Revenge and The rape of berlin [not high effort but also not a low effort.] [Somewhere in the middle effort thread]

[ewri]

I was on Twitter and the discussion was about the rape of Berlin, and the common sentiment was : "omg those slavic ORCS were raping german women , n-no we totally didn't do the same thing to them first... and if we did t-then it was based!"


If you were a russian kid, maybe like 16 when the Barbarossa invasion first started, and like your village got burned down by Germans, or your dad got killed by them, or whatever (specifics don't matter, you were wronged by them, they hurt you in some way)
Then, of course, you would rape their fucking women when you got to Berlin, in your mind, they would 100% deserve it for what "they" did to you. Of course, we can all act like revenge is above us "modern" people, but eh.
----->=
Not that I give a fuck about nazis or the soviets (im not Russian or German), but it's still an interesting topic
Also, im not saying the rapes were good, don't twist my words, and im also not saying that the rapes, pillagings killing of civilians were only because of revenge.

 

[ewri]

dnr nigger

 

[pentamogged9000]

 

[ewri]

View attachment 4094620

faggot

 

[ewri]

im kind of a retarted faggot for posting this to org nigger

 

[Imaloser7754]

"I would like to begin with a quote by Joseph Stalin.

"Officers and men of the Red Army! We are entering the country of the enemy. The remaining population in the liberated areas, regardless of whether they’re German, Czech, or Polish, should not be subjected to violence. The perpetrators will be punished according to the laws of war. In the liberated territories, sexual relations with females are not allowed. Perpetrators of violence and rape will be shot.” - J.V. Stalin, Order of the Day, January 19, 1945.

That is a direct quote from Stalin which you can easily find. But of course it is even easier to find western propaganda.

Another quote from the book Browder & Kerensky, 1961.

However, four months later, on July 12th of 1917, the death penalty was restored for all military crimes, murder, rape, and offences against the state committed during war time (Browder & Kerensky, 1961). This measure was adopted by the Provisional government as a result of the deteriorating political and economic situation in Russia due to its unsuccessful participation in WWI and associated civil disturbances

After the war Soviet officers began mass executing thousands of their own soldiers. The reason? War rape. Almost all Russian WW2 historians support this. One such example is Oleg Rzheshevky.

According to Oleg Rzheshevsky, a President of the Russian Association of World War II Historians, 4,148 Red Army officers and many soldiers were convicted of atrocities and punished with capital punishment, while only 69 U.S. soldiers were executed.

And

Makhmut Gareev states that he had not even heard about sexual violence. He says that "instances of cruelty, including sexual, occurred", and that they "simply could not be absent after what the Nazis did" in the USSR, but also states that "such cases were strongly suppressed and punished," and that "they did not become widespread." He notes that the Soviet military leadership signed an executive order on 19 January 1945 that demanded the prevention of cruel treatment of the local population.

Now this article is perfect for what you are looking for. (Google translate works better than expected.) And will be the primary source I will be quoting. (Although I will also be posting the name of books I am quoting in brackets.) That is also the source for the Oleg Rzheshevsky comment.

The myth that Stalin and other high ranking officials at the time ordered the mass rape of civilians of any nation is not only entirely wrong but also had 2 primary origins and one secondary. The two primary origins were Anthony Bivor and goebbels. Goebbels began the myth that the red army was so ruthless and ravenous that they would rape any woman aged 10-70.

"In all villages and cities, all German women aged 10 to 70 were subjected to countless rapes. the behavior of a Soviet soldier can be seen as an explicit system."

This was where the rape of millions myth began. His evidence for the rapes themselves began with him using one unidentified rape as a way to mobilize civilians to rise against the, and I quote, "Russian Mongol savages." Sadly I no longer have a source for that last part. (as the link I used to use no longer works) Also notice the statement of "The behavior of the Soviet soldiers can be seen as an explicit system." Direct propaganda.

Anthony took this a step further.

However, Bivor surpassed Goebbels. Without any documentary evidence or at least non-anonymous testimony, he states: "According to the estimates of the two main Berlin hospitals, the number of raped Soviet soldiers ranges from 95 to 130 thousand people."One doctor concluded that only in Berlin some 100,000 women were raped ... Apparently, much more if you take into account the 1 million 400 thousand raped in East Prussia, Pomerania and Silesia. It seems that about two million German women were raped."

With no evidence he claimed two million people were raped. TWO MILLION... He is one of the primary source for all western historians... To give you an idea of their validity. He is basically the big black book of Communism but for the Red army.

Now the secondary source is the book and individual who started the myth that Stalin told his soldiers to start raping. The book and individual in question are, "Conversations with Stalin" by Milovan Djilas. The book was what first stated that Stalin and other officials ordered the rape of civilians. (The book itself being as factual as the black book)

Now to give you an idea of how trustworthy Milovan is, he hated and slandered Stalin any chance he got. He felt that khrushchev was a far smarter, cunning, intelligent, and capable leader. And also has a book praising Gorbachev to the point of claiming he was not only a great leader, but he did the right thing.

With all that in mind we can come to a few conclusions.

1. ⁠Stalin and the high ranking officials were not only against ANY form of harm against the civilians, but also ordered the execution of any soldiers who would commit such acts. I mean consider how big Stalin and the Soviet government were on women's rights? Do you honestly think they would allow or order the rape of women and children? No.
2. ⁠The numbers were not in the millions, or even hundred thousands, but we're definitely in the tens of thousands. Most likely less than a hundred thousand.
3. ⁠Almost all of the sources that western historians based their findings on cannot be trusted. And have histories of attempting to slander the red army and Soviet Union. Attempting to make them look like savages. I mean, just look at all the propaganda against the Red army. They supposedly mass raped everything that moved, fought without weapons, shot deserters, only fought because they would be shot, constantly committed war crimes and atrocities, were undisciplined, only won because of lend lease, (even though they only used about 10% of it) and won by just throwing soldiers at the enemy until they overwhelmed them.... Right all sounds believable. So no none of it is trustworthy. Also note how the Red army was supposedly ravenous savages while amerkian soldiers woo German woman with just chocolate. This is no accident, the wooing with chocolate was frequently less than consensual. (There is a large amount of evidence of mass rape by U$ soldiers)
4. ⁠The rapists got what they deserved and were shot by the thousands.