New bone-borne appliance: Facegenics Maxillary Expander (FME) installed on patient

[Tasty17]

Nah it's a custom made expansion from your scans/intra oral x-rays that can expand up to 18mm depending on screw length which tend to be longer, seems to have those arms though
View attachment 2054875View attachment 2054876
So logically --> more midfacial expansion?

@NegativeNorwood is a huge fan of it

Amazing. I don't need much expansion myself. I have an IMW of 37mm. I just want it to be symmetric.

 

[Tasty17]

Also full skeletal expansion @Tasty17, not dental.
The device is based af, it allows for equal ANS and PNS expansion in case of a MARPE. If used for a SARPE, the anterior and posterior expansion of the palate are the same, meaning it's possible to get a smile like this with it and braces:

With the run of the mill RPE devices the posterior expansion barely happen in comparison, giving a cone shaped expansion pattern and a less aesthetic smile (most of the increase would be anterior width, and the mogger smiles have substantial posterior width, you can clearly see how his palate is U shaped in the pic above and extremely wide posteriorly, not just anteriorly)

The device posted in the OP and the one posted by @jfbjfb work on the same principle (custom made from a CBCT scan and fully bone anchored) and should be equally effective. Great times for smilecels

Naturally, my PNS is wider, with an IMW of 37mm, while my ANS is pretty narrow, haha. It would be lifefuel, if I could manage to get a smile like that. Exciting times man. What are your thoughts so far about the FME vs. the power expander?

 

[Tasty17]

High IQ thread tbh, thank you everyone who contributed.

 

[Tasty17]

Not exactly. Screw drag is caused, among other factors, when the device is not properly placed and when you expand too rapidly. This is mentioned in the Ilya Lipkin video attached above (around minute 6). You pair this with short screws anchored purely in a vertical direction, uncut arms connected to the molars, and you get a recipe for disaster.

On the other hand if you use these modified MSE options, with long screws perpendicular to the bone, surgical assist with the piezo only in the midpalatal suture, placed precisely by the ortho based on CBCT scans, and turn it once a day... Then you get real results -> zygos, undereye support, some IPD gains, wide U shaped palate, fuller lips and airway benefits.

Give me 6 months and I will be proof of this.

Much success brother!

 

[NegativeNorwood]

Naturally, my PNS is wider, with an IMW of 37mm, while my ANS is pretty narrow, haha. It would be lifefuel, if I could manage to get a smile like that. Exciting times man. What are your thoughts so far about the FME vs. the power expander?

Would get any of the 3 (Power Expander, FME and DS Xpander) because they achieve the same goal in the same way (even expansion and custom made from a CBCT scan). Pick the cheapest one or the one that has an ortho familiarized with it closer to your location.
Being a smilecel is a thing of the past

 

[Tasty17]

Would get any of the 3 (Power Expander, FME and DS Xpander) because they achieve the same goal in the same way (even expansion and custom made from a CBCT scan). Pick the cheapest one or the one that has an ortho familiarized with it closer to your location.
Being a smilecel is a thing of the past

The FME is also interesting because of the facepuller they developed. Apparently it can give you CCW for the first time ever. It pulls up on a positive angle and directly attaches to the FME. I could need that for some midface „shortening“.

 

[noprogressno]

Ok but... Where is the protraction design? Are we not supposed to get any update about that?
You know... I am talking about the design that the creator of this device brutally stole from me...

 

[Tasty17]

Ok but... Where is the protraction design? Are we not supposed to get any update about that?
You know... I am talking about the design that the creator of this device brutally stole from me...

Don’t know about the details. Can you elaborate?

 

[noprogressno]

Don’t know about the details. Can you elaborate?

imgur.com

Discover the magic of the internet at Imgur, a community powered entertainment destination. Lift your spirits with funny jokes, trending memes, entertaining gifs, inspiring stories, viral videos, and so much more from users.

imgur.io

Looks like somebody patented a design which doesn't belong to them,huh?

 

[spark]

MSE is also attached to teeth. Dr. Kasey Li said that from case-studies, he saw that MSE delivers roughly 50% tooth expansion and 50% bone expansion. Thus, you have to expand more with MSE than with devices like TPD. Also, the TPD seems weak and it is not screwed directly into the bone like the FME which might results to one side being expanded more than the other, thus causing asymmetries. Your doctor can request the device from: https://facegenics.com/. We have to see more case-studies though to be able to make concluding statements. So far in theory this seems the best thing on the market right now.

Kasey Li is a liar and a known MSE hater who even claims MSE only expands near the teeth with the typical pre-MSE cone shape expansion. He says it to push his own scam that he charges crazy money for. Won Moon said like 98% of expansion is in the bone.

 

[spark]

I've read from Sergio-OMS, who is actually a surgeon, that palatal expansion without surgical assist in people over 16-17 yo is pointless

Surgical assist mse hit different

It looks like mike tyson socked me in the lower maxilla

looksmax.org

The 1000€ they quoted you is with the surgery cut included or just to place the device?

I'm 30 and planning to get palatal expansion, not sure where yet. My main options atm are Alfaro for palatal expansion and Juan Carlos Perez Varela as an ortho (he invented a palatal expansion device called Power Expander and lives near me). Atm I'm tight on money and will get an insurance to cover it in the future, but I'll have to wait at least 10-12 months after hiring it to have the chance of getting it covered AFAIK. The prices I've seen for SARPE where around 5000-9000€ btw.
Who is your ortho and where is located if you don't mind telling it?

outdated info

 

[Tasty17]

View attachment 2056665View attachment 2056667
View attachment 2056668

imgur.com

Discover the magic of the internet at Imgur, a community powered entertainment destination. Lift your spirits with funny jokes, trending memes, entertaining gifs, inspiring stories, viral videos, and so much more from users.

imgur.io

Looks like somebody patented a design which doesn't belong to them,huh?

Brutal.

 

[Tasty17]

Kasey Li is a liar and a known MSE hater who even claims MSE only expands near the teeth with the typical pre-MSE cone shape expansion. He says it to push his own scam that he charges crazy money for. Won Moon said like 98% of expansion is in the bone.

Well, since he failed expansion on some adult on YouTube, I don't take him serious anymore.

 

[LebenistneHure]

I only care about IPD gains tbh. Tag my ass if someone gains even 1 mms.

 

[Tasty17]

I only care about IPD gains tbh. Tag my ass if someone gains even 1 mms.

Das Leben ist eine Hure mein Bruder.

 

[NegativeNorwood]

outdated info

Piezo is surgical assistance. He said he does surgical assistance 100% of the time in males over 25 and females over 30 yo. Sergio said he always does it in people over 16-17 yo. The info is not outdated.
Great video tho.

 

[spark]

Piezo is surgical assistance. He said he does surgical assistance 100% of the time in males over 25 and females over 30 yo. Sergio said he always does it in people over 16-17 yo. The info is not outdated.
Great video tho.

yeah but by surgical assistance I've always heard full on surgery induced split like DOME

 

[NegativeNorwood]

yeah but by surgical assistance I've always heard full on surgery induced split like DOME

I guess the piezo cut is what most refer to as "minimally invasive protocol" when doing SARPE (I've read that term many times lately but couldn't figure out what was the minimally invasive part). If it is the piezo in comparison to the full surgery induced split like DOME, then it makes lots of sense.

 

[noprogressno]

I guess the piezo cut is what most refer to as "minimally invasive protocol" when doing SARPE (I've read that term many times lately but couldn't figure out what was the minimally invasive part). If it is the piezo in comparison to the full surgery induced split like DOME, then it makes lots of sense.

Piezo is much different than sarpe. Most of the time patient does not even need to be put to sleep afaik, it can be done in office settings under local anesthesia(so the patient can be awake)

 

[Deleted member 23695]

Not exactly. Screw drag is caused, among other factors, when the device is not properly placed and when you expand too rapidly. This is mentioned in the Ilya Lipkin video attached above (around minute 6). You pair this with short screws anchored purely in a vertical direction, uncut arms connected to the molars, and you get a recipe for disaster.

On the other hand if you use these modified MSE options, with long screws perpendicular to the bone, surgical assist with the piezo only in the midpalatal suture, placed precisely by the ortho based on CBCT scans, and turn it once a day... Then you get real results -> zygos, undereye support, some IPD gains, wide U shaped palate, fuller lips and airway benefits.

Give me 6 months and I will be proof of this.

is SARPE as good as MSE?

 

[jfbjfb]

is SARPE as good as MSE?

Depends on the definition of SARPE, as the definition may be a bit fuzzy. Let's classify it this way:

- DOME (Distraction Osteogenesis Maxillary Expansion): they cut the midpalatal suture as well as the pterygoid junction (think of it as a lefort 1 cut). A microimplant device is then installed to expand. Since the maxilla is disconnected from the cheekbones, the expansion helps at increasing the nasal floor, the volume of the alveolar bone, and of course also gives you a more rounded U shaped palate. The downsides are the somewhat invasive surgery, the absence of cheekbone expansion, and the nonparallel split of the suture. I would recommend only going for it if you have very wide cheekbones and a small mouth, which is uncommon. Sometimes it is also the go-to choice when you have poor sleep due to breathing issues. I think this image is quite illustrative:

Notice the uneven suture split and the lefort1 cuts. As a result, the cheekbones remain the same while the mouth gets bigger.

- SARPE (Surgically Assisted Rapid Palatal Expansion): it involves the same cuts as in the DOME. However, the expansion device is trash to put it simply. Instead of being based on microimplants anchored to the bone, it is a tooth-borne expander. You will get a wider maxilla because of the surgical split, but still, the dental expansion accompanied with tipping is non-negligible. I honestly see SARPE as an inferior choice compared to DOME, can't even think one dimension in which it is superior. As of reference, SARPE vs DOME devices:

- MSE (Maxillary Skeletal Expansion): by this I am referring to the traditional MSE, with screws to the bone and no surgical assist. This has been a popularized design that compared to the DOME and SARPE provides you with cheekbone expansion as the maxilla remains connected to the zygomas. Therefore, it is a solid choice for mid-face enhacement. Recommended if you have invisible cheekbones with a bizygomatic width smaller than the bitemporal width. MSE is riskier the older you get because you play a chances game where the suture may not split. For this reason it was said above that surgical assist ought to be a must if you are past your mid 20s. With MSE the suture is split almost perfectly in a parallel manner. Look at this beauty:

- BAME (Bone Anchored Maxillary Expansion): the improved MSE device released during the past few years that is being discussed in this post. By improved I mean that they cut the midpalatal suture with surgery to guarantee the split, longer screws perpendicular to the bone are used so that screw drag is minimized, and it is placed based on your 3D scans to minimize asymmetrical expansion. The BAME is basically MSE on steroids as it offers MSE's benefits while circumventing the associated issues. The bone anchoring is just something else:

As a sidenote, classifying expansion devices in this categories is sometimes vague due to the thin frontier between the typologies. Dr Ilya Lipkin may use the piezoelectric to force the midpalatal suture split, yet I doubt that he relies on 16 mm screws properly connected to the bone. It is my personal view that BAME is just better in 99% of situations. It mogs MSE and enhances your mid-face, which is pretty often required if you have a narrow palate.

 

[NegativeNorwood]

Depends on the definition of SARPE, as the definition may be a bit fuzzy. Let's classify it this way:

- DOME (Distraction Osteogenesis Maxillary Expansion): they cut the midpalatal suture as well as the pterygoid junction (think of it as a lefort 1 cut). A microimplant device is then installed to expand. Since the maxilla is disconnected from the cheekbones, the expansion helps at increasing the nasal floor, the volume of the alveolar bone, and of course also gives you a more rounded U shaped palate. The downsides are the somewhat invasive surgery, the absence of cheekbone expansion, and the nonparallel split of the suture. I would recommend only going for it if you have very wide cheekbones and a small mouth, which is uncommon. Sometimes it is also the go-to choice when you have poor sleep due to breathing issues. I think this image is quite illustrative:

View attachment 2058925
Notice the uneven suture split and the lefort1 cuts. As a result, the cheekbones remain the same while the mouth gets bigger.

- SARPE (Surgically Assisted Rapid Palatal Expansion): it involves the same cuts as in the DOME. However, the expansion device is trash to put it simply. Instead of being based on microimplants anchored to the bone, it is a tooth-borne expander. You will get a wider maxilla because of the surgical split, but still, the dental expansion accompanied with tipping is non-negligible. I honestly see SARPE as an inferior choice compared to DOME, can't even think one dimension in which it is superior. As of reference, SARPE vs DOME devices:
View attachment 2058927

- MSE (Maxillary Skeletal Expansion): by this I am referring to the traditional MSE, with screws to the bone and no surgical assist. This has been a popularized design that compared to the DOME and SARPE provides you with cheekbone expansion as the maxilla remains connected to the zygomas. Therefore, it is a solid choice for mid-face enhacement. Recommended if you have invisible cheekbones with a bizygomatic width smaller than the bitemporal width. MSE is riskier the older you get because you play a chances game where the suture may not split. For this reason it was said above that surgical assist ought to be a must if you are past your mid 20s. With MSE the suture is split almost perfectly in a parallel manner. Look at this beauty:
View attachment 2058936
- BAME (Bone Anchored Maxillary Expansion): the improved MSE device released during the past few years that is being discussed in this post. By improved I mean that they cut the midpalatal suture with surgery to guarantee the split, longer screws perpendicular to the bone are used so that screw drag is minimized, and it is placed based on your 3D scans to minimize asymmetrical expansion. The BAME is basically MSE on steroids as it offers MSE's benefits while circumventing the associated issues. The bone anchoring is just something else:
View attachment 2058947

As a sidenote, classifying expansion devices in this categories is sometimes vague due to the thin frontier between the typologies. Dr Ilya Lipkin may use the piezoelectric to force the midpalatal suture split, yet I doubt that he relies on 16 mm screws properly connected to the bone. It is my personal view that BAME is just better in 99% of situations. It mogs MSE and enhances your mid-face, which is pretty often required if you have a narrow palate.

Absolutely amazing post
I need something like DOME but without the nose widening. I was under the impression that SARPE can be done with the custom bone anchored devices (Power Expander, DS Xpander, etc) and an alar cinch, which sounds like the solution for that (only even palate expension, minimal nose widening), or DOME with an alar cinch too:

I've also read Juan Carlos Perez Varela vaguely mentioning "SABAME" (which I suppose means Surgically Assisted BAME). The advancements in palate expansion in the last few years are absolutely incredible tbh, there's so much to choose from

Sergio (a surgeon) said that SMARPE/SARME/SARPE/DOME/EASE are very similar with insignificant differences to him. I guess the key factor for the DOME expansion you showed may be the custom bone anchored device, the RPE normally used for SARPE sucks in comparison

Don’t mew if you plan on getting MSE

Disclaimer: I am not an orthotropics expert. Take this post with a grain of salt. Why shouldn’t you mew if you’re going to get MSE in the future? Mewing expands the palate by pushing the teeth farther apart, but it doesn’t expand the bone of the maxilla. On the contrary, MSE expands the lower...

looksmax.org

 

[NegativeNorwood]

@jfbjfb Did some extra reading and found that: DOME = Surgically Assisted MARPE = SMARPE. MSE is also a MARPE.
The option that doesn't provide midface expasion, cheekbone widening and only focuses in palate widening is SARPE. The shitty uneven expansion pattern is due to the RPE. Using the a custom bone anchored expander like the DS Xpander or Power Expander will give even expansion like the DOME example you posted.

The nomenclatures are extremely confusing, because one ortho may offer MSE with surgical assist and other may offer DOME, yet both are offering the same

 

[looksmaxxer14]

Do you have to be of any age to do this?

 

[Tasty17]

Depends on the definition of SARPE, as the definition may be a bit fuzzy. Let's classify it this way:

- DOME (Distraction Osteogenesis Maxillary Expansion): they cut the midpalatal suture as well as the pterygoid junction (think of it as a lefort 1 cut). A microimplant device is then installed to expand. Since the maxilla is disconnected from the cheekbones, the expansion helps at increasing the nasal floor, the volume of the alveolar bone, and of course also gives you a more rounded U shaped palate. The downsides are the somewhat invasive surgery, the absence of cheekbone expansion, and the nonparallel split of the suture. I would recommend only going for it if you have very wide cheekbones and a small mouth, which is uncommon. Sometimes it is also the go-to choice when you have poor sleep due to breathing issues. I think this image is quite illustrative:

View attachment 2058925
Notice the uneven suture split and the lefort1 cuts. As a result, the cheekbones remain the same while the mouth gets bigger.

- SARPE (Surgically Assisted Rapid Palatal Expansion): it involves the same cuts as in the DOME. However, the expansion device is trash to put it simply. Instead of being based on microimplants anchored to the bone, it is a tooth-borne expander. You will get a wider maxilla because of the surgical split, but still, the dental expansion accompanied with tipping is non-negligible. I honestly see SARPE as an inferior choice compared to DOME, can't even think one dimension in which it is superior. As of reference, SARPE vs DOME devices:
View attachment 2058927

- MSE (Maxillary Skeletal Expansion): by this I am referring to the traditional MSE, with screws to the bone and no surgical assist. This has been a popularized design that compared to the DOME and SARPE provides you with cheekbone expansion as the maxilla remains connected to the zygomas. Therefore, it is a solid choice for mid-face enhacement. Recommended if you have invisible cheekbones with a bizygomatic width smaller than the bitemporal width. MSE is riskier the older you get because you play a chances game where the suture may not split. For this reason it was said above that surgical assist ought to be a must if you are past your mid 20s. With MSE the suture is split almost perfectly in a parallel manner. Look at this beauty:
View attachment 2058936
- BAME (Bone Anchored Maxillary Expansion): the improved MSE device released during the past few years that is being discussed in this post. By improved I mean that they cut the midpalatal suture with surgery to guarantee the split, longer screws perpendicular to the bone are used so that screw drag is minimized, and it is placed based on your 3D scans to minimize asymmetrical expansion. The BAME is basically MSE on steroids as it offers MSE's benefits while circumventing the associated issues. The bone anchoring is just something else:
View attachment 2058947

As a sidenote, classifying expansion devices in this categories is sometimes vague due to the thin frontier between the typologies. Dr Ilya Lipkin may use the piezoelectric to force the midpalatal suture split, yet I doubt that he relies on 16 mm screws properly connected to the bone. It is my personal view that BAME is just better in 99% of situations. It mogs MSE and enhances your mid-face, which is pretty often required if you have a narrow palate.

Would you say my bizygomatic width is smaller than the bitemporal width?

 

[jfbjfb]

Absolutely amazing post
I need something like DOME but without the nose widening. I was under the impression that SARPE can be done with the custom bone anchored devices (Power Expander, DS Xpander, etc) and an alar cinch, which sounds like the solution for that (only even palate expension, minimal nose widening), or DOME with an alar cinch too:

I've also read Juan Carlos Perez Varela vaguely mentioning "SABAME" (which I suppose means Surgically Assisted BAME). The advancements in palate expansion in the last few years are absolutely incredible tbh, there's so much to choose from

Sergio (a surgeon) said that SMARPE/SARME/SARPE/DOME/EASE are very similar with insignificant differences to him. I guess the key factor for the DOME expansion you showed may be the custom bone anchored device, the RPE normally used for SARPE sucks in comparison

Don’t mew if you plan on getting MSE

Disclaimer: I am not an orthotropics expert. Take this post with a grain of salt. Why shouldn’t you mew if you’re going to get MSE in the future? Mewing expands the palate by pushing the teeth farther apart, but it doesn’t expand the bone of the maxilla. On the contrary, MSE expands the lower...

looksmax.org

I agree, DOME could also be paired with a BAME sort of expander, it would make more sense. The widening of the nose is definitely an issue, maybe the only downside of expansion. It is either the alar cinch you mention or rhino as far as I know.

Juan Carlos Pérez Varela is a demigod. I had not seen his results before, but this is just something else:

Look at this diastema, easily +10 mm.

@NegativeNorwood, are you considering having a consultation with Pérez Varela?

 

[jfbjfb]

Do you have to be of any age to do this?

Well, if you are below 16 or 18 at most then rapid palatal expansion could be useful. Between 20 and 25 a regular MSE would do the job, and afterwards you pretty much need surgical assistance to ensure the suture split

 

[jfbjfb]

View attachment 2059137

Would you say my bizygomatic width is smaller than the bitemporal width?

Hard to tell from the image, they seem pretty even. This is something you can deduce just by looking at the mirror

 

[NegativeNorwood]

I agree, DOME could also be paired with a BAME sort of expander, it would make more sense. The widening of the nose is definitely an issue, maybe the only downside of expansion. It is either the alar cinch you mention or rhino as far as I know.

Juan Carlos Pérez Varela is a demigod. I had not seen his results before, but this is just something else:
View attachment 2059138
View attachment 2059140
Look at this diastema, easily +10 mm.

@NegativeNorwood, are you considering having a consultation with Pérez Varela?

SARPE with Power Expander (or any BAME style expander) and alar cinch should be the winning combo in theory (for avoiding nasal and cheekbone widening and achieving even palatal expansion).

Varela is the most blackpilled ortho in the whole country AFAIK, he's SEDO's president and invented the Power Expander himself. The case you posted is a 16mm expansion in an oldcel dude. Look at the expansion pattern in the 4th slide, almost completely even:

I'll have an in person consult with him but in a few months, need to get some shit together first

 

[looksmaxxer14]

Well, if you are below 16 or 18 at most then rapid palatal expansion could be useful. Between 20 and 25 a regular MSE would do the job, and afterwards you pretty much need surgical assistance to ensure the suture split

18 rn, wanting to do something like this but idk if you can even get this in the balkans

 

[jfbjfb]

SARPE with Power Expander (or any BAME style expander) and alar cinch should be the winning combo in theory (for avoiding nasal and cheekbone widening and achieving even palatal expansion).

Varela is the most blackpilled ortho in the whole country AFAIK, he's SEDO's president and invented the Power Expander himself. The case you posted is a 16mm expansion in an oldcel dude. Look at the expansion pattern in the 4th slide, almost completely even:

I'll have an in person consult with him but in a few months, need to get some shit together first

Truly amazing.

I just went over his stories and it is unreal. Best of luck man, you will be in good hands for sure

 

[Tasty17]

Hard to tell from the image, they seem pretty even. This is something you can deduce just by looking at the mirror

Looks pretty even in the mirror too. Should I not get any expander without DOME then?

 

[jfbjfb]

Looks pretty even in the mirror too. Should I not get any expander without DOME then?

I would still go for an MSE-type of expansion because it is generally accepted that for aesthetics the bizygomatic width should be slightly larger than the bitemporal width. Not too much that you end up with balloon face, but a few more mm of cheekbone would benefit you imo

 

[Tasty17]

 

[HighClassMaxing]

The device is not tooth-borne. It’s attached directly to bone. The expansion is fully skeletal unlike MSE. I see this mogging MSE results to oblivion.

lifefuel

this channel is based af
have to watch that shit like a movie

 

[noprogressno]

The BAME is basically MSE on steroids as it offers MSE's benefits while circumventing the associated issues. The bone anchoring is just something else:
View attachment 2058947

Wow, this is truly on another level...
Do you think it can be combined with protraction?
Those screws look very long, thus stable...

 

[LebenistneHure]

Is there a possibility of affecting IPD with such long screws?

 

[jfbjfb]

Wow, this is truly on another level...
Do you think it can be combined with protraction?
Those screws look very long, thus stable...

If traditional MSEs can go along with protraction, then BAME is even better suited in my opinion as it provides more rigidity.

I will get protraction myself, only that the anchorage will be with separate microimplants and the expander will stay there for 3 months post expansion to stabilize the bone.

 

[jfbjfb]

Is there a possibility of affecting IPD with such long screws?

MSE is said to rotate rather than result in horizontal displacements. This is why the maxilla expands why more than your IPD. It is all about the fulcrum from the frontozygomatic suture, close to the outer part of the eye. Check this out: 'Why MSE gives minimal IPD expansion'
https://looksmax.org/threads/why-mse-gives-minimal-ipd-expansion.123915/post-4625911

I highly doubt long screws can have any impact on that

 

[noprogressno]

If traditional MSEs can go along with protraction, then BAME is even better suited in my opinion as it provides more rigidity.

I will get protraction myself, only that the anchorage will be with separate microimplants and the expander will stay there for 3 months post expansion to stabilize the bone.

What kind of microimplants will you use for protraction? And where are you planning to get this type of treatment if thats not personal?

 

[jfbjfb]

What kind of microimplants will you use for protraction? And where are you planning to get this type of treatment if thats not personal?

From what I could understand they will be titanium screws placed both in the palate and in the alveolar bone. We will see because last day it was not made fully clear to me.

My ortho is located in the north of Spain to put it simply. I can give more details through pms

 

[Tasty17]

MSE is said to rotate rather than result in horizontal displacements. This is why the maxilla expands why more than your IPD. It is all about the fulcrum from the frontozygomatic suture, close to the outer part of the eye. Check this out: 'Why MSE gives minimal IPD expansion'
https://looksmax.org/threads/why-mse-gives-minimal-ipd-expansion.123915/post-4625911

I highly doubt long screws can have any impact on that

Yeah, I need more IPD, you think the FME will be better for that?

 

[jfbjfb]

Yeah, I need more IPD, you think the FME will be better for that?

Not really, the fulcrum would still be the same. Changing the anchorage will not cause the translation movement that you may need.

After time I am starting to despise indirect methods to confront a problem. Just like I was years hoping for mewing to widen my maxilla only to get minimal gains, if IPD bothers you better to not waste time looking for solutions to other problems. My sincere recommendation would be to go for OBO then.

 

[Tasty17]

Last minutes are about the FME.

Bailey Seaman Shows His MSE! JawCast #31 Live

TikTok legend Bailey Seaman shows off his new MSE bling and diastema. Tells us all about his experience with MSE, both good and bad.MAKE WISDOM TEETH GREAT A...

www.youtube.com

 

[rg1235]

The FME is also interesting because of the facepuller they developed. Apparently it can give you CCW for the first time ever. It pulls up on a positive angle and directly attaches to the FME. I could need that for some midface „shortening“.

How do we request this facegenic facemask device? Is there a link I can send my ortho?

 

[HentaiMaxxer]

Show me one person that looks better after Mse. TRICK QUESTION U FUCKIN CANT

 

[Deleted member 20631]

Good post very insightful

 

[Deleted member 23391]

Oh yeah, another thing, if the FME manages to split both the ANS and PNS equally, then it is definitely the best device out there. MSE has a tendency to expand the ANS much more compared to the PNS, which makes it very inefficient in increasing airway volume and aesthetic expansion.

We need a device that expans the PNS more than the ANS so you get all the cheekbone and airway benefits without blowing out your alar base.

 

[Luis]

@Tasty17 who's offering this device?
also, there already are fully skeletal devices such as the TPD or the Power Expander

also, is MSE really tooth-borne, or is the teeth movement the result of not having done a surgical assist and relying on the device alone (or with corticopuncture) to split the suture?

@NegativeNorwood I've heard it mentioned (from some ortho on YouTube don't remember exactly) that the arms attaching to the molars are mostly for alignment and placement, and not to actually direct any force

I think I will contact the german EASE clinic and ask them this directly

Sorry; who is the German EASE clinic ? Please could you PM me? Serious ask as my palate is only 32mm and I struggle breathing

 

[Deleted member 29403]

The device is not tooth-borne. It’s attached directly to bone. The expansion is fully skeletal unlike MSE. I see this mogging MSE results to oblivion.

yea but can you attach a facemask to it? the reason MSE sounds promising is only when it is paired with facemask at 30 degree ccw angle. I like the way the FME expands but if you could have hooks on it for facemask it would be S+ tier