Ram/braces

[Denkaren]

I’ve been working but I felt the need of lecturing some dickheads in this thread.

I think we can all agree that the maxilla has a major impact on facial aesthetics. It is essentially the central structural platform of the midface. When the maxilla is recessed, narrow, and rotated clockwise, it will contribute to several visible features, a nose that appears disproportionate, lip incompetence, low and flattened cheek support, dental crowding, reduced under-eye support, and overall midface deficiency.

This is why I’m strongly critical of orthodontic approaches, particularly retractive mechanics with braces(which basically 98% is). In my own case, I experienced significant facial changes during orthodontic treatment, this was years before my jaw surgery. I lost masseter fullness, under-eye support decreased, and my face appeared older and less supported overall. From an aesthetic standpoint, the impact was substantial.

It’s important to fucking know that the alveolar bone is the tooth-bearing portion of the maxilla, it is not separate from it. When teeth are retracted to match the bite, they move within the alveolar bone. Since the alveolar process is part of the maxilla, this movement will change dental and soft-tissue support, particularly lip posture and midface projection.
Study regarding regular orthodontics:

Morphological changes of the anterior alveolar bone due to retraction of anterior teeth: a retrospective study - PMC

To analyze the morphological changes of the anterior alveolar bone after the retraction of incisors in premolar extraction cases and the relationship between incisor retraction and remodeling of the alveolar base represented by points A and B ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

~Anterior alveolar bone, width and height decreases after orthodontic treatment.


Study regarding alveolar bone change after premolar extractions:

A systematic review of post-extractional alveolar hard and soft tissue dimensional changes in humans - PubMed

Human re-entry studies showed horizontal bone loss of 29-63% and vertical bone loss of 11-22% after 6 months following tooth extraction. These studies demonstrated rapid reductions in the first 3-6 months that was followed by gradual reductions in dimensions thereafter.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

~Human re-entry studies showed horizontal bone loss of 29-63% and vertical bone loss of 11-22% after 6 months following tooth extractions. This was followed by gradual reductions in dimension thereafter.

HOW would braces after alveolar bone loss NOT worsen facial appearance. Use your common fucking sense.

It’s A PART of your jaw and maxilla for the love of god. Where the fuck do you think the support comes from? What do you think happens once you lose much of this support. Will it rest on thin air or can it possible be that the alveolar bone plays a bigger part than this fraudulent dentist/orthodontist warns about?

Your face will sink like the fucking titanic.

It makes your teeth and bite good TEMPORARILY(Your fucking faggot teeth has cell memories, they will move back unless you have a retainer for the rest of your life which also will contribute to bone loss), at the cost of your function and overall aesthetics. I’m tired of being mr nice guy adapting to incels thinking they now everything. You’re a bunch of dweebs.

@lurking truecel
@Nahorscend
@jester
@Oliebol
@yussimania

 

[lurking truecel]

Damn, i have moved teeth with braces when young and i never wore any retainers but it never moved back. Like damn bruh ?

 

[L1mbal]

Damn, i have moved teeth with braces when young and i never wore any retainers but it never moved back. Like damn bruh ?

Probably differs from person to person, my brothers teeth were classified as likely to move, its the fibers that move the teeth like elastic

 

[lurking truecel]

Probably differs from person to person, my brothers teeth were classified as likely to move, its the fibers that move the teeth like elastic

Its a out how long you wear the braces, and retainers. Its like a rubber band, with time it wont go back. But also its about the angle in the bone

 

[L1mbal]

Its a out how long you wear the braces, and retainers. Its like a rubber band, with time it wont go back. But also its about the angle in the bone

My ortho said that ill have to wear the retainer for life, obviously thats for the worst case scenario, nothing ever happens

 

[yussimania]

I disagree as Lower Anterior Facial Height loss is minimal - none even with extract and retract; yes there will be a loss of alveolar bone but it's localised at the teeth. you're confusing the vertical loss of alveolar bone to the facial height. (This is assuming it's done via orthodontics not just extracting a tooth and forgetting about it)

If you had alveolar bone loss by orthodontics only the most it would do is affect nasolabial angle and the soft tissue.

Yes the Alveolar bone is part of the maxilla but you also have something called the basal maxilla that wouldn't even budge if you lost all your teeth. So just because you lose alveolar bone doesn't mean it will affect the rest of the maxilla.

 

[Denkaren]

I disagree as Lower Anterior Facial Height loss is minimal - none even with extract and retract; yes there will be a loss of alveolar bone but it's localised at the teeth. you're confusing the vertical loss of alveolar bone to the facial height. (This is assuming it's done via orthodontics not just extracting a tooth and forgetting about it)

If you had alveolar bone loss by orthodontics only the most it would do is affect nasolabial angle and the soft tissue.

Yes the Alveolar bone is part of the maxilla but you also have something called the basal maxilla that wouldn't even budge if you lost all your teeth. So just because you lose alveolar bone doesn't mean it will affect the rest of the maxilla.

Both WIDTH AND HEIGHT. Read the study.

The soft tissue are extremely extrenly important when it comes to aesthetic. Why do you think Raffaini result are so “superior”. It’s because he does soft tissue enhancement. Yes you have something called the BaSal maxilla. The alveolar bone litteraly contributes to midfacial contour, soft tissue drape and most importantly(what the absolute vast majority of you don’t seem to understand) THE PERCEIVED SKELETAL PROJECTION. You can have the best basal maxilla in the world, if you’ve retracted the alveolar bone by braces you will still be perceived as recessed.

Many already know this but for some strange reason it is hard to convince the jaw-surgery merchants. You focus way to much on the skeletal part.

 

[Denkaren]

My ortho said that ill have to wear the retainer for life, obviously thats for the worst case scenario, nothing ever happens

Why do you think you have to use it for life.
Be honest with yourself now, do you think it’s good for the root to have something forcing it do be in a certain position?

The only natural retainer is your tongue but you incels will never understand this.

 

[Denkaren]

It’s an out how long you wear the braces, and retainers. It’s like a rubber band, with time it wont go back. But also its about the angle in the bone

“With time it won’t go back”. Sure buddy. Remove the retainer later on, your mouth will look like a warzone again.

 

[Denkaren]

Damn, i have moved teeth with braces when young and i never wore any retainers but it never moved back. Like damn bruh ?

Analyse your cunt face before using braces.

You might realise that the reason you took this jaw surgery path was after drastic face-change with braces.

Now this is just my guess, you might’ve been cooked from the start. Luckily I haven’t seen your face so I can’t comment on that.

 

[lurking truecel]

“With time it won’t go back”. Sure buddy. Remove the retainer later on, your mouth will look like a warzone again.

I never had retainers, and it didnt move. Heard many say similar

 

[lurking truecel]

Analyse your cunt face before using braces.

You might realise that the reason you took this jaw surgery path was after drastic face-change with braces.

Now this is just my guess, you might’ve been cooked from the start. Luckily I haven’t seen your face so I can’t comment on that.

I mean it was the same before and after, most braces improve how you look because a better bite makes you function better. If its not very camouflaged. But most of the time it isnt. Having a bad bite tho from not doing braces ready is a speed run for all damage one can think off, muscle imbalance, bad teeth wear, random positioning of teeth because no stable bite. Etc also makes it more damaging if you want to wear braces in the future as you need to do big movements again

 

[jester]

I’ve been working but I felt the need of lecturing some dickheads in this thread.

I think we can all agree that the maxilla has a major impact on facial aesthetics. It is essentially the central structural platform of the midface. When the maxilla is recessed, narrow, and rotated clockwise, it will contribute to several visible features, a nose that appears disproportionate, lip incompetence, low and flattened cheek support, dental crowding, reduced under-eye support, and overall midface deficiency.

This is why I’m strongly critical of orthodontic approaches, particularly retractive mechanics with braces(which basically 98% is). In my own case, I experienced significant facial changes during orthodontic treatment, this was years before my jaw surgery. I lost masseter fullness, under-eye support decreased, and my face appeared older and less supported overall. From an aesthetic standpoint, the impact was substantial.

It’s important to fucking know that the alveolar bone is the tooth-bearing portion of the maxilla, it is not separate from it. When teeth are retracted to match the bite, they move within the alveolar bone. Since the alveolar process is part of the maxilla, this movement will change dental and soft-tissue support, particularly lip posture and midface projection.
Study regarding regular orthodontics:

Morphological changes of the anterior alveolar bone due to retraction of anterior teeth: a retrospective study - PMC

To analyze the morphological changes of the anterior alveolar bone after the retraction of incisors in premolar extraction cases and the relationship between incisor retraction and remodeling of the alveolar base represented by points A and B ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

~Anterior alveolar bone, width and height decreases after orthodontic treatment.


Study regarding alveolar bone change after premolar extractions:

A systematic review of post-extractional alveolar hard and soft tissue dimensional changes in humans - PubMed

Human re-entry studies showed horizontal bone loss of 29-63% and vertical bone loss of 11-22% after 6 months following tooth extraction. These studies demonstrated rapid reductions in the first 3-6 months that was followed by gradual reductions in dimensions thereafter.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

~Human re-entry studies showed horizontal bone loss of 29-63% and vertical bone loss of 11-22% after 6 months following tooth extractions. This was followed by gradual reductions in dimension thereafter.

HOW would braces after alveolar bone loss NOT worsen facial appearance. Use your common fucking sense.

It’s A PART of your jaw and maxilla for the love of god. Where the fuck do you think the support comes from? What do you think happens once you lose much of this support. Will it rest on thin air or can it possible be that the alveolar bone plays a bigger part than this fraudulent dentist/orthodontist warns about?

Your face will sink like the fucking titanic.

It makes your teeth and bite good TEMPORARILY(Your fucking faggot teeth has cell memories, they will move back unless you have a retainer for the rest of your life which also will contribute to bone loss), at the cost of your function and overall aesthetics. I’m tired of being mr nice guy adapting to incels thinking they now everything. You’re a bunch of dweebs.

@lurking truecel
@Nahorscend
@jester
@Oliebol
@yussimania

why did i get pinged lol

 

[Denkaren]

why did i get pinged lol

Why not

 

[Denkaren]

I mean it was the same before and after, most braces improve how you look because a better bite makes you function better. If its not very camouflaged. But most of the time it isnt. Having a bad bite tho from not doing braces ready is a speed run for all damage one can think off, muscle imbalance, bad teeth wear, random positioning of teeth because no stable bite. Etc also makes it more damaging if you want to wear braces in the future as you need to do big movements again

Hahahahha lies.

Whatever makes you feel good I guess

 

[lurking truecel]

Hahahahha lies.

Whatever makes you feel good I guess

If you do class 3 elastics and make the teeth wider it will make your function and everything better for most people. Retraction ortho is when you remove teeth, also its lore ideal to have the teeth straight in the bone the tilted forward

 

[jester]

Why not

i thought you were calling me a dickhead dweeb lol
all good

 

[tyler1234]

If you do class 3 elastics and make the teeth wider it will make your function and everything better for most people. Retraction ortho is when you remove teeth, also its lore ideal to have the teeth straight in the bone the tilted forward

Idk why People think only extractions cause recession when it’s both Pulling teeth and pulling teeth backwards .

 

[IDontBlameAnybody]

Idk why People think only extractions cause recession when it’s both Pulling teeth and pulling teeth backwards .

Im getting braces for lefort 1 and I literally have no other option than than premolar extractions to decompensate my teeth and then do surgery so yeah…

 

[Denkaren]

Im getting braces for lefort 1 and I literally have no other option than than premolar extractions to decompensate my teeth and then do surgery so yeah…

DONT DO IT

Listen to me whatever you do, don’t proceed.

Premolar extractions in the upper or lower jaw?

 

[Denkaren]

Idk why People think only extractions cause recession when it’s both Pulling teeth and pulling teeth backwards .

Obviously but @lurking truecel makes his own happiness

 

[Denkaren]

If you do class 3 elastics and make the teeth wider it will make your function and everything better for most people. Retraction ortho is when you remove teeth, also its lore ideal to have the teeth straight in the bone the tilted forward

Elastics…

 

[tyler1234]

Im getting braces for lefort 1 and I literally have no other option than than premolar extractions to decompensate my teeth and then do surgery so yeah…

This just makes no sense ur ortho must be a retard show me ur teeth

 

[IDontBlameAnybody]

DONT DO IT

Listen to me whatever you do, don’t proceed.

Premolar extractions in the upper or lower jaw?

I have no other choice lmao, my palate width is normal but there is no room to decompensate, it's either extractions or I will be with a recessed maxilla forever. Also I can try getting a palate expander but this shit will cost me a lot more and you will need to find a really fucking good ortho who will expand and your palate and decompensate your teeth at the same time.

Getting extractions for surgery as a 20 year old male is a bit different than getting it without surgery.

 

[IDontBlameAnybody]

This just makes no sense ur ortho must be a retard show me ur teeth

So you are telling me you have never heard of extractions for decompensation?

 

[IDontBlameAnybody]

DONT DO IT

Listen to me whatever you do, don’t proceed.

Premolar extractions in the upper or lower jaw?

Extractions for the upper jaw. 1 teeth from each side.

 

[IDontBlameAnybody]

This just makes no sense ur ortho must be a retard show me ur teeth

My teeth are nice, no crowding, straight and okay palate width. I also talked to some female in Reddit who said that she needed extractions for jaw surgery aswell and tried so much shit for years to successfully decomp because she didnt want her tooth extracted, but she ended up fucking things up even more so she finally settled for extractions and got the surgery. She said that she doesn't regret it. I might be coping because I'm the one who needs extractions for jaw surgery lol, but hey, there is nothing else I can do, I can wait for like a fucking year for another orthos opinion, maybe even longer.

 

[tyler1234]

My teeth are nice, no crowding, straight and okay palate width. I also talked to some female in Reddit who said that she needed extractions for jaw surgery aswell and tried so much shit for years to successfully decomp because she didnt want her tooth extracted, but she ended up fucking things up even more so she finally settled for extractions and got the surgery. She said that she doesn't regret it. I might be coping because I'm the one who needs extractions for jaw surgery lol, but hey, there is nothing else I can do, I can wait for like a fucking year for another orthos opinion, maybe even longer.

Can we see ur teeth ? Why would u need to wait for a year for another ortho

So you are telling me you have never heard of extractions for decompensation?

yes if ur teeth are flared

 

[Doom0]

I’ve been working but I felt the need of lecturing some dickheads in this thread.

I think we can all agree that the maxilla has a major impact on facial aesthetics. It is essentially the central structural platform of the midface. When the maxilla is recessed, narrow, and rotated clockwise, it will contribute to several visible features, a nose that appears disproportionate, lip incompetence, low and flattened cheek support, dental crowding, reduced under-eye support, and overall midface deficiency.

This is why I’m strongly critical of orthodontic approaches, particularly retractive mechanics with braces(which basically 98% is). In my own case, I experienced significant facial changes during orthodontic treatment, this was years before my jaw surgery. I lost masseter fullness, under-eye support decreased, and my face appeared older and less supported overall. From an aesthetic standpoint, the impact was substantial.

It’s important to fucking know that the alveolar bone is the tooth-bearing portion of the maxilla, it is not separate from it. When teeth are retracted to match the bite, they move within the alveolar bone. Since the alveolar process is part of the maxilla, this movement will change dental and soft-tissue support, particularly lip posture and midface projection.
Study regarding regular orthodontics:

Morphological changes of the anterior alveolar bone due to retraction of anterior teeth: a retrospective study - PMC

To analyze the morphological changes of the anterior alveolar bone after the retraction of incisors in premolar extraction cases and the relationship between incisor retraction and remodeling of the alveolar base represented by points A and B ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

~Anterior alveolar bone, width and height decreases after orthodontic treatment.


Study regarding alveolar bone change after premolar extractions:

A systematic review of post-extractional alveolar hard and soft tissue dimensional changes in humans - PubMed

Human re-entry studies showed horizontal bone loss of 29-63% and vertical bone loss of 11-22% after 6 months following tooth extraction. These studies demonstrated rapid reductions in the first 3-6 months that was followed by gradual reductions in dimensions thereafter.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

~Human re-entry studies showed horizontal bone loss of 29-63% and vertical bone loss of 11-22% after 6 months following tooth extractions. This was followed by gradual reductions in dimension thereafter.

HOW would braces after alveolar bone loss NOT worsen facial appearance. Use your common fucking sense.

It’s A PART of your jaw and maxilla for the love of god. Where the fuck do you think the support comes from? What do you think happens once you lose much of this support. Will it rest on thin air or can it possible be that the alveolar bone plays a bigger part than this fraudulent dentist/orthodontist warns about?

Your face will sink like the fucking titanic.

It makes your teeth and bite good TEMPORARILY(Your fucking faggot teeth has cell memories, they will move back unless you have a retainer for the rest of your life which also will contribute to bone loss), at the cost of your function and overall aesthetics. I’m tired of being mr nice guy adapting to incels thinking they now everything. You’re a bunch of dweebs.

@lurking truecel
@Nahorscend
@jester
@Oliebol
@yussimania

most modern orthodontic treatment is fine, alot of people use expanders and self ligating braces and try to make room, rubber bands arent a problem most of the time. You should never extract ANY teeth and wear headgear otherwise you're gonna descend like crazy and your airway is gonna be FUCKED

 

[IDontBlameAnybody]

Can we see ur teeth ? Why would u need to wait for a year for another ortho

yes if ur teeth are flared

Sent you a dm. My teeth are flared though, they camouflaged naturally to compensate for my class 3.

 

[Denkaren]

My teeth are nice, no crowding, straight and okay palate width. I also talked to some female in Reddit who said that she needed extractions for jaw surgery aswell and tried so much shit for years to successfully decomp, but she ended up fucking things up even more so she finally settled for extractions and got the surgery. She said that she doesn't regret it. I might be coping because I'm the one who needs extractions for jaw surgery lol, but hey, there is nothing else I can do, I can wait for like a fucking year for another orthos opinion, maybe even longer.

Listen, you will fuck yourself up if you proceed with premolar extraction. Your palatal length will decrease~8 mm.

Advancing your basal maxilla won’t make up for the palatal loss. This is the big error in this whole field. The vast majority of surgeons doesn’t even realise it. They want to match your bite. Seek second opinions and choose another one.

You will regret it for the rest of your life, it’s irreversible no matter how many mm they advance your maxilla.

 

[IDontBlameAnybody]

Listen, you will fuck yourself up if you proceed with premolar extraction. Your palatal length will decrease~8 mm.

Advancing your basal maxilla won’t make up for the palatal loss. This is the big error in this whole field. The vast majority of surgeons doesn’t even realise it. They want to match your bite. Seek second opinions and choose another one.

You will regret it for the rest of your life, it’s irreversible no matter how many mm they advance your maxilla.

She got a DJS, she had to extract 4 premolars for the decomp braces. I don't see a 8mm decrease in the palatal length. It's just a result I found from reddit. She also said she didn't use any expanders and that her lefort was not segmental.

You know extractions for camouflage ortho and extractions for decomp are 2 very different things?
I'm not even trying to shit on your theory, I've seen so many fucking horror stories on some people who got extractions and fuck it kinda makes me shit my pants.

 

[lurking truecel]

View attachment 4675806
She got a DJS, she had to extract 4 premolars for the decomp braces. I don't see a 8mm decrease in the palatal length. It's just a result I found from reddit. She also said she didn't use any expanders and that her lefort was not segmental.

You know extractions for camouflage ortho and extractions for decomp are 2 very different things?
I'm not even trying to shit on your theory, I've seen so many fucking horror stories on some people who got extractions and fuck it kinda makes me shit my pants.

Its horror stories without any real proof or well documented before and after. Yes some bone in the alveolar region is lost. But just from moving teeth with braces alone you lose some bone. And bimax itself makes bone less dens etc. Its litteraly makes no diff, the people who say extractions made their life worse are just mad they needed it to begin with because they had a narrow jaw palate

 

[nishka]

Its horror stories without any real proof or well documented before and after. Yes some bone in the alveolar region is lost. But just from moving teeth with braces alone you lose some bone. And bimax itself makes bone less dens etc. Its litteraly makes no diff, the people who say extractions made their life worse are just mad they needed it to begin with because they had a narrow jaw palate

Hey lurking I am 6 days post op and I have a posterior open bite ( back teeth are not touching on either side) just wanted to ask if I should be worried or panicking they are using elastics also still a lot of swelling what do you think?

 

[IDontBlameAnybody]

Its horror stories without any real proof or well documented before and after. Yes some bone in the alveolar region is lost. But just from moving teeth with braces alone you lose some bone. And bimax itself makes bone less dens etc. Its litteraly makes no diff, the people who say extractions made their life worse are just mad they needed it to begin with because they had a narrow jaw palate

Okay gotchu, I just had my wisdom teeth extracted a few days ago and the doc happened to be a maxfac himself, he also told me that I'm kind of coping and premolar extractions won't fuck you up usually, especially in jaw surgery cases like mine. And in reddit, some people who had to get premolars extracted like me for their jaw surgery, told me that it all went well and that they are happy with their results, some even said their new smile looks way better.

Anyways, either way shit tons of people will still tell me that it'll fuck me up and I should never ever do it, I'll still go for it and hopefully everything goes well.

 

[Denkaren]

Okay gotchu, I just had my wisdom teeth extracted a few days ago and the doc happened to be a maxfac himself, he also told me that I'm kind of coping and premolar extractions won't fuck you up usually, especially in jaw surgery cases like mine. And in reddit, some people who had to get premolars extracted like me for their jaw surgery, told me that it all went well and that they are happy with their results, some even said their new smile looks way better.

Anyways, either way shit tons of people will still tell me that it'll fuck me up and I should never ever do it, I'll still go for it and hopefully everything goes well.

Wisdom and premolars…

Are you a troll?

 

[lurking truecel]

Okay gotchu, I just had my wisdom teeth extracted a few days ago and the doc happened to be a maxfac himself, he also told me that I'm kind of coping and premolar extractions won't fuck you up usually, especially in jaw surgery cases like mine. And in reddit, some people who had to get premolars extracted like me for their jaw surgery, told me that it all went well and that they are happy with their results, some even said their new smile looks way better.

Anyways, either way shit tons of people will still tell me that it'll fuck me up and I should never ever do it, I'll still go for it and hopefully everything goes well.

I mean send some scans of your teeth, it's about how it looks and how your teeth are inclined compared to your bones

 

[lurking truecel]

Hey lurking I am 6 days post op and I have a posterior open bite ( back teeth are not touching on either side) just wanted to ask if I should be worried or panicking they are using elastics also still a lot of swelling what do you think?

Nah its not worriesome, depends on how big ofc. But you should be fine, follow their instructions

 

[.dunkbro]

Wisdom and premolars…

Are you a troll?

You are probably right about this, but in this case if someones teeth are crooked what should they do in the situation? Get Invisalign?? im curious

 

[IDontBlameAnybody]

I mean send some scans of your teeth, it's about how it looks and how your teeth are inclined compared to your bones

sent you a dm

 

[Denkaren]

Nah its not worriesome, depends on how big ofc. But you should be fine, follow their instructions

Nah its not worriesome, depends on how big ofc. But you should be fine, follow their instructions

Don’t listen to this fraud.

YOU NEED PALATAL LENGHT.
Fuck me, you will realise this later in life. Suit yourself.

 

[Denkaren]

You are probably right about this, but in this case if someones teeth are crooked what should they do in the situation? Get Invisalign?? im curious

You need to understand the underlying reasons why your teeth are crooked. Expansion is an option, but I’m not a big fan of transverse expanders like TAD-based devices. The body is three-dimensional, you need more posterior than anterior expansion and forward. Marpe/fme/ease gives poor results because the sutures are more loose in the front. It doesn’t matter if you get a parallel split, you still need more at the posterior. Why? Because the tongue are wider at the posterior part.

In my opinion, a two-piece segmental Le Fort I (not three-piece, as the risk of unwanted anterior positioning is too high) offers the best chance of fast, good results. However, it carries significant risks and depends on how much you want it. Personally, I wouldn’t risk reduced taste sensation I can’t imagine enjoying life as much if my taste buds were worse. There are also risks of sinus issues, non-union, nasal dripping, and chronic congestion.

Whatever you do, DONT EXTRACT ANY TEETH, your dependant on your palatal length. From a tongue perspective, advancing the maxilla 5 mm doesn’t matter if 5 mm of palatal length was lost after extractions. The tongue needs palatal length. You can have a very forward-grown basal maxilla, but if retraction and alveolar bone resorption have shortened the palate, you will still appear recessed.

This video show what happens to your palatal length once premolars are extracted and gap closed by retraction. This is irreversible damage, your alveolar bone won’t grow just because you advance the maxilla.

@IDontBlameAnybody

 

[IDontBlameAnybody]

You need to understand the underlying reasons why your teeth are crooked. Expansion is an option, but I’m not a big fan of transverse expanders like TAD-based devices. The body is three-dimensional, you need more posterior than anterior expansion and forward. Marpe/fme/ease gives poor results because the sutures are more loose in the front. It doesn’t matter if you get a parallel split, you still need more at the posterior. Why? Because the tongue are wider at the posterior part.

In my opinion, a two-piece segmental Le Fort I (not three-piece, as the risk of unwanted anterior positioning is too high) offers the best chance of fast, good results. However, it carries significant risks and depends on how much you want it. Personally, I wouldn’t risk reduced taste sensation I can’t imagine enjoying life as much if my taste buds were worse. There are also risks of sinus issues, non-union, nasal dripping, and chronic congestion.

Whatever you do, DONT EXTRACT ANY TEETH, your dependant on your palatal length. From a tongue perspective, advancing the maxilla 5 mm doesn’t matter if 5 mm of palatal length was lost after extractions. The tongue needs palatal length. You can have a very forward-grown basal maxilla, but if retraction and alveolar bone resorption have shortened the palate, you will still appear recessed.

This video show what happens to your palatal length once premolars are extracted and gap closed by retraction. This is irreversible damage, your alveolar bone won’t grow just because you advance the maxilla.

@IDontBlameAnybody

I sent you some pics, my teeth are not crooked.

 

[.dunkbro]

You need to understand the underlying reasons why your teeth are crooked. Expansion is an option, but I’m not a big fan of transverse expanders like TAD-based devices. The body is three-dimensional, you need more posterior than anterior expansion and forward. Marpe/fme/ease gives poor results because the sutures are more loose in the front. It doesn’t matter if you get a parallel split, you still need more at the posterior. Why? Because the tongue are wider at the posterior part.

In my opinion, a two-piece segmental Le Fort I (not three-piece, as the risk of unwanted anterior positioning is too high) offers the best chance of fast, good results. However, it carries significant risks and depends on how much you want it. Personally, I wouldn’t risk reduced taste sensation I can’t imagine enjoying life as much if my taste buds were worse. There are also risks of sinus issues, non-union, nasal dripping, and chronic congestion.

Whatever you do, DONT EXTRACT ANY TEETH, your dependant on your palatal length. From a tongue perspective, advancing the maxilla 5 mm doesn’t matter if 5 mm of palatal length was lost after extractions. The tongue needs palatal length. You can have a very forward-grown basal maxilla, but if retraction and alveolar bone resorption have shortened the palate, you will still appear recessed.

This video show what happens to your palatal length once premolars are extracted and gap closed by retraction. This is irreversible damage, your alveolar bone won’t grow just because you advance the maxilla.

@IDontBlameAnybody

can I send u some pics?

 

[.dunkbro]

You need to understand the underlying reasons why your teeth are crooked. Expansion is an option, but I’m not a big fan of transverse expanders like TAD-based devices. The body is three-dimensional, you need more posterior than anterior expansion and forward. Marpe/fme/ease gives poor results because the sutures are more loose in the front. It doesn’t matter if you get a parallel split, you still need more at the posterior. Why? Because the tongue are wider at the posterior part.

In my opinion, a two-piece segmental Le Fort I (not three-piece, as the risk of unwanted anterior positioning is too high) offers the best chance of fast, good results. However, it carries significant risks and depends on how much you want it. Personally, I wouldn’t risk reduced taste sensation I can’t imagine enjoying life as much if my taste buds were worse. There are also risks of sinus issues, non-union, nasal dripping, and chronic congestion.

Whatever you do, DONT EXTRACT ANY TEETH, your dependant on your palatal length. From a tongue perspective, advancing the maxilla 5 mm doesn’t matter if 5 mm of palatal length was lost after extractions. The tongue needs palatal length. You can have a very forward-grown basal maxilla, but if retraction and alveolar bone resorption have shortened the palate, you will still appear recessed.

This video show what happens to your palatal length once premolars are extracted and gap closed by retraction. This is irreversible damage, your alveolar bone won’t grow just because you advance the maxilla.

@IDontBlameAnybody

I dmed u

 

[Denkaren]

View attachment 4675806
She got a DJS, she had to extract 4 premolars for the decomp braces. I don't see a 8mm decrease in the palatal length. It's just a result I found from reddit. She also said she didn't use any expanders and that her lefort was not segmental.

You know extractions for camouflage ortho and extractions for decomp are 2 very different things?
I'm not even trying to shit on your theory, I've seen so many fucking horror stories on some people who got extractions and fuck it kinda makes me shit my pants.

Look how the spark in her eyes vanished…

Premolars destroy your youthful appearance and in the long run your health.

It’s just sad at this point. Sad that this knowledge isn’t mainstream.

 

[IDontBlameAnybody]

Look how the spark in her eyes vanished…

Premolars destroy your youthful appearance and in the long run your health.

It’s just sad at this point. Sad that this knowledge isn’t mainstream.

Different lightning + I'd argue her eyes look literally the same. But what about her palate width? It's pretty obvious from the front that nothing changed. Ik it's just 1 case, but like still, most of the people who got extractions for JAW SURGERY SPECIFICALLY told me that it didn't affect them negatively at all.

 

[lurking truecel]

Look how the spark in her eyes vanished…

Premolars destroy your youthful appearance and in the long run your health.

It’s just sad at this point. Sad that this knowledge isn’t mainstream.

Looks better, and also your suggestions seems to be to do nothing most of the time. You are too scared of even having braces on. This problem will not be solved ny mewing bruh

 

[LEFORT17]

Look how the spark in her eyes vanished…

Premolars destroy your youthful appearance and in the long run your health.

It’s just sad at this point. Sad that this knowledge isn’t mainstream.

interesting but at the same time retarded takes... ur kinda like the org goatis

 

[Denkaren]

Looks better, and also your suggestions seems to be to do nothing most of the time. You are too scared of even having braces on. This problem will not be solved ny mewing bruh

You have admitted that you’re bipolar, I can’t take your opinion on things serious.

By this time you just type shit. No substance anymore.