animal product consumption is healthy but science in favor of it is not funded to the same degree.
See club of Rome's 'limits to growth' for your future.
See large institutions forcing social change through credit creation and provision. invarious BBIB/VCs/Hodling companies talk about this at their conferences eg Blackrock & ESG.
See UCR 'edible vaccines' research eg vaccines in lettuce.

 

[sub6manletnozygos]

Meanwhile, increased dietary cholesterol consumption positively correlates with ED. It's over for animal product eaters who think that nofap/noporn is going to cure their ED.

The relationship between lipid profile and erectile dysfunction - International Journal of Impotence Research​

The objective of this study is to investigate the relation between serum lipids (cholesterol, LDL, HDL, triglyceride (TG)) and erectile dysfunction (ED). The experimental methods involved comparison of 100 patients with organic ED (mean age of 43.59±10.51 y), with 100 healthy individuals (mean...

www.nature.com
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7666422/

Enjoy your naturally elevated risk of various cancers and complications associated with dietary heme iron and cholesterol then.

Why did I feel impotent and tired on a vegan diet and virile and strong on a meat based diet? My excess cholesterol made me high t and improved my mood, from my 10-36 eggs a day.

 

[Reckless Turtle]

Nihilist, defeatist cope. As people do eat animal products, and will continue to eat animal products for the foreseeable future, ancillary issues like centralization of the food supple (and authoritarianism) should remain a concern, just as I would care if plant based, agriculture was centralized.

Yes, and the sources inside it.

None of these bodybuilders lived during the medieval era.

I will try your style of argumentation. Source?

https://www.rcpch.ac.uk/sites/default/files/Boys_2-18_years_growth_chart.pdf

Just as you define 'mainly' and 'moderation' as an undefined ratio,

I simply observed that there were no defined dietary ratios in the articles you linked on two different bodybuilders from over a century ago.

I define 'meaningful' amount as any amount more than 0.0001% and therefore drinking milk is worth doing as my lactase persistence distinguishes itself from fully growth cows, and means that I can gain benefits from mass, affordable milk consumption.

Stop being a nihilist, where something only matters if there's a source, and denigrating the importance of feeling good in relation to diet.

Strawman

People eat meat in mass amounts currently because of improved resource extraction in society, they like the way it makes them feel

No shit

The point is governments and banks do not want a society that is healthy because a healthy society is less profitable and easier to control.

Which is maybe why advertisements for processed food and animal products are rampant in the US.

and argue plant based foods are more sustainable

Correct

See large institutions forcing social change through credit creation and provision. invarious BBIB/VCs/Hodling companies talk about this at their conferences eg Blackrock & ESG.
See UCR 'edible vaccines' research eg vaccines in lettuce.

Farmers’ sales of livestock, dairy, and poultry account for over half of U.S. agricultural cash receipts. In 2022, cash receipts from animal products were $259 billion

USDA ERS - Animal Products

Aquaculture, cattle and beef, dairy, hogs and pork, poultry and eggs, sheep, lamb and mutton.

www.ers.usda.gov

Why did I feel impotent and tired on a vegan diet and virile and strong on a meat based diet?

You haven't provided specifications for both scenarios, which means that anyone reading this has no idea what was and wasn't controlled for.

 

[SoundnVision]

And the average girl thinks you go to the gym and just get huge.
These guys are in a fucking BODYBUILDER competition and girls think an average dude can go to a gym and look like a roided freak.
CLOWN WORLD

 

[sub6manletnozygos]

I simply observed that there were no defined dietary ratios in the articles you linked on two different bodybuilders from over a century ago.

No, you said my sources failed at all to support the fact that 1900s bodybuilders/athletes consumed mainly eat. Your abolutism is wrong.

Strawman

Cope.

No shit

Of meat.

Which is maybe why advertisements for processed food and animal products are rampant in the US.

Indeed, processed foods, and mass farmed meat in unsanitary conditions (which most of your studies likely use, ie the cheapest meat for the study) has bad outcomes. At least we agree on that.
I wonder why your studies don't select for organic game or organic pasture raised meat, if they did, why they don't note this?
What do you think has higher nutritional content (American pork fed ground up plastic or small farm, ethically sourced pork)?

Legal plastic content in animal feed could harm human health, experts warn

Small bits of plastic packaging from waste food make their way into animal feed as part of the UK’s permitted recycling process

www.theguardian.com

Correct

USDA ERS - Animal Products

Aquaculture, cattle and beef, dairy, hogs and pork, poultry and eggs, sheep, lamb and mutton.

www.ers.usda.gov

If your end goal is Malthusian collapse, then I'm sure they can manufacture that argument, and coincidentally make the alternatives agricultural infrastructure very profitable!

 

[Reckless Turtle]

my sources failed at all to support the fact that 1900s bodybuilders/athletes consumed mainly [m]eat.

Thus far, yes.

Cope.

Cop out

Indeed, processed foods, and mass farmed meat in unsanitary conditions (which most of your studies likely use, ie the cheapest meat for the study) has bad outcomes. At least we agree on that.
I wonder why your studies don't select for organic game or organic pasture raised meat, if they did, why they don't note this?

Which of "my" studies are you referring to?

What do you think has higher nutritional content (American pork fed ground up plastic or small farm, ethically sourced pork)?

Legal plastic content in animal feed could harm human health, experts warn

Small bits of plastic packaging from waste food make their way into animal feed as part of the UK’s permitted recycling process

www.theguardian.com

If your end goal is Malthusian collapse, then I'm sure they can manufacture that argument, and coincidentally make the alternatives agricultural infrastructure very profitable!

Strawman

 

[sub6manletnozygos]

Thus far, yes.

Cope. If you are not willing to concede then you can undoubtedly concede that they at least consumed a moderate amount of meat for their protein consumption (which you think is <50%).

Cop out

No.

Which of "my" studies are you referring to?

Most of the profiles in your studies do not control for their specific diet. If they do, and their diet is meat majority, there is no distinction between someone who consumed a processed meat + low quality meat diet, and someone who only consumed organic grass fed diet, raw milk & and eggs and wild game.
I suspect that such a diet would have superior serum lipids (cholesterol, LDL, HDL, triglyceride (TG) data than the poor quality meat or plant based data profiles.

 

[Reckless Turtle]

Cope. If you are not willing to concede then you can undoubtedly concede that they at least consumed a moderate amount of meat for their protein consumption (which you think is <50%).

How am I supposed to know what they were eating?

No.

Yes.

your studies

I don't own any studies. Nor did I publish those.

If they do, and their diet is meat majority, there is no distinction between someone who consumed a processed meat + low quality meat diet, and someone who only consumed organic grass fed diet, raw milk & and eggs and wild game.

You're suggesting that the prior contains more heme-iron (blood)?

I suspect that such a diet would have superior serum lipids (cholesterol, LDL, HDL, triglyceride (TG) data than the poor quality meat or plant based data profiles.

What would make the data superior?