One year post-op Bimax and unhappy. Have consulted with many of the prominent surgeons in this forum for revision. Sharing my exp, requesting advice.

[savemefromthisfate]

Hello All,

About one year ago, I had bimax surgery without genio in the U.S to correct a Class II Overbite. It was fully covered by insurance. I posted my results here, however many people roasted me, and I ended up deleting my account. The result is significantly better than my before, however, I am still unhappy with the outcome. Since I finally obtained a job, I have consulted with several well-known surgeons that are mentioned in this forum. I'll probably include some pictures of my current result as well. These are my experiences so far:

Pagnoni:
I consulted with him for Infraorbital Rim Implants and Potential LJS revision. After providing him with my 3D CT scan, he was very insistent that I do not need a revision surgery, and that genioplasty will be enough. I'm also not sure if the custom Infraorbital Rim Implants will be enough to satisfy my expectations, but I think I definitely need them. I've had two consultations with him so far.

Ramieri:
He took one look at my before/after ceph and suggested LJS revision after another round of braces and premolar extractions. He suggested that genioplasty would just be a "camouflage" option, but I'm not sure about his opinion since it was a very quick consultation, and I also made a very poor first impression since it was a 6 AM appointment, and I had forgotten to send him my surgical documentation until the day of. He's very unresponsive to my emails and I don't think I'll be able to proceed with him.

Raffaini:
Requested a consultation with him, with all relevant surgical documentation sent. His assistant told me that he is declining my case, because according to him "I don't need additional surgery". Honestly, I think the true reason he declined to allow me to consult with him is because in my initial email I may have offended him by jokingly referring to myself as "Spiritually Italian", due to the fact that I was aware he charges foreigners extra.

Zarrinbal:
Sent him my Surgical Documentation and a request for an initial consultation. He got back to me a few weeks later saying that revision isn't necessary, and that chin wing, or genio with a bone graft to fill in the labiomental fold would be enough. Told him I was seriously considering revision, but he confirmed that in his opinion it wasn't necessary.

Unnamed Doctor in California:
I want to gatekeep this Doctor, because he seems very genuine in my opinion, and it's not like any of you will ever be able to afford him. He even invited me into his own home. If you really want his name, then feel free to DM me. He trained under Dr. Sinn, and is close friends with Conceancig. He mentioned that only him and Conceancig can perform a 5 piece mandibular distraction. He provided me with a plan for genioplasty and a LJS revision, and IMO, there doesn't seem to be a huge difference. The only issue is, I'm not even sure if the soft-tissue changes in the genioplasty VTO he gave me are even feasible. I'm seriously considering working him, but he wants 15k for the genioplasty, so I'll have to wait a bit.


So that's it so far. I have a few more consults coming up. I have one with Taban for eye area in about a week. I'll try to attach a picture of my current post-op profile, infraorbital region, and the Genioplasty and LJS VTO provided to me by the doctor in California. Looking forward to hearing your constructive advice.

Btw, in the Genio model, the first row is genio only, second row is LJS + genio.

 

[tragic]

pathetic genetics

 

[martinsman]

pathetic genetics

go away stinky man , get a shower

 

[soover4me]

Thought post op was pre op ngl

 

[MTNAscension2]

Thought post op was pre op ngl

This tbh

 

[savemefromthisfate]

Thought post op was pre op ngl

Yeah not sure what to do. Everyone hypes up Pagnoni here but this guy is not willing to change his mind at all about doing revision LJS on me.

 

[panfacemogger]

Go to Turkey and get revision surgery there. Consult with Erol Cansiz or Celal and ask them about revision surgery. From what I know and see from your pictures is that you still need LJS + genio. A fat graft to ur eye area would make it look a lot better too.Also ignore these faggots here saying it's over, report them, this is a subforum in which people need to give serious advice and not their nihilistic toxic shit.

 

[savemefromthisfate]

Go to Turkey and get revision surgery there. Consult with Erol Cansiz or Celal and ask them about revision surgery. From what I know and see from your pictures is that you still need LJS + genio. A fat graft to ur eye area would make it look a lot better too.Also ignore these faggots here saying it's over, report them, this is a subforum in which people need to give serious advice and not their nihilistic toxic shit.

Turkiye risk of botch is too high. Do you know any other Euro surgeons besides the one's I've alr mentioned consulting with? I'm looking into someone from France right now.

 

[longjohnmong]

Why does your post xray look like you didn't have surgery?

And you can't just get LJS without decompensation as there'd be nowhere to move your lower jaw to, right?

 

[savemefromthisfate]

Why does your post xray look like you didn't have surgery?

And you can't just get LJS without decompensation as there'd be nowhere to move your lower jaw to, right?

No if I get revision LJS I'll probably need to get premolars extracted. And actually you are right. The Post-SX ceph I posted is still Pre-Op. The plates aren't visible. Let me see if I can find the Post-Op scan.

 

[savemefromthisfate]

Here's the Post-Op Ceph. And I'll add the Pre-Op one too just so the contrast is more visible.

 

[Lebgfinal]

pathetic genetics

Retards like you should be beheaded
Low iq insults, if you cant help, dont reply

 

[Gerardwayfan]

did u suffer from sleep apnea or stuff like that? did u experience any health benefits from the surgery or not?

 

[savemefromthisfate]

did u suffer from sleep apnea or stuff like that? did u experience any health benefits from the surgery or not?

Nah I didn't notice any functional issues. My airway improved and my bite is fixed, but it's not a huge difference.

 

[tragic]

Retards like you should be beheaded
Low iq insults, if you cant help, dont reply

WHATS UR ADVICE THEN SMUG FAGGOT? THIS GUY NEED OBO + IMPLANTS ASAP VISIT GIANT HE WILL SAVE U IDK AB THE JAW BRO BUT THAT EYE AREA IS FUCKED CYCLOPS + BUG EYES + NARROW SKULL GO BACK TO REDDIT LEBGFINAL FUCK U PUSSY

 

[savemefromthisfate]

Retards like you should be beheaded
Low iq insults, if you cant help, dont reply

It's okay. Most of the users here are just children it seems.

 

[Dropdown666]

WHATS UR ADVICE THEN SMUG FAGGOT? THIS GUY NEED OBO + IMPLANTS ASAP VISIT GIANT HE WILL SAVE U IDK AB THE JAW BRO BUT THAT EYE AREA IS FUCKED CYCLOPS + BUG EYES + NARROW SKULL GO BACK TO REDDIT LEBGFINAL FUCK U PUSSY

Negative IQ

Here's the Post-Op Ceph. And I'll add the Pre-Op one too just so the contrast is more visible.

What were your movements initially ?

 

[savemefromthisfate]

Negative IQ


What were your movements initially ?

5mm upper jaw, 10mm lower jaw, no genio.

 

[moreroidsmoredates]

5mm upper jaw, 10mm lower jaw, no genio.

You had a bluepilled surgeon before?

How did your side look pre op?

 

[Dropdown666]

5mm upper jaw, 10mm lower jaw, no genio.

no rotation?



IDK if revision is worth it. If you only go lower they have to extract healthy teeth and there’s a risk that the gap doesn’t close which means that your overjet doesn’t increase. Maybe it’s better to camouflage considering risk-benefit ratio. An issue is that Genioplasty doesn’t move B point, so your labiomental fold would increase (even with grafting).

 

[Tenshi]

damn bro you got that stallone eye area of death, brutal

but yeah these bimax with surgeons covered by insurance usually are shit, my mate also got screwed with one and now he's looking into implants.

Gotta be a really good surgeon cuz bimax revisions seem like a difficult procedure

 

[TheMilkMan]

I'd trust Pagnoni if I were you, he's an ethical doctor and wont try to sell you anything you don't need. He'll straight up tell you if something you want to do is a waste of money or not. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions about him.

 

[Meister!]

DM me.

 

[savemefromthisfate]

I'd trust Pagnoni if I were you, he's an ethical doctor and wont try to sell you anything you don't need. He'll straight up tell you if something you want to do is a waste of money or not. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions about him.

Dang, yeah I'll probably DM you at some point then. I'm a little hesitant about him bc he's a part-time boob surgeon and during the consultation when we discussed infraorbital rim implants he wasn't being scientific at all.

But I know for a fact that he has done revision bimax surgeries before, so there must be some reason besides laziness that he must have thought genio would be enough. And I was also very adamant about being able to spend shit loads of money on revision but he assured me I wouldn't need to do that. Zarrinbal doesn't seem like the lazy type either and he effectively said the same thing. .

But also then again, Zbal, actually hasn't ever seen me, and I'm assuming his suggestion is based purely on my 3D CT Scan or Post-Op Ceph. The Ceph might be inaccurate tho bc of chin stand.

 

[savemefromthisfate]

Pagnoni is probably going to ignore my follow up emails unless it's about scheduling and paying his deposit, but I remember the rough genio mockups he showed me looked decent.

 

[savemefromthisfate]

damn bro you got that stallone eye area of death, brutal

but yeah these bimax with surgeons covered by insurance usually are shit, my mate also got screwed with one and now he's looking into implants.

Gotta be a really good surgeon cuz bimax revisions seem like a difficult procedure

It's my fault actually. I should have been more vocal about what I wanted. I wasn't involved in the planning at all, but I could have been if I wasn't such a retard. He's not a bad doctor, and he told me he's willing to do a genioplasty which would also be free, but I'd rather pay out of pocket for an aesthetic focused surgeon.

 

[Mrxshmallow]

Well, why you don’t listen to what experts in this field say? I would say that, a genio or chin wing are reasonable options.

The pain, recover and price for bimax isn’t a joke. If your occlusion or medical issues are fixed, why not throw those or an implant to get a good jaw? It’s not likely the best option, but it can work and be fairly quicker.

Obviously the implant is after genio or chin wing.

You have worse issues than the jaw rn, your eyes are worse than mine; bug-eyed, lacking fat on under eye area.. you need infra + Supra + cantoplasthy or pexy.

 

[Mrxshmallow]

I'd trust Pagnoni if I were you, he's an ethical doctor and wont try to sell you anything you don't need. He'll straight up tell you if something you want to do is a waste of money or not. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions about him.

Exactly. He adviced me against bimax (told I totally don’t need it) and even against angle implant regardless of my “plan" and was very supportive.

Only thing: I had to wait a bit to get into studio haha.

Most people have to understand that bimax is mostly for health issues and related to recession, if you’re not hugely or recessed at all, it mostly affects side, and not front and also: you can risk being dogmaxxed with too much movement.

Implants, genio AND some filler are good solutions. Chin Wing is also a less invasive bimax basically, but from what I know the results are hit or miss.

Btw, OP is LTN and can improve yes to MTN level, but I see it nearly impossible to reach the HTN range (you need hugely recessed or a low MTN-MTN base imo).

 

[savemefromthisfate]

Btw, OP is LTN and can improve yes to MTN level, but I see it nearly impossible to reach the HTN range (you need hugely recessed or a low MTN-MTN base imo).

I agree that I'm probably LTN currently, but even now, I'm able to get up to 20 likes per day on Tinder in mostly white areas if I fraud my pics correctly and larp as a mentalcel schizo. So maybe just a few mm of bone away from being MTN, God willing.

 

[Mrxshmallow]

I agree that I'm probably LTN currently, but even now, I'm able to get up to 20 likes per day on Tinder in mostly white areas if I fraud my pics correctly and larp as a mentalcel schizo. So maybe just a few mm of bone away from being MTN, God willing.

Well, atleast you are reasonable. When I started this journey, I didn’t know anything and I was kinda a bit off, thought was worse than what I was, didn’t know harmony/ratios:falios and thought you just need a few surgery to become Chad's haha.

Now it’s better to be practical, realistic and plan things properly regarding your goals. Also, researching about surgeons, materials and asking for lot of B/A, and morphs is the correct way to choose one.

LTN get likes and matches? Uh? How you fraud? I think MTN can live a normal life and get once in a while laid, but no halo.

 

[savemefromthisfate]

Well, atleast you are reasonable. When I started this journey, I didn’t know anything and I was kinda a bit off, thought was worse than what I was, didn’t know harmony/ratios:falios and thought you just need a few surgery to become Chad's haha.

Now it’s better to be practical, realistic and plan things properly regarding your goals. Also, researching about surgeons, materials and asking for lot of B/A, and morphs is the correct way to choose one.

LTN get likes and matches? Uh? How you fraud? I think MTN can live a normal life and get once in a while laid, but no halo.

Lol nah, matches are a diff story. Most likes are overweight or trans, but there are a definitely a few decent girls in there. But even if I match with the decent girls, it's difficult to get a response. I'm able to see the likes on Tinder Web for free using a script. Usually the only girls who respond are the goth/fatherless type girls. I don't look that bad in some angles, and I squintmaxx in my photos.

 

[savemefromthisfate]

But it's still an improvement from before surgery IMO. Before bimax, I was larping as 6'4 (I'm like 6'0 on a good day) and still only getting 1-2 likes from trans and overweight girls lmfao.

 

[savemefromthisfate]

no rotation?



IDK if revision is worth it. If you only go lower they have to extract healthy teeth and there’s a risk that the gap doesn’t close which means that your overjet doesn’t increase. Maybe it’s better to camouflage considering risk-benefit ratio. An issue is that Genioplasty doesn’t move B point, so your labiomental fold would increase (even with grafting).

I don't think there was any rotation since my Occlusal Plane was nearly flat. I am also concerned about the genioplasty increasing fold depth, but Pagnoni and Cali doctor are telling me they can manage it somehow by making a high cut and suturing muscles. It sounds like bullshit to me, but Idk. Zbal also recommended genioplasty or chin wing with graft, but advised strongly against pursuing revision Jaw Surgery.

Is there really a risk of the gap not closing if braces are used? I'm already missing a premolar on one side of face.

 

[dough]

Consult gunson, alfaro, and the most important Sunil richardson

 

[Dropdown666]

Is there really a risk of the gap not closing if braces are used? I'm already missing a premolar on one side of face.

Yes, there’s even a user in this forum where this happend.

 

[Mrxshmallow]

Lol nah, matches are a diff story. Most likes are overweight or trans, but there are a definitely a few decent girls in there. But even if I match with the decent girls, it's difficult to get a response. I'm able to see the likes on Tinder Web for free using a script. Usually the only girls who respond are the goth/fatherless type girls. I don't look that bad in some angles, and I squintmaxx in my photos.

Well, what’s this?

 

[savemefromthisfate]

Well, what’s this?

whats wut?

 

[Mrxshmallow]

whats wut?

The script

 

[savemefromthisfate]

The script

I dm'ed you. It'll probably be patched soon, but you can still see the photos of the people who liked you.

 

[highT]

5mm upper jaw, 10mm lower jaw, no genio.

you must have previously had absolutely no jaw whatsoever before your first bimax, because those are actually pretty substantial movements.

 

[normie_joe]

Hello All,

About one year ago, I had bimax surgery without genio in the U.S to correct a Class II Overbite. It was fully covered by insurance. I posted my results here, however many people roasted me, and I ended up deleting my account. The result is significantly better than my before, however, I am still unhappy with the outcome. Since I finally obtained a job, I have consulted with several well-known surgeons that are mentioned in this forum. I'll probably include some pictures of my current result as well. These are my experiences so far:

Pagnoni:
I consulted with him for Infraorbital Rim Implants and Potential LJS revision. After providing him with my 3D CT scan, he was very insistent that I do not need a revision surgery, and that genioplasty will be enough. I'm also not sure if the custom Infraorbital Rim Implants will be enough to satisfy my expectations, but I think I definitely need them. I've had two consultations with him so far.

Ramieri:
He took one look at my before/after ceph and suggested LJS revision after another round of braces and premolar extractions. He suggested that genioplasty would just be a "camouflage" option, but I'm not sure about his opinion since it was a very quick consultation, and I also made a very poor first impression since it was a 6 AM appointment, and I had forgotten to send him my surgical documentation until the day of. He's very unresponsive to my emails and I don't think I'll be able to proceed with him.

Raffaini:
Requested a consultation with him, with all relevant surgical documentation sent. His assistant told me that he is declining my case, because according to him "I don't need additional surgery". Honestly, I think the true reason he declined to allow me to consult with him is because in my initial email I may have offended him by jokingly referring to myself as "Spiritually Italian", due to the fact that I was aware he charges foreigners extra.

Zarrinbal:
Sent him my Surgical Documentation and a request for an initial consultation. He got back to me a few weeks later saying that revision isn't necessary, and that chin wing, or genio with a bone graft to fill in the labiomental fold would be enough. Told him I was seriously considering revision, but he confirmed that in his opinion it wasn't necessary.

Unnamed Doctor in California:
I want to gatekeep this Doctor, because he seems very genuine in my opinion, and it's not like any of you will ever be able to afford him. He even invited me into his own home. If you really want his name, then feel free to DM me. He trained under Dr. Sinn, and is close friends with Conceancig. He mentioned that only him and Conceancig can perform a 5 piece mandibular distraction. He provided me with a plan for genioplasty and a LJS revision, and IMO, there doesn't seem to be a huge difference. The only issue is, I'm not even sure if the soft-tissue changes in the genioplasty VTO he gave me are even feasible. I'm seriously considering working him, but he wants 15k for the genioplasty, so I'll have to wait a bit.


So that's it so far. I have a few more consults coming up. I have one with Taban for eye area in about a week. I'll try to attach a picture of my current post-op profile, infraorbital region, and the Genioplasty and LJS VTO provided to me by the doctor in California. Looking forward to hearing your constructive advice.

Btw, in the Genio model, the first row is genio only, second row is LJS + genio.

It's unfortunate that the results weren't as what you expected, but you are the goat for posting it regardless. Too many people only post the good results. It helps other users immensely and to set realistic expectations.

So pagnoni and that other doctor both said a genio alone will suffice.

You know I'm leaning towards what Ramieri said as I fear a genioplasty might give you a testicle chin. An overly enthusiastic genioplasty might make you look like this

Meanwhile Ramieri's plan might have you looking more like this

This morph moved the jaw as well and made your lip seal look better. I'm leaning towards Ramieri. Ramieri has zero botches as well.

If I were you, I would look into Ramieri. I have a hunch a genio alone will give you a testicle looking chin.

This is just complete speculation, do not take my word as an absolute.

Either ways, I hope the surgery goes well and thanks for posting.

 

[savemefromthisfate]

It's unfortunate that the results weren't as what you expected, but you are the goat for posting it regardless. Too many people only post the good results. It helps other users immensely and to set realistic expectations.

So pagnoni and that other doctor both said a genio alone will suffice.

You know I'm leaning towards what Ramieri said as I fear a genioplasty might give you a testicle chin. An overly enthusiastic genioplasty might make you look like this

View attachment 2854197

Meanwhile Ramieri's plan might have you looking more like this

View attachment 2854199

This morph moved the jaw as well and made your lip seal look better. I'm leaning towards Ramieri. Ramieri has zero botches as well.

If I were you, I would look into Ramieri. I have a hunch a genio alone will give you a testicle looking chin.

This is just complete speculation, do not take my word as an absolute.

Either ways, I hope the surgery goes well and thanks for posting.

Well there's also the issue of my joints. I'm apparently losing my left condyle, and there's supposedly a high chance of relapse if I have surgery again.

 

[savemefromthisfate]

you must have previously had absolutely no jaw whatsoever before your first bimax, because those are actually pretty substantial movements.

Now I'm starting to wonder if joint issues might have caused a relapse.

 

[highT]

Now I'm starting to wonder if joint issues might have caused a relapse.

ICR idiopathic condylar resorption will cause this to occur

 

[RealSurgerymax]

Hello All,

About one year ago, I had bimax surgery without genio in the U.S to correct a Class II Overbite. It was fully covered by insurance. I posted my results here, however many people roasted me, and I ended up deleting my account. The result is significantly better than my before, however, I am still unhappy with the outcome. Since I finally obtained a job, I have consulted with several well-known surgeons that are mentioned in this forum. I'll probably include some pictures of my current result as well. These are my experiences so far:

Pagnoni:
I consulted with him for Infraorbital Rim Implants and Potential LJS revision. After providing him with my 3D CT scan, he was very insistent that I do not need a revision surgery, and that genioplasty will be enough. I'm also not sure if the custom Infraorbital Rim Implants will be enough to satisfy my expectations, but I think I definitely need them. I've had two consultations with him so far.

Ramieri:
He took one look at my before/after ceph and suggested LJS revision after another round of braces and premolar extractions. He suggested that genioplasty would just be a "camouflage" option, but I'm not sure about his opinion since it was a very quick consultation, and I also made a very poor first impression since it was a 6 AM appointment, and I had forgotten to send him my surgical documentation until the day of. He's very unresponsive to my emails and I don't think I'll be able to proceed with him.

Raffaini:
Requested a consultation with him, with all relevant surgical documentation sent. His assistant told me that he is declining my case, because according to him "I don't need additional surgery". Honestly, I think the true reason he declined to allow me to consult with him is because in my initial email I may have offended him by jokingly referring to myself as "Spiritually Italian", due to the fact that I was aware he charges foreigners extra.

Zarrinbal:
Sent him my Surgical Documentation and a request for an initial consultation. He got back to me a few weeks later saying that revision isn't necessary, and that chin wing, or genio with a bone graft to fill in the labiomental fold would be enough. Told him I was seriously considering revision, but he confirmed that in his opinion it wasn't necessary.

Unnamed Doctor in California:
I want to gatekeep this Doctor, because he seems very genuine in my opinion, and it's not like any of you will ever be able to afford him. He even invited me into his own home. If you really want his name, then feel free to DM me. He trained under Dr. Sinn, and is close friends with Conceancig. He mentioned that only him and Conceancig can perform a 5 piece mandibular distraction. He provided me with a plan for genioplasty and a LJS revision, and IMO, there doesn't seem to be a huge difference. The only issue is, I'm not even sure if the soft-tissue changes in the genioplasty VTO he gave me are even feasible. I'm seriously considering working him, but he wants 15k for the genioplasty, so I'll have to wait a bit.


So that's it so far. I have a few more consults coming up. I have one with Taban for eye area in about a week. I'll try to attach a picture of my current post-op profile, infraorbital region, and the Genioplasty and LJS VTO provided to me by the doctor in California. Looking forward to hearing your constructive advice.

Btw, in the Genio model, the first row is genio only, second row is LJS + genio.

Get some custom jaw surgery with custom implants.

The surgeon in California is Dr Bell of course. He’s good for jaw surgery, VERY good, but no experience in implants

 

[Pakicel]

Get some custom jaw surgery with custom implants.

The surgeon in California is Dr Bell of course. He’s good for jaw surgery, VERY good, but no experience in implants

What's your design fee for infra-malar implants? I remember you quoting me $1k last year. Is it still the same?

 

[RealSurgerymax]

What's your design fee for infra-malar implants? I remember you quoting me $1k last year. Is it still the same?

yea I haven't raised anything

 

[Pakicel]

yea I haven't raised anything

Since you are more candid than the other medical professionals that I have come across, why do you think a lot of these PSL surgeons like ramieri, pagnoni etc keep raising their prices every year? Is it because they are forced to because of their overheads or is it because they just can? Also, why are you doing what you do now? I don't think you are in this just for the money because you don't have an assembly line approach towards your patients. Do you just want to help incels out?

 

[RealSurgerymax]

Since you are more candid than the other medical professionals that I have come across, why do you think a lot of these PSL surgeons like ramieri, pagnoni etc keep raising their prices every year? Is it because they are forced to because of their overheads or is it because they just can? Also, why are you doing what you do now? I don't think you are in this just for the money because you don't have an assembly line approach towards your patients. Do you just want to help incels out?

yes inflation and also career advancement. If you get good at what you do you usually charge more that's how it works, once a surgeon is a "Safe" surgeon by proving themselves then yes they cost more than the ones youre taking a gamble with who haven't.

Yeah I just like doing it.

 

[Pakicel]

yes inflation and also career advancement. If you get good at what you do you usually charge more that's how it works, once a surgeon is a "Safe" surgeon by proving themselves then yes they cost more than the ones youre taking a gamble with who haven't.

But not every single one of their patients is rich. Part of the appeal of some of these European surgeons is that they are more affordable for people coming from the US, UK, Australia etc. If ramieri was charging 50k for trimax, that would def reduce the number of his patients.

Yeah I just like doing it.

Honestly, it does sound like interesting work. I wouldn’t mind becoming an implant designer but I am guessing it requires med school plus you need some CAD certs? Or maybe anybody could do it but cant do it well without deep anatomical knowledge? Also, to make a living, you have to market yourself to incels but I find using blackpill lingo cringy IRL.