Question for those of you getting/already had Bimax - how many surgeons did you consult with?

[lilhorizontal32]

title

want to know how many opinions are enough for me to make a blackpilled treatment plan

 

[Deleted member 4430]

i laugh, every time I read on this forum things like blackpilled surgery plan, fucking cringe in case of something like bimax.

 

[coolguy1]

i laugh, every time I read on this forum things like blackpilled surgery plan, fucking cringe in case of something like bimax.

You don't want a surgeon that only cares about functional benefits

 

[lilhorizontal32]

You don't want a surgeon that only cares about functional benefits

exactly. every surgeon can give you functional benefits.

but only the blackpilled ones will maximise your aesthetics

 

[Deleted member 643]

Only one. I didn't have many options available to me.

 

[Deleted member 5180]

exactly. every surgeon can give you functional benefits.

but only the blackpilled ones will maximise your aesthetics

Why, are the majority of surgeons bluepilled?

 

[Gaia262]

title

want to know how many opinions are enough for me to make a blackpilled treatment plan

I consulted two and that was enough for me.

 

[SixCRY]

+10

only 2 offer me blackpill mentality and agreed to do me Alfaro plan

 

[lilhorizontal32]

Why, are the majority of surgeons bluepilled?

a lot are

 

[lilhorizontal32]

+10

only 2 offer me blackpill mentality and agreed to do me Alfaro plan

yeah im in the same situation.

struggling to find surgeons who are blackpilled and have to go to many consults

 

[APJ]

Six. Thankfully the plans were pretty similar across the board, but these were the ‘big name’ guys regularly mentioned on here.

As for a ‘blackpilled treatment plan’, I see so many underdone results (and hardly any overdone) that I have a bias towards the largest movements (also factoring in relapse).

 

[lilhorizontal32]

Six. Thankfully the plans were pretty similar across the board, but these were the ‘big name’ guys regularly mentioned on here.

As for a ‘blackpilled treatment plan’, I see so many underdone results (and hardly any overdone) that I have a bias towards the largest movements (also factoring in relapse).

thanks man.

been seeing a few surgeons myself and when I told one surgeon how many other surgeons I saw (about 4 at the time) he didnt like it and said that I need to have trust in him.

I told him that every surgeon has been recommending a variety of treatment plans and told him that I would like to understand everything before making a choice, and he said that essentially "every surgeon does it a different way but achieves the same end result" even though some suggested genio only and others a full bimax ccw

jfl at going to these bluepilled surgeons

 

[SixCRY]

thanks man.

been seeing a few surgeons myself and when I told one surgeon how many other surgeons I saw (about 4 at the time) he didnt like it and said that I need to have trust in him.

I told him that every surgeon has been recommending a variety of treatment plans and told him that I would like to understand everything before making a choice, and he said that essentially "every surgeon does it a different way but achieves the same end result" even though some suggested genio only and others a full bimax ccw

jfl at going to these bluepilled surgeons

jfl this nigga just wanted to ripped your money off "trust me bro"

 

[SixCRY]

just ask for Alfaro plan its the easiest thing to do, 0 occlusale plane + both jaw at alfaro line, then for genio you can add it or not its just a preference

 

[lilhorizontal32]

jfl this nigga just wanted to ripped your money off "trust me bro"

he was trying to imply that I have BDD because Im getting multiple consults, even though I told him that I'm ony doing it because every surgeon is saying something different

 

[lilhorizontal32]

just ask for Alfaro plan its the easiest thing to do, 0 occlusale plane + both jaw at alfaro line, then for genio you can add it or not its just a preference

idk if thats a good idea, because what matters most is soft tissue positioning.

I think you said from look at my ceph that my maxilla is 8mm behind the alfaro line, and if I get 8mm lefort 1 I will chimpmax

thats why I think Arnett's FAB plan is best

 

[SixCRY]

idk if thats a good idea, because what matters most is soft tissue positioning.

I think you said from look at my ceph that my maxilla is 8mm behind the alfaro line, and if I get 8mm lefort 1 I will chimpmax

thats why I think Arnett's FAB plan is best

Arnett fab is like 3.5mm behind Alfaro line

 

[lilhorizontal32]

Arnett fab is like 3.5mm behind Alfaro line

in my case or for everyone?

 

[APJ]

idk if thats a good idea, because what matters most is soft tissue positioning.

I think you said from look at my ceph that my maxilla is 8mm behind the alfaro line, and if I get 8mm lefort 1 I will chimpmax

thats why I think Arnett's FAB plan is best

Is cost an issue for you? Unless you have some sort of insurance Arnett will be way more expensive than Alfaro.

 

[APJ]

thanks man.

been seeing a few surgeons myself and when I told one surgeon how many other surgeons I saw (about 4 at the time) he didnt like it and said that I need to have trust in him.

I told him that every surgeon has been recommending a variety of treatment plans and told him that I would like to understand everything before making a choice, and he said that essentially "every surgeon does it a different way but achieves the same end result" even though some suggested genio only and others a full bimax ccw

jfl at going to these bluepilled surgeons

I don't see why surgeons should be annoyed you'd go see other surgeons for consults. For an operation this invasive and important to you it's reasonable to seek a second/third/etc. opinion.

Now if you start comparing a surgeon's plan to others, that might be interpreted as calling into question their abilities, which I imagine would annoy them somewhat.

 

[SixCRY]

in my case or for everyone?

for everyone, fab lab is same line as Alfaro but 3.5mm behind do u can make ur plan

 

[lilhorizontal32]

I don't see why surgeons should be annoyed you'd go see other surgeons for consults. For an operation this invasive and important to you it's reasonable to seek a second/third/etc. opinion.

Now if you start comparing a surgeon's plan to others, that might be interpreted as calling into question their abilities, which I imagine would annoy them somewhat.

It was more than 3 opinions more like 5 or 6. but even then consultation costs are not that much compared to the actual price of surgery so I don't see why people dont get more consults. probably due to blind faith in their surgeon

and yes I did compare their plans, but in a respectful way asking him why he thinks the other surgeons suggested what they did, compared to what he proposed for my case. but even then, they should be open to the fact they overlooked something and consider revising their plans, or at the very least explain why they have proposed the treatment plan they did in full detail, which a lot don't

 

[APJ]

It was more than 3 opinions more like 5 or 6. but even then consultation costs are not that much compared to the actual price of surgery so I don't see why people dont get more consults. probably due to blind faith in their surgeon

and yes I did compare their plans, but in a respectful way asking him why he thinks the other surgeons suggested what they did, compared to what he proposed for my case. but even then, they should be open to the fact they overlooked something and consider revising their plans, or at the very least explain why they have proposed the treatment plan they did in full detail, which a lot don't

Perhaps the comparing could be interpreted as doubting. Many surgeons seem to have big egos and IIRC surgeons are more psychopathic than the general population, which could mean they're less likely to be empathetic as to why you're making the comparison.

And I completely agree with you re: getting loads of consultations. Take your time, bimax is a huge deal.

 

[lilhorizontal32]

Perhaps the comparing could be interpreted as doubting. Many surgeons seem to have big egos and IIRC surgeons are more psychopathic than the general population, which could mean they're less likely to be empathetic as to why you're making the comparison.

And I completely agree with you re: getting loads of consultations. Take your time, bimax is a huge deal.

makes sense, and yeah I was thinking something similar. I'm extra careful now not to say something to step on my surgeon's toes because they are quite quick to anger, but even then there are questions that just have to asked.

such as when they offer a shit treatment plan, I'd show another surgeon's plan (the most blackpilled plan I have had made) in hopes that they change theirs. this also lets them save face because they are changing their treatment plan because another surgeon proposed something slightly better and not because some patient self-researched the procedure and told them what they want

and thanks man, was starting to feel like I might have BDD, especially because I want to get maybe 10-15 opinions all up and them make my final decision then. I just dont get how someone can spend 15-25k on the surgery but not maybe 2-3k max speaking to different surgeons for their opinions

 

[lilhorizontal32]

Perhaps the comparing could be interpreted as doubting. Many surgeons seem to have big egos and IIRC surgeons are more psychopathic than the general population, which could mean they're less likely to be empathetic as to why you're making the comparison.

And I completely agree with you re: getting loads of consultations. Take your time, bimax is a huge deal.

also how'd your bimax go man?

 

[lilhorizontal32]

Is cost an issue for you? Unless you have some sort of insurance Arnett will be way more expensive than Alfaro.

cost is a bit of an issue yeah

 

[APJ]

also how'd your bimax go man?

Haven’t had it yet, will be late Autumn probably! Christmas in bed

But thanks! Still haven’t fully decided who to go with (I’ve done ortho) but my top 3 surgeon choices are all saying I have a spot late Autumn if I want it

 

[lilhorizontal32]

Haven’t had it yet, will be late Autumn probably! Christmas in bed

But thanks! Still haven’t fully decided who to go with (I’ve done ortho) but my top 3 surgeon choices are all saying I have a spot late Autumn if I want it

good luck bro.

and with the ortho, I thought every surgeon requires the pre-surgical orthodontics to be done differently?

hence you have to choose your surgeon + ortho before even beginning orthodontics, meaning you can't switch surgeons mid-way through treatment without undoing some of the teeth movements?

 

[APJ]

good luck bro.

and with the ortho, I thought every surgeon requires the pre-surgical orthodontics to be done differently?

hence you have to choose your surgeon + ortho before even beginning orthodontics, meaning you can't switch surgeons mid-way through treatment without undoing some of the teeth movements?

Not in my case, at least. I’ve been open with the other surgeons about this, they’ve said it’s fine. I just needed some decompensation (which is also why my ortho was relatively short). But do ask around, in your/others’ cases it may be different.

 

[APJ]

makes sense, and yeah I was thinking something similar. I'm extra careful now not to say something to step on my surgeon's toes because they are quite quick to anger, but even then there are questions that just have to asked.

such as when they offer a shit treatment plan, I'd show another surgeon's plan (the most blackpilled plan I have had made) in hopes that they change theirs. this also lets them save face because they are changing their treatment plan because another surgeon proposed something slightly better and not because some patient self-researched the procedure and told them what they want

and thanks man, was starting to feel like I might have BDD, especially because I want to get maybe 10-15 opinions all up and them make my final decision then. I just dont get how someone can spend 15-25k on the surgery but not maybe 2-3k max speaking to different surgeons for their opinions

Re: your last paragraph here — I completely agree. With travel, hotels, extra scans, etc. I’ve easily spent 2-3k on consults. Don’t regret it one bit, even those visits to surgeons I eventually decided against going with. With bimax you don’t want to find yourself with a substandard result and years down the line think “if only I’d seen X surgeon”.

Re: the other stuff —it really is a tightrope and getting a surgeon to bend on their plan has been near-impossible for me (most of the plans I received had the correct general idea but the specific movements were often just too conservative). I can see surgeons multiple times over and they’ll look at new scans and say exactly the same thing as before. I realise ceph analysis is the gold standard for a workup in a presurgical consultation, but I do see the value in doing a before/after profile morph (of the ideal result) and asking them if the movements they quoted would achieve *that* (points to morph). But honestly my experience is that they form a plan, don’t deviate, and start to get annoyed if you gently push them or inquire about larger movements

 

[lilhorizontal32]

Re: your last paragraph here — I completely agree. With travel, hotels, extra scans, etc. I’ve easily spent 2-3k on consults. Don’t regret it one bit, even those visits to surgeons I eventually decided against going with. With bimax you don’t want to find yourself with a substandard result and years down the line think “if only I’d seen X surgeon”.

Re: the other stuff —it really is a tightrope and getting a surgeon to bend on their plan has been near-impossible for me (most of the plans I received had the correct general idea but the specific movements were often just too conservative). I can see surgeons multiple times over and they’ll look at new scans and say exactly the same thing as before. I realise ceph analysis is the gold standard for a workup in a presurgical consultation, but I do see the value in doing a before/after profile morph (of the ideal result) and asking them if the movements they quoted would achieve *that* (points to morph). But honestly my experience is that they form a plan, don’t deviate, and start to get annoyed if you gently push them or inquire about larger movements

thanks for your response bro

and also do you think if 2 surgeons executed the exact same movements, ie. same lefort 1, bsso, genio, and amount of CW/CCW rotation the result will be EXACTLY the same, or will there be other factors that come into play in how a bimax result turns out that are outside of these 4 variables?

wondering because the surgeon who proposed the best plan for me (2.5mm lf1, 9mm bsso, 6mm genio, and 5 CCW) is based overseas (and travelling and staying there is pretty unaffordable) but all of the local surgeons I have seen so far are proposing 5mm lf1, 10mm bsso, 6mm genio and 0-1 CCW, which will produce a much worse result from what everyone here has been saying and also from my own research.

however, I am wondering if I took this same aesthetic plan to a local surgeon, if even then they would not produce the same result as the surgeon that initially proposed it. If not, I would need to spend another 6-12 months saving up and travel internationally to see him

and can I ask what your thoughts are regarding if one should get a surgeon to execute a plan that they didnt actually come up with in the first place?
as in does it show that their eye for aesthetics is not very good, as otherwise they would have proposed it, meaning they may not know other surgical techniques they can do during the procedure/better cuts etc. (such as Alfaro's soft tissue reshaping) which the more blackpilled surgeon would be experienced with in order to fully optimise aesthetics, or do you think that this would not really be the case?