Osteopetrosis - Implications of CO2 in Bone Formation?

[Deleted member 3990]

Osteopetrosis, or Marble bone disease, is essentially the lack of (enough) Carbonic anhydrase enzymes
This means that the CO2, an endproduct of cellular respiration, is not broken down that easily into carbonic acid etc.
It is not a good state of health but this condition can be used to maybe elude some effects of higher levels of CO2 in your body.
What I ask myself is, what is the exact mechanism behind it? Initially I thought that the CO2 just prevents the influx of the alkaline ions named calcium and natrium by reversing the voltage gate (if you believe in that theory). So the higher bone formation and density is just the biproduct of lower calcification of cells, therefore sparing calcium for new bone formation. But this can not really be true because that would imply that we would produce excessive CO2 which flows out of the cells, but this disease is about the lack of breakdown of CO2.
The CO2 is most likely increasing bone density build up by forming more Calcium Carbonate, this might be the main mechanism behind it.
I am taking some special cases but they are so distinct, they are usually found in Osteopetrosis people.

What came first: Learned mouthbreathing or expel CO2 excessively?
The main logic behind the nose is, that you can filter air and retain more CO2. But why do people mouthbreath then if they want to retain the little CO2 they have? Why do they hyperventilate?
Maybe they are not able to retain CO2 because of some underlying health issues.
Gasping for air to get more oxygen to fight hypoxia and feed cellular respiration (which in turn increases ATP and CO2 again), but CO2 increases Oxygen delivery by the Bohr effect!? Trying to expel CO2 or get more Oxygen to raise the bodily PH, to kill of bacterias or funghi?
Many things to learn, thought this might interest you

 

[Deleted member 13495]

what

 

[Chintuck22]

Good thread man .
CO2 is literally required for Oxygen utilisation.

Protective CO2 and aging

The therapeutic effects of increasing carbon dioxide are being more widely recognized in recent years. But still very few biologists recognize its role as a fundamental, universal protective factor. I think it will be helpful to consider some of the ways carbon dioxide might be controlling...

raypeat.com

 

[Deleted member 3990]

Another thought occured but I really think that there are better and more elaborate theories on that topic.
So, calcium is stored in bone as calcium carbonate (CaCO3). Maybe intake of Calcium or its intake in relation to phosphorus is an important thing to consider here. I do not know the exact mechanisms but phosphorus is usually bound or neutralised with calcium for PH or Calcium is helping it form Adenosine Di Phosphate in the cell. So if you lack calcium intake, calcium is reaped from the bone (incl. teeth) for the mentioned processes. When it is harvested, Carbonate would be left and the amount your body can not handle would be expelled as CO2.
And expelled through the mouth because it does not restrict flow as much as does nose?
There is likely more to it and I should ask someone with a better understanding of how life works

 

[Lawton88]

I wonder if an extreme lack of K2 could be part of the reason that the calcium/bone buildup went haywire like that.

 

[betamanlet]

It is not a good state of health but this condition can be used to maybe elude some effects of higher levels of CO2 in your body.
What I ask myself is, what is the exact mechanism behind it?

As you later wrote, it's heightened oxygenation through the Bohr effect and subsequent supercharging of (bone) metabolism. Advanced breathworkers and other people with excellent CO2 conditioning have immensely dense bones, there are many legends about yogis and taoists being able to perform with their bodies superhuman feats which would've destroyed the average man.

Maybe intake of Calcium or its intake in relation to phosphorus is an important thing to consider here. I do not know the exact mechanisms but phosphorus is usually bound or neutralised with calcium for PH or Calcium is helping it

This is why it's generally a good idea to have more calcium than phosphorus in diet.

 

[Deleted member 3990]

I wonder if an extreme lack of K2 could be part of the reason that the calcium/bone buildup went haywire like that.

sounds reasonable but an extreme lack of K2 would imply that you have no bacterias to form vitamin K either and you would bleed with ease for every petty reason. Then again, vitamin Ks are important because they have special relations with some proteins required for bone health indeed, other quinones like Qo10, Anthraquinones or stuff like Emodin can not do that I think but they are still very useful and in turn cover functions which vitamin K can not do (properly).

What if calcium is reaped from the bones, if not sufficient in diet, to fuel oxidative metabolism in the mitochondria and the body is relying on CO2 to lead the ionic minerals out again but sometimes fails to do so because of rate limiting factors in cellular respiration or leaking mitochondria (ROS usually leaks when cardiolipin and other cell walls are weak, those Oxidants react with double-bond fats (usually PUFAs) to generate lipid peroxidation)

 

[Deleted member 3990]

As you later wrote, it's heightened oxygenation through the Bohr effect and subsequent supercharging of (bone) metabolism. Advanced breathworkers and other people with excellent CO2 conditioning have immensely dense bones, there are many legends about yogis and taoists being able to perform with their bodies superhuman feats which would've destroyed the average man.

breathwork similar to Buteyko? I like it but I sometimes feel restricted on it. I feel more power when I nearly hyperventilate, first a bit nauseous but then mental clearness. Is this proper oxygenation? Can it be, if I breathe out all my CO2 as a trade? I would lose the Bohr Effect to a certain extent. I think you have mentioned once that you did pranayama

 

[betamanlet]

breathwork similar to Buteyko? I like it but I sometimes feel restricted on it. I feel more power when I nearly hyperventilate, first a bit nauseous but then mental clearness. Is this proper oxygenation? Can it be, if I breathe out all my CO2 as a trade? I would lose the Bohr Effect to a certain extent. I think you have mentioned once that you did pranayama

Yeah, Buteyko, pranayama, in the big picture they're alike so I use them interchangeably. Especially in the beginning it's better to just relax deeper and deeper than to actively strive to reduce your breathing volume by huge percentages. The point is to unwind (and unlearn) from all unconscious tension that may be accelerating your rate of breathing. If you experience automatic gasps or begin to tense up you may be going too hard. It's really a gentle, almost imperceptible process. Once you learn to keep yourself fully relaxed you can begin reducing your volume further within the limits of your ability to maintain relaxation.

I suspect that by hyperventilating you're flushing out some random metabolites, acids or stale air from your lungs which then helps you feel better as you're no longer re-breathing these into circulation. It is possible that this would point to a dysfunctional breathing pattern, since ideally the diaphragm is quite effective at keeping the lungs properly ventilated.

 

[Need2Ascend]

Yeah, Buteyko, pranayama, in the big picture they're alike so I use them interchangeably. Especially in the beginning it's better to just relax deeper and deeper than to actively strive to reduce your breathing volume by huge percentages. The point is to unwind (and unlearn) from all unconscious tension that may be accelerating your rate of breathing. If you experience automatic gasps or begin to tense up you may be going too hard. It's really a gentle, almost imperceptible process. Once you learn to keep yourself fully relaxed you can begin reducing your volume further within the limits of your ability to maintain relaxation.

I suspect that by hyperventilating you're flushing out some random metabolites, acids or stale air from your lungs which then helps you feel better as you're no longer re-breathing these into circulation. It is possible that this would point to a dysfunctional breathing pattern, since ideally the diaphragm is quite effective at keeping the lungs properly ventilated.

What is your breathing routine?

I started buteyko breathing some weeks ago(mainly for better overall health and reduced sleeping hours). But I'm not sure if what I'm doing is effective, and there isn't really that much on the internet about it. Even though breathing is the most vital aspect of a human being, and the effects that buteyko describes with higher control pauses seem incredible, almost too good to be true

 

[Deleted member 3990]

Shit thread kys