Retarded Christian mother nearly ends her and her kids life, justifies it by using gods will

[TheLightOfMyLife]

Why are they like this?

 

[kisuke]

Why are they like this?

religion shuts off some people's brains it's sad

 

[MongolTurk]

her perspective contradicts free will

I think I recently read a verse that said attributing to God what isn't his is blasphemous or something like that.

 

[MongolTurk]

religion shuts off some people's brains it's sad

doesn't have to be the case, when I was an athiest, by brain was more shut off than it is now as a christian.

believing in the blackpill and being an athiest just turns you into an apathetic & pessimistic bastard given enough time.

 

[TheLightOfMyLife]

her perspective contradicts free will

I think I recently read a verse that said attributing to God what isn't his is blasphemous or something like that.

I’m still not sure how Christians justify the idea of free will ngl and I’ve never heard anything convincing in favor of it.

 

[kisuke]

believing in the blackpill and being an athiest just turns you into an apathetic & pessimistic bastard given enough time.

realistic ≠ pessimistic . accepting that the world is unfair doesn't make you pessimistic imo

 

[Meteor21]

Mf you were arguing with me the other day when I said religion is brainwashing nonsense. You people are contrarians just for the sake of it

 

[TheLightOfMyLife]

Mf you were arguing with me the other day when I said religion is brainwashing nonsense. You people are contrarians just for the sake of it

link me where i did that because I fucking hate religion

 

[MongolTurk]

accepting that the world is unfair doesn't make you pessimistic imo

You're right, but eventually that will lead you to being pessimistic about your own life and circumstances, because you too will find yourself in the "unfair" position if you aren't already in it, and since you've already accepted that "the world is unfair" you will have also accepted your unfortunate fate.

 

[Meteor21]

Mf you were arguing with me the other day when I said religion is brainwashing nonsense. You people are contrarians just for the sake of it

Why do you go to hell if you don't acknowledge Jesus is the GOAT?

And what's with this false dichotomy of you choose Jesus or you follow the devil? Can't I just have autonomy? If God is omnipotent and infinitely more powerful than the devil than what is with this fighting against evil shit? Can God not prevent you from going to hell? I'd make much more sense...

looksmax.org

 

[TheLightOfMyLife]

Why do you go to hell if you don't acknowledge Jesus is the GOAT?

And what's with this false dichotomy of you choose Jesus or you follow the devil? Can't I just have autonomy? If God is omnipotent and infinitely more powerful than the devil than what is with this fighting against evil shit? Can God not prevent you from going to hell? I'd make much more sense...

looksmax.org

Ohhh
I was making a joke in that thread dude. I thought that was pretty clear by how I framed it as pretty retarded.

 

[MongolTurk]

I’m still not sure how Christians justify the idea of free will ngl and I’ve never heard anything convincing in favor of it.

what do you mean justify? We believe God gave it to us because our faith is only valuable and genuine if we choose to have it even though we have the free will not to.

 

[Meteor21]

Ohhh
I was making a joke in that thread dude. I thought that was pretty clear by how I framed it as pretty retarded.

I kinda thought but you kept doubling down

 

[kisuke]

you will have also accepted your unfortunate fate.

personally i don't think that's a bad thing , acceptance is better than coping in my opinion , because deep down we all know when we are lying to ourselves and it doesn't solve anything

 

[MongolTurk]

personally i don't think that's a bad thing , acceptance is better than coping in my opinion , because deep down we all know when we are lying to ourselves and it doesn't solve anything

I personally have genuine faith in an afterlife and in God, but to each their own

 

[TheLightOfMyLife]

what do you mean justify? We believe God gave it to us because our faith is only valuable and genuine if we choose to have it even though we have the free will not to.

Yeah, but doesn’t your god also know everything about how everything will turn out always and forever? How does that work with free will?
If you choice exists as something crystallized, is it not the only choice you ever could have made? I see christians just say “dude even though god knew you would make the choice, you still had a choice!!” but I don’t really see how that makes sense, since that “choice” was always going to happen and therefore wasn’t much of a choice, because you were never going to make any other choice. That choice was set in stone the moment the initial conditions of the universe were set

 

[MongolTurk]

Yeah, but doesn’t your god also know everything about how everything will turn out always and forever? How does that work with free will?
If you choice exists as something crystallized, is it not the only choice you ever could have made? I see christians just say “dude even though god knew you would make the choice, you still had a choice!!” but I don’t really see how that makes sense, since that “choice” was always going to happen and therefore wasn’t much of a choice, because you were never going to make any other choice. That choice was set in stone the moment the initial conditions of the universe were set

God knows what choice we will make, but we still make the choice. Why would he intervene? that would contradict free will

The choice wasn't destined to happen so to speak, you could've chosen to do something else, but you didn't.

God's perception doesn't operate in the bounds of time so to say that the choice was set in stone the moment the universe was set just because God knew what you're choices would be at that time, isn't accurate imo.

 

[Gonthar]

her perspective contradicts free will

I think I recently read a verse that said attributing to God what isn't his is blasphemous or something like that.

In school we learned in religion class that absolutely everything happens because of God's will, even a car running for example: when you start the car, God commands the car's battery to flow an electrical current and cause a spark in the engine, he then orders gasoline to flow and ignite in the cylinders, he orders then the pistons to move, the wheels to rotate and the car to start running, etc. - all this happens only because God wants it!

There's even a famous religious story about a Christian man who was in the army back when Romania was still communist and religion was frowned upon. Because of his faith, he was bullied around by his sergeant and one day he was ordered to move a car from the courtyard from one place to another, while all the other soldiers watched. He said he doesn't know how to drive a car, but the sergeant told him to just pray to God if he really believes in him, and he would have no problem then. The guy then said a little prayer, entered the car and moved it to the other place, while everyone was shocked and showed him that the car had no engine. The guy explained that only thing you need is faith and nothing is impossible then, even driving a car with no engine. Then everyone kneeled and praised God...

 

[TheLightOfMyLife]

God knows what choice we will make, but we still make the choice. Why would he intervene? that would contradict free will

The choice wasn't destined to happen so to speak, you could've chosen to do something else, but you didn't.

God's perception doesn't operate in the bounds of time so to say that the choice was set in stone the moment the universe was set just because God knew what you're choices would be at that time, isn't accurate imo.

I'm not exactly following how that works.
How can it be known what choice I will make, yet still be a choice that I truly made? How could I make any other choice if that is the case?
Even if god is not subject to the bounds of time, I am. So that when the universe was created, god did know everything that would happen, and everything within the world that is subjected to time would have been known to follow from that beginning point in time. Given these conditions, at any given state in time, the state of another time would have been known and everything in between would have been the only possibly path that could have been taken, for if a different path were taken, that would not have been what god knew in this version of the universe.

 

[MongolTurk]

In school we learned in religion class that absolutely everything happens because of God's will, even a car running for example: when you start the car, God commands the car's battery to flow an electrical current and cause a spark in the engine, he then orders gasoline to flow and ignite in the cylinders, he orders then the pistons to move, the wheels to rotate and the car to start running, etc. - all this happens only because God wants it!

There's even a famous religious story about a Christian man who was in the army back when Romania was still communist and religion was frowned upon. Because of his faith, he was bullied around by his sergeant and one day he was ordered to move a car from the courtyard from one place to another, while all the other soldiers watched. He said he doesn't know how to drive a car, but the sergeant told him to just pray to God if he really believes in him, and he would have no problem then. The guy then said a little prayer, entered the car and moved it to the other place, while everyone was shocked and showed him that the car had no engine. The guy explained that only thing you need is faith and nothing is impossible then, even driving a car with no engine. Then everyone kneeled and praised God...

You were taught wrong, God did not want Adam & Eve to disobey him, he didn't want sodom and gomorra to be in the state they were, and Christ didn't want to be crucified, it was necessitated because of the sins that man chose to commit. This is my opinion anyway

Some bad things may be God's will, but not all of them(also my grandfather told me a similar story from when he was in the soviet union about a muslim kavkaz who did the exact same thing but with a tank(my family is of muslim kavkaz origin)) I guess embellished religious stories are universal

 

[MongolTurk]

I'm not exactly following how that works.
How can it be known what choice I will make, yet still be a choice that I truly made? How could I make any other choice if that is the case?
Even if god is not subject to the bounds of time, I am. So that when the universe was created, god did know everything that would happen, and everything within the world that is subjected to time would have been known to follow from that beginning point in time. Given these conditions, at any given state in time, the state of another time would have been known and everything in between would have been the only possibly path that could have been taken, for if a different path were taken, that would not have been what god knew in this version of the universe.

Would you have this same confusion if somebody were capable of reading your mind and could therefore predict what you were going to say because you thought of what you were going to say before you said it? Would you then argue that it was not possible for you to have, on your own accord, chose what you were going to say merely because somebody else could read your mind and predicted what you were going to say. Whether or not this individual could read your mind or not, you would have thought to say the same thing; thus, the ability of this individual to read your mind did not impact what you said but they were still able to predict it. This is a very abstract conversation so I apologize if it's very cumbersome.

 

[Gonthar]

Some bad things may be God's will, but not all of them(also my grandfather told me a similar story from when he was in the soviet union about a muslim kavkaz who did the exact same thing but with a tank(my family is of muslim kavkaz origin)) I guess embellished religious stories are universal

Hmmm...I've seen on some Muslim sites various similar stories and parables about faith, kindness, love, etc. that I've read before and were actually initially Christian, Buddhist, etc., they seem to plagiarize a lot...

 

[MongolTurk]

Hmmm...I've seen on some Muslim sites various similar stories and parables about faith, kindness, love, etc. that I've read before and were actually initially Christian, Buddhist, etc., they seem to plagiarize a lot...

plagiarizing is the muslim signature move

 

[TheLightOfMyLife]

Would you have this same confusion if somebody were capable of reading your mind and could therefore predict what you were going to say because you thought of what you were going to say before you said it? Would you then argue that it was not possible for you to have, on your own accord, chose what you were going to say merely because somebody else could read your mind and predicted what you were going to say. Whether or not this individual could read your mind or not, you would have thought to say the same thing; thus, the ability of this individual to read your mind did not impact what you said but they were still able to predict it. This is a very abstract conversation so I apologize if it's very cumbersome.

Predicting is not the same as knowing. I can predict the weather and be correct most of the timet, but I never know. I can build a model and say that tomorrow we will have a high chance of sunshine, and then it can end up raining frogs(of course, weather is usually thought of as a chaotic system, which should be deterministic and it can be imagined that if only one were able to keep track of all the variables it could be known, but this is obviously not something that can be proven at present).

So is it that god is something of a statistician and can reliably predict what we will do to a high degree of accuracy and precision based on what is known, but still does not known what state the system will be in at any given moment? Just that certain realities are more probable than others?

On the other hand, if someone knows exactly what I will say when I will say it, then yes, I would say that I do not have any choice in what I say, because they know what will happen. There will be no surprise, it will be like reading a book in which everything is written clearly on the pages and nothing changes.

 

[MongolTurk]

On the other hand, if someone knows exactly what I will say when I will say it, then yes, I would say that I do not have any choice in what I say, because they know what will happen. There will be no surprise, it will be like reading a book in which everything is written clearly on the pages and nothing changes.

I don't understand why you perceive free will to be contingent on surprise/privacy. It's not like reading a book, because the words on a book have already been written, it's like opening a book that writes itself but you know what it will write because you know the book so intimately and you created it and yada yada.

My main point is, you knowing or not knowing what the book will write next has no impact on what the book will write. God's knowing of your decisions doesn't mean he made the decision, and if he didn't make the decision, then something clearly had to(i.e you).