Religion is nonsensical

[alwazzab]

Im presuming your muslim through “passing by the dunya”. Will respond as such. Doesnt matter really as these are broad claims regarding theism as a totality, only for examples will I use the islamic faith. Skip over those if you arnt muslim.

God can remove boredom - all negative feeling since He made them.
Just because you cant conceive is irrelevant.

Not an issue of boredom, nor any “negative feeling”. I granted for arguments sake that it is somehow true, dont know why you felt it was necessary to respond to that. I know of heaven not much more than you do. Which is why I conceded. Even then, heaven being infinitely joyous does not justify the existence of hell. A select people getting an eternally blissful afterlife does not justify another select getting eternally tortured.

'Why did He make rules and I have to follow them?'

Trvke. Why would he create someone of whom was nothing, to put them under strict rules followed by punishments?

He gave you the ability to repent until your last breath
He doesnt want perfection - Just sincerity and humility until you die
Threats are good - why do you follow the law? To avoid going to jail.
The biggest punishment is Hell.

Wrong. Both the religions listed above have requirements that go beyond just “sincerity and humility”. Even that concept is absurd, sincere to whom and humiliate myself to whom? There is nothing tangible to be sincere to nor humiliate myself towards. Why does god require that as a prerequisite for achieving bliss in the hereafter? You first asserted that rules do exist, then you said “he just wants sincerity” This whole point is as good as if it were blank. Literally says nothing. If I asked you whether a hindu, who worshipped idols would go to heaven, even being that he was of good character, humble, charitable, sincere in all deeds, without faith in god he is still bound to hell. What are you talking about? If all it took was sincerity and humility, then the doctrinal belief is irrelevant, but it isnt… you can not claim both.

Cope
Punishing Evil for eternity - How perfect.

Already being egotistical and disgusting
He doesnt need your 'attention' - you really think He needs your attention? A bag of meat and sh*t thinking highly of himself

??? Should I even keep reading? If he doesnt need my attention, why is that a prerequisite to not burn for eternity? When the Quran commentates about hell, its gives most vile description. Hitler himself would not have thought of doing this to the most stereotypical jew if he had the power to do so.

Examples (islamically):
Burning then regeneration of burnt parts so that you can go into an infinite cycle of agony
… chapter 4 verse 56

He made rules and those who follow can never be equal to those who dont.
Those who follow will be rewarded and those who dont will also be rewarded but in different ways.

before creating people, as the all knowing omnipotent being, he knew who would follow the rules and who wouldnt. How come they are not equal?

The gap between God and Man is infinite - so rejecting somebody infinitely greater than you will result in infinite punishment.

Its crazy to me how stupid someone has to be to assert this. “Infinite being = infinite punishment”. God is also characterised as all good. To enact infinite punishment is contradictory to that. He is also omnipotent, meaning that by nature, he has to eliminate that. Emphasis on the “has to”, as its a part of his nature.

Every punishment is also always proportional to its crime. God cannot be just yet punish me eternally for finite actions. If disbeleif is followed by punishment, thats not a moral failure, thats literally god just being egotistical.

Whatever state you die in - you will be doing it for eternity - Its just a reflection of their soul for eternity - either in Heaven or Hell.

??

By using your brain- Where do you think reality came from? Nothing?

This is how I argued with a girl born in an athiest family when I was literally in 5th grade…

We dont know where we come from, thats called the god of the gap’s fallacy.

If I asked you what comprises god? Or, how did god come to be? Who created him? You would come to me saying something along the lines of “well, there has to be an independent being, otherwise its an infinite regress”

What makes you stand in ground greater than mine when we both beleive in an independent thing of which began this universe of which we dont know of? You have faith in something, which is no different than believing the big bang.

Cope
People still disbelieved in Jesus even after seeing miracles in front of their eyes - they even tried to kill him
So no - Miracle ≠ doesnt mean you will believe.

Misunderstood my argument completely. A select people had something tangible to use inorder to proclaim belief. We do not. The people who killed him, the jews, also had something tangible through moses. Also does it not cross your mind that its retarded how god just places two religions contradictory of another and calls it a day? Tells you to pick one and it better be the right one or you go to hell?

What makes the Jews any worse for killing Jesus when god gave them moses? How do they decide which one is right when the beleif system is in complete contradiction? Why does god do this? Lets suppose you knew all possible outcomes of sending revelation. You would know what would work and what wouldnt. God here picked the worst fucking thing imaginable. His fault.

People still disbelieved after that - they just said its an 'illusion'.
People know that alcohol causes Cancer - do they care? No, they continue drinking then complain when cancer comes.
Knowing ≠ acting accordingly.
Also, Satan knows but is still a disbeliever.

Are you a muslim or not? The “illusion” comes from the muslim doctrine, where god swapped out jesus with a stunt double.

People know alcohol is harmful because we observe tangible evidence that says such. We dont know god exists because there is nothing tangible to base that on.

Satan is also not a disbeliever. Under what standard is he one? He cannot say god doesnt exist as he knows god. Funny how god gives satan evidence for his existence yet not us…

It is - you just have to be sincere when clear truths come to you.

What does it mean to be 'convinced'?
If you're not convinced then nothing will happen right?
Is Hell real? No?
Then you have nothing to be worried about

I, just like everyone with a brain, have a set of criteria to assess when something is “convincing”. The mitochondria being the powerhouse of a cell can be tested and observed. Therefore, I believe that the mitochondria is the powerhouse of a cell. God can not be tested not observed. He choses not to, therefore, I cannot believe that god exists.

Why?
How is it sentencing you right away when you have an entire life to make a decisions?

Because god knew of my destiny before creating me. Before I was conceived, I was nothing. A state of nonexistence. He created me, knowing more about me than myself, and the same with all other people. There will be people who will convert “repent, be sincere and humiliate themselves” and go to heaven, of which god knew. But there will be people going to hell, which god knew. By creating us, he already sentenced us, which we wont know until we pass.

False comparison - A human has choice - a robot just does what it is programmed.
You making a robot ≠ God making a human

Nothing about programming wtf are you talking about. Are you that thick skulled? The point is, creating someone, knowing what they would do makes it your fault for them doing it. If I said “if I baked a cake knowing it would explode, is it my fault for it exploding” would that be any better?

The outcomes of everyone is entirely avoidable by god himself, he has total control over his creation, we have no control over being created. Eternal punishment is therefore a consequence of gods creative choice, not mine nor any human freedom.

 

[JasGews69x]

ven then, heaven being infinitely joyous does not justify the existence of hell. A select people getting an eternally blissful afterlife does not justify another select getting eternally tortured.

Why?

Trvke. Why would he create someone of whom was nothing, to put them under strict rules followed by punishments?

His creation His choice
Strict for weaklings
Omg crime has punishment?

Wrong. Both the religions listed above have requirements that go beyond just “sincerity and humility”. Even that concept is absurd, sincere to whom and humiliate myself to whom? There is nothing tangible to be sincere to nor humiliate myself towards. Why does god require that as a prerequisite for achieving bliss in the hereafter?

Sincere and humble towards God.
You're assuming something needs to be tangible to be sincere or humble. You dont lol
First, sincerity is not physical - its an abstract concept. You can be 'sincere' toward things that have no tangible form at all such as truth, justice, love, faith, principles, goals, promises. None of these are tangible, yet people act on them every day, often at real cost to themselves.

Finally, language disproves this. We are sincere in apologies,beliefs etc, all of which exist in thought and expression rather than 'tangible' form. If tangibility was needed, sincerity would be impossible in speech or thought which is absurd.


Why would God need to give anyone Paradise to anyone?
He doesnt owe anyone Paradise - its seems like you think you are entitled to Eternal Paradise just for existing
Its Gods mercy, a gift not because of yourself

If I asked you whether a hindu, who worshipped idols would go to heaven, even being that he was of good character, humble, charitable, sincere in all deeds, without faith in god he is still bound to hell. What are you talking about? If all it took was sincerity and humility, then the doctrinal belief is irrelevant, but it isnt… you can not claim both.

How can he be good when he worships idols?
The idols he worshipped can save him
He wasnt sincere lol
You look at an idol and think it made you? You never thought about it your entire life?

Should I even keep reading? If he doesnt need my attention, why is that a prerequisite to not burn for eternity? When the Quran commentates about hell, its gives most vile description. Hitler himself would not have thought of doing this to the most stereotypical jew if he had the power to do so.

Examples (islamically):
Burning then regeneration of burnt parts so that you can go into an infinite cycle of agony

Aww gonna cry? Jfl at these emotional arguments
It seems like your ego is hurting because you're going to be held accountable for your actions...
Because rejecting God is evil and evil goes to Hell

before creating people, as the all knowing omnipotent being, he knew who would follow the rules and who wouldnt. How come they are not equal?

Not equal in what?
They arent equal because their character is not equal
I dont really get this question

Its crazy to me how stupid someone has to be to assert this. “Infinite being = infinite punishment”. God is also characterised as all good. To enact infinite punishment is contradictory to that. He is also omnipotent, meaning that by nature, he has to eliminate that. Emphasis on the “has to”, as its a part of his nature.

He is not only All-Good, He is also Perfecly Just and severe in punishment.
An All-Good being punishing evil for eternity - How Perfect

Every punishment is also always proportional to its crime. God cannot be just yet punish me eternally for finite actions. If disbeleif is followed by punishment, thats not a moral failure, thats literally god just being egotistical.

I already told you -
If you die as a disbeliever - you would be a disbeliever for eternity - even if every sign and miracle came to you
The quran also mentions that if disbelievers came out of hell to come back to Earth - they would go back to evil for eternity.

'But no! ˹They only say this˺ because the truth they used to hide will become all too clear to them. Even if they were to be sent back, they would certainly revert to what they were forbidden. Indeed they are liars!' 6:28

Also, you have to pay back everything that was given to you for free.
How much would you pay for one second of life? Infinity right?
That would include:
-Every heart beat
-Every breath of air
-Every bone in your body
-Every mL of blood
-Your eyesight
-Every blood vessel
-Every morsel of food
-Every drop of water you drink
-Your body working in harmony in the first place
-The Suns energy

I can go on and on
Humans are in infinite debt - the longer you live the more you are in debt.
Therefore infinite punishment.

We dont know where we come from, thats called the god of the gap’s fallacy.

No its not - its a logical inference. How dare I?

f I asked you what comprises god? Or, how did god come to be? Who created him? You would come to me saying something along the lines of “well, there has to be an independent being, otherwise its an infinite regress”

What makes you stand in ground greater than mine when we both beleive in an independent thing of which began this universe of which we dont know of? You have faith in something, which is no different than believing the big bang.

Well we can explore the possibilities -
You believe in something that started the Universe that is independent - Lol that is God
Idk what you're suggesting.
Saying we dont know is just willful ignorance at this point.

Misunderstood my argument completely. A select people had something tangible to use inorder to proclaim belief. We do not.

And there were still disbelievers which means that this 'tangible' evidence is not what makes someone believe lol.
We do have plenty of evidence:
-prophecies that are time bound,person bound and location bound
-knowledge that couldnt be known at the time
-the structure of the of the Quran
-etc
If you have all of this at once -
You are gonna have to give an account for it or you are ignoring it on purpose

What makes the Jews any worse for killing Jesus when god gave them moses? How do they decide which one is right when the beleif system is in complete contradiction? Why does god do this? Lets suppose you knew all possible outcomes of sending revelation. You would know what would work and what wouldnt. God here picked the worst fucking thing imaginable. His fault.

Huh - they were given miracles like the sea being split,food multiplication,raising from the dead etc to know if they were true.

God gave Moses a law - they had prophecies of the Messiah coming but rejected him because he threatened their power and such
God gave Jesus a law - It was fulfilling the law - i dont get you
His fault? Womp Womp - He sieves out the fakes from the true believers

Are you a muslim or not? The “illusion” comes from the muslim doctrine, where god swapped out jesus with a stunt double.

I was talking about the moon splitting....
So emotional you cant even read what i said properly.

People know alcohol is harmful because we observe tangible evidence that says such. We dont know god exists because there is nothing tangible to base that on.

Do people care that alcohol is harmful? Do they continue drinking?
Just because you have tangible evidence doesnt mean people will act accordingly.
Your assumption of 'needing tangible ' also needs tangible evidence
You're using intangible tools(speech which is philosophy) to state everything need tangible evidence.
You already cooked yourself and dont even realise it .

Satan is also not a disbeliever. Under what standard is he one? He cannot say god doesnt exist as he knows god. Funny how god gives satan evidence for his existence yet not us…

Disbeliever as in he rejects God even though he knows He exists, not an atheist
Which is what a 'Kafir' is - somebody who consciously rejects or hides the truth within himself.

I, just like everyone with a brain, have a set of criteria to assess when something is “convincing”. The mitochondria being the powerhouse of a cell can be tested and observed. Therefore, I believe that the mitochondria is the powerhouse of a cell. God can not be tested not observed. He choses not to, therefore, I cannot believe that god exists.

Oh so a Scientism/soyience worshipper


Can you test and observe:
-The scientific method
-Math (which science is based on)
-Logic (Which science is based on)
-Morality (that you keep crying about)
-The past
-The statements you are making

No - you cant since youre a walking contradiction

Because god knew of my destiny before creating me. Before I was conceived, I was nothing. A state of nonexistence. He created me, knowing more about me than myself, and the same with all other people. There will be people who will convert “repent, be sincere and humiliate themselves” and go to heaven, of which god knew. But there will be people going to hell, which god knew. By creating us, he already sentenced us, which we wont know until we pass.

He knew?
i know He knew
But you dont - so whats the problem

The outcomes of everyone is entirely avoidable by god himself, he has total control over his creation, we have no control over being created. Eternal punishment is therefore a consequence of gods creative choice, not mine nor any human freedom.

OMG - my actions have consequences

It seems like you're emotional over Hell like most kafirs and have temper tantrum over it
If you dont believe in Hell then why are you worried about it?
Just go and enjoy your accidental , coincidental existence then

 

[alwazzab]

Why?

I dont have to reply past this as this is where we differ. You cannot comprehend what I am saying. “Eternal torture is justified”… we cannot be the same species.

His creation His choice
Strict for weaklings

He then had a choice to not create evil. Making evil makes him evil. It was his choice to do so, and so therefore I chose not to worship evil itself.

Omg crime has punishment?

there is no justification for a finite crime carrying a infinite punishment

Sincere and humble towards God.
You're assuming something needs to be tangible to be sincere or humble. You dont lol
First, sincerity is not physical - its an abstract concept. You can be 'sincere' toward things that have no tangible form at all such as truth, justice, love, faith, principles, goals, promises. None of these are tangible, yet people act on them every day, often at real cost to themselves.

Finally, language disproves this. We are sincere in apologies,beliefs etc, all of which exist in thought and expression rather than 'tangible' form. If tangibility was needed, sincerity would be impossible in speech or thought which is absurd.

why are we arguing semantics? You create an image in your head, thats what you are sincere and in humiliation to. Its an idea, you can be sincere towards a belief in an idea, but that follows you believe that doctrinal belief… you can not prove the doctinal belief, you have faith it exists, thats it. There is not more to it.

Why would God need to give anyone Paradise to anyone?
He doesnt owe anyone Paradise - its seems like you think you are entitled to Eternal Paradise just for existing
Its Gods mercy, a gift not because of yourself

Tell me what distinguishes paradise from the state of nonexistence, as you were before being conceived, without the risk for eternal damnation. Any smart man would wish not to be born if god told them the risk to reward. Its not “gods mercy” its gods ego.

How can he be good when he worships idols?
The idols he worshipped can save him
He wasnt sincere lol
You look at an idol and think it made you? You never thought about it your entire life?

? Youre fucking retarded i cant bro
You claimed all it took was sincerity and humiliation. You are lying. Allah would accept epstein + hitler + stalin + ghenghis khan + ben gvir embodied into one person into heaven if he died upon the shahada. You know this. Worshiping and idol could be as sincere as you would be with a false image of god in both your head. That has nothing to do with it.

Aww gonna cry? Jfl at these emotional arguments
It seems like your ego is hurting because you're going to be held accountable for your actions...
Because rejecting God is evil and evil goes to Hell

Hell and good are opposites and believing god creates people to go there is an insult to a perfect omnipotent all good being. You sound like a toddler. Accountability for a finite crime does not look like an indefinite torturous punishment.

Not equal in what?
They arent equal because their character is not equal
I dont really get this question

God knew their fate before creating them. He knew their environment, temptations, surroundings, psychology, etc. If god is true, a disbeliever and a believer are indistinguishable except god decided to create someone to burn eternally and another to enter eternal bliss. Again, your religion is not about character, its about the doctrinal belief. You fail to acknowledge this.

He is not only All-Good, He is also Perfecly Just and severe in punishment.
An All-Good being punishing evil for eternity - How Perfect

Again, he is not punishing evil, he is punishing the non convinced of a certain doctrinal belief system. Finite evil does not justify eternal punishment. That contradicts gods “just” nature.

Can you explain to me how god is not egotistical? You said previously that all I am is meat and bones, god does not require my worship. Please explain to me why its a prerequisite to not be tortured in flames.

I already told you -
If you die as a disbeliever - you would be a disbeliever for eternity - even if every sign and miracle came to you
The quran also mentions that if disbelievers came out of hell to come back to Earth - they would go back to evil for eternity.

God choses not to bring believers as he does not provide sufficient evidence of his existence. In no way does the 1500 year old book have any relevance to today. Allah got the embryonic development stages wrong.

'But no! ˹They only say this˺ because the truth they used to hide will become all too clear to them. Even if they were to be sent back, they would certainly revert to what they were forbidden. Indeed they are liars!' 6:28

So you are muslim. Cool. If my claim is that god does not exist, why do you think ill concede that a word in the Quran is from god?
Not to mention, even if I did concede that god wrote this so therefore if this played out, it would be true, god designed that nature in mankind. What is the point of an imperfect creation if you wish them to be perfect? “God doesn't want perfection”, he clearly fucking does.

Also, you have to pay back everything that was given to you for free.
How much would you pay for one second of life? Infinity right?
That would include:
-Every heart beat
-Every breath of air
-Every bone in your body
-Every mL of blood
-Your eyesight
-Every blood vessel
-Every morsel of food
-Every drop of water you drink
-Your body working in harmony in the first place
-The Suns energy

Why are you arguing as though I have conceded that god does exist?

I can go on and on
Humans are in infinite debt - the longer you live the more you are in debt.
Therefore infinite punishment.

Debt to who? Again, you are playing god of the gaps. Just because why dont know how those things came to be, doesnt mean you cant attribute them to god directly. This is stupid.

No its not - its a logical inference. How dare I?

Well we can explore the possibilities -
You believe in something that started the Universe that is independent - Lol that is God
Idk what you're suggesting.
Saying we dont know is just willful ignorance at this point.

the independent thing does not have to be god. I know as much as you do for what started this universe, and that is fuck all. We do not know. Stop playing god of the gaps.

And there were still disbelievers which means that this 'tangible' evidence is not what makes someone believe lol.
We do have plenty of evidence:
-prophecies that are time bound,person bound and location bound
-knowledge that couldnt be known at the time
-the structure of the of the Quran
-etc
If you have all of this at once -
You are gonna have to give an account for it or you are ignoring it on purpose

I was born into a muslim household. All the miracles are so retarded the fucking sheikhs advise against using them as the Quran is not a science book. You all look schizophrenic trying to infer a proven miracle of the Quran. Majority of miracles were known too from other civilizations before Mohammads existence. “Allah says the earth is shaped like an egg! Today we know the egg is not a sphere! How come an illiterate man knew about this!!!”. Really nigga…

The structure of the Quran as if there wernt multiple versions before uthman burnt them or surah l ahzab being 73 verses today when it was 200 verses previously before being lost (as reported by Aisha)

Huh - they were given miracles like the sea being split,food multiplication,raising from the dead etc to know if they were true.

The sea being divided by salt and fresh was common knowledge. Just because Mohammad didnt fucking grab a boat and check it out doesnt mean he found secret knowledge.

God gave Moses a law - they had prophecies of the Messiah coming but rejected him because he threatened their power and such
God gave Jesus a law - It was fulfilling the law - i dont get you
His fault? Womp Womp - He sieves out the fakes from the true believers

And how did that work? Now we have two religions, apparently your god had to do a last minute maneuver and swap jesus’ body with a copy. This is foolish of any being with “all knowing intellect”.

I was talking about the moon splitting....
So emotional you cant even read what i said properly.

The moon didnt fucking split

Do people care that alcohol is harmful? Do they continue drinking?
Just because you have tangible evidence doesnt mean people will act accordingly.
Your assumption of 'needing tangible ' also needs tangible evidence
You're using intangible tools(speech which is philosophy) to state everything need tangible evidence.
You already cooked yourself and dont even realise it .

There is no connection between drinking and the belief in god. However, because we know alcohol causes impairment, we designed DUI laws. God does not provide anything. There is no comparison to be made.

Knowing = belief

Do you know drinking causes impairment

Do you know god exists

Which is what a 'Kafir' is - somebody who consciously rejects or hides the truth within himself.

“someone who rejects truth” are we serious? As though a book is sufficient to claim to be the truth. Such a retarded point.

There is no such thing as truth except what we know for certain. We do not know for certain god exists. He hasnt done anything to show that.

Oh so a Scientism/soyience worshipper


Can you test and observe:
-The scientific method
-Math (which science is based on)
-Logic (Which science is based on)
-Morality (that you keep crying about)
-The past
-The statements you are making

No - you cant since youre a walking contradiction

You have the brain capacity of a fire extinguisher. We can test the scientific method… by using the scientific method. If you put a wooden spoon in a plugged in toaster, nothing happens, you put a metal spoon in a toaster, I die. You hypothesize, test, confirm or deny. We can test math… are you serious??? We can test logic through line of reasoning. Morality can not be tested as its subjective. The past is not a measurable thing, what the fuck could you possibly mean by “the past”. We can not test the statements im making because we are arguing about a nonexistent schizophrenic being you have in your head.

OMG - my actions have consequences

No infinite punishment for a finite crime is moral

It seems like you're emotional over Hell like most kafirs and have temper tantrum over it
If you dont believe in Hell then why are you worried about it?
Just go and enjoy your accidental , coincidental existence then

Im just saying your belief system is retarded and if you cant have constructive dialogue then that shows more about you than me. What makes you believe that going to a place with rivers of non alcoholic wine, milk and honey or to a place of eternal fire is more probable than dying and reentering a state of nothingness as you were before you were conceived?

Our ancestors millennia ago used religion to cope with life after death. We know this because we have norse mythology and other religions way before the abrahamic faiths that did this very thing.

 

[BigNosedFreak]

religions were all man made useless cope mechanisms, when they die they won’t realize it was fake cause there is nothing after death religion is and will always remain cope.

 

[alwazzab]

TRVKE

 

[Rule33]

Nigger wants me to discuss hinduism and buddhism 4.6 billion people are christians or muslims, the rest are indeed irrelevant. Should we also discuss African tribal religions??? What about Alawites? Druze? Zoroastrianism???

>"4.6 billion people are christians or muslims"
Something does not need to be popular to be true
>"Should we also discuss African tribal religions??? What about Alawites? Druze? Zoroastrianism???"
Why does a religion need to be monotheistic to be true?
Also, fyi the emojies don't make you look tough