Nootropics are Cope [Exposed]

[davidlazaryako]

Exposing Bullshit Nootropics

some of you wont like to hear this, but it has to be said. stop wasting your money on bullshit nootropics

most of the “nootropic stack” shit people run is pure midwit optimization. caffeine, l-theanine, ashwagandha, bacopa, rhodiola, lion’s mane, racetams, creatine, modafinil, and even newer ones like TAK-653 all get treated like advanced cognitive enhancement when the effects are small as fuck compared to actual hard prescription stimulants.


im not saying these things do nothing. they do something. they just dont do much relative to the real stuff.


caffeine works through adenosine blockade so you feel more awake and slightly more locked in, but once tolerance builds (happens fast) youre mostly just removing withdrawal. sleep quality drops if you dose late and anxiety/cortisol rise in a lot of people. the “focus” is mostly just not being tired. studies consistently show the cognitive benefit is modest and largely disappears with regular use. l-theanine is the classic “smooth the caffeine” add-on, it reduces some jitters and can feel calmer but the actual cognitive benefit is small and inconsistent across trials. ashwagandha is the cortisol cope, some human studies show modest reductions in stress and anxiety scores while the testosterone and cognitive enhancement claims are mostly marketing. effects are real but weak and often fade with continued use.

bacopa has some slow mild memory data in trials but takes months and GI sides are common. rhodiola gives slight fatigue reduction in a few studies. lion’s mane has NGF hype with almost no strong human cognitive data. creatine is one of the few with decent evidence for small cognitive benefits especially if deficient or vegetarian. racetams are mostly underwhelming in healthy people according to the better controlled studies.


modafinil is the same shit. there is no motivation and raw drive compared to amphetamines because it promotes wakefulness more than it forces dopamine the way adderall or vyvanse do. the research backs a solid wake-promoting effect but the “smart drug” claims dont exist for healthy users.

TAK-653 (osavampator / NBI-1065845) is one of the more interesting newer ones. AMPA receptor positive allosteric modulator with basically zero direct agonism so it only boosts the signal when glutamate is already present. animal data looks decent for cognition and antidepressant-like effects. healthy human volunteer studies showed some stimulant-like pharmacodynamic effects (better tracking performance, increased saccadic peak velocity etc). its in proper clinical development for depression with phase 2 data. still not in the same league as hard stimulants for raw focus, motivation, and cognitive endurance in healthy users.

semax is the russian peptide people hype for focus and neuroprotection. its an ACTH(4-10) analog that upregulates BDNF and NGF in the hippocampus and cortex in animal studies, and one small human fMRI study showed changes in the default mode network after intranasal dosing. russian clinical use exists mainly for stroke recovery and cognitive impairment with some positive reports, but western-style controlled cognitive trials in healthy people are basically nonexistent. the BDNF mechanism is interesting and the effects feel real to some users, but its still mild to moderate at best and nowhere near the reliable drive and cognitive endurance of hard stimulants.

TAK-653 (osavampator / NBI-1065845) is one of the more interesting newer ones. AMPA receptor positive allosteric modulator with basically zero direct agonism so it only boosts the signal when glutamate is already present. animal data looks decent for cognition and antidepressant-like effects. healthy human volunteer studies showed some stimulant-like pharmacodynamic effects (better tracking performance, increased saccadic peak velocity etc). its in proper clinical development for depression with phase 2 data. still not in the same league as hard stimulants for raw focus, motivation, and cognitive endurance in healthy users.




all of the above give small to moderate, temporary, or highly individual effects. prescription stimulants like adderall and vyvanse hit dopamine and norepinephrine hard and deliver large, reliable, all-day changes in focus, motivation, and cognitive endurance for most responders. the gap is massive and the research on stimulant effect sizes in ADHD and healthy populations makes this obvious.




people run the basic stacks and modafinil because theyre more accessible and feel like theyre doing something. its not pure placebo, but calling any of this serious cognitive enhancement next to the hard stimulants is cope.


sleep, training, diet, and not being a coomer will still outperform most of this. the mild and moderate nootropics are just the entry to mid level. the real difference starts when you move into compounds that actually hit the catecholamine systems hard.

@resting @Stalker @tansel @foidslayer5000

 

[Stalker]

guide after guide after guide wowie

 

[TopTierIncel42]

compared to amphetamines

No shit?

Amphetamines are hard narcotics, nootropics are mild enhancers.

 

[davidlazaryako]

No shit?

Amphetamines are hard narcotics, nootropics are mild enhancers.

They make no difference, going to the gym once every 2 days will release more dopamine and enhance cognition more than these nootropics. Its all a scam promoted by grifters to make money when none of it works

 

[seeking]

90% of those don't even cross the BBB, it's all placebo

 

[LANCEPRETTYBOY]

bookmarked

 

[foidslayer5000]

Exposing Bullshit Nootropics

some of you wont like to hear this, but it has to be said. stop wasting your money on bullshit nootropics

most of the “nootropic stack” shit people run is pure midwit optimization. caffeine, l-theanine, ashwagandha, bacopa, rhodiola, lion’s mane, racetams, creatine, modafinil, and even newer ones like TAK-653 all get treated like advanced cognitive enhancement when the effects are small as fuck compared to actual hard prescription stimulants.


im not saying these things do nothing. they do something. they just dont do much relative to the real stuff.


caffeine works through adenosine blockade so you feel more awake and slightly more locked in, but once tolerance builds (happens fast) youre mostly just removing withdrawal. sleep quality drops if you dose late and anxiety/cortisol rise in a lot of people. the “focus” is mostly just not being tired. studies consistently show the cognitive benefit is modest and largely disappears with regular use. l-theanine is the classic “smooth the caffeine” add-on, it reduces some jitters and can feel calmer but the actual cognitive benefit is small and inconsistent across trials. ashwagandha is the cortisol cope, some human studies show modest reductions in stress and anxiety scores while the testosterone and cognitive enhancement claims are mostly marketing. effects are real but weak and often fade with continued use.
View attachment 5487843

bacopa has some slow mild memory data in trials but takes months and GI sides are common. rhodiola gives slight fatigue reduction in a few studies. lion’s mane has NGF hype with almost no strong human cognitive data. creatine is one of the few with decent evidence for small cognitive benefits especially if deficient or vegetarian. racetams are mostly underwhelming in healthy people according to the better controlled studies.


modafinil is the same shit. there is no motivation and raw drive compared to amphetamines because it promotes wakefulness more than it forces dopamine the way adderall or vyvanse do. the research backs a solid wake-promoting effect but the “smart drug” claims dont exist for healthy users.
View attachment 5487846

TAK-653 (osavampator / NBI-1065845) is one of the more interesting newer ones. AMPA receptor positive allosteric modulator with basically zero direct agonism so it only boosts the signal when glutamate is already present. animal data looks decent for cognition and antidepressant-like effects. healthy human volunteer studies showed some stimulant-like pharmacodynamic effects (better tracking performance, increased saccadic peak velocity etc). its in proper clinical development for depression with phase 2 data. still not in the same league as hard stimulants for raw focus, motivation, and cognitive endurance in healthy users.


all of the above give small to moderate, temporary, or highly individual effects. prescription stimulants like adderall and vyvanse hit dopamine and norepinephrine hard and deliver large, reliable, all-day changes in focus, motivation, and cognitive endurance for most responders. the gap is massive and the research on stimulant effect sizes in ADHD and healthy populations makes this obvious.


people run the basic stacks and modafinil because theyre more accessible and feel like theyre doing something. its not pure placebo, but calling any of this serious cognitive enhancement next to the hard stimulants is cope.


sleep, training, diet, and not being a coomer will still outperform most of this. the mild and moderate nootropics are just the entry to mid level. the real difference starts when you move into compounds that actually hit the catecholamine systems hard.

@resting @Stalker @tansel @foidslayer5000

brb reading this actual high iq content

 

[aac21]

semax moggs

 

[tansel]

too many words man

 

[Yalbadoth]

I get your point, but let’s take the case of caffeine. I only really ever used it when I down a monster or redbull with a snus before i do an exam/test (yes i know nicotine also has similar effects so I cannot really fully credit caffeine). It has a mild yet noticeable effect, I write faster, I think more coherently, of course something like adderall will have a greater effect but its just not viable (I wish I had access to it). You do mention all of this but you fail to see the nuance, I think generally people just misuse caffeine, they either rely on it to wake them up in the morning or they imagine it as something that can increase their intelligence or strength and have a utopian fantasy where they are Eddie Morra in limitless (only proper pharma/peptides can do that to a degree, along with things like DnB training etc.)and you hold a cheap and widely accessible stimulant to the same standard as these substances when really they (accessible nootropics) are best for short term boosts when needed most and is exactly how they should be used, it is not their downside it is their strength. This reply is very longwinded when my point is just use caffeine wisely and the nuance in regards to other nootropics/stimulants. Im not denying anything you said, i'm just saying your being too idealistic, anyways unless you are prescribed adderall or the likes, it would just be better to spend your money on gear or lm in general rather than proper nootropics, it matters more in this world. Furthermore, there really isn’t any downside to the use of caffeine in particular, so why not use it? In-fact, if you look at the views of Ray Peat, he even sees it as almost a kind of nutrient. It’s also not esoteric knowledge or hard to do so not really cope, it’s part of our culture to consume caffeine (although the morning coffee culture is probably hurting the nootropic effects caffeine will give you when you need it), buying pre-made nootropic stacks from your local holistic health store is cope though. You didn’t even mention methylene blue as well but i dont know enough about that to decide its cope status (probably a cope though).

 

[davidlazaryako]

I get your point, but let’s take the case of caffeine. I only really ever used it when I down a monster or redbull with a snus before i do an exam/test (yes i know nicotine also has similar effects so I cannot really fully credit caffeine). It has a mild yet noticeable effect, I write faster, I think more coherently, of course something like adderall will have a greater effect but its just not viable (I wish I had access to it). You do mention all of this but you fail to see the nuance, I think generally people just misuse caffeine, they either rely on it to wake them up in the morning or they imagine it as something that can increase their intelligence or strength and have a utopian fantasy where they are Eddie Morra in limitless (only proper pharma/peptides can do that to a degree, along with things like DnB training etc.)and you hold a cheap and widely accessible stimulant to the same standard as these substances when really they (accessible nootropics) are best for short term boosts when needed most and is exactly how they should be used, it is not their downside it is their strength. This reply is very longwinded when my point is just use caffeine wisely and the nuance in regards to other nootropics/stimulants. Im not denying anything you said, i'm just saying your being too idealistic, anyways unless you are prescribed adderall or the likes, it would just be better to spend your money on gear or lm in general rather than proper nootropics, it matters more in this world. Furthermore, there really isn’t any downside to the use of caffeine in particular, so why not use it? In-fact, if you look at the views of Ray Peat, he even sees it as almost a kind of nutrient. It’s also not esoteric knowledge or hard to do so not really cope, it’s part of our culture to consume caffeine (although the morning coffee culture is probably hurting the nootropic effects caffeine will give you when you need it), buying pre-made nootropic stacks from your local holistic health store is cope though. You didn’t even mention methylene blue as well but i dont know enough about that to decide its cope status (probably a cope though).

If you did 20 pushups before your exam, it would have the same effect.

I will add methylene blue to the thread though, good point to bring up <- Nvm I can't its been too long to edit it

 

[Yalbadoth]

If you did 20 pushups before your exam, it would have the same effect.

I would not say so, as I said I always did it with a snus and that combination kept my heart rate up much longer than short exercise would, not to mention the other effects. Im not asserting it as a superdrug, i’m just saying it has its place.