Saving up for surgery and Dealing with Aging/Truthpill

[lookmaxxer998]

For most people who aren't rich, saving up for a legit surgeon takes time- maybe 3-4 years with all the overhead costs and contingency planning, etc (at least with European salaries). My question is how do people deal with:

1.) The ageing aspect. If you realize the truth at around 23 and spend let's say 3-4 years to save, you'll be around 26-27. Not only will life have passed you by bc you'll be on save mode, won't go out much, won't party much, won't go on any vacations etc. but on top of that it will be harder to access higher quality women (younger women). Is it really worth it to have your jaw broken and reattached, and implants drilled into you just to be someone's 15th choice?

2.) Once you learn the truth, you lose the naivety you once had- you'll know that women love you for the "superficial" stuff like how many mm of bone you have in a given direction. Not to mention the gaslighting society will put you through( stuff like "you're fine bro") and how vain they make you feel even if you're subpar looking. When you finally reach the breaking point and do the surgery, you will reach the "destination" but will the "destination" be the same?

 

[longjohnmong]

Is it really worth it to have your jaw broken and reattached, and implants drilled into you just to be someone's 15th choice?

yes

 

[Mrxshmallow]

For most people who aren't rich, saving up for a legit surgeon takes time- maybe 3-4 years with all the overhead costs and contingency planning, etc (at least with European salaries). My question is how do people deal with:

1.) The ageing aspect. If you realize the truth at around 23 and spend let's say 3-4 years to save, you'll be around 26-27. Not only will life have passed you by bc you'll be on save mode, won't go out much, won't party much, won't go on any vacations etc. but on top of that it will be harder to access higher quality women (younger women). Is it really worth it to have your jaw broken and reattached, and implants drilled into you just to be someone's 15th choice?

2.) Once you learn the truth, you lose the naivety you once had- you'll know that women love you for the "superficial" stuff like how many mm of bone you have in a given direction. Not to mention the gaslighting society will put you through( stuff like "you're fine bro") and how vain they make you feel even if you're subpar looking. When you finally reach the breaking point and do the surgery, you will reach the "destination" but will the "destination" be the same?

Just do it. Take action > regret.

Also you will get 30-40 year old woman in the future also, so don’t worry.

 

[lookmaxxer998]

yes

hahahahhahah fair enough

 

[lookmaxxer998]

Just do it. Take action > regret.

Also you will get 30-40 year old woman in the future also, so don’t worry.

I was talking in a hypothetical, but sure that's one way of looking at it

 

[Lefor3Laser]

For most people who aren't rich, saving up for a legit surgeon takes time- maybe 3-4 years with all the overhead costs and contingency planning, etc (at least with European salaries). My question is how do people deal with:

1.) The ageing aspect. If you realize the truth at around 23 and spend let's say 3-4 years to save, you'll be around 26-27. Not only will life have passed you by bc you'll be on save mode, won't go out much, won't party much, won't go on any vacations etc. but on top of that it will be harder to access higher quality women (younger women). Is it really worth it to have your jaw broken and reattached, and implants drilled into you just to be someone's 15th choice?

2.) Once you learn the truth, you lose the naivety you once had- you'll know that women love you for the "superficial" stuff like how many mm of bone you have in a given direction. Not to mention the gaslighting society will put you through( stuff like "you're fine bro") and how vain they make you feel even if you're subpar looking. When you finally reach the breaking point and do the surgery, you will reach the "destination" but will the "destination" be the same?

Idk, depends on wich surgeons you choose, you can get it cheaper or much more expensive depending on the surgeon.

I don't think much about the age pill even tho i am 19 but it's better to work from now and save up rather than do nothing and regret it.

 

[lookmaxxer998]

Idk, depends on wich surgeons you choose, you can get it cheaper or much more expensive depending on the surgeon.

I don't think much about the age pill even tho i am 19 but it's better to work from now and save up rather than do nothing and regret it.

Yea but 19 is a really good age to start saving. At most you’ll be 21/22 which is still in your prime and you’ll get prime women from hardmaxing. Age pill is only brutal for guys who realize stuff in early/mid 20s

 

[Acquiescence]

Yup, if you need multiple extensive surgeries it’s over

You will end up wageslaving your prime away.

You will watch yourself morph into a mentally scarred, abused dog, blackpilled pessimist who’s perpetually stuck in the past

You will need to simultaneously focus heavily on anti-agemaxxing + agefrauding to stand a chance post surgery among all the newest gen youthful Chads

You will be financially set back for life

You will be discouraged and gaslit by friends, family, peers, society, and even some members of this community at every step of the way

And you’ll have very limited time and ability to enjoy your new looks afterwards (IF the surgeries work) because not only are you rapidly approaching irrevocable oldceldom, you’re also still working full time + mentally damaged as aforementioned

And yet, despite it all, this path is STILL a superior alternative to rotting the rest of your days away, alone and LDARing forever, or becoming an oofy doofy beta bux. At least, it is to me. Because I refuse to continue living as a LTN while knowing just how good the HTN+ of this world have it, without having at least tried escaping this cursed fate via the most direct solution currently available (hardmaxxing)

And this imo is the most fundamental essence of

To truly have it good in this life, you need to be born into it (looks, health, wealth, time). If you lack even just one of these things, it’s nothing but a downward spiral of diminishing returns and hard compromises in trying to overcome the deficit

 

[Liv2109]

Yea but 19 is a really good age to start saving. At most you’ll be 21/22 which is still in your prime and you’ll get prime women from hardmaxing. Age pill is only brutal for guys who realize stuff in early/mid 20s

Yea but 19 is a really good age to start saving. At most you’ll be 21/22 which is still in your prime and you’ll get prime women from hardmaxing. Age pill is only brutal for guys who realize stuff in early/mid 20s

Why shouldn't you get prime women at 30?

You just have to make sure you don't look like an old bag + take care of your career

 

[latetothegame]

Leverage exchange rates to lessen the time spent saving.

On the destination - it's not the same, it's not a metamorphosis-like transformation, where you emerge from surgery and post-op healing a confident, charismatic head-turner. The years of being passed over and neglected in social situations have left their mark.

What it does, however, is set up your future years for less of that to happen, thus creating better life experiences. These social, life experiences, over time will improve your mental state, which in turn further the richness of the experiences you will have in life. Ouroboros style.

Imagine a life experience where you aren't consumed by self-consciousness. That's what I feel many on the forum are striving for.

 

[Snicket]

Yup, if you need multiple extensive surgeries it’s over

You will end up wageslaving your prime away.

You will watch yourself morph into a mentally scarred, abused dog, blackpilled pessimist who’s perpetually stuck in the past

You will need to simultaneously focus heavily on anti-agemaxxing + agefrauding to stand a chance post surgery among all the newest gen youthful Chads

You will be financially set back for life

You will be discouraged and gaslit by friends, family, peers, society, and even some members of this community at every step of the way

And you’ll have very limited time and ability to enjoy your new looks afterwards (IF the surgeries work) because not only are you rapidly approaching irrevocable oldceldom, you’re also still working full time + mentally damaged as aforementioned

And yet, despite it all, this path is STILL a superior alternative to rotting the rest of your days away, alone and LDARing forever, or becoming an oofy doofy beta bux. At least, it is to me. Because I refuse to continue living as a LTN while knowing just how good the HTN+ of this world have it, without having at least tried escaping this cursed fate via the most direct solution currently available (hardmaxxing)

And this imo is the most fundamental essence of

To truly have it good in this life, you need to be born into it (looks, health, wealth, time). If you lack even just one of these things, it’s nothing but a downward spiral of diminishing returns and hard compromises in trying to overcome the deficit

There’s a lot of truth in this sadly.

People in this forum also drastically overrate the extent to which surgeries can improve looks - barring the most invasive surgeries which 99%+ of surgeons outright refuse to do.

I think the key really is balance. Obtaining some degree of improvement and knowing when to walk away is important. Otherwise, you get stuck in a never ending rabbit hole of diminishing returns and compromises at the expense of your youth.

 

[Xx_gloomy_bison_xX]

No it is never late, I saw plenty 20-25 years old foids hooking up with 30-35 years old dudes because they are facially attractive and tall!

You either ascend and become attractive enough to be noticed by women or you simply become an ugly non-existent sub-5 that women will reject because "no spark" or "natural connection"

I mean if you chose to work on your personality instead of your surgeries you may have a chance to wife up a left-over roastie with 100+ body count. Your wife's chad ex situationship will know more about your wife's body than you do and maybe you can learn some tips about what your well-used wife likes in bed from them

 

[Xx_gloomy_bison_xX]

There’s a lot of truth in this sadly.

People in this forum also drastically overrate the extent to which surgeries can improve looks - barring the most invasive surgeries which 99%+ of surgeons outright refuse to do.

I think the key really is balance. Obtaining some degree of improvement and knowing when to walk away is important. Otherwise, you get stuck in a never ending rabbit hole of diminishing returns and compromises at the expense of your youth.

nobody cares about those two digit IQ surgeons who refuse to operate. Surgeries can drastically change the way you look if performed by someone who understand aesthetics and who is willing to take risks. If he goes to "board certified" idiots, doctors will probably just go with fillers because they are far too incompetent to perform osteotomies and don't want to risk botches.... Muh human body is too complex muh we don't know how tissue will react muh this and that....They only come up with excuses...Instead OP should save and go with giants to Turkey where he can even get Lefort 3

 

[Xx_gloomy_bison_xX]

For most people who aren't rich, saving up for a legit surgeon takes time- maybe 3-4 years with all the overhead costs and contingency planning, etc (at least with European salaries). My question is how do people deal with:

1.) The ageing aspect. If you realize the truth at around 23 and spend let's say 3-4 years to save, you'll be around 26-27. Not only will life have passed you by bc you'll be on save mode, won't go out much, won't party much, won't go on any vacations etc. but on top of that it will be harder to access higher quality women (younger women). Is it really worth it to have your jaw broken and reattached, and implants drilled into you just to be someone's 15th choice?

2.) Once you learn the truth, you lose the naivety you once had- you'll know that women love you for the "superficial" stuff like how many mm of bone you have in a given direction. Not to mention the gaslighting society will put you through( stuff like "you're fine bro") and how vain they make you feel even if you're subpar looking. When you finally reach the breaking point and do the surgery, you will reach the "destination" but will the "destination" be the same?

no they like you for your "personality" sorry I meant "confidence"

 

[Xx_gloomy_bison_xX]

Yup, if you need multiple extensive surgeries it’s over

You will end up wageslaving your prime away.

You will watch yourself morph into a mentally scarred, abused dog, blackpilled pessimist who’s perpetually stuck in the past

You will need to simultaneously focus heavily on anti-agemaxxing + agefrauding to stand a chance post surgery among all the newest gen youthful Chads

You will be financially set back for life

You will be discouraged and gaslit by friends, family, peers, society, and even some members of this community at every step of the way

And you’ll have very limited time and ability to enjoy your new looks afterwards (IF the surgeries work) because not only are you rapidly approaching irrevocable oldceldom, you’re also still working full time + mentally damaged as aforementioned

And yet, despite it all, this path is STILL a superior alternative to rotting the rest of your days away, alone and LDARing forever, or becoming an oofy doofy beta bux. At least, it is to me. Because I refuse to continue living as a LTN while knowing just how good the HTN+ of this world have it, without having at least tried escaping this cursed fate via the most direct solution currently available (hardmaxxing)

And this imo is the most fundamental essence of

To truly have it good in this life, you need to be born into it (looks, health, wealth, time). If you lack even just one of these things, it’s nothing but a downward spiral of diminishing returns and hard compromises in trying to overcome the deficit

yes if you are ugly or short it is almost always over for you but he can always get surgeries to ascend. Nature didn't want him to enjoy sex and attention, these are privileges reserved only for chads. He is genetically not meant to be desirable and he is not supposed to breed Stacies.

However, there are tons of people getting surgeries (Lefort, Canthoplasty. Limb Lengthening etc...) and seeing incredible results. It is worth trying and dying in this battle than just accepting ultimate defeat. Before LDAR or Rope, one must exhaust all options

 

[Foreverbrad]

Yup, if you need multiple extensive surgeries it’s over

You will end up wageslaving your prime away.

You will watch yourself morph into a mentally scarred, abused dog, blackpilled pessimist who’s perpetually stuck in the past

You will need to simultaneously focus heavily on anti-agemaxxing + agefrauding to stand a chance post surgery among all the newest gen youthful Chads

You will be financially set back for life

You will be discouraged and gaslit by friends, family, peers, society, and even some members of this community at every step of the way

And you’ll have very limited time and ability to enjoy your new looks afterwards (IF the surgeries work) because not only are you rapidly approaching irrevocable oldceldom, you’re also still working full time + mentally damaged as aforementioned

And yet, despite it all, this path is STILL a superior alternative to rotting the rest of your days away, alone and LDARing forever, or becoming an oofy doofy beta bux. At least, it is to me. Because I refuse to continue living as a LTN while knowing just how good the HTN+ of this world have it, without having at least tried escaping this cursed fate via the most direct solution currently available (hardmaxxing)

And this imo is the most fundamental essence of

To truly have it good in this life, you need to be born into it (looks, health, wealth, time). If you lack even just one of these things, it’s nothing but a downward spiral of diminishing returns and hard compromises in trying to overcome the deficit

Over for me getting Trimax at 32. It’s exactly as you’ve described.

£30k doesn’t do much toward early retirement anyway, I figure it’s worth the gamble. If not, I’ll just wageslave some more and move to phillipines where there is no oldcel issue - unless they’ve ruined that too by then.

 

[Snicket]

nobody cares about those two digit IQ surgeons who refuse to operate. Surgeries can drastically change the way you look if performed by someone who understand aesthetics and who is willing to take risks. If he goes to "board certified" idiots, doctors will probably just go with fillers because they are far too incompetent to perform osteotomies and don't want to risk botches.... Muh human body is too complex muh we don't know how tissue will react muh this and that....They only come up with excuses...Instead OP should save and go with giants to Turkey where he can even get Lefort 3

LF2/3 are no silver bullet if you actually look at befores and afters. I think if you understood what the procedure actually entailed, you’d be slightly more reticent about it. Giants does implants - he is not a surgeon.

 

[Xx_gloomy_bison_xX]

LF2/3 are no silver bullet if you actually look at befores and afters. I think if you understood what the procedure actually entailed, you’d be slightly more reticent about it. Giants does implants - he is not a surgeon.

Yes and No. Yes he is not the one cutting your face and No he does planning of the surgeries not the surgeons

 

[Snicket]

Yes and No. Yes he is not the one cutting your face and No he does planning of the surgeries not the surgeons

I know he works in partnership with Celal in Turkey but surely the surgeon actually plans and executes the osteotomy?

 

[Xx_gloomy_bison_xX]

I know he works in partnership with Celal in Turkey but surely the surgeon actually plans and executes the osteotomy?

Go to Celal and Buraks IG pages, Giants literally post files of planning on the wall of surgery room to showcase how it will be done. Sure he might be getting opinions but he is the one with decent understanding of aesthetic. Surgeons are there to obey and do the grunt work

 

[Snicket]

Go to Celal and Buraks IG pages, Giants literally post files of planning on the wall of surgery room to showcase how it will be done. Sure he might be getting opinions but he is the one with decent understanding of aesthetic.

The plans just feature Giant’s implants. You can’t conclude that Giant actually plans the surgeries from them. Do we have any LF2 before and afters from Celal unblurred?

Surgeons are there to obey and do the grunt work

This isn’t true. Surgeons usually decide on the cut and movements themselves.

 

[ScramFranklin]

I got double jaw surgery in my 30’s and I’m very glad I did. Increased my attractiveness a lot. Would it have been better if I did it at age 20? Sure, but i didn’t, so no point in worrying about it

It’s like retirement. Would I rather have 5 mil in today’s dollars at 55 rather than 65? Yes, and to get there I would have needed to invest more a decade ago. But that time has passed. So I’m investing now to have a nice retirement when I’m 65, I’m not going to just give up

 

[lookmaxxer998]

Yup, if you need multiple extensive surgeries it’s over

You will end up wageslaving your prime away.

You will watch yourself morph into a mentally scarred, abused dog, blackpilled pessimist who’s perpetually stuck in the past

You will need to simultaneously focus heavily on anti-agemaxxing + agefrauding to stand a chance post surgery among all the newest gen youthful Chads

You will be financially set back for life

You will be discouraged and gaslit by friends, family, peers, society, and even some members of this community at every step of the way

And you’ll have very limited time and ability to enjoy your new looks afterwards (IF the surgeries work) because not only are you rapidly approaching irrevocable oldceldom, you’re also still working full time + mentally damaged as aforementioned

And yet, despite it all, this path is STILL a superior alternative to rotting the rest of your days away, alone and LDARing forever, or becoming an oofy doofy beta bux. At least, it is to me. Because I refuse to continue living as a LTN while knowing just how good the HTN+ of this world have it, without having at least tried escaping this cursed fate via the most direct solution currently available (hardmaxxing)

And this imo is the most fundamental essence of

To truly have it good in this life, you need to be born into it (looks, health, wealth, time). If you lack even just one of these things, it’s nothing but a downward spiral of diminishing returns and hard compromises in trying to overcome the deficit

Extremely based and real take- I can sense you've learned about the BP outside of just this forum. Question for you- let's say that you could get to chad level with hardmaxing and you had the option to settle down with a stacy, would you do it? Would you pass down your genes anyway and hope that your stacy partner's genes override yours?

 

[lookmaxxer998]

nobody cares about those two digit IQ surgeons who refuse to operate. Surgeries can drastically change the way you look if performed by someone who understand aesthetics and who is willing to take risks. If he goes to "board certified" idiots, doctors will probably just go with fillers because they are far too incompetent to perform osteotomies and don't want to risk botches.... Muh human body is too complex muh we don't know how tissue will react muh this and that....They only come up with excuses...Instead OP should save and go with giants to Turkey where he can even get Lefort 3

Just understand that there is more than what meets the eye. They also have things go wrong but it's often not advertised. While I don't like fillers either, most surgeons in Italy that this forum praises, chose to do implants over high cut leforts bc they know that unless it's severe, it's a dumb idea to do those things.

 

[lookmaxxer998]

Leverage exchange rates to lessen the time spent saving.

On the destination - it's not the same, it's not a metamorphosis-like transformation, where you emerge from surgery and post-op healing a confident, charismatic head-turner. The years of being passed over and neglected in social situations have left their mark.

What it does, however, is set up your future years for less of that to happen, thus creating better life experiences. These social, life experiences, over time will improve your mental state, which in turn further the richness of the experiences you will have in life. Ouroboros style.

Imagine a life experience where you aren't consumed by self-consciousness. That's what I feel many on the forum are striving for.

Life has an element of causality-past events influence future and current behaviour. One way to think is to not be overly philosophical and just "get on with life" and the other is to ponder on what life could have been. Perhaps I do too much of the latter.

If A is a natural-born chad, B is a transformed HTN through surgery and C is a sub 5, I agree A>B>C. But often, B>C is emphasized while A>B is forgotten, likely bc considering A>B is uncomfortable and interferes with the human coping mechanism.

 

[Acquiescence]

Extremely based and real take- I can sense you've learned about the BP outside of just this forum. Question for you- let's say that you could get to chad level with hardmaxing and you had the option to settle down with a stacy, would you do it? Would you pass down your genes anyway and hope that your stacy partner's genes override yours?

LTR with Stacy? Sure, if there was mutual genuine attraction. I’d just make it a point to constantly remind myself that it could end at any time for any reason, and to not get too invested

Kids? Hard no

 

[lookmaxxer998]

LTR with Stacy? Sure, if there was mutual genuine attraction. I’d just make it a point to constantly remind myself that it could end at any time for any reason, and to not get too invested

Kids? Hard no

How would you explain to her that you don't want kids though? Like for example if someone was very unattractive (this isn't my case tbh), imagine someone like mitten squad. There is no way he could show a picture of himself and not have her disgusted. Would you raise another guy's child? Feels a bit beta tbh

 

[Acquiescence]

How would you explain to her that you don't want kids though? Like for example if someone was very unattractive (this isn't my case tbh), imagine someone like mitten squad. There is no way he could show a picture of himself and not have her disgusted. Would you raise another guy's child? Feels a bit beta tbh

I wouldn’t explain myself. And no I would never raise anyone else’s kids either

 

[latetothegame]

Life has an element of causality-past events influence future and current behaviour. One way to think is to not be overly philosophical and just "get on with life" and the other is to ponder on what life could have been. Perhaps I do too much of the latter.

If A is a natural-born chad, B is a transformed HTN through surgery and C is a sub 5, I agree A>B>C. But often, B>C is emphasized while A>B is forgotten, likely bc considering A>B is uncomfortable and interferes with the human coping mechanism.

Regarding the A>B vs B>C considerations, I guess another thing to consider would be:

Are there diminishing returns?
Is the line graph of 'life fulfillment/richness of experience vs. 0-10 rating' a logarithmic curve, or a straight one, or somewhere in between? Maybe this determination has already been done but I haven't seen that meta-analysis, I guess.

But even so, perhaps this kind of rumination is just pointless - how far can one 'climb the slope of that line', etc. etc.

 

[lookmaxxer998]

Regarding the A>B vs B>C considerations, I guess another thing to consider would be:

Are there diminishing returns?
Is the line graph of 'life fulfillment/richness of experience vs. 0-10 rating' a logarithmic curve, or a straight one, or somewhere in between? Maybe this determination has already been done but I haven't seen that meta-analysis, I guess.

But even so, perhaps this kind of rumination is just pointless - how far can one 'climb the slope of that line', etc. etc.

The importance of looks is exponential. I think this was shown in the UChicago and MIT study. The top percent of men get disproportionately more likes than even the "good looking" men. It's one thing to succeed in dating but another to get modelling contracts, be an untalented actor but get hired anyway, have women pay for (like they did for Alain Delon), and have women overlook your blatantly shitty behaviour. The question is, can one reach A from B using surgery? The answer is mostly not. It's hard to change a face like people do in morphs: the soft tissue, nerves, etc. need to comply with their new state and there is only so much you can move things. Is it really worth risking something good for something great? Honestly, maybe not. Doing Excess surgeries can take you from B back to C rather than from B to A.

 

[latetothegame]

The importance of looks is exponential. I think this was shown in the UChicago and MIT study. The top percent of men get disproportionately more likes than even the "good looking" men. It's one thing to succeed in dating but another to get modelling contracts, be an untalented actor but get hired anyway, have women pay for (like they did for Alain Delon), and have women overlook your blatantly shitty behaviour. The question is, can one reach A from B using surgery? The answer is mostly not. It's hard to change a face like people do in morphs: the soft tissue, nerves, etc. need to comply with their new state and there is only so much you can move things. Is it really worth risking something good for something great? Honestly, maybe not. Doing Excess surgeries can take you from B back to C rather than from B to A.

https://home.uchicago.edu/~hortacsu/onlinedating.pdf

This, right? Who needs the forum's rhetoric when you can just read this, jesus. Thanks for pointing me to it.

 

[lookmaxxer998]

https://home.uchicago.edu/~hortacsu/onlinedating.pdf

This, right? Who needs the forum's rhetoric when you can just read this, jesus. Thanks for pointing me to it.

Yeah, it mentions the “superstar effect” which is only present for men not women (I think). This is also the study the discussed how much height and ethnicity “cost” you. There are tables at the end of the study.