Plants. Are they conscious? How smart are they?

[incel194012940]

against plant consciousness:

plants don’t have brains or neurons. If consciousness = brain = neurons (impossible for robots/ai to become sentient), plants cannot be conscious by definition

plants don’t “think”. They are incapable of abstract thought. If sentience/consciousness are the same and related to the ability to think/reflect, plants are insentient and therefore not conscious by definition

consciousness is related to empathy, relatable emotions and therefore to higher centers of the brain. When humans go to their “reptilian brain”

evolution arguement: it’s a property (definitions differ) with adaptive advantage, only “higher life” needed to evolve this

similarity arguement: consciousness = human. Consciousness level can be found by seeing how similar the subject is to a human. Idealized version of “human” for racism arguement, niggers aren’t human and aren’t consious

for plant consciousness:

quantum arguement. consciousness is or is connected to quantum particles. These microtubules/quantum entanglement/other that are the mechanism for human consciousness are found in plants, plants are conscious

Nature arguement: nature = god (they don’t like this word) Plants are a manifestation of god. God is a higher consciousness than humans, therefore plants have a higher consciousness than humans, perhaps humans are not capable of understanding this

Idealism arguement: what is consciousness? It’s not material. therefore humans are not attached to our bodies/brains. humans are plants. Humans are everything. “Are” is a deceptive man-made abstraction but it is still true. Since humans are plants, plants are conscious as humans

psychic argument: I am an empath. I understand animals and talk to them through telepathy. I understand plants as well and communicate with me

plant intelligence arguement: consciousness is related to intelligence, the ability to learn, to make choices. Plant science is based on the now debunked theory plants are inanimate, don’t exhibit these traits. Research shows plants can learn, have relationships, communicate ect.

 

[mogger123]

they are conscious but extremely retarded, just like animals

this is why veganism is stupid

 

[Deleted member 30107]

so thats why grass has that smell when u cut it

 

[Deleted member 25705]

conscious but extremely retarded

@the BULL Found the perfect motto for you.

 

[Deleted member 18582]

Intentionality is the defining feature of consciousness, and they do not have it. Hence, plants are not conscious.

 

[OGJBSLAYER]

they are conscious but extremely retarded, just like animals

this is why veganism is stupid

Nope... causing less harm is good

Eating vegetables causes less harm than eating meat. But you should grow your own vegetables imo

 

[OGJBSLAYER]

Intentionality is the defining feature of consciousness, and they do not have it. Hence, plants are not conscious.

It isn't. That's a requirement of the mind.

Don't confuse the mind with consciousness. The latter is a mental property and pure awareness. It comes together at a greater and complex level to manifest the mind.

 

[Deleted member 18582]

It isn't. That's a requirement of the mind.

Don't confuse the mind with consciousness. The latter is a mental property and pure awareness. It comes together at a greater and complex level to manifest the mind.

There is no ontological distinction between consciousness and mind, since all experience and awareness can only present itself as an intentional object.

 

[OGJBSLAYER]

There is no ontological distinction between consciousness and mind, since all experience and awareness can only present itself as an intentional object.

This is not true. The mind behold ideas and dreams. It has subject-object distinction

Consciousness does not behold any ideas. It doesn't dream etc. There is no subject-object distinction at this level.

The mind is superimposed on consciousness. It's possible that just as matter has multiple physical properties. The mental realm ( substance or property ) may have multiple sub-properties

 

[Deleted member 18582]

This is not true. The mind behold ideas and dreams. It has subject-object distinction

Consciousness does not behold any ideas. It doesn't dream etc. There is no subject-object distinction at this level.

The mind is superimposed on consciousness.

Your definition of consciousness seems to be “pure awareness” but I don’t think there is any proof awareness can exist without being accompanied by anything. As soon as anything is aware it is necessarily aware “of” something, which makes it already intentional and therefore already of the mind.

 

[OGJBSLAYER]

Your definition of consciousness seems to be “pure awareness” but I don’t think there is any proof awareness can exist without being accompanied by anything. As soon as anything is aware it is necessarily aware “of” something, which makes it already intentional and therefore already of the mind.

Just meditate. Non-dual awareness is pretty well documented across cultures, religions and history.

I obviously can't produce an objective scientific experiment to convince you since the mental experience of other people is inaccessible to you ( subjective )

 

[Reckless Turtle]

plants don’t have brains or neurons. If consciousness = brain = neurons (impossible for robots/ai to become sentient), plants cannot be conscious by definition

conversation = over

 

[mogger123]

Nope... causing less harm is good

Eating vegetables causes less harm than eating meat. But you should grow your own vegetables imo

umm sweaty you didnt define "harm"

 

[OGJBSLAYER]

umm sweaty you didnt define "harm"

Primarily pain l guess... if plants are less conscious compared to animals, they feel less pain

But harm can include depriving a being of its existence. For eg , You can kill a person painlessly, but this doesn't make it right since you have deprived that person of a great good (existence and all the good which comes from it)

The more sentience you possess, the greater harm is brought when someone deprives you of your existence.

 

[mogger123]

Primarily pain l guess... if plants are less conscious compared to animals, they feel less pain

But harm can include depriving a being of its existence. For eg , You can kill a person painlessly, but this doesn't make it right since you have deprived that person of a great good ( existence )

what about killing a person painlessly vs torturing an ant to death?

 

[NerdcelThundercok]

against plant consciousness:

plants don’t have brains or neurons. If consciousness = brain = neurons (impossible for robots/ai to become sentient), plants cannot be conscious by definition

plants don’t “think”. They are incapable of abstract thought. If sentience/consciousness are the same and related to the ability to think/reflect, plants are insentient and therefore not conscious by definition

consciousness is related to empathy, relatable emotions and therefore to higher centers of the brain. When humans go to their “reptilian brain”

evolution arguement: it’s a property (definitions differ) with adaptive advantage, only “higher life” needed to evolve this

similarity arguement: consciousness = human. Consciousness level can be found by seeing how similar the subject is to a human. Idealized version of “human” for racism arguement, niggers aren’t human and aren’t consious

for plant consciousness:

quantum arguement. consciousness is or is connected to quantum particles. These microtubules/quantum entanglement/other that are the mechanism for human consciousness are found in plants, plants are conscious

Nature arguement: nature = god (they don’t like this word) Plants are a manifestation of god. God is a higher consciousness than humans, therefore plants have a higher consciousness than humans, perhaps humans are not capable of understanding this

Idealism arguement: what is consciousness? It’s not material. therefore humans are not attached to our bodies/brains. humans are plants. Humans are everything. “Are” is a deceptive man-made abstraction but it is still true. Since humans are plants, plants are conscious as humans

psychic argument: I am an empath. I understand animals and talk to them through telepathy. I understand plants as well and communicate with me

plant intelligence arguement: consciousness is related to intelligence, the ability to learn, to make choices. Plant science is based on the now debunked theory plants are inanimate, don’t exhibit these traits. Research shows plants can learn, have relationships, communicate ect.

smarter than u fasho boyo b

 

[OGJBSLAYER]

what about killing a person painlessly vs torturing an ant to death?

You should have waited for my next little paragraph....

Depriving someone of existence brings harm in proportion to their sentience. So killing a person painlessly is worse than torturing an ant to death

 

[mogger123]

You should have waited for my next little paragraph....

Depriving someone of existence brings harm in proportion to their sentience. So killing a person painlessly is worse than torturing an ant to death

so you're saying people with mental disabilities are less worthy of life?

 

[FastBananaCEO]

against plant consciousness:

plants don’t have brains or neurons. If consciousness = brain = neurons (impossible for robots/ai to become sentient), plants cannot be conscious by definition

plants don’t “think”. They are incapable of abstract thought. If sentience/consciousness are the same and related to the ability to think/reflect, plants are insentient and therefore not conscious by definition

consciousness is related to empathy, relatable emotions and therefore to higher centers of the brain. When humans go to their “reptilian brain”

evolution arguement: it’s a property (definitions differ) with adaptive advantage, only “higher life” needed to evolve this

similarity arguement: consciousness = human. Consciousness level can be found by seeing how similar the subject is to a human. Idealized version of “human” for racism arguement, niggers aren’t human and aren’t consious

for plant consciousness:

quantum arguement. consciousness is or is connected to quantum particles. These microtubules/quantum entanglement/other that are the mechanism for human consciousness are found in plants, plants are conscious

Nature arguement: nature = god (they don’t like this word) Plants are a manifestation of god. God is a higher consciousness than humans, therefore plants have a higher consciousness than humans, perhaps humans are not capable of understanding this

Idealism arguement: what is consciousness? It’s not material. therefore humans are not attached to our bodies/brains. humans are plants. Humans are everything. “Are” is a deceptive man-made abstraction but it is still true. Since humans are plants, plants are conscious as humans

psychic argument: I am an empath. I understand animals and talk to them through telepathy. I understand plants as well and communicate with me

plant intelligence arguement: consciousness is related to intelligence, the ability to learn, to make choices. Plant science is based on the now debunked theory plants are inanimate, don’t exhibit these traits. Research shows plants can learn, have relationships, communicate ect.

Your avi + thread title reminded me of this one scene from rodrick rules