Neck Insertion Revisited: The Throat–Mandible Point

[thecel]

I wrote a thread back in June 2020 about the location of the foramen magnum (or "neck insertion" for short — credits to @ Bewusst). The foramen magnum is the hole at the bottom of the skull that the neck attaches to. The essential idea: forward neck insertion is bad and backward neck insertion is good.

Few people realize that a backward-grown neck is more important than a forward-grown face (foramen magnum location theory)

Original posts: A vertical neck attached to the skull at a more rearward position—as opposed to a forward-inclined neck attached to the middle of the skull—can give the illusion of forward growth. Sometimes just a straightened neck looks better than actual forward growth (of course, the...

looksmax.org

Examples ranging from very forward (bad) to very backward (good):

Each of these skull examples have different amounts of forward growth. To determine neck insertion, look at where the top of the neck is located compared to the condyle (the condyle is the hinge point of the jaw) or the ear canal hole. Both of these points work; just pick one. I'll use the ear canal hole.

1. In the 1st pic, the ear canal hole is near the back of the cervical spine. This indicates a very forward neck insertion.
2. In the 2nd one, it's almost centered on it.
3. In the 3rd, it's at the front end.
4. In the 4th, the ear canal hole is completely in front of the cervical spine. This indicates a very backward neck insertion.

---

The Throat–Mandible Point

The throat–mandible point is where the throat meets the jawline in a person's side profile. It's a very important thing related to neck insertion. In most cases, the more forward a person's jawline is in relation to the front of the neck, the better it looks. The ideal is a jawline that only barely overlaps the neck, creating a "sharp cliff overhang" appearance.

The woman above has good forward growth and also a rearward-positioned neck insertion. See how little of the mandible overlaps the neck. About 2/3 of her jawline protrudes away from her neck.

Now look at this dude. He has good forward growth, but his side profile is ruined by his forward neck insertion. His neck is so forward that less than half of the length of his jawline projects in front of his throat. And taking head posture into account, his real throat–mandible point is even worse. If he had proper posture, like ~75% of his jawline would be overlapping his neck.

---

Examples of good neck insertion:

Examples of average neck insertion:

Examples of poor neck insertion:

See the difference that neck insertion makes with these 2 men viewed from the same angle:

You can clearly see how the 1st guy's neck is connected to the center of his skull while the 2nd guy's neck is connected close to the back of his skull.

 

[Deleted member 3990]

CAGE

 

[coke]

Is it fixable?

 

[Attorney]

Is it fixable?

It doesn't seem like something fixable tbh.

 

[coke]

It doesn't seem like something fixable tbh.

That's what I was thinking, was wondering if maybe exercising or better posture could eventually straighten the neck. It seems like a lot of males have that forward neck look because of the Adams Apple, even this picture everyone posts.. maybe he's leaning forward tho.

 

[Ocelot]

I have to say, from what I've seen, many of your threads are high-effort but ultimately don't make sense. This isn't an insertion issue.

Men literally just have more hyoid tissue, larger submandibular glands, etc.

You will never see a man with a submental like Margot Robbie, even if they have better fw growth.

 

[StrangerDanger]

So does this also mean that a backwards neck is correlated to a flat occiput and vice-versa?

 

[EasternRightWinger15]

thanks for ruining my day

 

[thecel]

Is it fixable?

You can use a rope to pull your neck backward

 

[thecel]

So does this also mean that a backwards neck is correlated to a flat occiput and vice-versa?

I don't know

 

[coke]

I'd call this one a write off bro, having a thin neck like a female isn't ideal, a thick forward neck is masculine.

 

[thecel]

I'd call this one a write off bro, having a thin neck like a female isn't ideal, a thick forward neck is masculine.

Thick BACKWARD neck is masculine.

 

[coke]

See the difference that neck insertion makes with these 2 men viewed from the same angle:

View attachment 971732View attachment 971733

You can clearly see how the 1st guy's neck is connected to the center of his skull while the 2nd guy's neck is connected close to the back of his skull.

If anything, this just proves that forward neck can be more ideal.. that 2nd neck looks horrible, like a palm tree, he'd snap like a twig. The 1st neck looks tougher and more masculine, more female appeal.

 

[Soontm]

I mean thats common sense but if you cant offer a solution this thread is useless

 

[Deleted member 11053]

It doesn't seem like something fixable tbh.

 

[reptiles]

I wrote a thread back in June 2020 about the location of the foramen magnum (or "neck insertion" for short — credits to @ Bewusst). The foramen magnum is the hole at the bottom of the skull that the neck attaches to. The essential idea: forward neck insertion is bad and backward neck insertion is good.

Few people realize that a backward-grown neck is more important than a forward-grown face (foramen magnum location theory)

Original posts: A vertical neck attached to the skull at a more rearward position—as opposed to a forward-inclined neck attached to the middle of the skull—can give the illusion of forward growth. Sometimes just a straightened neck looks better than actual forward growth (of course, the...

looksmax.org

Examples ranging from very forward (bad) to very backward (good):

View attachment 971641View attachment 971643View attachment 971642View attachment 971644

Each of these skull examples have different amounts of forward growth. To determine neck insertion, look at where the top of the neck is located compared to the condyle (the condyle is the hinge point of the jaw) or the ear canal hole. Both of these points work; just pick one. I'll use the ear canal hole.

1. In the 1st pic, the ear canal hole is near the back of the cervical spine. This indicates a very forward neck insertion.
2. In the 2nd one, it's almost centered on it.
3. In the 3rd, it's at the front end.
4. In the 4th, the ear canal hole is completely in front of the cervical spine. This indicates a very backward neck insertion.

---

The Throat–Mandible Point

The throat–mandible point is where the throat meets the jawline in a person's side profile. It's a very important thing related to neck insertion. In most cases, the more forward a person's jawline is in relation to the front of the neck, the better it looks. The ideal is a jawline that only barely overlaps the neck, creating a "sharp cliff overhang" appearance.

View attachment 971683

The woman above has good forward growth and also a rearward-positioned neck insertion. See how little of the mandible overlaps the neck. About 2/3 of her jawline protrudes away from her neck.

View attachment 971687

Now look at this dude. He has good forward growth, but his side profile is ruined by his forward neck insertion. His neck is so forward that less than half of the length of his jawline projects in front of his throat. And taking head posture into account, his real throat–mandible point is even worse. If he had proper posture, like ~75% of his jawline would be overlapping his neck.

---

Examples of good neck insertion:

View attachment 971706View attachment 971708View attachment 971683



Examples of average neck insertion:

View attachment 971710View attachment 971711View attachment 971714View attachment 971750



Examples of poor neck insertion:

View attachment 971715View attachment 971687View attachment 971727



See the difference that neck insertion makes with these 2 men viewed from the same angle:

View attachment 971732View attachment 971733

You can clearly see how the 1st guy's neck is connected to the center of his skull while the 2nd guy's neck is connected close to the back of his skull.

Every thread of yours is high IQ tbqh why don't you try and write scientific studies on the black pill ?

 

[thecel]

If anything, this just proves that forward neck can be more ideal.. that 2nd neck looks horrible, like a palm tree, he'd snap like a twig. The 1st neck looks tougher and more masculine, more female appeal.

What if the 2nd guy had a thicker neck?

Before:

 

[coke]

What if the 2nd guy had a thicker neck?

View attachment 971862View attachment 971861



Before:

View attachment 971864

I think if the 2nd guy had a thicker neck he'd look better, and if the 1st guy had a thinner neck he'd look worse.

 

[ovosoundszn]

They all have the same insertion, its all postural bro.

 

[datboijj]

By the way all (healthy) babies have their neck's all the way at the back of their skull
I even felt it on my 4 year old niece her hyoid start literally at the back of her jaw
While even the most foreword grown adult has their hyoid at 3/4th of the jaw

They all have the same insertion, its all postural bro.

 

[randomvanish]

it's only fixable with implants

 

[spark]

It doesn't seem like something fixable tbh.

wait posture is not fixable?

 

[Attorney]

wait posture is not fixable?

Yes, it is, but it won't change the position of the neck insertion.

 

[spark]

Yes, it is, but it won't change the position of the neck insertion.

Yeah but is this really genetic? I don't think we're born with a forward head posture.

 

[spark]

This guy's neck went back a little after working on his posture:

 

[ovosoundszn]

By the way all (healthy) babies have their neck's all the way at the back of their skull
I even felt it on my 4 year old niece her hyoid start literally at the back of her jaw
While even the most foreword grown adult has their hyoid at 3/4th of the jaw

appreciate the high effort bro. Can't wait for the 12th

 

[AlwaysHaveQuestions]

I have to say, from what I've seen, many of your threads are high-effort but ultimately don't make sense. This isn't an insertion issue.

Men literally just have more hyoid tissue, larger submandibular glands, etc.

You will never see a man with a submental like Margot Robbie, even if they have better fw growth.

yea first thing i notice was the good examples are all foids

 

[thecel]

Examples ranging from very forward (bad) to very backward (good):

Each of these skull examples have different amounts of forward growth. To determine neck insertion, look at where the top of the neck is located compared to the condyle (the condyle is the hinge point of the jaw) or the ear canal hole. Both of these points work; just pick one. I'll use the ear canal hole.

1. In the 1st pic, the ear canal hole is near the back of the cervical spine. This indicates a very forward neck insertion.
2. In the 2nd one, it's almost centered on it.
3. In the 3rd, it's at the front end.
4. In the 4th, the ear canal hole is completely in front of the cervical spine. This indicates a very backward neck insertion.

FUARK the 1st pic cervical spine is so far forward that even the gonions overlap with it from the side.

 

[betamanlet]

See the difference that neck insertion makes with these 2 men viewed from the same angle:

View attachment 971732View attachment 971733

You can clearly see how the 1st guy's neck is connected to the center of his skull while the 2nd guy's neck is connected close to the back of his skull.

I think it's really just a matter of posture & development, rather than variation in the position of the foramen magnum. The position of the foramen magnum is largely determined by mechanical/anatomical factors (it has to reside in a specific area of the skull in order to enable upright walking -- in studying remains of ancient hominids the position of the foramen is used to determine how upright they walked), and thus there does not exist so much variation in it. Mainly the shape and size of the hole varies.

Consider that there are two different main movements occurring in craniofacial/postural development. Namely, CW neurocranial rotation and CCW splanchocranial rotation:

Thus, in order to match the second guy, the first guy would have to properly extend his neck so as to rotate the neurocranium forwards, and simultaneously acquire opposite rotation of the jaws:

Interesting hypothesis nevertheless.

 

[Deleted member 3832]

The neck being connected to the back of the skull is a DOM trait btw.


Especially when the neck is thick.

 

[thecel]

Consider that there are two different main movements occurring in craniofacial/postural development. Namely, CW neurocranial rotation and CCW splanchocranial rotation:

Thus, in order to match the second guy, the first guy would have to properly extend his neck so as to rotate the neurocranium forwards, and simultaneously acquire opposite rotation of the jaws:

The 1st guy is not supposed to have his cranium and jaws rotated like that. His neurocranium is already properly rotated in the original photo; his eyes are below the tops of his ears.

If he had an upward-tilted head, his eyes would be above the tops of his ears like the "before" pic here:

His eyes are below the middle of his ears in the morph. No one's ears are that high-set. It looks very unnatural.

 

[R@m@]

I think it also makes the adams apple stick out more

 

[Deleted member 7076]

good thread. most people i know have a shit insertion, i only know a couple people with the ideal insertion.

 

[thecel]

This defies the chimp rule. Chimp foramen magnum is superior to human foramen magnum.

 

[Deleted member 10913]

I wrote a thread back in June 2020 about the location of the foramen magnum (or "neck insertion" for short — credits to @ Bewusst). The foramen magnum is the hole at the bottom of the skull that the neck attaches to. The essential idea: forward neck insertion is bad and backward neck insertion is good.

Few people realize that a backward-grown neck is more important than a forward-grown face (foramen magnum location theory)

Original posts: A vertical neck attached to the skull at a more rearward position—as opposed to a forward-inclined neck attached to the middle of the skull—can give the illusion of forward growth. Sometimes just a straightened neck looks better than actual forward growth (of course, the...

looksmax.org

Examples ranging from very forward (bad) to very backward (good):

View attachment 971641View attachment 971643View attachment 971642View attachment 971644

Each of these skull examples have different amounts of forward growth. To determine neck insertion, look at where the top of the neck is located compared to the condyle (the condyle is the hinge point of the jaw) or the ear canal hole. Both of these points work; just pick one. I'll use the ear canal hole.

1. In the 1st pic, the ear canal hole is near the back of the cervical spine. This indicates a very forward neck insertion.
2. In the 2nd one, it's almost centered on it.
3. In the 3rd, it's at the front end.
4. In the 4th, the ear canal hole is completely in front of the cervical spine. This indicates a very backward neck insertion.

---

The Throat–Mandible Point

The throat–mandible point is where the throat meets the jawline in a person's side profile. It's a very important thing related to neck insertion. In most cases, the more forward a person's jawline is in relation to the front of the neck, the better it looks. The ideal is a jawline that only barely overlaps the neck, creating a "sharp cliff overhang" appearance.

View attachment 971683

The woman above has good forward growth and also a rearward-positioned neck insertion. See how little of the mandible overlaps the neck. About 2/3 of her jawline protrudes away from her neck.

View attachment 971687

Now look at this dude. He has good forward growth, but his side profile is ruined by his forward neck insertion. His neck is so forward that less than half of the length of his jawline projects in front of his throat. And taking head posture into account, his real throat–mandible point is even worse. If he had proper posture, like ~75% of his jawline would be overlapping his neck.

---

Examples of good neck insertion:

View attachment 971706View attachment 971708View attachment 971683



Examples of average neck insertion:

View attachment 971710View attachment 971711View attachment 971714View attachment 971750



Examples of poor neck insertion:

View attachment 971715View attachment 971687View attachment 971727



See the difference that neck insertion makes with these 2 men viewed from the same angle:

View attachment 971732View attachment 971733

You can clearly see how the 1st guy's neck is connected to the center of his skull while the 2nd guy's neck is connected close to the back of his skull.

which of the last two is correct. I would guess the second right..

 

[thecel]

which of the last two is correct. I would guess the second right..

Yes, the 2nd guy has the better neck insertion.

 

[Deleted member 10913]

Yes, the 2nd guy has the better neck insertion.

This defies the chimp rule. Chimp foramen magnum is superior to human foramen magnum.
View attachment 972637

no suprise that this beast has more forward growh.

 

[betamanlet]

His neurocranium is already properly rotated in the original photo

How could his neurocranium be properly rotated when not even his neck is fully straightened out? He stands to gain at least a dozen degrees of neurocranial rotation by fixing cervical slack.

His eyes are below the middle of his ears in the morph. No one's ears are that high-set. It looks very unnatural.

Agree. Don't mind the ears. They are just an unintended side effect of a quick photoshop job.

 

[Deleted member 2729]

Changing hyoid position and neck lift/liposuction should partially fix this right?

 

[Deleted member 10913]

Changing hyoid position and neck lift/liposuction should partially fix this right?

Chin tucking seems to do the job. In short term it's a looksmin. Long term it is supossed to help

 

[Deleted member 2729]

View attachment 973203
Chin tucking seems to do the job. In short term it's a looksmin. Long term it is supossed to help

You mean as an excercise like going forward and backward 10 minutes a day just like you would hardmew an hour a day or chewmaxx an hour?
And btw moving the chin forward should also improve the submental area right?

 

[Deleted member 7076]

if theres a legit solution to improving this then this is easily a BOTB thread

 

[Deleted member 10913]

You mean as an excercise like going forward and backward 10 minutes a day just like you would hardmew an hour a day or chewmaxx an hour?
And btw moving the chin forward should also improve the submental area right?

Well you see this should be your natural position for most part. Obciously most of us cant go straight from black to white so it's a phase. Mewing requires les force while chin tucking. Excesive tongue muscle use is hereby reduced.

 

[Deleted member 2729]

Well you see this should be your natural position for most part. Obciously most of us cant go straight from black to white so it's a phase. Mewing requires les force while chin tucking. Excesive tongue muscle use is hereby reduced.

There is no way chintucked can become my new normal position since I look way worse than before

 

[Deleted member 10913]

There is no way chintucked can become my new normal position since I look way worse than before

Well in long term it should help you. You are at home like most of the world right now. What better is there to do other then starting chintucking?

 

[Deleted member 7076]

What better is there to do other then starting chinfucking?

 

[Deleted member 2729]

Well in long term it should help you. You are at home like most of the world right now. What better is there to do other then starting chintucking?

Yea I am using the time to research looksmaxxes thats true I will try this chintucking atleast at home/while alone ty

 

[Deleted member 10913]

Shut up i checked and i wrote it correct.

 

[Deleted member 12218]

View attachment 973203
Chin tucking seems to do the job. In short term it's a looksmin. Long term it is supossed to help

That’s not chin tucking, that’s forcing your head back when it needs to go back and ROTATE cw

 

[hairyballscel]

You will never see a man with a submental like Margot Robbie, even if they have better fw growth.

when i mew its close ngl

when i get to 10% bf it will legit be like hers