Quran Tribalistic Bloodlust + The Entire Foundational Text Itself

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"Then kill the disbelievers (non-Muslims) wherever you find them, capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush …" - Surah 9:5

The Quran tells Muslims to "slay the idolaters wherever you find them" in one verse, then preaches "there is no compulsion in religion" in another.

It commands followers to,
"fight those who do not believe in Allah" - Quran (Surah At-Tawbah, 9:29)

while simultaneously claiming,
"if God had willed, He would have made you one community." - Quran (Surah Al-Ma'idah, 5:48)

The entire text is filled with these inconsistencies because it was written over decades by people trying to justify whatever political situation Muhammad found himself in.

Yes, I said what I said.

It wasn't revealed all at once. It came over 23 years as Muhammad's political situation evolved. Early Meccan suras when he was powerless? All about peace and tolerance. Later Medinan suras after he gained military power? Suddenly Allah's cool with conquest and subjugation.

The abrogation principle in Islamic jurisprudence even acknowledges this, later revelations supersede earlier ones when they conflict. That's why jihadists can justify violence while moderates can claim Islam is peaceful. They're both technically right, depending on which verses they cherry-pick.

It's a political document hiding as divine revelation. Muhammad was a brilliant political and military leader who used "revelation" to consolidate power and justify his actions. I'm not saying he didn't believe it himself (he probably did) but the convenient timing of Allah's messages is pretty damn suspicious.

Look at the pattern of revelations. Whenever Muhammad faced a personal or political challenge, conveniently a new revelation would arrive with exactly the solution he needed.

- When his followers questioned why he had more wives than the four they were limited to? Revelation: special exception for the prophet.
- When he wanted to marry his adopted son's ex-wife Zaynab, which violated Arab customs? Revelation: adoption isn't real in Islam, so it's fine.
- When his child bride Aisha was accused of adultery? Revelation: she's innocent and anyone who accuses her is to be flogged.
- When his followers were getting too comfortable in his house? Revelation: don't overstay your welcome at the prophet's home.

They're solutions to Muhammad's immediate problems.

The pattern is clear as day if you study the chronological order of Quranic revelations.

In Mecca, when Muslims were weak and persecuted, the revelations emphasized patience, tolerance, and peaceful coexistence:
"To you be your religion, and to me my religion" (109:6).

Then after the Hijra to Medina, as Muhammad gained political and military power, suddenly Allah's message shifted dramatically to
"Fight those who do not believe in Allah" (9:29).

The most violent, intolerant verses conveniently came when Muhammad needed to motivate his armies or justify conquest. The most peaceful verses came when he needed allies or was in a position of weakness.

Even Muhammad's personal life followed this pattern. In fact, it's where this pattern becomes most obvious.

Take his marriages. Normal Muslims were limited to four wives, but Muhammad ended up with at least nine concurrent wives. How? A special revelation in Surah Al-Ahzab (33:50) that explicitly gave him, and only him, this privilege.

Or look at the Zaynab incident (AGAIN). Muhammad became attracted to his adopted son Zayd's wife. Suddenly, Allah reveals that adoption isn't recognized in Islam (contradicting previous Arabian customs), Zayd divorces her, and Muhammad marries her. All justified by convenient revelation.

Even in his household disputes, when his wives complained about his favoritism toward Aisha or when they wanted more financial support, revelations came down threatening them with divorce if they didn't accept their situation.

And, it gets worse.

The Quran even has a verse specifically to resolve a domestic dispute between Muhammad and his wives over honey. Imagine that. The creator of the universe intervening because the prophet's wives were jealous about who got more honey. Jesus Christ.

And look at the evolution of jihad in the text. First it's defensive, then it becomes offensive, then it's about conquering the Arabian peninsula, then it's about expanding beyond. Each stage perfectly aligned with Muhammad's growing military power.

This isn't how divine revelation works. This is how a political movement works. The revelations are too convenient, too timely, too perfectly suited to Muhammad's immediate needs.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Muhammad wasn't sincere in his belief. He probably genuinely believed he was receiving divine messages. But sincerity doesn't equal truth.

Many cult leaders throughout history genuinely believed they were chosen by God. The human mind is remarkably good at self-deception, especially when power and influence are involved.

What's more damning is how the Quran claims to be the perfect, unchanged word of God while containing scientific errors that reflect 7th century Arabian understanding of the world.

It describes the sun setting in a muddy spring (18:86), mountains as pegs that prevent the earth from shaking (78:7), and embryology that's laughably wrong by modern standards.

If this were truly the word of an all-knowing deity, wouldn't it contain scientific insights beyond 7th century knowledge instead of just reflecting it?
Wouldn't its moral teachings transcend the cultural norms of that specific time and place?


The fundamental issue with Islam (and frankly with most religions that claim divine revelation) is that they require us to believe that the creator of the entire universe, black holes, quantum mechanics, and the human brain... somehow chose to reveal ultimate truth through one illiterate merchant in 7th century Arabia.

The evidence points to a much simpler explanation: Muhammad was a product of his time who created a religious-political movement that served his needs. He may have been sincere, he may have even been a genius, but that doesn't make his claims true.

What's fascinating is how Islam has survived by building in defense mechanisms - questioning the Quran is blasphemy, leaving the religion is apostasy punishable by death, and critical thinking about its origins is discouraged. These aren't features of truth; they're features of ideologies that can't withstand scrutiny.

I don't say this to be disrespectful. I say it because truth matters.

If Muslims want to practice their faith, that's their business. But when any religion claims absolute truth while showing clear signs of human origin, it deserves critical examination. The same standards I apply to Islam, I apply to all belief systems, including my own.

The difference is I've examined the evidence for Christianity and found it historically sound, not because it's comfortable or convenient, but because the historical case for the resurrection withstands scrutiny in ways Muhammad's night journey to Jerusalem on a winged horse simply doesn't.

Anyways, ciao.

1741616818033
 
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Poop religion
 
The difference is I've examined the evidence for Christianity and found it historically sound, not because it's comfortable or convenient​
:forcedsmile:
 
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I'm not giving Christianity a free pass.

I've studied the historical evidence for the resurrection extensively.

The early creed in 1 Corinthians 15 dating to within years of the events, the multiple independent attestations, the criterion of embarrassment with women as first witnesses, the inexplicable rise of the church despite persecution, and the transformation of the disciples from cowards to martyrs.

These historical facts require explanation. I've found the resurrection hypothesis more plausible than alternatives like mass hallucination or conspiracy theories. That's not blind faith. It's historical investigation.

Unlike Islam, Christianity's core claims aren't conveniently aligned with its founder's political ambitions. Jesus died as a criminal, not as a conquering warlord. The gospels include embarrassing details about the disciples that a propaganda document would omit.

I understand the skepticism, though. It did look like I was giving it a free pass. But I'm not.
 
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I'm not giving Christianity a free pass.

I've studied the historical evidence for the resurrection extensively.

The early creed in 1 Corinthians 15 dating to within years of the events, the multiple independent attestations, the criterion of embarrassment with women as first witnesses, the inexplicable rise of the church despite persecution, and the transformation of the disciples from cowards to martyrs.

These historical facts require explanation. I've found the resurrection hypothesis more plausible than alternatives like mass hallucination or conspiracy theories. That's not blind faith. It's historical investigation.

Unlike Islam, Christianity's core claims aren't conveniently aligned with its founder's political ambitions. Jesus died as a criminal, not as a conquering warlord. The gospels include embarrassing details about the disciples that a propaganda document would omit.

I understand the skepticism, though. It did look like I was giving it a free pass. But I'm not.
why many word when few word do trick
 
why many word when few word do trick

Fair point. I'll cut the bullshit.

- Christianity has testable historical claims about a public execution and empty tomb. Islam has one man's private revelations that conveniently solved his personal problems.
- Jesus died broke and humiliated. Muhammad died ruling an empire.
- One of these founders had something to gain from their "revelations." The other got crucified.

1741619462984
 
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Fair point. I'll cut the bullshit.

- Christianity has testable historical claims about a public execution and empty tomb. Islam has one man's private revelations that conveniently solved his personal problems.
- Jesus died broke and humiliated. Muhammad died ruling an empire.
- One of these founders had something to gain from their "revelations." The other got crucified.

View attachment 3553743
Uhh hold on
 
I'm not giving Christianity a free pass.

I've studied the historical evidence for the resurrection extensively.

The early creed in 1 Corinthians 15 dating to within years of the events, the multiple independent attestations, the criterion of embarrassment with women as first witnesses, the inexplicable rise of the church despite persecution, and the transformation of the disciples from cowards to martyrs.

These historical facts require explanation. I've found the resurrection hypothesis more plausible than alternatives like mass hallucination or conspiracy theories. That's not blind faith. It's historical investigation.

Unlike Islam, Christianity's core claims aren't conveniently aligned with its founder's political ambitions. Jesus died as a criminal, not as a conquering warlord. The gospels include embarrassing details about the disciples that a propaganda document would omit.

I understand the skepticism, though. It did look like I was giving it a free pass. But I'm not.
Greatly written
 
Fair point. I'll cut the bullshit.

- Christianity has testable historical claims about a public execution and empty tomb. Islam has one man's private revelations that conveniently solved his personal problems.
- Jesus died broke and humiliated. Muhammad died ruling an empire.
- One of these founders had something to gain from their "revelations." The other got crucified.

View attachment 3553743
Read Seerat e nabwi you can see the prophet peace be upon him lived quite frugally
Also the beginning of surah ‘Abasa comes quickly to mind as an easy example of inconvenient revelations

That being said, prior to prophethood, Muhammad was a well respected member of his tribe and successful trader. After he began preaching, he lost his social status, his friends, and his livelihood, was physically assaulted on multiple occasions and frequently insulted, was later exiled and boycotted which led to the death of his wife, then ultimately left his homeland with only the clothes on his back and narrowly avoided an assassination attempt, and then was besieged and fought against for years by his foes while also being frequently challenged by his internal dissidents in his new city who made attempts on his life on several occasions. He frequently went without any cooked food for months at a time, and died in debt in a humble dwelling, survived by only one of the eight or so children born to him. So, one could say that being tasked with conveying the revelation was hardly self-serving and often brought hardships to his life. All this, and yet his tribe at one time offered to make him their leader if he would just compromise his preaching.
 
Read Seerat e nabwi you can see the prophet peace be upon him lived quite frugally
Also the beginning of surah ‘Abasa comes quickly to mind as an easy example of inconvenient revelations

That being said, prior to prophethood, Muhammad was a well respected member of his tribe and successful trader. After he began preaching, he lost his social status, his friends, and his livelihood, was physically assaulted on multiple occasions and frequently insulted, was later exiled and boycotted which led to the death of his wife, then ultimately left his homeland with only the clothes on his back and narrowly avoided an assassination attempt, and then was besieged and fought against for years by his foes while also being frequently challenged by his internal dissidents in his new city who made attempts on his life on several occasions. He frequently went without any cooked food for months at a time, and died in debt in a humble dwelling, survived by only one of the eight or so children born to him. So, one could say that being tasked with conveying the revelation was hardly self-serving and often brought hardships to his life. All this, and yet his tribe at one time offered to make him their leader if he would just compromise his preaching.

Congratulations, you've discovered that prophets face hardship.
That's not the point I'm making.
Muhammad's initial struggles don't negate the pattern of convenient revelations that emerged once he gained power.
Yes, Surah Abasa is the exception that proves the rule - one mild rebuke amid dozens of self-serving revelations. And even THAT was politically savvy, showing humility wins followers.
The frugality argument is meaningless. Power isn't just about wealth. Muhammad died controlling the Arabian peninsula with thousands of devoted followers willing to die at his command. That's power beyond what any mere wealth could buy.
Your timeline conveniently stops at the hardships and ignores what came after.
What about the convenient revelation allowing him to marry his adopted son's wife?
Or the one giving him alone permission to exceed the four-wife limit? Or the one commanding his followers to give him a fifth of all war booty?
Let's be honest about what happened after those initial hardships. Muhammad went from persecuted preacher -> political and military leader with absolute authority. The revelations evolved to match this trajectory.
- When he needed to justify breaking the sacred month prohibition on fighting? Revelation.
- When he needed to justify attacking a peaceful Jewish tribe? Revelation.
- When he needed his followers to stay longer at battle? Revelation.
- When he wanted privacy in his home? Revelation.
Look at the Satanic Verses incident. He initially received "revelations" acknowledging pagan goddesses to appease the Meccans, then later claimed those were from Satan when it became politically inconvenient.

Read Seerat e nabwi

You mention Seerat e Nabwi, but historical sources like Ibn Ishaq and al-Tabari document numerous convenient revelations that served Muhammad's immediate needs.
This isn't about whether Muhammad suffered. Many religious leaders did.
The issue isn't whether Muhammad was sincere or faced hardships but the pattern of revelations that perfectly aligned with his evolving needs. Compare this with Jesus, whose teachings often created problems rather than solved them.
Look at the historical reliability. The Gospels were written within decades of Jesus' death, with multiple independent sources. The Quran relies entirely on Muhammad's private experiences, compiled after his death.
The early Christian church grew despite persecution and offered followers suffering rather than conquest. Early Islam expanded through military conquest and offered tangible rewards.
You're focusing on Muhammad's personal suffering while ignoring the convenient theological solutions to his problems.
I'm not questioning his sincerity. I'm questioning whether convenience is a hallmark of divine truth.

If you truly want to test your faith, read the hadith collections critically. Ask why Allah's final revelation needed so many convenient updates and exceptions for one man.
 
brah the prophet was a savage married a 6 yo married a girl who he killed her father and brother he used to be a slave owner why was I even born Muslim now I gotta cope for a whole month :feelswhy:
 
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Congratulations, you've discovered that prophets face hardship.
That's not the point I'm making.
Muhammad's initial struggles don't negate the pattern of convenient revelations that emerged once he gained power.
Yes, Surah Abasa is the exception that proves the rule - one mild rebuke amid dozens of self-serving revelations. And even THAT was politically savvy, showing humility wins followers.
The frugality argument is meaningless. Power isn't just about wealth. Muhammad died controlling the Arabian peninsula with thousands of devoted followers willing to die at his command. That's power beyond what any mere wealth could buy.
Your timeline conveniently stops at the hardships and ignores what came after.
What about the convenient revelation allowing him to marry his adopted son's wife?
Or the one giving him alone permission to exceed the four-wife limit? Or the one commanding his followers to give him a fifth of all war booty?
Let's be honest about what happened after those initial hardships. Muhammad went from persecuted preacher -> political and military leader with absolute authority. The revelations evolved to match this trajectory.
- When he needed to justify breaking the sacred month prohibition on fighting? Revelation.
- When he needed to justify attacking a peaceful Jewish tribe? Revelation.
- When he needed his followers to stay longer at battle? Revelation.
- When he wanted privacy in his home? Revelation.
Look at the Satanic Verses incident. He initially received "revelations" acknowledging pagan goddesses to appease the Meccans, then later claimed those were from Satan when it became politically inconvenient.



You mention Seerat e Nabwi, but historical sources like Ibn Ishaq and al-Tabari document numerous convenient revelations that served Muhammad's immediate needs.
This isn't about whether Muhammad suffered. Many religious leaders did.
The issue isn't whether Muhammad was sincere or faced hardships but the pattern of revelations that perfectly aligned with his evolving needs. Compare this with Jesus, whose teachings often created problems rather than solved them.
Look at the historical reliability. The Gospels were written within decades of Jesus' death, with multiple independent sources. The Quran relies entirely on Muhammad's private experiences, compiled after his death.
The early Christian church grew despite persecution and offered followers suffering rather than conquest. Early Islam expanded through military conquest and offered tangible rewards.
You're focusing on Muhammad's personal suffering while ignoring the convenient theological solutions to his problems.
I'm not questioning his sincerity. I'm questioning whether convenience is a hallmark of divine truth.

If you truly want to test your faith, read the hadith collections critically. Ask why Allah's final revelation needed so many convenient updates and exceptions for one man.
Well your just being obviously biased right now anyways
Whats the point of having thousands of devoted followers or territory control if your not wealthy/ living the good life off of it? The whole point of power is to live the good life which isnt what he did
We could go on and back forth and forth citing convenient and inconvenient revelations but really your just repeating the same things in different words
 
Well your just being obviously biased right now anyways
Whats the point of having thousands of devoted followers or territory contorl if your not wealthy/ living the good life off of it? The whole point of poeer is to live the good life which isnt what he did
What a convenient way to avoid addressing my points.
I'm applying the same standard to BOTH religions. You're the one making special exceptions.
Whats the point of having thousands of devoted followers or territory contorl if your not wealthy
Ask any politician or cult leader. Power itself is the reward, the ability to shape society, command armies, and have your words treated as divine law.
Muhammad didn't need gold-plated palaces to benefit from his position.
your just repeating the same things in different words
I'm not "repeating the same things". I'm pointing out a pattern you refuse to engage with. The Quran's revelations consistently solved Muhammad's immediate problems in ways that expanded his authority. That's not what we'd expect from divine revelation, but exactly what we'd expect from a human source.

If you want to convince me, don't just label me biased. SHOW ME how these convenient revelations are more likely from God than from Muhammad himself.
 
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The Quran tells Muslims to "slay the idolaters wherever you find them" in one verse, then preaches "there is no compulsion in religion" in another.

It commands followers to,



while simultaneously claiming,



The entire text is filled with these inconsistencies because it was written over decades by people trying to justify whatever political situation Muhammad found himself in.

Yes, I said what I said.

It wasn't revealed all at once. It came over 23 years as Muhammad's political situation evolved. Early Meccan suras when he was powerless? All about peace and tolerance. Later Medinan suras after he gained military power? Suddenly Allah's cool with conquest and subjugation.

The abrogation principle in Islamic jurisprudence even acknowledges this, later revelations supersede earlier ones when they conflict. That's why jihadists can justify violence while moderates can claim Islam is peaceful. They're both technically right, depending on which verses they cherry-pick.

It's a political document hiding as divine revelation. Muhammad was a brilliant political and military leader who used "revelation" to consolidate power and justify his actions. I'm not saying he didn't believe it himself (he probably did) but the convenient timing of Allah's messages is pretty damn suspicious.

Look at the pattern of revelations. Whenever Muhammad faced a personal or political challenge, conveniently a new revelation would arrive with exactly the solution he needed.

- When his followers questioned why he had more wives than the four they were limited to? Revelation: special exception for the prophet.
- When he wanted to marry his adopted son's ex-wife Zaynab, which violated Arab customs? Revelation: adoption isn't real in Islam, so it's fine.
- When his child bride Aisha was accused of adultery? Revelation: she's innocent and anyone who accuses her is to be flogged.
- When his followers were getting too comfortable in his house? Revelation: don't overstay your welcome at the prophet's home.

They're solutions to Muhammad's immediate problems.

The pattern is clear as day if you study the chronological order of Quranic revelations.

In Mecca, when Muslims were weak and persecuted, the revelations emphasized patience, tolerance, and peaceful coexistence:



Then after the Hijra to Medina, as Muhammad gained political and military power, suddenly Allah's message shifted dramatically to



The most violent, intolerant verses conveniently came when Muhammad needed to motivate his armies or justify conquest. The most peaceful verses came when he needed allies or was in a position of weakness.

Even Muhammad's personal life followed this pattern. In fact, it's where this pattern becomes most obvious.

Take his marriages. Normal Muslims were limited to four wives, but Muhammad ended up with at least nine concurrent wives. How? A special revelation in Surah Al-Ahzab (33:50) that explicitly gave him, and only him, this privilege.

Or look at the Zaynab incident (AGAIN). Muhammad became attracted to his adopted son Zayd's wife. Suddenly, Allah reveals that adoption isn't recognized in Islam (contradicting previous Arabian customs), Zayd divorces her, and Muhammad marries her. All justified by convenient revelation.

Even in his household disputes, when his wives complained about his favoritism toward Aisha or when they wanted more financial support, revelations came down threatening them with divorce if they didn't accept their situation.

And, it gets worse.

The Quran even has a verse specifically to resolve a domestic dispute between Muhammad and his wives over honey. Imagine that. The creator of the universe intervening because the prophet's wives were jealous about who got more honey. Jesus Christ.

And look at the evolution of jihad in the text. First it's defensive, then it becomes offensive, then it's about conquering the Arabian peninsula, then it's about expanding beyond. Each stage perfectly aligned with Muhammad's growing military power.

This isn't how divine revelation works. This is how a political movement works. The revelations are too convenient, too timely, too perfectly suited to Muhammad's immediate needs.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Muhammad wasn't sincere in his belief. He probably genuinely believed he was receiving divine messages. But sincerity doesn't equal truth.

Many cult leaders throughout history genuinely believed they were chosen by God. The human mind is remarkably good at self-deception, especially when power and influence are involved.

What's more damning is how the Quran claims to be the perfect, unchanged word of God while containing scientific errors that reflect 7th century Arabian understanding of the world.

It describes the sun setting in a muddy spring (18:86), mountains as pegs that prevent the earth from shaking (78:7), and embryology that's laughably wrong by modern standards.

If this were truly the word of an all-knowing deity, wouldn't it contain scientific insights beyond 7th century knowledge instead of just reflecting it?
Wouldn't its moral teachings transcend the cultural norms of that specific time and place?


The fundamental issue with Islam (and frankly with most religions that claim divine revelation) is that they require us to believe that the creator of the entire universe, black holes, quantum mechanics, and the human brain... somehow chose to reveal ultimate truth through one illiterate merchant in 7th century Arabia.

The evidence points to a much simpler explanation: Muhammad was a product of his time who created a religious-political movement that served his needs. He may have been sincere, he may have even been a genius, but that doesn't make his claims true.

What's fascinating is how Islam has survived by building in defense mechanisms - questioning the Quran is blasphemy, leaving the religion is apostasy punishable by death, and critical thinking about its origins is discouraged. These aren't features of truth; they're features of ideologies that can't withstand scrutiny.

I don't say this to be disrespectful. I say it because truth matters.

If Muslims want to practice their faith, that's their business. But when any religion claims absolute truth while showing clear signs of human origin, it deserves critical examination. The same standards I apply to Islam, I apply to all belief systems, including my own.

The difference is I've examined the evidence for Christianity and found it historically sound, not because it's comfortable or convenient, but because the historical case for the resurrection withstands scrutiny in ways Muhammad's night journey to Jerusalem on a winged horse simply doesn't.

Anyways, ciao.

View attachment 3553648

All of that is based.
 
What a convenient way to avoid addressing my points.
I'm applying the same standard to BOTH religions. You're the one making special exceptions.

Ask any politician or cult leader. Power itself is the reward, the ability to shape society, command armies, and have your words treated as divine law.
Muhammad didn't need gold-plated palaces to benefit from his position.

I'm not "repeating the same things". I'm pointing out a pattern you refuse to engage with. The Quran's revelations consistently solved Muhammad's immediate problems in ways that expanded his authority. That's not what we'd expect from divine revelation, but exactly what we'd expect from a human source.

If you want to convince me, don't just label me biased. SHOW ME how these convenient revelations are more likely from God than from Muhammad himself.
Okay dawg
 
Faggot op is shunning islam to ... wait for it.... defend christianity.
Absolute subhuman cope.
" yes but but muh christianity is the truth " from the moment you admitted islam was tales you immediately admit that christianity is too, since islam is based off the bible.
The truth is religion is cope for you incels, it was never about believing, it was just to keep degeneracy at check and islam is doing that in a flawed but working way
 
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How is it? I'd really like to know.
I'm still not fully out of this religion yet im acting like a Muslim if i tell my friends I'm not religious ill probably loose most of em they're so brainwashed they don't know shit about they're religion and think they're always right and all the bad stuff that happens to them is because of they're not religious enough I have to cope with this bs for the coming few years before I leave this shithole :forcedsmile:
 
op is shunning islam to ... wait for it.... defend christianity.

1741623184420

1741623213480

1741623246063


You have the brain cells of a fucking toddler. Make your parents proud and donate your brain to science so that it's in better use.
 
Another chriscuck
 
chriscuck
Something being a favourable coincidence is assumed to be suspicious in your mind because you went into this little rant already having a fixed opinion on what you think you know.
 






The Quran tells Muslims to "slay the idolaters wherever you find them" in one verse, then preaches "there is no compulsion in religion" in another.

It commands followers to,



while simultaneously claiming,



The entire text is filled with these inconsistencies because it was written over decades by people trying to justify whatever political situation Muhammad found himself in.

Yes, I said what I said.

It wasn't revealed all at once. It came over 23 years as Muhammad's political situation evolved. Early Meccan suras when he was powerless? All about peace and tolerance. Later Medinan suras after he gained military power? Suddenly Allah's cool with conquest and subjugation.

The abrogation principle in Islamic jurisprudence even acknowledges this, later revelations supersede earlier ones when they conflict. That's why jihadists can justify violence while moderates can claim Islam is peaceful. They're both technically right, depending on which verses they cherry-pick.

It's a political document hiding as divine revelation. Muhammad was a brilliant political and military leader who used "revelation" to consolidate power and justify his actions. I'm not saying he didn't believe it himself (he probably did) but the convenient timing of Allah's messages is pretty damn suspicious.

Look at the pattern of revelations. Whenever Muhammad faced a personal or political challenge, conveniently a new revelation would arrive with exactly the solution he needed.

- When his followers questioned why he had more wives than the four they were limited to? Revelation: special exception for the prophet.
- When he wanted to marry his adopted son's ex-wife Zaynab, which violated Arab customs? Revelation: adoption isn't real in Islam, so it's fine.
- When his child bride Aisha was accused of adultery? Revelation: she's innocent and anyone who accuses her is to be flogged.
- When his followers were getting too comfortable in his house? Revelation: don't overstay your welcome at the prophet's home.

They're solutions to Muhammad's immediate problems.

The pattern is clear as day if you study the chronological order of Quranic revelations.

In Mecca, when Muslims were weak and persecuted, the revelations emphasized patience, tolerance, and peaceful coexistence:



Then after the Hijra to Medina, as Muhammad gained political and military power, suddenly Allah's message shifted dramatically to



The most violent, intolerant verses conveniently came when Muhammad needed to motivate his armies or justify conquest. The most peaceful verses came when he needed allies or was in a position of weakness.

Even Muhammad's personal life followed this pattern. In fact, it's where this pattern becomes most obvious.

Take his marriages. Normal Muslims were limited to four wives, but Muhammad ended up with at least nine concurrent wives. How? A special revelation in Surah Al-Ahzab (33:50) that explicitly gave him, and only him, this privilege.

Or look at the Zaynab incident (AGAIN). Muhammad became attracted to his adopted son Zayd's wife. Suddenly, Allah reveals that adoption isn't recognized in Islam (contradicting previous Arabian customs), Zayd divorces her, and Muhammad marries her. All justified by convenient revelation.

Even in his household disputes, when his wives complained about his favoritism toward Aisha or when they wanted more financial support, revelations came down threatening them with divorce if they didn't accept their situation.

And, it gets worse.

The Quran even has a verse specifically to resolve a domestic dispute between Muhammad and his wives over honey. Imagine that. The creator of the universe intervening because the prophet's wives were jealous about who got more honey. Jesus Christ.

And look at the evolution of jihad in the text. First it's defensive, then it becomes offensive, then it's about conquering the Arabian peninsula, then it's about expanding beyond. Each stage perfectly aligned with Muhammad's growing military power.

This isn't how divine revelation works. This is how a political movement works. The revelations are too convenient, too timely, too perfectly suited to Muhammad's immediate needs.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Muhammad wasn't sincere in his belief. He probably genuinely believed he was receiving divine messages. But sincerity doesn't equal truth.

Many cult leaders throughout history genuinely believed they were chosen by God. The human mind is remarkably good at self-deception, especially when power and influence are involved.

What's more damning is how the Quran claims to be the perfect, unchanged word of God while containing scientific errors that reflect 7th century Arabian understanding of the world.

It describes the sun setting in a muddy spring (18:86), mountains as pegs that prevent the earth from shaking (78:7), and embryology that's laughably wrong by modern standards.

If this were truly the word of an all-knowing deity, wouldn't it contain scientific insights beyond 7th century knowledge instead of just reflecting it?
Wouldn't its moral teachings transcend the cultural norms of that specific time and place?


The fundamental issue with Islam (and frankly with most religions that claim divine revelation) is that they require us to believe that the creator of the entire universe, black holes, quantum mechanics, and the human brain... somehow chose to reveal ultimate truth through one illiterate merchant in 7th century Arabia.

The evidence points to a much simpler explanation: Muhammad was a product of his time who created a religious-political movement that served his needs. He may have been sincere, he may have even been a genius, but that doesn't make his claims true.

What's fascinating is how Islam has survived by building in defense mechanisms - questioning the Quran is blasphemy, leaving the religion is apostasy punishable by death, and critical thinking about its origins is discouraged. These aren't features of truth; they're features of ideologies that can't withstand scrutiny.

I don't say this to be disrespectful. I say it because truth matters.

If Muslims want to practice their faith, that's their business. But when any religion claims absolute truth while showing clear signs of human origin, it deserves critical examination. The same standards I apply to Islam, I apply to all belief systems, including my own.

The difference is I've examined the evidence for Christianity and found it historically sound, not because it's comfortable or convenient, but because the historical case for the resurrection withstands scrutiny in ways Muhammad's night journey to Jerusalem on a winged horse simply doesn't.

Anyways, ciao.

View attachment 3553648

Wihch One Of These Questions Would You Like to Hear The Answer Of?
 
GIGA high IQ post. @SecularIslamist @Jason Voorhees
 
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Reactions: maximum cope31 and 2025cel
An extremely high IQ post.

But they will deny all of your arguments anyway.

Such is the nature for low the awareness human...
 
You have the brain cells of a fucking toddler. Make your parents proud and donate your brain to science so that it's in better use.
Christianity is the best religion invented.

It is no coincidence the religion invented by whites turned out to be superior, less limiting on life.

I shall pay a visit to a church, if I land a job in U.S.

God Bless Trump

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