ortho first or genio first?

[foresthills]

need opinions on this because im fucking lost

i have a mild - moderate deep bite, with a recessed chin, my mandible is fine, my recessed chin is mainly due to an underprojected pogonion (mostly genetic, if not entirely genetic) i've never been to an orthodontist in my life, bite came out pretty decent

which one do i treat first? i've been told treating the mild-moderate deep bite may be smarter as i'll be cooked if i overproject my chin with genio (going for 7mm - 8mm) - however, im mostly sure orthodontics at 18 aren't moving your jaws nor creating anymore chin projection. molars are class I so it's entirely dental

the chin recession looks worse everyday in person. my teeth are mostly straight although if you look hard enough you might notice the big central incisors when smiling

anyone smarter than me able to give an opinion?

can provide pics of the bite and chin in dms if you'd like

 

[6ft4]

I'd get the orthodontics first
Even a few weeks worth of lower incisor tilt from orthodontics can alter the contour of the lip and chin and the relationship with how projected / recessed the chin looks relative to bottom lip
The illusions created by the teeth position are significant

After I had my bimax and ortho I was stressed af with each new aligner for post surgery orthodontics as it was legit changing my chin contour on a weekly basis
Thankfully it settled well in the end but don't underestimate how much orthodontics can change things or you may end up crying if you lose peak genio result by getting orthodontics after

 

[foresthills]

I'd get the orthodontics first
Even a few weeks worth of lower incisor tilt from orthodontics can alter the contour of the lip and chin and the relationship with how projected / recessed the chin looks relative to bottom lip
The illusions created by the teeth position are significant

After I had my bimax and ortho I was stressed af with each new aligner for post surgery orthodontics as it was legit changing my chin contour on a weekly basis
Thankfully it settle well in the end but don't underestimate how much orthodontics can change things or you may end up crying if you lose peak genio result by getting orthodontic after

thanks for the high iq response

great point about the lower lip and chin relationship - i was gonna go for a bigger genio to make up for how underprojected the chin is relative to the lower lip

how could the genio result be "lost" from orthodontics after? surely the new bone is sealed in with screws? - although i do understand how you wanna fix everything before a surgery. only bad news is that i'll have to delay the genio by a year or two cause thats how long ortho treatment usually takes. still though i dont know what can be changed at 18 by orthodontics

 

[foresthills]

bump

 

[foresthills]

bump

 

[6ft4]

thanks for the high iq response

great point about the lower lip and chin relationship - i was gonna go for a bigger genio to make up for how underprojected the chin is relative to the lower lip

how could the genio result be "lost" from orthodontics after? surely the new bone is sealed in with screws? - although i do understand how you wanna fix everything before a surgery. only bad news is that i'll have to delay the genio by a year or two cause thats how long ortho treatment usually takes. still though i dont know what can be changed at 18 by orthodontics

yeah the additional bone created by genio wont be lost, but the aesthetic outcome can be tarnished by suboptimal orthodontics afterwards
The angle that your lower incisors tilt out at determines the angle between your lower incisors and chin
This angle is what creates the labiomental fold angle, having it flat sucks but having it too acute also sucks

Orthodontics can change how your mandible looks after 18
While having my teeth in the same position post surgery, the aesthetic of my jaw has changed simply by changing retainer to one made by a different lab with slightly different clunky geometry (teeth positions remain the same)
If you are hyper focused on every mm due to BDD, you want everything locked in as much as it can be so that nothing changes after the surgery (imo)

But yes waiting for the surgery while doing ortho sucks

 

[foresthills]

yeah the additional bone created by genio wont be lost, but the aesthetic outcome can be tarnished by suboptimal orthodontics afterwards
The angle that your lower incisors tilt out at determines the angle between your lower incisors and chin
This angle is what creates the labiomental fold angle, having it flat sucks but having it too acute also sucks

Orthodontics can change how your mandible looks after 18
While having my teeth in the same position post surgery, the aesthetic of my jaw has changed simply by changing retainer to one made by a different lab with slightly different clunky geometry (teeth positions remain the same)
If you are hyper focused on every mm due to BDD, you want everything locked in as much as it can be so that nothing changes after the surgery (imo)

But yes waiting for the surgery while doing ortho sucks

genuinely great, insightful information. thank you so much for your time and help.