rate sleep stack

[PharmaPhaggot]

thank you

its frustrating when people won't read evidence provided against their point and just spew insults

I have no issue with somebody refuting my claims but doing so by calling me a retard instead of actually providing any evidence is unfair and ridiculous

Yeah ty for repping too, forgot to press post ob my last response

Tbh he seems jester, im suprised if he gives sources

 

[AtrophicPyra]

whether my dose shuts down my natural production it doesn't matter. I'm gonna keep taking it for the rest of my life anyway. I notice on the days I forget I still sleep fine it just takes longer to fall asleep (5-10 mins w/melatonin; 10-30 mins without)

LMAO

nigga are you dracula

 

[sami04]

No because we 100+ things that can do that, do you expect doctors to put patients on 100+ meds?

I’m saying that if high dose melatonin had strong a outcome, i'd reckon it'd be at least be a major topic in large cardiovascular or metabolic trials

Idk i havent counted them, but yoi clearly missed the point megadoses are not for better sleep but to get the antioxidants benefits of melatonin

ok, if the goal is antioxidant benefit where r the human trials showing that 50+ mg produces actual improvements beyond biomarker changes?

He made many claims, not just prcatical claims, this one backs up his claims about the theory behind it all

theoretical pathway support doesn’t automatically mean that high dose melatonin produces actual health benefits

If you need randomized control trials scroll fown to the third link and you can read that the meta analysis was made of 15 randomized control trials

nga im not denying the fact that there are rcts but im asking whether those were long term, used high dosage and showed reduction in outcomes
tdlr: i know melatonin has antioxidant benefits, some short supportive studies and interesting mechanisms overall however i believe that there is no strong evidence from large, long term, randomized human trials that shows high dosage will give you antioxidants which lower dosage will give. especially regarding hard outcomes he claimed like heart diseases. biomarker improvements don’t automatically justify megadose recommendations.

 

[sami04]

Yeah ty for repping too, forgot to press post ob my last response

Tbh he seems jester, im suprised if he gives sources

actually i did give a source back then regarding my claims and what sources do you want me to give? im happy to provide

 

[PharmaPhaggot]

I’m saying that if high dose melatonin had strong a outcome, i'd reckon it'd be at least be a major topic in large cardiovascular or metabolic trials

Thats a false assumption based on nothing, again a million things can do this do you efect them to be 100000 pages?

ok, if the goal is antioxidant benefit where r the human trials showing that 50+ mg produces actual improvements beyond biomarker changes?

Biomarkers is a way to quantify the state, its like saying if youre richer why is there no improvements other thsn more money in your account

theoretical pathway support doesn’t automatically mean that high dose melatonin produces actual health benefits

Thats why there isnt just theoretical reasoning, there mechanistic and empirical evidence provided, both which you have yet to emgage with, and i suspect havent even actually read

actually i did give a source back then regarding my claims and what sources do you want me to give? im happy to provide

You gave a source on a seperate discussion with another user, not with me or rotations which claim that mega doses are beneficial for health in many ways, nothing about feedbsck or rem sleep

nga im not denying the fact that there are rcts but im asking whether those were long term, used high dosage and showed reduction in outcomes
tdlr: i know melatonin has antioxidant benefits, some short supportive studies and interesting mechanisms overall however i believe that there is no strong evidence from large, long term, randomized human trials that shows high dosage will give you antioxidants which lower dosage will give. especially regarding hard outcomes he claimed like heart diseases. biomarker improvements don’t automatically justify megadose recommendations.

Actually read what youre provided if youre gonns critique it

https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3425/15/10/1040

4 years isnt long enough? And they had lower rates of arterial hypertension, ischemic heart disease, and diabetes mellitus

 

[sami04]

Thats a false assumption based on nothing, again a million things can do this do you efect them to be 100000 pages?

Biomarkers is a way to quantify the state, its like saying if youre richer why is there no improvements other thsn more money in your account

they are useful, but changes in biomarkers don’t always mean real clinical outcome improvements

Thats why there isnt just theoretical reasoning, there mechanistic and empirical evidence provided, both which you have yet to emgage with, and i suspect havent even actually read

nigga im questioning whether those signals are strong enough from large long term randomized human trials to justify recommending 30–200 mg daily

You gave a source on a seperate discussion with another user, not with me or rotations which claim that mega doses are beneficial for health in many ways, nothing about feedbsck or rem sleep


Actually read what youre provided if youre gonns critique it

https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3425/15/10/1040

4 years isnt long enough? And they had lower rates of arterial hypertension, ischemic heart disease, and diabetes mellitus

like ive asked, what sources do you want me to provide?
I did read the sources. My critique is about how the results are being interpreted, not about the existence of the studies themselves
and imo 4 years is not necessarily short, but for disease prevention or longevity related claims, longer large randomized trials are usually used. The main issue is also that the study isn’t randomized and has limited sample strength

 

[PharmaPhaggot]

they are useful, but changes in biomarkers don’t always mean real clinical outcome improvements

They are measures of actual function, if they dont correlate very closedly youlll always in hindsite find issued with the originsl methods

nigga im questioning whether those signals are strong enough from large long term randomized human trials to justify recommending 30–200 mg daily

Yeah and if you wanna make a mechanistic argument engsge with the mechsnistic evidence, if you dont move on

like ive asked, what sources do you want me to provide?

Provide some good empiricak evidence since youre not debunking ours

did read the sources. My critique is about how the results are being interpreted, not about the existence of the studies themselves

Then be specific why their interpretation is faulty, dont just say you dont like it

and imo 4 years is not necessarily short, but for disease prevention or longevity related claims, longer large randomized trials are usually used. The main issue is also that the study isn’t randomized and has limited sample strength

Meta analisys is randomized, theres also a lot more ojr there, a lot more in @rotation thread and a lot more to read on pubmed
Sample aizes arent anythingoit of ordinary

Why would longer ones be needed unless its for safety which is the reason super long ones are needed and your issue was effectiveness, also 4 years is very much considered easily long enough for such treatments, you can have a differing opinion its just not significant unless you show why instead of just saying imo

 

[stormulfr]

100mg melatonin
500mg magnesium glyc
sweet dreams tea

this puts me out pretty quick even tho its natty cope

100mg of melatonin

 

[ce10098]

100mg of melatonin

Yea nigga

 

[stormulfr]

Yea nigga

ima try that shit

 

[ce10098]

ima try that shit

You gotta triate up

 

[ntstephn]

100mg melatonin
500mg magnesium glyc
sweet dreams tea

this puts me out pretty quick even tho its natty cope

how tf you wake up on 100mg

 

[ascend_or_death]

have u deadaas tried 100 mg or u larping

Melatonin isn’t just for sleep it’s a great anti inflammatory taking under 20 is useless for that

 

[ce10098]

how tf you wake up on 100mg

Sleepy for like 30 mins after waking up

 

[ntstephn]

Sleepy for like 30 mins after waking up

maybe start with 20mg or use some edibles that’s genuinely safer

 

[rotation]

like ive asked, what sources do you want me to provide?

anything that backs up your points, because currently its a game of 'in my opinion' etc

how can I disprove you if you provide nothing to disprove?

 

[sami04]

anything that backs up your points, because currently its a game of 'in my opinion' etc

how can I disprove you if you provide nothing to disprove?

ive already stated my question like 5 times and pharma ignores it or js says idk lol, i’m questioning whether the current evidence is strong enough to justify recommending 30–200 mg daily for disease prevention. the burden of proof is on you for making the recommendation. you claim high dosage melatonin has high antioxidant benefits but that requires strong large scale randomized human trials with hard endpoints. the study he's constantly referring back upon to is small, non randomized and even the author themselves state that causality cannot be inferred, so doesnt that make it hypothesis generating and not definitive evidence. especially for recommending such a high dosage to people. im not saying its not interesting, it is but i cant support the idea of such a high dosage without definitive concrete evidence

 

[ce10098]

maybe start with 20mg or use some edibles that’s genuinely safer

Hitting the yart makes you sleepymaxxed

 

[trenbolone8883]

it can affect how the circadian rhythm signal is expressed while you’re taking it

fuck the cycadian ryhtm nigga wtf is this