fvolkek
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Thought this forum might be a good place to discuss this author, considering the subject matter espoused in his works.
Having read his three major books, I'll give a brief "guide".
I think they can be good entry-level machiavellian framework without having grifter PUA scammer rhetoric. His books are pretty much this forum distilled into book form, but instead of focusing on looksmaxxing, it's just "power-maxxing". It's not ethically normative, it's metaethical. That is to say, it doesn't tell you what to do; it shows you how the world looks like -- to him. It’s basically a “here’s how it works, do with it what you will” book.
Much like the blackpill, Greene assumes egoism. He believes conduct is driven purely by self-interest; you're either played or a player.
It's not really that deep. It's also very light reading and entretaining due to the historical value it has.
Many people will say that this author is for plebs or whatever. Ignore them. No shame in reading this. Sometimes you need to read stuff like this. It won't impress art hoes but it's much more useful in praxis than reading marxian dialetics, lacan or whatever ethereal abstract shit like that.
Also, even if you know the rules, it has two further benefits:
1.You internalize the "mantras": Repetition embeds mindset. Even if you know the stuff, exposing yourself to it can make you integrate it further to your persona. Not that you'd necessarily want that, but is partially needed if you're in a hyper-competitive enviornment: corporate, politics, even hypergamic dating markets. If you counter-act this with some kind of virtue ethics you can attenuate the toxicity. Not that most of you will care anyway. If you want to follow through with my advice, I would strongly recommend The Rebelion of the Masses and Man and the People by Ortega y Gasset. Those books have you covered.
2. Good historical reading, unironically. I've learnt a lot, from the biggest femme fatales in history, socialites from Vienna, to random asian emperors, to succesful businessmen. Know this though: Most historical figures he provides as examples are people who are already insulated by their wealth, skills and influence. So you shouldn't read him, or Art of War or whatever book like that as business strategy. It incrementally adds to your life. This tendency can particularly be seen in The Art of Seduction.
48 Laws of Power
His most famous book. It's basically a manual of how power dynamics play out across history. Period. It's general and has no gimmicky metaphor like the other boosk I will mention. It's the most horizontal and less niche of his books, and to me, the best. Take it as a toolkit, not gospel, many laws contradict each other. Context is everything, don't apply them blindly.
Read this thread for a good BOTBworthy summary:
looksmax.org
The Art of Seduction
By far the most theatrical. Reads like a mix of history, soft-psych, and erotic powerplay. It’s less about pulling bitches and more about understanding how charm and emotional manipulation can work. Think about it as a list of archetypes. It talks about Cleopatra, Marilyn Monroe, some balding short Iranian ruler who had power... anyway, it's fun and insightful, but not blackpilled enough. Could have been better. Useful if you’re in performance-heavy fields (media, sales, politics), or if you want to better identify when you're being played. That said, it’s his weakest work in terms of grounded realism and applicability.
33 Strategies of War
48 Laws of Power but with a global war metaphor. Underrated. It talks about conflict navigation in all forms: social, organizational, interpersonal, whatever. It's like an agressive complement to the 48 Laws if that wasn't aggressive enough. It leans heavier on planning, discipline, detatchment, long term vision, etc. etc. It's the most actionable, to me, of his books. It's like if 48 laws of power was a straight shooter vietnam vet unc
There are others like Mastery, Closing, Laws of Human Nature, etc. but haven't read them. To be honest, I think reading the 48 Laws is more than enough. I'd read the others if you liked the historical parts of his books, that are honestly, quite good.
For most of you, who are young, I'd do what I told you. 48 Laws + coherent ethical framework (I like Ortega a lot, but you could choose the greeks, or whomever you prefer, as long as it works for you). Just don’t walk around applying Machiavellianism raw without any internal compass because you'll crash.
I wanted to also use this thread to discuss his work if you want, just what you think of him overall and other authors or media you might recommend that fall under this same subniche. As I said, most of it is filled with rich cooper types and good content is VERY hard to find. That's why these types of forums can be gold, potentially.
Same case can be made with any other "self help" stuff: Jordan Peterson, How to Win Friends, etc. They won't change your life unless you're severely socially impaired, but it's inoffensive at worse and pretty good at best.
Other quintessential authors for this type of reading:
- Machiavelli (the man himself)
- Max Stirner
- Nietzsche (selectively)
- Schopenhauer (idem)
- Carl Schmitt
- Baltasar Gracián
Summary:
-The books aren't evil; it’s descriptive, not prescriptive
-People who criticize Greene usually haven’t read him
-The historical examples are useful but sometimes inaccurate or cherry-picked
-His work appeals to insecure or manipulative people (AKA manosphere)
-The advice may work best if you already have power
-The books can be too long and bloated
-There’s value in reading it defensively to protect yourself
-It’s not self-help; it’s strategy, history, or philosophy
Having read his three major books, I'll give a brief "guide".
I think they can be good entry-level machiavellian framework without having grifter PUA scammer rhetoric. His books are pretty much this forum distilled into book form, but instead of focusing on looksmaxxing, it's just "power-maxxing". It's not ethically normative, it's metaethical. That is to say, it doesn't tell you what to do; it shows you how the world looks like -- to him. It’s basically a “here’s how it works, do with it what you will” book.
Much like the blackpill, Greene assumes egoism. He believes conduct is driven purely by self-interest; you're either played or a player.
It's not really that deep. It's also very light reading and entretaining due to the historical value it has.
Many people will say that this author is for plebs or whatever. Ignore them. No shame in reading this. Sometimes you need to read stuff like this. It won't impress art hoes but it's much more useful in praxis than reading marxian dialetics, lacan or whatever ethereal abstract shit like that.
Also, even if you know the rules, it has two further benefits:
1.You internalize the "mantras": Repetition embeds mindset. Even if you know the stuff, exposing yourself to it can make you integrate it further to your persona. Not that you'd necessarily want that, but is partially needed if you're in a hyper-competitive enviornment: corporate, politics, even hypergamic dating markets. If you counter-act this with some kind of virtue ethics you can attenuate the toxicity. Not that most of you will care anyway. If you want to follow through with my advice, I would strongly recommend The Rebelion of the Masses and Man and the People by Ortega y Gasset. Those books have you covered.
2. Good historical reading, unironically. I've learnt a lot, from the biggest femme fatales in history, socialites from Vienna, to random asian emperors, to succesful businessmen. Know this though: Most historical figures he provides as examples are people who are already insulated by their wealth, skills and influence. So you shouldn't read him, or Art of War or whatever book like that as business strategy. It incrementally adds to your life. This tendency can particularly be seen in The Art of Seduction.
48 Laws of Power
His most famous book. It's basically a manual of how power dynamics play out across history. Period. It's general and has no gimmicky metaphor like the other boosk I will mention. It's the most horizontal and less niche of his books, and to me, the best. Take it as a toolkit, not gospel, many laws contradict each other. Context is everything, don't apply them blindly.
Read this thread for a good BOTBworthy summary:
The 48 Laws of Power (shortened)
I finished reading the book a few days ago. I've heard normies say "omg its so deep" "I feel so bad for reading this omg!" but its really not that deep but the advice is genuinely useful tbh. Some of it will be water wet and others will be useful. I found a shortened down version from...
looksmax.org
The Art of Seduction
By far the most theatrical. Reads like a mix of history, soft-psych, and erotic powerplay. It’s less about pulling bitches and more about understanding how charm and emotional manipulation can work. Think about it as a list of archetypes. It talks about Cleopatra, Marilyn Monroe, some balding short Iranian ruler who had power... anyway, it's fun and insightful, but not blackpilled enough. Could have been better. Useful if you’re in performance-heavy fields (media, sales, politics), or if you want to better identify when you're being played. That said, it’s his weakest work in terms of grounded realism and applicability.
33 Strategies of War
48 Laws of Power but with a global war metaphor. Underrated. It talks about conflict navigation in all forms: social, organizational, interpersonal, whatever. It's like an agressive complement to the 48 Laws if that wasn't aggressive enough. It leans heavier on planning, discipline, detatchment, long term vision, etc. etc. It's the most actionable, to me, of his books. It's like if 48 laws of power was a straight shooter vietnam vet unc
There are others like Mastery, Closing, Laws of Human Nature, etc. but haven't read them. To be honest, I think reading the 48 Laws is more than enough. I'd read the others if you liked the historical parts of his books, that are honestly, quite good.
For most of you, who are young, I'd do what I told you. 48 Laws + coherent ethical framework (I like Ortega a lot, but you could choose the greeks, or whomever you prefer, as long as it works for you). Just don’t walk around applying Machiavellianism raw without any internal compass because you'll crash.
I wanted to also use this thread to discuss his work if you want, just what you think of him overall and other authors or media you might recommend that fall under this same subniche. As I said, most of it is filled with rich cooper types and good content is VERY hard to find. That's why these types of forums can be gold, potentially.
Same case can be made with any other "self help" stuff: Jordan Peterson, How to Win Friends, etc. They won't change your life unless you're severely socially impaired, but it's inoffensive at worse and pretty good at best.
Other quintessential authors for this type of reading:
- Machiavelli (the man himself)
- Max Stirner
- Nietzsche (selectively)
- Schopenhauer (idem)
- Carl Schmitt
- Baltasar Gracián
Summary:
-The books aren't evil; it’s descriptive, not prescriptive
-People who criticize Greene usually haven’t read him
-The historical examples are useful but sometimes inaccurate or cherry-picked
-His work appeals to insecure or manipulative people (AKA manosphere)
-The advice may work best if you already have power
-The books can be too long and bloated
-There’s value in reading it defensively to protect yourself
-It’s not self-help; it’s strategy, history, or philosophy
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