RU58841 VS Finasteride

[rateme932490]

Which one is better?
Anyone with experience of either?

 

[Germania]

Both
But Fin mogs

 

[rateme932490]

Both
But Fin mogs

How does fin mog when it can cause pfs?

 

[Germania]

How does fin mog when it can cause pfs?

DHT sucks, lower it

 

[rateme932490]

DHT sucks, lower it

Are you on fin?

 

[max_frisch]

How does fin mog when it can cause pfs?

and ru has no sideeffects?

the only reason why you hear more about side effects from finasteride is because finasteride is taken by millions everyday while ru is taking by a few ten thousands. and if you keep looking you will find enough reports of people who got gyno, irreversible heartproblems etc while being on ru

so you can choose between

an fda approved drugs which is proven to halt hairloss for majority of people for 10 years

a drug which no fda approval, no safety profile that gets mixed by gooks in chinese factories without any supervision



imho ru should be used in case yoi cant tolerate fin or additional to fin in case you still lose ground

 

[Anasurimbor]

in studies ru slightly better than fin for hair growth. fin is stronger vs dht though.

frontal area is more prone to testosterone while crown area is pure dht. For me ru was super effective in frontal ( went from nw2 to nw0) while crown just stopped balding and regrow only happed after i added dermaroller 1.5. If you balding hardcore then you probably gonna need both fin+ru. If its mild hairloss( nw2 in your late 20s) then just ru is more than nuff and its definetely better than fin.

in terms of side effects im yet to encounter anyone who had trouble with dick/gynecomastia on ru. 1% ussualy encounter some heart problems.

 

[max_frisch]

if you believe in pfs you better believe in ru destroying your heart and lungs; again if finasteride would be also taken in such small numbers as ru58841 you wouldnt have heard anything about pfs

„What are the side effects of RU58841?
Since RU58841 has not passed into phase two of drug development, there are literally no studies that have highlighted the side effects of this medication specifically.

This means that if there are any side effects, then they are actually unknown. For now, information about its side effects can only be derived online from the reviews of customers who have actually used the product.

Pharmacologically speaking, there are absolutely no pharmacologic products that are 100% free of side effects. Like with every medication, RU58841 also affects each individual differently.

It is hoped that future studies will document the side effects of using RU58841. But based on the physiologic processes it undergoes, we can hypothesize on some of its potential side effects.

For instance, you should be aware that RU58841 does not only block DHT but all other androgens including testosterone.

Do you know what this means?

In the event that even a drop of this medication lands in your serum, it will interfere with the physiologic activities of all your androgens leading to side effects such as:

• 
  chest pain
• 
  dizziness
• 
  fatigue
• 
  decreased libido
• 
  headache
• 
  erectile dysfunction
• 
  mood alteration
• 
  blurred vision

This is the reason why it is advisable that you use RU58841 with great caution. If possible, consult your doctor or healthcare provider before you use this product or when you notice symptoms after using it.“

RU58841 for Hair Loss – Underused Finasteride Alternative?

RU58841 is a non-steroidal antiandrogenic medication that was initially developed in the 1980s as a topical treatment remedy for...

hairverse.com

A low percentage of people have experienced heart pressure/pain and/or shortness of breath after using RU58841 after as little as one week of topical usage.

Although rare, if you experience heart discomfort, pressure, and/or pain, discontinue use immediately, as in rare cases it can cause heart failure (it's a similar drug to nilutamide).

Interstitial pneumonititis is a more common side effect of using DHT-blockers in the class of RU58841 and nilutamide. This is a serious lung condition, which can be triggered by certain medications (among other things). If left untreated, it can lead to permanent scarring of the lungs, such that you can no longer breath and can possibly die. However, in the vast majority of cases, the damage is fully reversed within 6 to 12 months of discontinuation of the drug. In severe cases, you'll need to take prednisolone along with discontinuing the drug.

The following warning is printed on the box of nilutamide and should also be heeded when taking RU58841:

"ALERT: U.S. Boxed Warning
Interstitial pneumonitis:

Interstitial pneumonitis has been reported in 2% of patients in controlled clinical trials in patients exposed to nilutamide. A small study in Japanese patients showed that 17% of patients developed interstitial pneumonitis. Reports of interstitial changes, including pulmonary fibrosis that led to hospitalization and death, have been reported rarely in postmarketing. Symptoms included exertional dyspnea, cough, chest pain, and fever. X-rays showed interstitial or alveolo-interstitial changes, and pulmonary function tests revealed a restrictive pattern with decreased diffusing capacity of lungs for carbon monoxide. Most cases occurred within the first 3 months of treatment with nilutamide, and most reversed with discontinuation of therapy. Perform a routine chest x-ray prior to initiating treatment with nilutamide. Consider baseline pulmonary function tests. Instruct patients to report any new or worsening shortness of breath that they experience while on nilutamide. If symptoms occur, immediately discontinue nilutamide until it can be determined if the symptoms are drug related."

More information of this condition and it's treatment outcomes can be found at the following link:

RU58841 Warning - BaldTruthTalk.com

A low percentage of people have experienced heart pressure/pain and/or shortness of breath after using RU58841 after as little as one week of topical usage. Although rare, if you experience heart discomfort, pressure, and/or pain, discontinue use immediately, as in rare cases it can cause...

www.baldtruthtalk.com

**If you are using RU, PLEASE read all of this**

Hey, I've been a lurker on these boards and others for a little bit but made an account to talk about something that everyone should be aware of now that people are getting aboard the RU bandwagon.

First off, I am no stranger to research chemicals myself and have experience with several (IGF-1 LR3, racetams, Ipamorelan, CJC w/o DAC, Melanotan II, etc) and as anyone should, I have done a large amount of research and accepted the risks involved when "testing" these chemicals.

RU is a slightly different animal here, and I think extra caution needs to be taken when dealing with chemicals as powerful as this. Many people don't think that it is dangerous because it's topical, or they may assume it's similar to a SERM (or the opposite, in a way) since it occupies receptors, or that it is similar to finasteride or dutasteride because it is an anti-androgen. We need to realize that this is a very powerful chemical that blocks EVERYTHING from the androgen receptors wherever it comes in contact with them.

The serum half-life is said to be around one hour. People seem to misinterpret this statement quite a bit. That doesn't mean that half the RU you take that gets into your blood stream only blocks receptors for one hour, it means that it will float around in your blood stream until it hits an androgen receptor (there are tons of these all over in your body), and after an hour, roughly half of the RU that is still floating around is finally gone. We do NOT know for sure the time RU stays bound to the androgen receptor, but it seems anecdotally around 1-2 days at least. One hour is PLENTY of time for RU to be systemic and effect other parts of the body. Aside from this, a small percentage of RU degrades into metabolites that half much longer half-lives and build up after weeks in the body.

RU58841 is said to have low systemic side effects in theory, but little solid research has truly been done on this. In animal models, it was shown to cause changes in sperm and feminization of the male offspring in females treated with this. If you search around the web, you will find MANY different instances of people reporting systemic side effects at different dosages on both vehicles, whether it be KB or PG/Ethanol. Some of the reported acute systems are libido loss, headaches, nausea, bloodshot eyes, and chest pain, among many other things.

I am writing this post because of all the effects, but primarily about the effect of RU on the heart. Although it is not well understood, DHT (and potentially other androgens) is suggested to be vital in preventing ischemia in heart tissue. Ischemia is the restriction of oxygen to tissues. A reported symptom of people using RU is periods of short breath and chest tightness. A STRONG ANDROGEN LIKE RU HAS THE POTENTIAL TO BLOCK THE ANDROGEN RECEPTORS OF THE HEART, PREVENTING IT FROM WORKING PROPERLY. Although no formal research on RU and heart has been done, it is VERY LIKELY that deprivation of your heart tissues to androgens can cause varying levels of ischemia (depending on dose, genetic predisposition, length of use, etc), MEANING THAT IT CAN POTENTIALLY CAUSE IRREVERSIBLE DAMAGE TO YOUR HEART ACUTELY OR CUMULATIVELY. You many not even be experiencing strong symptoms and be causing damage to your heart.

There is a post from another forum that was deleted (which I will post below) about a young guy (23 years old) that used only THREE DOSES of RU and ended up with heart failure. I am not saying that this case will happen to everyone, but there is a strong likelihood that long term cumulative damage could very well occur even if you are not showing strong symptoms. Drugs like finasteride and dutasteride don't completely starve the androgen receptors, they simply reduce the amount of DHT by a percentage, therefore you do not see effects like these from those drugs. RU has an entirely different potential.

I am not getting anything out of writing this post other than a serious warning. I am all for self-improvement, but I feel like the line needs to be drawn sometimes. I will look just as goofy bald as anyone else here, but the careless risks that people are taking with RU lately just to keep their hair is worthy of being a psychiatric disorder. Your hair is not worth your life or health. The truth is that we really don't know much at all about this substance whatsoever.

I don't mean to ***t on this parade here, and I am all for using substances that may not be FDA approved (if they are well researched and the safety profile looks good) but seriously guys, I really think this is something that needs to be avoided.

Hello guys I did not want to say this here and told people to do it for me but I just feel bad not doing it myself.

I have been clinically diagnosed with Heart Failure. My heart does not pump enough blood for the body anymore and I have months and maybe a year or two to live. I have been very depressed about this but little by little I have come to terms with it.

It started happening right after using RU for 3 days. I used it in total for nearly a week I dont remember exactly. It started with the chest pains for a month then with shortness of breath and fatigue then with pulmonary edema cough now I cannot breath lying down, every single symptom of heart failure I have now but it's not too severe because it's just starting. This is always progressive and treatments are very limited. I have researched tremendously about this.

Some can live +10 years but they don't have it as complicated as me.

Many of you won't believe this and maybe you think I am a rare case and that may be so but let me tell you that the way RU works is the same way nilutamide bilutamide and other drugs like that work and one of the listed side efffects is Heart failure.

The heart contains a lot of muscle and those muscles have androgen receptors, therefore it has a direct impact on it. DHT does but I think it's more pronounced with androgen receptors. As for family history nobody in my family had heart problems and they live a pretty long time.

I have less than 5 year survival beacuse of my symptoms. I do not seek help here or forums like this only top doctors and health boards.

I am just reporting this so I may be at peace with it and done what I had to do. I've told 10 people in the forums including some in propeciahelp by PM just about it and they may be start reporting it in the forums.

I also have met a couple of propecia guys in other forums like propeciahelp with heart problems but nobody as bad as me and I may have scared a couple of them with heart failure but I think they have low cortisol and minor heart problems not heart failure. Heart failure is the worst you can have and I think propecia does not cause heart failure only AR antagonists do.

I only have heart failure with no brain fog, penis issues or any other thing.

Heart failure prognosis is worst than cancer prognosis, it's pretty bad. Maybe a heart transplant can save me but that's just too much and really difficult to get, besides I will always think somebody deserves that heart transplant better than me.

I am not coming back to these forums anymore. It just brings me bad thoughts and memories I want to forget. I do not blame anybody but myself for this and my family will suffer because of my selffishness. I am only 23 but I have a mother and little sister.

I just wanted all of you to know of the dangers that this drug may pose so I can die at peace. I know it sounds harsh but it took me a long time to accept this fact that I won't live enough.

If you guys want to help me out, the only thing you can do is tell people that RU has caused heart failure in a member of this forum and has a poor prognosis to live so I can be at peace that I helped future losses in some way.

Also I want to ask you not to reveal the info of me I have put in this forum at all. Just tell people RU has caused heart failure in one guy. It is a matter of dignity and shame too.

Also please delete my account here. I do not wish to come back here anymore.

Those three things is what I can ask you to do for me as my dying wish.

Please take care all of you and hopefully we will see each other someday.
Q: Did the doctor directly attribute the heart failure to RU?
Anonym skrev:

Yes, because it's the same drug as nilutamide or bilutamide. There are many drugs that act the same way as RU so he said it may be possible.

There's no mistake. It started with RU. Alcohol never gave me such symptoms. minoxidil did gave me heart discomfort but that went away a day after stopping it months months ago.

PLEASE DO NOT QUESTION THE FACT THAT RU DID NOT CAUSE THIS BECAUSE IT DID FOR ME THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT IT. YES I AM A RARE CASE POSSIBLY BUT FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY EVALUATE THE STUFF YOURSELF BEFORE USING IT.

The capital letters are not because I am mad. I am very calm but depressed. I'm just doing it for your own safety. I cannot part this life knowing that I couldn't help or tell people.

I forgot to tell you some guys at propeciahelp do have very bad heart problems and I am sure some of them have died/committed suicide but did not report it. Some of them post or don't post but most of them have skype and chat all the time with it you just have to ask them by PM if you are suffering with problems, they were very helpful but I think I scared a couple of them and I feel guilty because of it.

Edit: Nobody please feel guilty about this. This is my own fault and my body which was very dependent on ARs. You won't know until you have abused of it. I do not blame ANYBODY at all. I only blame myself. Please keep that in mind.

Goodbye you guys.
Anonym skrev:

I don't want to sound negative guys. I appreciate your prayers and also your recommendations. I have not given up, nobody gives up with these. The symptoms are unberable to live with and also treatments is limited. Trust me I have done my research so have my doctors. I will die regardless of treatment, this is a degenerative process guys. I cannot use thymosin either because it is for a heart that is being damaged not a heart already damage.

My heart is already completely damage it doesn't work anymore. The only thing that can save is a heart transplant and even that is very difficult. I have gone to 5 doctors, ER 3 times, it's all the same thing. The screwed up part is that it didn't damage my heart muscle like most people but it damaged it in a different way that has very little treatment and research. If it did damage it the way it does from heart attacks or other things, then there are many drugs that can prolong my life but this damaged way is rare and doctors are puzzled on what to do with it just treat the symptoms and wait.

I am at peace now guys. I am calm. I know I will die. I am just worried about my family, that's all. I am also worried about you and those who are using RU.

So please in my memory let them know that RU has caused heart failure in a person and that they should be very careful, it's all I ask from you guys.

It's hard to understand but a dying man cannot come to terms with dying when he feels guilty and is bothered constantly that despite him dying he is still doing damage to people. So please please promise me that you will warn people about RU possible and rare side effect which is heart failure.

I think I have a year or so left. So during that time I want to make things right. I want to make money and leave my mother and sister with something to live with and if I have a year left I think it's enough for me to accomplish that. I am selling a couple of softwares I created before to some companies.

All I am worried about now and what worries me is how my mother will handle it and also the fact that people are still using RU without knowing this low risk. So please promise me guys that you will warn people about anti androgens like RU full side effect profile which you can get from other drugs that work exactly the same way as RU.

I have trouble breathing now even when sleeping because of fluid congestion in the lungs a very bad symptom of heart failure but what is worrying me more is that people may still suffer because I didn't warn them about RU and did not listen to me.

Take care guys. I am at peace with the fact that i am dying but just worried about people around me and people using drugs like this.

If you want to help me in some way just warn people about it, that's the best you can do to help me. I am researching hard so are my doctors because they are very sad about my situation so don't worry about the research and options, these doctors are not evil or anything, they are helpful even I received full free medical treatment till I die from the hospital I don't pay a cent for anything. So in that department I am fine, I am being taken care of.

I just want and i repeat again maybe it's annoying but it is what is bothering me I cannot part in peace knowing that I couldn't save people from RU. So please again you MUST warn people about it for my peace, it's a dying man wish. In hairlosshelp,hairsite,baldtruth, etc. All those forums please do it.

I have talked to people with heart problems like 10 of them and they haven't done it, maybe they don't believe me and are in denial.

So please it's all I ask guys, it's my dying wish. Don't go around panicking people but let them know.
Anonym skrev:

Anonym-2 skrev:

 

[Anasurimbor]

you have the same amount of chances to experience heart failure on ru as become castrated on fin.

Between dick and heart for 0.1% of risk i would always choose the latter.

 

[max_frisch]

compare:

ru58841

Studies on Humans​

Prostrakan, the company that eventually acquired the rights to the drug, ran two clinical trials with humans in the early 2000s.

The first was a phase I study in France to assess safety. Thirty men with male pattern baldness applied 5% solution on their head twice a day, for 4 weeks. The results of this study were never published. All indications are they were positive because the company then ran a phase II trial.

The phase 2 trial compared placebo to two solutions of RU58841: a 2.5% and a 5% strength. The total sample size was 120 balding men. They were treated for over 6 months.

Again, this study was never published, so we don’t have the full results. According to leaks, the results were comparable to finasteride, if not better.

After these successful trials, the company planned to go ahead with a phase III trial. For reasons that are not clear, this never happened. Some say it is because the drug is too unstable, and has a limited shelf life. Another possibility is that Prostrakan simply decided the compound would not be sufficiently profitable.

2 studies in total, 30 and 150 men, for 6 month the longest, both never really published

vs finasteride with countless studies, some going as long as 10 years

Long-term (10-year) efficacy of finasteride in 523 Japanese men with androgenetic alopecia

OA Text is an independent open-access scientific publisher showcases innovative research and ideas aimed at improving health by linking research and practice to the benefit of society.

www.oatext.com

Evaluation of efficacy and safety of finasteride 1 mg in 3177 Japanese men with androgenetic alopecia - PubMed

Before now, there has been no study of finasteride use exceeding 1 year in Japanese men with androgenetic alopecia (AGA) except the study subsequently conducted from the development phase. Since the launch of finasteride, no study in a larger population had been reported. Ethnic variation of the...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

and then again, basically you need to test every sample on purity because you clearly cant trust some gook producer on purity

 

[Germania]

Are you on fin?

Yes, since more than one year right now. I am not balding hard (NW 0,5 - maximum 1, trying to become NW 0 again) and use it as a prevention, because prevention > regrowth.
Zero side effects, only positive effects: Less oily skin, less, thinner and slower growing hair on unwanted body party (shoulders/back).

 

[Germania]

For me ru was super effective in frontal ( went from nw2 to nw0)

Did you use growth products like Minox?

 

[Anasurimbor]

Did you use growth products like Minox?

no, only ru+ dermarolling 1.5mm once a week. Regrowth took like 2-2.5 years though ( started at 27). With minox it would probably happen much faster but as long as i can i want to use the minimum amount of products for hairloss.

p.s on the day of dermarolling, do not apply ru.

 

[rateme932490]

compare:

ru58841


2 studies in total, 30 and 150 men, for 6 month the longest, both never really published

vs finasteride with countless studies, some going as long as 10 years

Long-term (10-year) efficacy of finasteride in 523 Japanese men with androgenetic alopecia

OA Text is an independent open-access scientific publisher showcases innovative research and ideas aimed at improving health by linking research and practice to the benefit of society.

www.oatext.com

Evaluation of efficacy and safety of finasteride 1 mg in 3177 Japanese men with androgenetic alopecia - PubMed

Before now, there has been no study of finasteride use exceeding 1 year in Japanese men with androgenetic alopecia (AGA) except the study subsequently conducted from the development phase. Since the launch of finasteride, no study in a larger population had been reported. Ethnic variation of the...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

and then again, basically you need to test every sample on purity because you clearly cant trust some gook producer on purity

Are you on fin?

 

[max_frisch]

Are you on fin?

no but if id see first signs of recession i wouldnt waste a second and hop on finasteride

 

[Deleted member 15698]

Keep in mind it’s easy for Org to not care about the sexual sides, because they aren’t having sex. I use RU

 

[rateme932490]

Keep in mind it’s easy for Org to not care about the sexual sides, because they aren’t having sex. I use RU

Any sides with RU? Any regrowth?

 

[rateme932490]

Thanks for the replies guys

 

[12PSLsubhuman]

and ru has no sideeffects?

the only reason why you hear more about side effects from finasteride is because finasteride is taken by millions everyday while ru is taking by a few ten thousands. and if you keep looking you will find enough reports of people who got gyno, irreversible heartproblems etc while being on ru

so you can choose between

an fda approved drugs which is proven to halt hairloss for majority of people for 10 years

a drug which no fda approval, no safety profile that gets mixed by gooks in chinese factories without any supervision



imho ru should be used in case yoi cant tolerate fin or additional to fin in case you still lose ground

Fin only works for 10 years??